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Acura RL

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    10% off the MSRP is something I set my target at. Although, I would say that some vehicles could be better value at MSRP than another at invoice. In the end, it is about getting what you pay for.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>10% off the MSRP is something I set my target at. Although, I would say that some vehicles could be better value at MSRP than another at invoice. In the end, it is about getting what you pay for.

    I have never understood the hangup about paying a certain percentage under MSRP. In my opinion, what's important are: can I afford it, does it have the features I feel are important, does it offer good value for the price, and how does it compare to the competition - in features, reliability, price, etc. Once I've answered those questions in relation to the car I want to buy, I then focus on comparing dealer to dealer in my area. If all dealers in an area are selling a car for roughly the same price, whatever that relationship is to MSRP, I can then make a decision on whether to buy now, or wait.

    But to say I won't buy X car until I can get it for some arbitrary percentage under MSRP makes no sense to me. However, your next two sentences make complete sense to me. That should be the primary focus, in my opinion.

    As far as the RL goes, I believe it will be at least six months before there will be any dealing under MSRP.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    There is a reason to the 10% I mention. It gets you close to the MSRP (at least based on Invoice versus MSRP we see mentioned at places like Edmunds).

    But you're correct otherwise. Like I said earlier, some cars at MSRP may be better than others at below MSRP.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>There is a reason to the 10% I mention. It gets you close to the MSRP (at least based on Invoice versus MSRP we see mentioned at places like Edmunds).

    I use Edmunds and have always been happy. When I bought my RL, using Edmunds I got it for more than 10% under MSRP.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I've never understood the hangup regarding MSRP. A dealer offers a customer $2,000 cash back on a car that costs $52,000 and they jump on it. Another dealer offers the same car at $50,000 firm, and the same customer gets uppity.

    The car is worth what the market decides.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Just realized that 04 RL had only one trim already, and its msrp is around $46K too. So it's almost impossible for Acura to price it lower than that when 05 RL is so much improved. And one trim only is just a continued strategy from the olds, which did not have much success on its own. I am still not sure one-trim only is the best way to do it. But there seems to be lots more features tied to the screen on this new RL.

    That said, we all know that the old RL has been selling no where near msrp for a long time, even way before 05 came about, so it's really up to the market to decide again if this RL is worth that much among many more established choices. Pre-set whatever below msrp may not mean much (a la, old RL).

    Someone said TL/MDX selling msrp is just short term luck? Maybe. But I recall a Honda minivan selling msrp for three+ years. What a luck!
  • autophileautophile Member Posts: 14
    I think the 2006 GS with AWD, out in May 2005, with Nav, etc. (i.e., equipped like the RL), is going to be comfortably over $50k. It is a smaller car than the RL in every dimension and doesn't have the RL's power and performance. But you can bet it will hold its value better than the RL.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >I have never understood the hangup about paying a certain percentage under MSRP. In my opinion, what's important are: can I afford it, does it have the features I feel are important, does it offer good value for the price, and how does it compare to the competition - in features, reliability, price, etc.

    Ten percent off of a $50,000 car is $5,000. To me, that's real money.

    Moreover, paying five grand more just adds to the tax I must pay on the purchase, as well as on the car registration each year. Out here in California that can be astronomical, as registration fees are based on purchase price, not horsepower or other factors.

    If I can keep $5,000 in my bank account I am sure as heck going to go through the precious little effort it takes me to haggle for a better price. In fact, I enjoy the challenge!

    >Once I've answered those questions in relation to the car I want to buy, I then focus on comparing dealer to dealer in my area.<

    Yeah, but I have found that once you own the car, most dealerships are only too delighted to take in a customer's service business -- regardless of whether or not the car was bought from them.

    I agree that servicing your car where you bought is a plus, but not one I would pay $5,000 extra for, or even $2,500 extra for.

