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Acura RL

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Comments

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 676
    I'm glad it doesn't look like a TL. no specs on power though... AWD and SH with a 5 series size mean the power has to be genuinely good to do any good.

    There's a hint of maxima in it that I don't like.. but not bad, i like the tightness overall. not impressed with the choice of colors for the pictures though... ugh
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    this link says is a 300hp 3.5L V6 with a 5-speed paddle shift.

    http://hondanews.com/CatID3046?mid=2004040738738&mime=asc&amp- ;archives=t
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Specs are available at Hondanews.com along with more images. Here are a few highlights:

    300 hp
    3.5 V6
    5 speed paddle-style tranny.
    Standard NAV with traffic link.
    ACE crash protection (new architecture).
    Headlights that swivel up to 20 degrees.

    No weight, but length is a bit shorter than the old model. They claim that they've used lighter materials in several main parts of the architecture.

    It looks exactly like the sketches. Put the sketch and photo side by side. Every line and detail matches up. You just have to know how to "read" a sketch. As I've written before, the use of line and color can make things look far more dramatic than is possible in real life.

    That said, I like it. It's handsome without being exotic. On other boards, they are comparing it with every vehicle under the sun. Which simply means it can't possibly look like anything else. The interior is a bit dark in that color, but the design looks nice. As with other recent Acuras, I love the gauges.
  • Does it look like a $45k car? I DO see a lot of the 2003 Acura TL in it! The windows are very flush, almost swollen!

       It's inoffensive, but the Dubs seen on the concept won't make production. So what will it look like with 17's?

       DrFill
  • eddiemaceddiemac Posts: 141
    is now available on the acura website.
  • I don't like it either.
    It looks like a bigger TL to me.

    I think if you want a sporty car, that's where the TL comes in.

    But if you want a pure luxury sedan for cruising, you gotta have something just for that too.

    For example, if you want pure luxury, you get a 740iL; if you want Sporty, you get the 540iL.
    If you want Luxury, you get the Lexus LS430; if you want Sporty, you get the GS430.

    The 05 RL just doesn't look like a pure luxury car to me. It looks more like a 540iL or GS430, except it has the excuse-me-did-you-say-V6 engine, instead of the that's-more-like-it-V8.

    Total disappointment to me.

    Well, perhaps I had it all wrong. I thought the RL was competing with the LS430, 740iL, Mercedes S430. But perhaps it was trying (and failing) to compete with the 540iL and GS430 all along.
    My bad.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Originally, Acura wanted the RL to compete with the LS and 740iL. It obviously flopped.

    The new RL is aimed at the GS300, E class, BMW 530, and Audi A6. While the V8 models get all the press, the V6 models are the ones that provide the bulk of their sales volume. If we are to believe the rumors, the base price will be higher than those, but the RL comes fully loaded. Not to mention that the RL's V6 boasts 300 hp, which is about 70-80 hp more than most of the others.

    This leaves Acura without a truly big luxury barge in their showroom. That may hurt them. But, lets face it, they haven't had one of those for the past 8 years. On the other hand, this RL does bring them back to something like the original Legend.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Wow, you managed to absolutely 100% miss the point of what Acura is trying to do with this RL. It IS a bigger TL. Acura positions the TL against the IS\ES, 3 series, C class, and the G35. By the way, theres no such car as a "540iL". L means long wheel base, as in A8L. A long wheelbase midsize car would be kind of stupid dont you think?

