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2009 Toyota Camry



  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,679
    kiawah is right. Take it to the dealer and have them do the two Technical Service Bulletins. One is for hesitation upon acceleration, the other for the vibration around 40 mph. TSB0068-08 and TSB0069-08. They are very simple, just reprograms the computer.
  • exlerexler Posts: 129
    I believe the Technical Service Bulletin that addresses this issue is TSB 0069-08--also check out TSB-0068- 08. Have the dealer look both up. I was hoping Toyota had this solved on newly built 09's. Maybe your vehicle is an earlier built 09 as mentioned by kiawah. I am going to have my 08--4 cylinder done shortly as I get this "lugging" or "shudder" around 30-45 mph. Keep us posted on what you find out and if the problem is corrected
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    I bought my 09 LE V6 dirt cheap almost a year ago and love it except for the cheap looking plastic wheel covers which I knew I would replace when the OEM Bridgetone Turanza EL400-02 215/60R16 UTOG rated 260AA 94V wore out at around 20K miles.

    After 8000 miles, I could no longer take looking at the el cheapo hubcaps so I ordered up a set of 17" Motegi US7 17x7 Brushed Aluminum Hyper Black wheels which are on backorder and will arrive in three or four weeks. I will replace tires with 215/55R17 - the standard size for the Camry SE. I have tentatively boiled my choices to the Bridgestone Serenity UTOG 440 A AA 94 V which meets OEM specs and carries a 50,000 mile warranty OR the Michelin Primacy MXV4 UTOG 620 A AA 94H which does not meet the OEM V rated spec but carries a 60,000 mile warranty. Both tires cost about $700 for a set of four, installed with TPMS, computer balance, & tax. [The OEM Michelin MXV4 Energy UTOG 440 A AA 94V is out because they cost $1000 for a set of four and get poor reviews on Internet postings]. tested both tires on a BMW and rated the Primacy slightly higher than the Serenity. Any advice or opinions would be appreciated before I just “flip a coin” to make my choice.

    Also, I find it interesting that there appear to be no class action lawsuits about the pathetic tire wear on Camry or Lexus ES350 original equipment tires. My dealer’s service manager told me that the OEM Turanzas typically wear out in 20 to 25K miles – or the fronts wear out in 15K miles if not rotated. My wife’s 2002 ES300 ran through her original equipment tires in 18K miles even after being rotated by the dealer at each 5000 mile checkup. She replaced them with Goodyear Assurance T rated 80,000 mile warranty and they are about 60% worn after 40K miles.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Class Action Lawsuit. On what grounds? Different tires have different wear ability and there are NOT defective and are safe. So again what grounds for a lawsuit except some people are sue happy and go out of their way to screw someone else at the drop of a hat. Next time do a better job of investigating what car you buy instead of trying to make someone else pay for your mistakes.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    To dmathews3 about your post #772:

    I knew the tires would only last 20,000 miles or so when I bought the car. My last paragraph was merely a gratuitous comment. I am replacing the tires and wheels early on a whim because I want a set of 17 inch good looking wheels. The 16 inch tires that came standard on my car still have 2/3 the tread left and I plan to sell them on ebay or craigslist. I was not suggesting anyone pay a lawyer $1000 to recover a perceived $300 financial "loss." If Toyota put 40,000 mile Michelins on all Camrys, they'd have to raise the sticker price accordingly.

    No more comments from the peanut gallery please on my post #771 unless they are about actual experience/advice regarding the selection of new tires.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Right on. I did take interest in the part about your wife's tires. I have the Goodyear Assurance Triple treads on my car and they are supposed to last 80K and you said at 40K they were about 60% gone. As I figure if they are good for 80 than in real life I'll get about 60 - 65K out of them which it looks like your wife will also get. To me 65K is pretty good for a set of tires and I'll be happy.
  • I drive mostly highway from PA to NYC. Most important to me is quiet on the road. Second, I don't need smokin' acceleration, and I want good mileage.
    Does the 6 really get as good mileage as the 4 on the interstate?
    Is the 6 quieter and smoother than the 4?
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    Get the V6. PERIOD. Its Lexus drive train is smooth as silk and wins out in highway gas mileage. I am phobic about my cars and have an 09 LE V6. Prior experience with Toyota V6 engines is as follows: 1997 Camry V6 (first year they put the Lexus engine in the Camry), 1999 Solara SLE V6, 2001 Avalon V6, wife’s 2002 Lexus ES300 V6. All got/get great gas mileage on the highway and NONE have ever had any warranty or non warranty repairs other than brake pads. All get/got 4-5K 5W30 oil changes. I sold my Avalon to a friend at 88K miles and he now has 190,000 miles on it and has done nothing but normal maintenance and 2 sets of tires and gets 30 mpg highway.