    Last time I paid full MSRP was for my 1983 Honda Accord Sedan. I've learned a lot about car buying since then. A lot depends on the "gotta have it now" syndrome. When you are so afflicted, one can expect to bend over a little as you sign on the dotted line.
  • hfrankelhfrankel Member Posts: 18
    My sales rep tells me my car will be in BY Oct 14th, which means i have to more quickly to figure out the lease arrangement. Since he doesn't have residual info, i asked for the residual/money factor for a 05 TL w/ Navigation based on 36 months/12,000 a year. He came back with 60% Residual and a Money factor of .00260 (add .0001 to waive security deposit). He expects the residual to be "a bit lower on the RL".

    Since this works out to 6.24%, there must be a better lease deal through a 3rd party. Problem is, no one has any info on the car yet.

    I'm wondering if the residual values will be better when the car starts selling for below MSRP. Any thoughts? Thanks.
  • dogface5dogface5 Member Posts: 87
    As car buyers we like to equate a "good deal" to $X off MSRP or $Y above/below invoice. But car buying is a business, and just like any other business it follows the laws of economics. Deciding whether or not a certain car warrants a certain price doesn't just depend on the car and the price, but rather it also depends on other factors: demand for the car, available supply, resale value down the line. As any old car dealer will tell you, a car that has sold has been sold at the "right" price.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    A similarly loaded M35 AWD is $49k, not $55k. I don't think adding stuff like spoilers, body kits, chrome wheels, and power rear seats and climate controls, and rear DVD system is a fair comparison.
    In any case, those prices for the M aren't final.

    I think the biggest competitor to the RL will be the M35, and vice versa. Both are similar in price, power, room, features, prestige, and buyers market (both Japanese).
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    I couldn't agree more. Both RL and M35-AWD would have to rob market share from German makers like BMW, MB and Audi. Lexus GS is not so much direct competitor. However, based on what we have read about SH-AWD, you can probably envision the auto mags putting RL at the first place of all comparison tests. Sales would certainly take off at that point. If you want a discount from MSRP on RLs, you may need to wait at least 6 months. Just my guess. Most local dealers have their first 1-2 months supply claimed already, at MSRP.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .most folks don't haggle over the price of something. It is almost something that many would just not dream of, not ever try.

    The same is true at department stores and hardware stores. Certainly it is true as gas stations.

    Now, is our reluctance to pay MSRP [for cars] because we think the cars aren't worth their asking prices? Is it part of a time tested game? I dunno. I think it is nuts to pay OVER MSRP, but I know folks who have done so, and done so more than once (and for a PT Cruiser for Pete's sake!)

    I often find the MSRP to be virtually irrelevant, since I always lease -- but I understand the concept of "not wanting" to pay MSRP.

    The experience many of us have had would seem to indicate that RIGHT NOW is the time to buy a brand new 2004 car [Acura for the sake of argument]. By extrapolation, about one year from now will be the best time to "get the best deal" on a new [2005] RL.

    I have "negotiated" at a grocery store -- it can be done. I also negotiated at an electronics store for my HDTV.

    Those who are happy with their auto purchases at list price got a good deal.

    I am now at a stage in my life (I'm over 50) where I can wait for the car -- I don't have to have it on DAY ONE of release. The only person that knows, on day two is me.

    But the lease payment lingers, usually for another 35 months -- and, frankly it galls me to pay more for the same car as my neighbor, because I got it 30 to 90 days earlier.

    My only current concern about the new RL is that my expectations were set that it would be substantially under $50,000 -- it's current price of over $49,000 seems to belie that claim.

    Thus far, the RL seems to be a heck of a lot of car, perhaps a leading technology even -- but I have a tinge of "bait and switch" itus; and, that, for some reason, bothers me "a bit."

    I can't wait to test drive one, though -- and then shortly thereafter test the new A6 and the 300C AWD.

    Sorry for wandering a bit, but all this "MSRP" bashing has always confused me -- I, frankly, would love to have cars be fixed-price like corn flakes; as it stands right now, it appears that cars, universally, are over priced.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>Ten percent off of a $50,000 car is $5,000. To me, that's real money.