    The RL has never targeted the LS430 or S500 before, and it will continue to not target them. Honda doesnt make full size luxury cars. One question, do you know how many GS300s and and 530is out number their V8 counterparts? For the Lexus 80% of their sales are from the six cylinder car, so I dont think a V8 is an absolute "must have" in this segment. As I've said before, the current M45 comes V8 only, and its a sales disaster. Acura most likely has the '05 GS300 and '06 Infiniti M35 directly in their sites. If the car has 300hp, it will out power the '05 GS300 by 60hp, and it will at the very least match the M35, if Nissan can get their VQ up to 300hp in that application. Oh and by the way, a 911 Carerra 4S has an "excuse-me-did-you-say-V6" (well a boxer 6) and it will take every V8 car on your list to school. Hell a Subie STI makes 300hp out of 4 cylinders, and it will school those cars as well. There IS in fact a replacement for displacement. Honda engineering.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Here are some comparison specs I threw together (Edmunds is the source). For the prices, I tried to get equipment as close as possible. But with all the crazy option packages, I may have made a mistake or two.

    Acura RL
    44-48K (Estimated MSRP)
    300 hp V6
    AWD
    NAV
    193.5" long
    72.6" wide
    57.1" tall
    110.2" WB

    Lexus GS300 (current model)
    44,500 TMV (48,575 MSPRP)
    220 hp V6
    RWD
    NAV
    189.2" long
    70.9" wide
    55.9" tall
    110.2" WB

    Jaguar S-Type
    $49,000 TMV ($52,000 MSRP)
    235 hp V6
    RWD
    NAV
    192" long
    81.1 wide
    56" tall
    114.5 WB

    MB E-Class
    $52,943 TMV ($54,295 MSRP)
    221 hp V6
    RWD
    NAV
    189.7" long
    71.3" wide
    57.2" tall
    112.4" WB

    BMW 530i
    $52,500 TMV ($53,500 MSRP)
    225 hp V6
    RWD
    NAV
    190.6" long
    72.7" wide
    58" tall
    113.7" WB

    Audi A6 (current model)
    $42,700 TMV ($45,200 MSRP)
    220 hp V6
    AWD
    No NAV
    192" long
    71.3" wide
    57.1" tall
    108.6" WB
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 676
    the rear looks too much like the accord coupe...
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    I like!
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    Interior looks nice, but I'm not impressed with Exterior of the car. Can't say I don't like, it's just OK, looks a little like old TL with rear lights from Corolla. It better have good performance, otherwise can be a bust for Acura.
  • steveaccordsteveaccord Posts: 108
    As pointed already by several people I believe we must wait a bit before issuing final say on this vehicle. I agree that right now with 20" tyres and all it may have a sport attitute exceeding the needs of a luxury flagship car but overall the aesthetic is sound. I also seem to agree that it reminds of several cars (back from accord and new BMW 5 series, sides TL etc). This most certainly will result in fact in a 'unique' look (as already suggested by varmint). Most importantly, as for the release of the new accord, I feel that Honda/Accura styling does not cater to the "head turning" type of desires but more to the 'understated elegance'. When I drive around in my 2003 Accord a lot of folks in Buicks etc.. actually ask if it is from the MB line of products. In fact that design grows on you until you realize that like for previous models these are designs that live on to establish 'classics'. The real gain is that you do not feel sitting in a sardine box as styling at large sweeps back and forth between linear-edgy/or curvilineous-soft trends. So I am sure we will enjoy this car for the 'looks' portion and I have no doubt that will be extatic about the 'innards' of the car. On this side although I would have loved to have more info about the production vehicle ( I guess some of the stats missing reflect upon this at the NYMS being a prototype and not really the production vehicle). I also would love to know about plans of implementation of the electric engine coupling to the 300HP gasoline 6V and other aspects of the SH-AWD. Well it is actually a long wish list...... but I am hopefull we will hear soon about the car and how it actually drives!!!
    :-)
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    i was wondering what your track record is for predicting a sales success/flop based upon YOUR styling tastes?