    My V6 gets 36 mpg on the highway on 700 mile round trips from Kansas City to Cedar Rapids Iowa on premium fuel averaging 70 mph. My wife’s ES300 gets 30 mpg on the same round trip. In 50/50 city highway driving overall, I get 30 mpg. In tests by Consumer Reports on regular fuel, 50/50 city highway they got 24mpg with the I4 and 23 with the V6. In that same test, the V-6 got better highway mileage even with regular gas. The reason to use mid range or premium gas in the V6 is that the Camry has a de-tuned Lexus engine with an electronic spark advance feature that detects higher octane gas and advances the timing accordingly to get more power and about 10% better gas mileage. Camry V6 is 268 Horsepower; Lexus is 272. The reason is the difference is that the fuel recommendation on the Lexus is Premium.

    Only about 10-15% of Camry’s have the V6 with six speed transmission. The I4 gets a couple miles better to the gallon in stop and go city driving but the V6 gets at least 5 more mpg on the highway. The I4 is horrifically underpowered and suffers from all kinds of transmission and vibration problems because the five speed transmission can barely handle theEPA gas mileage and 50 state emission control requirements. Just scroll to the beginning of this forum and notice all the problems with TSB’s and transmission issues. The 2007 & 2008 V6 had transmission problems as well but all the TSB fixes were incorporated beginning with the 2009 model year.

    Buy a 2010 if you can get a decent deal on it since they now come standard with traction and stability control. If you get a 2009, I suggest you get one with the traction and stability control option since living on the east coast, you have to deal with snow and ice. When you do the upgrade to the V6 (not sure if you want LE,SE with tight suspension and 17” wheels, or XLE trim) and pay the extra $2,300 you not only get the extra 100 horsepower and the smooth as glass Lexus Engine, you also get a Lexus drive train.

    According to the KBB website, the comparable invoice prices are as follows:
    Camry 2010 LE I4 is $20,540 – 16”steel wheels & plastic hub caps; 215/60 tires.
    Camry 2010 LE V6 is $22,825 – 16” steel wheels & plastic hub caps; 215/60 tires.
    Camry 2010 SE V6 is $23,974 – 17” alloy wheels 215/55 tires; tighter suspension
    Camry 2010 XLE is $ 26,858 – 16” alloy wheels 215/60 tires; leather trim; JBL sound, etc.
    Lexus 2009 ES3350 is $31599 - 17” alloy 215/55 wheels & cloth seats (2010 Lexus is not out yet)

    I paid $22,066 for my 09 LE in April of 08 after a $500 cash back incentive. Performance is flawless. According to kbb, the invoice price was $22,513 and the car does not have traction control. Only trip back to the dealer was for 6 month oil change that cost all of $35 including tax to fill the 6.4 quart crankcase. For the price, the car is perfection – except for the cheap looking OEM hubcaps which I am about to replace with aftermarket 17 inch wheels and tires as noted a prior post.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    When I bought my car, the ignorant sales person made a point of telling me the engine comes "already broken in" and you can floor it from day 1. I then referred the moron to page 118 of the 480 page owner's manual (more aptly described as the owner's book) which states as follows:

    For the first 994 miles (1600 km):
    *Do not drive at extremely high speeds
    *Avoid sudden acceleration
    *Do not drive continuously in low gears
    *Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods

    I always follow these instructions and believe that is one reason I get such good gas mileage.

    As to the EPA estimates, when the '07 first came out it was rated 31. Then in 2008, the EPA lowered all the numbers - for the camry v6, highway went from 31 down to 28 for the 2009 model year. _source=yahoo&utm_medium=ssp&utm_campaign=yssp_art

    Which states as follows:
    1 These new estimates are about 1-3 gallons per mile less (city and highway) than the old figures. The new way of calculating mileage takes into account three factors: faster speeds and acceleration, the use of air conditioners, the operation of a vehicle in cold temperature.
    2 The EPA still advises that your personal driving style effects mileage. So does the condition of your vehicle.
    3 Certain consumer groups have praised the decision, feeling that it more accurately represents real world mileage of inefficient drivers.

