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Comments
Overall I think, however understated the going out generation RL looks, it won't loose luster. I am already bored of the way the G35's and the Z's look. Lexus just never grows on me. When we were test driving cars last year, undecided on what to get... and we tested all the way from the 3 convertible that we got to the MDX/GX470 to an LS and when in the lexus, i felt like i was dead and in a coffin... emotionally...
but interesting lexus nailing the top spot for 10 years in a row... very very cool indeed. Interestingly, Honda/Acura seemed to be falling off last year and have made a very good comeback to #2 this year and are barely behind lexus/toyota. The two of them put others to shame... but if you look at the full report, you'll see the koreans are making such super strides, they are the ones who really put everyone to shame.
ksso
hey jeff, are you in NJ yet?
Click on the misc entry
There is a pic called "05 RL Grey2"
Based on those colors in the pic, I'm sure someone can photoshop up what the grey interior will look like.
Click on the misc entry<
I got to your Yahoo page fine, but after selecting and clicking on "Misc", all I get is "Website not responding".
- but -
man, the 745 is sweet. Much more fun to drive, more comfortable (try out air conditioned seats in Texas in the summer!), and I actually get better highway mileage on the 745 than in the RL - 27 mpg vs. 25 mpg.
The American market is way different from the European market, but even over there the big V-dub has failed. It seems that only Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi can make little-bitty car and big V12 cars with prestige, not even VW can, and not even in Germany, their home turf.
"As Ive said previously, I think BMWs rank is mostly thanks to its 3 series sales. X5s and 7s are rated as awful for long term dependability."
Once upon a time ago we had a certain Cadillac fanatic that went on and on about Mercedes' poor showing in these surveys, while preaching how much superior BMW's were. I stated the above, plus some other things to the contrary. Said person went out and bought a 2002 (first year) BMW 745i and had nothing but problems and is now disgusted. I have never in my life said "I told you so" any louder than I did the day I read their profile and postings after purchasing their 745i.
M
I've also said that this person should have checked where the 7-Series ranked on these precious surveys.
Exactly right, because the previous (1995-2001) 7-Series was a mess also, per the surveys.
But let some folks tell it BMW is so superior in every way compared to MB and Audi.
M
So, she says, "who cares if these boring cars are at the top of the heap?" Further adding, "if something is perfect but undesirable, that's no big deal." I tried to find information about the Lexus cars that would in any way sway her -- but the reviews (most notably in Car and Driver and Automobile Magazine) of the GS300 (for example) talk about all the sacrifices the driver has to make to "enjoy" the reliability and perfection. The GS can't seem to get no respect -- even losing to an Audi A6 in a not too old comparo of the GS300 to the Audi A6 2.7T and the E Class Merc -- indeed the only car the GS seem to "best" was a Jaguar -- oh the ignominy.
Now, for the past day or so, I have been searching the web and all the magazines I have at my house looking for information on the upcoming GS300 AWD with the more powerful engine, new styling, 6spd automatic, etc. Those caring to opine about the new GS300 seem to praise it long and loud (unlike the previous generation GS300). They also claim that Lexus will "hold the line on base price to about $40K" (in line with the new A6 if you factor in a couple of grand for the AWD option on the GS, I would think).
So, does this new and improved (with 50% more soul) Lexus deserve to be placed on the short list (even though my dealer group, as far as I know, does not have the franchise -- I will check)?
Hopefully Lexusguy or Legendman will chime in and help "me" -- my wife, temporarily influenced, still believes you cannot substitute reliability for "the driving pleasure" (Farfignewton?) -- I, on the other hand, am willing to listen -- and, for the record this is solely, at this point, due to the impression the TL made upon me -- torque steer notwithstanding, that TL was one "german-like" car, regardless of its origins.
The link below will tell you what areas the traffic update will cover.
http://www.xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=traffic
Since when do they put Kevlar in consumer tires? Would that be a tire destined for use in Baghdad?
I'm heading out for vacation so I'll try to make my comments short but sweet.
The TL is arguably one of the finest examples of the melding of road driving pleasure with bullet proof reliability. The TL has garnered respectful nods from a broad range of automobile authorities --whether they be by well known auto magazines to enthusiast groups of young and old.
With respect to the BMW and it's road worthiness I say simply this. You can't enjoy driving the car if it's parked at the repair shop. If past history is any guide, you'll be visiting the shop a lot if you buy a beemer.