    we were all right on the aztec.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    hopefully you will test drive the upcoming RL too. doubtful that you'll get a $7k discount on this car though. at least for now.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    My logic is that RL has to compete with a line of vehicles like newly designed 5, GS, A6 and M45. Current RL does not have a big stake in this category, based on this it MUST have TOTAL PACKAGE. I'm sure Rl will be able to double current sales, but I think Acura have different number in mind.
    If you take TL for example, it goes head to head with 5 year old 330 and 3 year old G35. TL also had a big stake in near luxury and has nice design.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It doesnt matter if the TL's competition is a few years older. The TL spanks them, its a best in class car. The older TL never reached those heights. What will most likely happen is Infiniti will "freshen" its G35 for '05, which Im sure Honda designed the TL to be prepared for. the 3 series is a bit of a wild card. BMW wouldnt dare to mess with their darling... but that doesnt mean bangle still wont royally screw it design wise, like he has with every single BMW since he took the job.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    Don't get me wrong a like TL and I too think it's the bast in class, but in my opening TL has something RL does not. I think RL will have the same success previous TL had, it will put Acura on the map(in this class), but it want has success of new TL. Maybe I just expected too much, who knows.

    Time will show.
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Posts: 709
    The new RL looks great to me but how is this SH AWD any different than my wife's Subaru LL Bean with AWD and LSD on the rear wheels?
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    ...when looking at photos of this car (plus all the excellence coming from other automakers), it's amazing how many outstanding luxury sedans are out there right now, is it not?

    - Bret
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Nowakj66 - Good question. It's been a while since I've read up on Subie's LSD implementation, but I think these are the differences.

    An LSD is designed to prevent more than a bare minimum of slippage. During a hard turn, it ensures that the outside wheel gets a fair share of the torque being routed through the rear diffy. But the amount of torque split between the rear wheels is pretty much 50/50.

    SH-AWD takes it a step further. This system makes sure that the outside wheel get even more than it's fair share of power. It can send as much as 100% to one side or the other. With more torque going to the outside wheel, it pushes the car around the turn.

    Are you familiar with the ATTS system that Honda offered on the Prelude SH? It's like that, only for the rear wheels.

    Furthermore, SH-AWD uses electronic sensors hooked up to the steering, engine, a yaw gyro-thingy, and brakes to manage torque distribution. If you stomp on the gas, it sends power to the rear for better traction and acceleration. If you yank the wheel to the right, it sends power to the outside left wheel as you turn (not after).
  • If you mean Best Torque-steerer in Class, than yeah!

       MT just put the CTS ahead of it, and C&D didn't exactly say "Amen" either!

       It's a nice car, but let's settle down, or we'll have to enforce a two drink minimum, k?

       DrFill
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Instead of cutting down on power at one wheel, it transmits the power to the other, and in a continuous pattern (not in steps, or some preset distribution).
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    First I said that's what I THINK, but if you want to go with review, CR rated number one over 330, G35 and so on( CR is most reliable out of all magazines).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    So this is the new RL. Not much in the way of styling, looks like a S-Class hit a 7-Series at the rear, it has a little Bangle trunklid treatment and a S-Class like light treatment. Other than the extra features its just a upgraded TL, which isn't "bad" I guess, but I expected more in the area of styling considering what a leap the new TL was over the old model. This new RL still has that Accord shape to it, no matter what the details that shape is still there.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    After looking at the pictures some more, I see a lot of the just discontinued Acura CL coupe in the lines of this new RL. This car is just so uninspired, stylewise at least.