    Virtually every Toyota or Lexus vehicle we've owned since 1991 has exceeded the EPA highway mileage posted on the sticker by at least 10%.

    The 2009 4cyl says EPA 31 highway vs 28 for the V6. This is a laboratory test that does not take into account the fact that the underpowered 4 cyl in the real world has to practically put the "pedal to the metal" to make it up a steep hill or battle a strong headwind.

    My best friend's inlaws have a 2003 Avalon V6 and a 2008 Camry I4. They are retired and do a lot of highway driving. They told me their Avalon gets better mileage on the highway than the Camry. They are over 75 years old and drive fairly low speeds on the highway and claim to get close to 40 mpg highway with their V6.

    My neighbor has a 2007 Camry CE I4 company car that is driven almost exclusively on the highway and has 60,000 miles on it. He says he (only) gets around 30 mpg driving 70-75 on the highway.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    I have seen these comments on various internet sites, but here is one I just went to after a Yahoo search of camry v6 gas mileage. This guy gets 34 mpg.

    Camry SE v6 is amazing
    by Natasha
    from Ogden, Utah
    on 12/20/2008
    Overall 5 stars
    Appearance 4 stars
    Comfort 4 stars
    Performance 5 stars
    Value 5 stars

    Pros:I've had ALMOST 34 MPG's before in my V6. It's amazing I drive 100+ miles a day ConsThe seats are a bit stiff on longer rides but that is expected. Nothing to complain about. I bought this car in February of 08, and unfortunately I drive it a lot, it already has 20,000+ miles on it but still rides like I just drove it off the lot. I have gotten 33+ mpg's a few times on this v6 engine. It's amazing. I usually get however 29-31 mpg's in it, so still not bad. It did better than my 2002 Honda Accord that was a 4 cylinder! The stereo sounds great and the newer model (especially the SE) has a great sexy look to it. I LOVE the front end of the car and the back end looks great too. The hp in the v6 is definitely nice. It definitely can get up and go when you need it to without it buckling down. I drove a Ford Fusion before and it was a nice car but I'm glad I got the Camry instead, because just from experience with Toyota's I KNOW it will last me forever. One last point is the Camry does spectacular in the snow
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,679
    I would disagree with the comment about the I-4 being " is horrifically underpowered and suffers from all kinds of transmission and vibration problems because the five speed transmission can barely handle theEPA gas mileage and 50 state emission control requirements. Just scroll to the beginning of this forum and notice all the problems with TSB’s and transmission issues".

    First, the Camry I-4 had a few issues that have been corrected with two TSBs that just involve the computer being reprogrammed (takes about a half hour.) Second, the Camry I-4 is not the slowest midsized car. Don't let the horsepower rating fool you, you have to look at torque also, and the Camry has more useable torque than many others in it's class. You can see 0-60 numbers on the net if you want, and you'll be surprised. Finally, the 2010 Camry being shipped to dealers right now has a NEW 2.5 liter engine and 6 speed auto or 6 speed manual transmission that is quicker and more fuel efficient than the 2007-2009 Camry.

    I'm not saying the V-6 is bad (it is having an issue with an oil leak right now that Toyota has not yet released a TSB for). It is very fast and efficient, but the four is not nearly as bad IMHO and experience that you make it out to be. Consider the new 2010 I-4 AND the V-6, and let us know what you decide.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    Even if the 2010 Camry has the Venza I4 4-Cyl, 2.7 L 182 HP engine, (kbb does not have the updated stats yet), the difference is still the same. The I4 is centainly adequate but guntherops' prioritis are smooth quiet ride and good fuel economy - thus I stand by my advice that the V6 fits HIS top priorities which are the same as mine.

    If his top priorities were exterior styling, nice looking interior, and handling, I would say get an Accord if he could can handle the road noise. If his priorities were American brand and styling, I would say go with the new 3.5 Liter V6 263 Horsepower 2010 Ford Taurus SE with an invoice price of $23,983,17" painted aluminum wheels and the same 28mpg EPA highway rating as the Camry SEV6.

    If his top priorities were image, smooth poweful ride, and luxurious interior, I'd say get a Lexus ES350.