With an Acura I have the peace of mind and satisfaction of knowing that my car is always ready to go wherever and whenever I want to go, in comfort and safety, all the while delivering a crisp, exhilarating and satisfying ride.
By the way, if you spend a fair amount of time in your car, comfort is important. I think that's another area where Acura comes out on top over BMW's tight seats, spartan interior and punishing ride.
If your wife said that, tell her she's a genius.
That is exactly the problem Lexus has. If they ever overcome it, game over.
ksso
The XKR, even with its reall outrageously stupid hand operated drop top is still a statement. The SC 430, i dunno what it says, if it can even croak a voice to make a statement. Sorry, but Jaguar, even if they don't live up to it, are all about excitement and performance and class. Lexus to me just doesn't say 2 out of 3.
ksso
“No wonder Toyotas don’t appeal to younger buyers”
I believe the same thing happened to SC300 when it transformed into SC430. I saw the predecessor as a sporty luxury coupe that would appeal to youngish executives. But that’s not true with the current generation.
To get the train back on track, I like Acura’s direction with the new RL/Legend. More compact, and apparently, more sport instilled into it. The mess created in the mid-90s can (hopefully) be left behind.
I've a feeling that Honda will send the new RL (as Legend) to Europe as well, good reasons to shrink the exterior dimensions (while increasing the interior room).
And may be, Honda will also develop a diesel V6 to complement the 2.2/I-4.
have a good weekend all, can't wait for the weekend's weather and GOLF!
ksso
Good, bad or indifferent, without the X type, I fear there would no longer be a Jaguar company, period.
Lexus & BMW experienced a similar pattern with their x5 and the smaller lexus crossover suv (name escapes me).
"Figures released by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders show they increased by that amount in June compared to the same month last year.
The company said it sold a record number of cars (world wide) in the first half of this year, just over 18,000.
European sales rose by 40% over the same period compared to the first half of last year and the firm said new diesel models played a key part.
Director of corporate affairs, Don Hume, said: "The increase is a lot to do with the introduction of new models and the revising of existing ones.
"The S-type for instance was improved at the start of the year and a diesel-powered version of that is imminent.
"We're able to offer significant fuel economy gains with the diesel X-type, which came in last year."
The X-type has been the most successful, with sales increasing by 37% across the range in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year.
But while just over 14,000 cars have been sold in Europe in the last six months, there has been a slight decline of 3% in sales in the US market in that time."
Source BBC News July 7th 2004.
Good point about the MDX/RL cross-"hoppers"... actually varmint makes a good point, there might be some super used MDX on the lots if that happens post leases... however, from a friend in AHFC, i hear that the ratio of leased MDX's is not so significantly high. He said a lot of people tend to lease M350's, X5's & Lexus SUV/crossovers, but with MDX's the ratio is lower than the industry...
hmmm
ksso
"Figures released by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders show they increased by that amount in June compared to the same month last year.
The company said it sold a record number of cars (world wide) in the first half of this year, just over 18,000.
European sales rose by 40% over the same period compared to the first half of last year and the firm said new diesel models played a key part.
Director of corporate affairs, Don Hume, said: "The increase is a lot to do with the introduction of new models and the revising of existing ones.
"The S-type for instance was improved at the start of the year and a diesel-powered version of that is imminent.
"We're able to offer significant fuel economy gains with the diesel X-type, which came in last year."
The X-type has been the most successful, with sales increasing by 37% across the range in the first half of the year compared to the same period last year.
But while just over 14,000 cars have been sold in Europe in the last six months, there has been a slight decline of 3% in sales in the US market in that time."
Source BBC News July 7th 2004.
The Acura's have always been reliable and that 91 Legend was mighty fine.
The new RL is for the wife so we have something to drive on long trips. Looking forward to seeing the whole list of features and will probably buy in the Fall.
Many long time lurkers and posters alike certainly know that there is a camp that seems to be virtually certain that Lexus and Acura and some other (usually Japanese) cars are of the highest caliber with respect to reliability. And, those of us who have -- finally -- placed a Premium Japanese car on our shopping list are beginning to believe that it is possible to have a high quality, fun to drive, high performance car that is simultaneously reliable. Previously, I, for one, had come to think that extremely high reliability often carried with it a price of driving blandness or other less desirable traits.
Perhaps the almost obsession with reliability -- that I lack -- stems from the fact that my non-Japanese cars have NEVER stranded me (and I am 53 and have had some 30 total cars in my garage (this accounts for my wife's cars, too, BTW).)