    M
  • The new RL reminds me of the current Infinite Q. When it came out, people talked about the features of the car, but it just didn't sell that well, mostly because it didn't look as good as the SClass and Lexus LS. Now, I think Acura will have better sales than before, because face it, the current RL was good 3 or 4 years ago...but now, not so much. The biggest problem is, I just don't get the "WOW" effect when I see the car. When I saw the TL, even the TSX, I got somewhat of a "wow" that looks really good, and will definitely be able to compete w/ the BMWs, MBs, Audis and Infiniti's. Being an Acura buff, I think like many, I was hoping that the new RL was going to be the new Acura Revolution. The MDX, TL, TSX started the way, and the RL, though looks nice, and I'm sure will have a lot of great features, just didn't make me feel satiated. The MB Eclass, the BMW 5 Series both bring the "WOW" effect. They may not offer the greatest amount of options, but for some reason, people are willing to pay for them...so, I think in order for Acura to bring people to their dealerships, they need to get them from the outside, which is probably why the TL is doing so well, it looks great!
  • jpayne1jpayne1 Posts: 1
    Its not really fair to compare this car to all of the 5 or E series. If it is going to cost 48K to 50K fully optioned then it only compares to the 525 and forget the E all together. The base prices of these cars are in the same range but that base is only the min and try to find that on the lot....
      To me this car should be compared with the M45 and the GS300. Agains those - its a winner in my book. After the M45 (or M35) is revamped by the end of the year it might be a toss up ( I really thing Infiniti will mess up again on the styling and interior).
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Posts: 709
    Thanks for the LSD v. SH-AWD explaination. It makes sense now. Sounds a bit more sophisticated and performance oriented.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    "( CR is most reliable out of all magazines)"

    I respect CR, and it serves an essential consumer perspective. But we all know it will pick practicality over excitement almost every single time.

    CR picks TL, the enthusiast mags pick G35, that says it all.

    I expect the same with RL/M. CR will pick RL and GS over M, that's a virtual given, but I don't think Infiniti minds. Neither do Infiniti fans!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I remember the days when first pictures of TSX and TL came out. People weren't "wowed".

    Flagships are hardly about wow factor (stylingwise). Look at LS430. In case of Mercedes, the C-class, E-class and the S-class are virtually identical, and so it the case with Audi. BMW is heading in the same direction although the company tried to break the mold and move from a conservative styling (last generation 7-series) to the new aggressive look that everybody seems to hate.

    Sometimes I wonder what people want.

    And cars within the same family (same automaker) are bound to have common cues. It is virtually unavoidable. Better to use one's own cues than copy it (like many do).
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    The photo of the RL on the previous page I don't like it. It looks like a dud. The front end says Infinti I35 all over it which looks ok but nothing stunning. A hint of Pontiac GTO in there too on the front end. Just nothing eye catching. I didn't like the 04 TL at first but now I like it. Thats just a prototype photo of the RL. We all now how Honda likes to play with people's minds before a car is released so we don't know if thats what the 05 RL is going to look like or not.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I’ve seen people comment that it looks like an Accord. Some said… Catera. A few have said Millenia. You say it looks like Infiniti I35. So I assume I35 looks like Millenia, which in turn looks like Catera and the Caddy looked like an Accord (going in reverse of their launch order). Interesting, isn’t it?

    I see this style as inoffensive, while retaining familiar cues that I have come to expect from Honda/Acura. The tail lamp rear is reminiscent of Acura CL (first generation), the overall rear profile resembles the direction that Acura adopted in the late 90s (first generation TL and RL and carried into last CL), as well as in Honda Accord coupe (in its current form, which I always thought took the cues from 1996+ TL and 2001 CL).

    The front is a smoother version of the current RL’s (which I happen to like). Updated nicely, without deviating much.

    THIS VIEW is a better representative of the frontal style, and it has “Acura” written all over it.

    And while Im at it... a close up shot of the REAR .
  • That's your opinion.
    To think that the current '04 RL actually competes with any sports sedans is stupid, don't you think?
    All the Acura sales people I've talked to says that the RL is aimed at competing with the Lexus LS.
    By the way, excuse me for that fatal "L" I accidentally attached to the "i" for the BMW 540i.
    Ever heard of mistypes?
    Perhaps you spell everything correct 100% of the time, but most of us don't.
  • I agree.
    Nothing about those pics makes me want to even test drive it. Looks like a souped-up Accord.
    Tragic and pathetic excuse for a top-of-the-line luxury vehicle.