    If his top priorities were flashy styling, once a year 15,000 mile (synthetic) oil changes and lots of power, I would say get a 300 horsepower BMW Turbo Diesel 335d like my brother drives - and not to worry (at least if you live in Dallas, Texas); BMW gives you a free loaner car when you take it in for its bi-weekly warranty
    claim service !!!!
  • bjosephsbjosephs Posts: 13
    I brought the car into the dealer Saturday morning and had the TSB performed. The problem has disappeared and the car drives great. Thanks to all who responded. Just a note- the service writers didn't appreciate the fact that I had the TSB numbers and facts when I arrived at the service desk. However the mechanic who test drove the car with me was glad to see customers well informed about their cars.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,679
    Great to hear you had the TSBs done and you're happy with the car. I guess some service writers are different than others. When I had mine done last summer, they were more than fine that I had the info.
  • exlerexler Posts: 129
    Did they do both TSB's or just the 0069-08 that had to do with the lugging or shudder problem? Thanks.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    It appears the issue applies only to 05 & 06 Avalons plus 07 Camrys. TSB EG0380-06 states that a production run change was effective October 2006 as copied and pasted in relevant part as follows: :

    Models: ’05 – ’06 Avalon & ’07 Camry (V6)
    Technical Service BULLETIN June 19, 2006 TSB REVISION NOTICE:
    October 9, 2006: Production Change Information has been added. The Applicable
    Warranty has been updated in the Warranty Information table.
    Previous versions of this TSB should be discarded.
    Some 2GR–FE engines may display evidence of a small oil leak, located on the rear side
    of Bank 1. The source has been identified as unused side and end bolt holes in the right hand (Bank 1) cam housing. A repair procedure has been developed to correct
    this condition.
    �� 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon vehicles.
    �� 2007 model year Camry vehicles equipped with the V6 engine.
    TMMK 4T1BK36B#6U134505
    TMMK, Line 1 4T1BK46K#7U003571
    TMMK, Line 2 4T1BK46K#7U501527
    I did find several instances in Internet Forums about Camrys leaking oil but they all involve the 2007 model year. Some Australian built Avalons had a more serious problem that required a more complex fix.
  • bjosephsbjosephs Posts: 13
    They just did the shudder problem, she doesn't have the hesitation problem in her camry. It took about 45 minutes to complete the flashing.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Most, the MAJORITY, of TSBs only "apply" under specific customer complaints. If the customer doesn't complain then the problem doesn't exist. If the customer becomes aware of a TSB they will undoubtedly become more conscious, easier to notice, and may even "invent" complaints.

    Best to keep the customer in the dark.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,749
    My V6 gets 36 mpg on the highway

    I had the previous gen Camry V6. It certainly was a smooth drivetrain and hard to tell from a V8. Even with premium though, I don't think it quite meets the Lexus specs. However, I never got better than 27 or so on the Interstate at 70-75. In town it got 16-17. Premium runs at least 20 cents a gallon more than regular so you want to do the math before you automatically use it since its not required on Camry V6, only Lexus.

    I've got a 4 cyl current gen Camry right now. I've found it quite smooth and comfortable on the highway and in town. No harshness, and only loud on very steep hill climbing. It gets 21 or so in town and around 33 on the Interstate at 70-75.

    My take is the V6 gives you an almost luxury car feel, but the I4 is more than adequate for most needs. So it boils down to a tradeoff of drivetrain luxury versus a couple of grand more in price out the door. However, if you are going to load up a V6 XLE, you should also look at a Lexus 350 deal right now as well. The Lexus seating is nicer and you get a bunch of the difference in price back at trade in.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Just so that you're aware of the differentiation. Tires are the one feature of any car from any manufacturer that is not covered by the various manufacturers' warranties. The tires are the sole responsibility of the tire maker.

    This is why at the time of delivery you get a separate tire warranty from Firestone/Bridgestone or Goodyear or Michelin. Tires have nothing to do with Honda or Toyota or GM or Ford or any maker.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    For those shopping it's worthwhile to make sure to drive one of the remaining '09s and then one of the new '10s back to back.

    The new 2AR 2.5L engine in the 2010 is far far different than the 2AZ 2.4L engine in the 2009. It's more powerful and more fuel efficient and quieter all at the same time. This is the final engine to be converted from 1990's technology, the 'Z-family' of engines, to the new dual VVTi technology of this decade in the R-family of engines. The changeover for the entire product lineup is complete now.