    It's real money to me too - you simply missed my point. To set an arbitrary % off from MSRP is ridiculous. It's like walking into a house for sale and refusing to pay more than X% over the cost to build it. It's market forces that's most important. If you can negotiate 10% or whatever % under MSRP, more power to you. My only point is that to focus totally on MSRP is shortsighted.

    >>Yeah, but I have found that once you own the car, most dealerships are only too delighted to take in a customer's service business -- regardless of whether or not the car was bought from them.

    That's true. However, most dealership, including the one closest to me, offer many benefits to those who buy from them. As a buyer at my dealership, I get priority over buyers from other dealerships, I get discounts on service, etc. Over the years I keep a car, those benefits can add up to a lot.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    10% sounds arbitrary, and is. But, have you noticed the difference between a typical invoice price and MSRP (right here at Edmunds)? About 10% off MSRP is a good way to guesstimate the invoice price, if not an accurate measurement.

    BTW, this has nothing to do with a car being worth at MSRP or not. Just a little fact, that some of us could use.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)

    Legend Interior

    news and pictures

    If I understand correctly, the integrated NAVI screen can display HTML, etc. I need to get my friend who read Japanese to confirm this.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The fact that there is only one full optioned $50k model could hurt RL sales a bit.

    There are plenty of people out there who would rather buy a decently optioned (Premium package, auto, xenon) 525i for $46k, or even a 530i (Premium package, auto, xenon) for $50k.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    There are plenty of people out there who would rather buy a decently optioned (Premium package, auto, xenon) 525i for $46k, or even a 530i (Premium package, auto, xenon) for $50k.

    According the the sales numbers, together, BMW sold about 2500+ units of 525 and 530 in Sep. Without MINI and X3, BMW sales figures would look pretty bad now. On the contrary, Acura sales figures are looking better month after month. The gap between Acura and BMW is closing fast.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The interior picture appears to be that of Honda Edix (FR-V) not the Legend.

    The Japanese Legend will have an interior similar to the RL based on pictures posted from the same website (a Sep 1 news item).

    Honda has a minisite up for the Legend at its JDM website. Here is a link to it.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    The interior picture appears to be that of Honda Edix (FR-V) not the Legend.

    Hmm, you were right. After reading the translation carefully, it talks about the Inter-Nabi system that is/will be available in Edix and Legend. Thanks for the correction.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)<

    Different taste, that's for sure. Interesting!

    Has a little bit of an Infiniti interior feel -- does it not?
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)<

    news and pictures< (link)

    Can anyone hazard a guess as to which of the silver colors the above car is wearing? (You'll need to refer back to Ceric's post for the link).

    I like that color.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Honda has a minisite up for the Legend at its JDM website. Here is a link to it.<

    Interesting little video at the site. Notice the water theme at the end -- skimming over the darkened ocean?

    The new 2005 Acura RL catalog also has the sea -- water -- on the cover. There seems to be a theme emerging here. I wonder if it will reveal itself in an upcoming tv commercial. Speaking of which, shouldn't we be seeing some of the by now, or will we wait have to wait until the evening before the premiere -- October 14?

    Jeez, such suspense ... or maybe not.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>BTW, this has nothing to do with a car being worth at MSRP or not. Just a little fact, that some of us could use.

    Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make in my initial posting.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    To show how arbitrary a flat 10% off MSRP is, a few comparisons from Edmunds:

    BMW 7 - Base price $73,300-10% = %65,970 (Invoice $66,865).

    Mercedes C240 - Base price $33,850-10% = $30,465 (Invoice $31,481).

    Infiniti G35 - Base price $28,150-10% = $25,335 (Invoice $26,191).

    Lexus GX470 - Base price $45,375-10% = $40,837 (Invoice $39,474).

    So, for Lexus GX470, 10% off MSRP may work, for the other three I noted it very likely won't. I'm sure there are many other examples similar to either scenario above. Which just shows how arbitrary it is to just take 10% off MSRP.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    I am not sure 10% even makes sense as a rule of thumb.