    I don't know. Maybe the new RL will be the middle of the line like the BMW 5-Series or GS and a new Acura top-of-the-line will appear as a 2006 model to compete with the LS430 and BMW740.
  • I for one perfer the looks of the LS430 to any sports car or sedan and the looks of the 04 RL to the new RL or TL or TSX.

    To me, flagship needs to be pure luxury. Mid models like the GS, 5-series, etc. can go for more styles and sporty.

    But if the RL now competes with the GS300 and 530, etc., I guess it better have style and sport.

    Different strokes for different folks.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I’m clueless as to why you would even start a discussion regarding 2004 RL being a “sport sedan”. Part of its failure (in recent years anyway) was that it was not, and the other part being that it didn’t get freshened up couple of times like its competition did.

    2005 RL is different, at least on paper. This RL may be comparable to the LS430 in some ways…
    - cabin size
    - both are flagships for their respective brands

    The RL may actually have more standard features than the base LS430, even though it would cost thousands less. It would be ridiculous to expect direct competition at 25% discount.

    You appear to be a big fan of LS430. Not sure what moves you about its styling. That car does nothing for me.

    Oh, and the next GS looks like eggplant on wheels to me. :-) Okay, that was a little harsh, but it is too bloated to my tastes.

    The RL, is tighter. Nothing outstanding about the styling, but that is how flagships are styled. Just think the new BMW 7-series versus the old. What do you think? Understated styling is the key.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "I’m clueless as to why you would even start a discussion regarding 2004 RL being a “sport sedan”."

    I was too, but I think I've figured it out. His logic goes like this. If the '04 RL was not targeted at the LS430, then it must have been aimed at the GS300 (a sport sedan). It's an either/or fallacy, but an understandlable one.

    FWIW, I think the '04 RL had no true competition. It was in a niche by itself. I expect many of the customers who bought them compared it with fully loaded ES300 sedans. The RL had similar equipment, a similar price tag, but was bigger on the inside.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Oh well, I can live with the boring styling as long as all the features are right. SH-AWD is definitely going to bring me into the showroom to testdrive it. Anyways, I think it will compete well against the LS430 since the LS is even more plain.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I've written it before and Robertsmx just hinted at it, but perhaps an example is in order.

    So far, in this thread alone, we've learned that the new RL look like the TL, Accord coupe, Corolla, S-Class, 7 Series, CL-S, old 2.3CL, I35, and the Pontiac GTO.

    In other forums, I've seen comparisons with most of the above, plus the following: Catera, several Hyundais, Millenia, Accord sedan, Legend, Mazda6, old Camry, Phaeton, Q45, and IS300.

    It's a bloomin' chameleon!

    BTW, for all of you trying to describe the taillights, look at the last Aurora. (There's another one!) =)
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Rctennis - I think you mean, "Anyways, I think it will compete well against the GS430 since the GS is even more plain."
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I love the new RL. Enough said.
    It is targeting the new M35, GS300, 525/530, and E320, A6. Those who said it is targeting LS, you must check your MSRP once again. LS is a floating device. Luxurious, but drives like a boat. Ever try 530 with sports package?

    I hope let us get by the look, and discuss more on some of the details of RL. I, for one, has a question:
    - does it come with LED taillights? Can't tell for sure from picture, and does not mention it anywhere in the news.

    Finally, I think the silver in photos does not do it justice. A deep blue or jet black would look really nice with the new 2005 RL. And, that is probably what I would order with beige interior.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    I actually DID mean GS. Slip of the tongue...er keyboard. LOL :-P Thanks!
  • prattsterprattster Posts: 59
    I think its looks pretty darn good, not flashy but then Acura's never were sans the NSX. It's definitely more sport looking, muscular and rakish. Very nice subtle body details. Long live the wedge! I see some Benz bumper detailing, just a hint of 7 series rear detailing and some I35 frontish similarity. The front panels are Accord like in look in 3/4 view . Don't think the 20 shoes will make production. What we see here is 95% the final product. They really sweated the details on this on.