So, I ask one of the people I work with -- who has an Acrua (1999) what he thinks about his car. He says he really likes it (he also has a Honda). I ask him the $49,000 question, "would you own another one?" Without hesitation he says "no way!" I asked him why, especially since he says he really likes [driving] it.
He started listing the number of things that have gone wrong with the car -- most of them relatively minor, BTW -- that had "stranded him."
Recently, he and his wife decided to go on a 4 day long weekend trip. He says, they get into the car and roll down the front driver's window and they heard a crunch or crash and the window motor broke off and the window was stuck permanently down. It was a Saturday, he had no appointment and he lives in an apartment and doesn't have a garage -- the car could not be left out in the elements with the window down. The long story is that they lost a full day of their long weekend and took the Civic instead.
On another out of town trip, the entire electrical system failed. And then there was one after another brake related problem. And, um, well after about the fifth "little" problem, I thought his one Acura had practically as many problems as our 27 Audis have had COMBINED.
Perhaps, this is an anomaly. I actually believe it is. But, the point is, we consumers often buy based on anecdotes. Had my only exposure to Acura have been my co-worker, well I would probably not even consider moving forward with a test drive of the new RL (although the test drive of the TL was certainly fantastic).
So, this ONE LONE man's niggling problems have put a slight chink in the armor of the Japanese reliability -- uh, well, maybe it's more of a blemish than a chink, but it is, finally, somewhat good to hear that these cars aren't "perfect."
I read so much stuff on these forums that constantly praises several brands and likewise disses several others (VW to name but one) -- and I was getting to the point where my truth detection meter was darn near pointing to "if it sounds too good to be true. . ." well, you know the rest.
I can now move forward, once again, feeling that some of these too good to be true stories of "Legendary" reliability, are just that, too good.
And, from my point of view, that's the best news I've heard in a long time.
some time ago, we were remodeling our house and the garages were filled with ahem, stuff. I take my wife's bmw convertible out for a spin and the rear driver side quarter mirror gets stuck in the fully closed position. This means I am screwed, because I see rain clouds gathering, the top won't go up and there is no place to stowe the car. I called BMW 24 hour service and the woman hooks me up with the local dealer. The local dealer says, sorry its a sunday, i've no mechanics. I am 20 miles from home. BMW 24 hour service support woman tells me, "sir, pull into the nearest covered parking that you can find, and send us the bill for whatever time it needs to sit there"...
I have had immense minor gripes with my wife's car. But most in that company treat me well. But... I recently got one of my "free" scheduled services from the local dealer. The dealer refuses to give me a loaner. Says I did not buy a car from them, can't give a loaner. (I moved from out of state). I am thinking, wow, I plunked down almost 50K for a car and this jokers tells me this? I called up 24 hour service and told them my problem. They connect me to some other department and the dealer calls me next day saying, sir we could have settled this, why did you go to HQ? I tell him, lets see how good you are, or my next car is going to be bought 50 miles away.
So yes, as donbl so well put it, it all finally boils down to the dealer and their service department.. some of them make our worst problems vanish with a smile, some make our least problems look like giants.
ksso
Anecdotes v statistics -- age old problem. My take on this whole discussuion around why we purchase what we do has a bit more than a little ego involved in defending our decisions. No one wants to look like they made a bad decision, especially those among we who research the heck out of our choices. (Paralysis by analysis?) Research, decide then ultimately, cross our fingers.
For those who prefer reliability over dash, then to have an experience with the above mentioned acura is doubly troubling. The worst of both worlds. Luckily for that owner, you reported he/she loved to drive it so they might have been having the ultimate "Jaguar" experience, at least statistically speaking.
Today's audi company is probably still trying to overcome the audi experience of a decade ago when consumer reports had strings of blackballs on the electrical components and brake reliability lines.
It doesn't mean that the electrical systems on the newest audis are bad at all, it means they once were and audi suffers from the historical perception. Today's jags, from a reliability standpoint, probably outclass most cars from the mid-90's but are still discredited with the pre-ford experience. Anecdotally, my in-laws xj8 has been wonderful along with their caddies and buicks. no problems whatsoever.
Only cars I've ever been stranded in were my datsun '74 610 wagon with a blown oil headgasket; and my '73 volvo 144s with a broken fuel line. both occurred well after 100k miles. have never been stranded in an american car!
the '96 rl I just sold was completely reliable and not costly to maintain after warranty. so was our '95 explorer so I can't really laud acura for being much better than ford then can I? anecdotally, that is...