    The next step should be the inclusion of Valvematic technology beginning soon in the smaller autos. This should bring another boost in both power and fuel economy.

    Also VSC comes standard in the 2010s.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,749
    Tires have nothing to do with Honda or Toyota or GM or Ford or any maker.

    Except those companies pick some of the cheapo pathetic OEM tires they put on the vehicles in the first place. I don't know about you, but I'd sure rather pay a couple hundred more on a $20K+ car and get decent quality tires.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    First thing I do when buying a new car is before I ever take it home I head to my local Discount Tire store and they always give me at least 1/2 of what the OEM tires are worth and they have good deals on almost any tire you would desire. Plus they give free repairs, rotation and balances for as long as you own the car with the tires plus I pay a little extra and get their warranty which means they replace the tires if they can't be safely repaired. On my wifes last CAddy I hit a chuck hole that put a big bubble on the sidewall and they replaced it with a new $200 tire even though the tires were only a week old. Spend all that money on a new car may as well be happy and it will be a whole lot cheaper than the dealer/stealer with do it for.
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    Let this be a message to others. I am paying now $1500 to replace tires and wheels which is more than it would have cost me to just buy a Camry SE V6 with Michelin tires in the first place. I just renewed my insurance and paid my premium 3 weeks before it is due. When I talked to my insurance agent about this issue because I wanted to insure the new wheels, it turns out he has an 08 Camry SE V6 and he told me he searched the lot for one with Michelin tires but acted like he did not know how the difference. Bottom Line: If you buy a Camry V6 LE, plan on spending any savings on a great deal on your next set of tires if it comes with Bridgestone Turanza tires.

    Side note: He said he also uses pemium or mid range gas to get better gas mileage - as do I - which more than pays for itself in better gas mileage than regular.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    My 2005 SE came with Bridgestone EL400s. I just replaced them at 30,000 miles because one blew (1" crack in the casing) after hitting something in the street. They had at most a few thousand miles left on them.

    I bought Kumho Ecsta LX Platinums. Neither the cheapest nor most expensive but with decent Tire Rack reviews, a 600 treadwear rating (compared to 260 for the EL400s), and a $50 AMEX gift card rebate from Tire Rack. So far so good with about 300 miles on them.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    I just got a set of Kumho Ecsta LX Platinums for my 2005 SE V6. I got 30K miles out of the Turanzas. Paid $580 installed at Tire Rack (which is 7 miles away). I wasn't willing to spend the extra bucks for the Michelins or Yokos. The Kumhos have a UTOG 600 rating.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    I had the previous gen Camry V6. ... Even with premium though, I don't think it quite meets the Lexus specs. However, I never got better than 27 or so on the Interstate at 70-75. In town it got 16-17.

    I have the 3.3L V6 in my 2005 SE. Last summer I got 28.5 mpg on a 2600 mile trip by watching my speed. On the same trip two years earlier, I got 27.5 but I was driving slightly faster on average.

    If you keep it at 72 or below, you can get decent mileage. I have also experimented with premium vs regular and have concluded there there is no extra mileage from premium.

    I believe either 1) Toyota tweaks the Lexus ES V6 a little to give it a couple more hp than the Camry V6 and that tweak requires premium or 2) premium gives it a couple more hp but they have to require premium to claim the increase hp. Of course, I could be wrong on both counts. :P
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,758
    Side note: He said he also uses pemium or mid range gas to get better gas mileage - as do I - which more than pays for itself in better gas mileage than regular.

    Fyi, I have done extensive (several thousand miles) experiments with regular vs premium on the 3.3L liter engine in both a Camry SE and a Highlander and have never gotten any significant difference in mileage.
  • exlerexler Posts: 129
    Is the 2010 Camry being retailed currently?
  • paul3637paul3637 Posts: 45
    Yes in Kansas City. I stopped by Molle Toyota a few days ago and none were in and they told me a shipment would be arriving in a couple of days. As of today the 2010's in stock is on their website at:

    They are giving away the 2009' LE 4cyls for $18,888.. They are overstocked and have it right on their showroom floor with big yellow price tag letters on the windshield of the floor model. That price is also the first thing you see when visit their website which lists the 2009 model year inventory as well.
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