    The inside is not going to disappoint, it looks rich and well executed. Materials should be top notch no surprises here. It's also going to have the latest smart key technology like the new revised LS430. Handling is going to be near class leading. This class is really going to get hot as the all new M35/45 and GS are set to launch.
  • "Its not really fair to compare this car to all of the 5 or E series."

    I think Acura has to compare itself to any car that offers an equivalent V6 engine, even if it is sold for $10k more. Acura needs to make a bold statement if it wants to attract the higher end customers. If a person could afford to get a fully loaded E320, and saw the new RL, they should want to go with the RL not because of the money, but because that it looks great, and has the features of an SClass. I just think Acura needs to realize that looks are vital, and it needs to be bold to take some important market share.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    I love the new RL. Enough said.
    It is targeting the new M35, GS300, 525/530, and E320, A6. Those who said it is targeting LS, you must check your MSRP once again. LS is a floating device. Luxurious, but drives like a boat. Ever try 530 with sports package?

    I hope let us get by the look, and discuss more on some of the details of RL. I, for one, has a question:
    - does it come with LED taillights? Can't tell for sure from picture, and does not mention it anywhere in the news.

    Finally, I think the silver in photos does not do it justice. A deep blue or jet black would look really nice with the new 2005 RL. And, that is probably what I would order with beige interior.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Ceric - There's a sticker on the NY RL Prototype (in the doorjamb or in the trunk). It reads, "Original Tire Size P245/50R17".

    As long as we're at it... The spare is a compact. Total combined weight of passengers and cargo should not exceed 850 lbs.

    "I just think Acura needs to realize that looks are vital, and it needs to be bold to take some important market share."

    I agree, but then again, I don't. =) I mean, the 99-03 TL was nice, but not bold. It did just fine.
  • What's the real advantage of a V8 vs. a V6?

    Let's say I don't care for speed.
    Let's say I just want that road isolation and quiet ride of a Lexus, but I just don't want to pay that extra $10K.

    Could a V6 ride as smooth and quiet as a V8?
    For example, could a V6 ride as smooth, quiet, and road-isolated as the Lexus LS430?

    Okay, I don't see how quietness has anything to do with engine size. But theoretically, could Acura have made the RL with a V6 to be as road-isolated and smooth riding as the LS430 and still costs $10K less?

    Or how about a base model GX470 SUV which costs about the same as the RL? Could the RL be as smooth, quiet, and road-isolated as the GX470 SUV?

    Again, this is assuming I just care about luxury, quiet, smooth, road-isolated, and not at all about performance or speed.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,092
    Varmint, did you address to the wrong person?
    I make no reference to about tire size sticker, which I knew about from other sites already. Why did you bring it up to me? The points?

    Andrewtran71, again, the new RL is not about tranquility. Yes, it is the top-end of Acura, but who says the top-end of a brand name must be luxurious, not sporty? Honda, as a company is about 4X smaller than Toyota. It has no V8 to compete in that sesegment. I am glad Acura give that up until at least they have the IMA ready for big time.
    Why you described seems like ES330 to me. Trust me, 100lb insolation materials could make most good vehicle as quiet as any Lexus, but would I like it, NO. That is 100lb too heavy to me.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Complete isolation from road may be a good thing to some (you) but not to others (me). I want to feel some of it, thats why I care about driving. Otherwise I would be just as happy to take the bus to work or have someone else do the driving.

    RL would be a great car if it offered the right mix of ride, features, performance (acceleration & handling), and for a reasonable price. I hope it doesn't carry a long list of options (thats something I hate to see in "luxury" cars, hey that was the idea to have luxury cars, right?).

    On paper, RL appears to address that. Now, how it feels in person, we shall see. At this point, I'd imagine that RL to LS430 would be more like Accord to Camry. And you know which I would prefer.
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