    My last vehicle was purchased as a &#145;left over&#146; &#150; last one that suited me regarding optional equipment and color in the metro Atlanta area.

    The deal:
    list $41,860
    inv $38,357
    [diff ~ $3,000+]
    then current rebate $6,000
    price paid $32,200

    Now with a trade involved, the waters are a bit muddied, as always, but given the CarMax written offer - I believe that number is quite an accurate reflection of the price I paid &#150; and would have paid with a &#145;clean deal&#146;.

    My rather rusty math skills suggest that in this case: list $41,860 less 10% $4,186 = $37,674.

    And I would not pay that. (Just me.)

    But at $32K and change I believed (and still believe) that this was a &#145;flaming bargain&#146;.

    But &#150; that had A LOT to do with the fact that I really enjoyed driving that particular car.

    Just my $0.01860 worth.

    - Ray
    Wondering if there will even BE leftover RLs in a year+
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    yes, several honda & acura models in recent years have sold at msrp for 2+/3+ years. I dont mean that to be a short term luck in actuals, i meant it relative to the life of the dealership. 2/3 years of msrp sales for a dealer that's been around for 15 years is short term luck... relative speak.

    i agree with you varmint. market often decides the value. i almost bought a mdx at msrp, because 3rd year into the model and dealers demanded and still got msrp... of course the deal got nixed because wife refused to pick up the vehicle while i was traveling in europe for work... she went out and got a bmw 3 convertible instead... such is life.

    but personally, i'd rarely buy a car at msrp unless 3 years into the model you still find the car you find desireable is still selling at msrp due to "market reality"...

    damn luck ;)
    ksso
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ... **I REALLY need it!** ....

              I don't doubt that "you" need it and use it everyday and enjoy it .. but most of the buyers spend the extra $2,000+ for the novelty and think they will use it ...

                 Bimmer has had a nice Nav for years .. the funny part is, most have the original address locations and even some have the same from the second owner .. believe me, I'm not knocking them, whatever floats their boats .. I just get a giant kick from customers trading in their Acura's, Bimmers, Lexus, Audi's and they never use them .l.o.l...

                            Terry.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    When we lived in the phoenix, az metro area, i saw no real use to nav's - every road was cutting every other road at right angles, everything was a grid, life was a snap fit, you could not get lost if you wanted to (relative speak!).

    We are now living back in the north east, and when my wife is driving her 3 without a nav, she calls me on the phone for directions. I can't believe people like her with no direction sense (which i believe is about 70% of the driving population, but may represent only about 2% of people on this forum... hehehe) survive either coast with their senselessly twisted roads (relative speak!).

    I think state driving test should have a memory component on how quickly you learn a new street pattern, remember it and don't get lost. If you do badly on that or flunk it, the goverment should mandate a compulsory NAV in the cars that person is driving daily!
    lol ;)

    This is the broader argument of, if states or cities can ban cell phone usage while driving, they should basically ban other activities too, like eating or arguing with your partner, etc. since they are equally risky! Or simplistically just keep all moron's off the road, which in my opinion is about 90% of the broader driving population (which could represent about 1% of the townhall folks... geez.. now i'm going to get hammered here for my acute sarcasm!)

    oh btw, bmw nav's suck. so do mb. the only reason we got the 3 convertible without a nav was because it was really really sucky and convoluted to use. i personally like the iDrive, but then again, i might represent 0.01% of the broader population.

    ksso
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>When we lived in the phoenix, az metro area, i saw no real use to nav's - every road was cutting every other road at right angles, everything was a grid, life was a snap fit, you could not get lost if you wanted to (relative speak!).

    A friend moved to Phoenix three years ago. She is so directionally challenged she still uses her nav nearly every day. I have such a poor sense of direction that on cloudy days, and at night, it's very easy for me to get lost.

    Memorizing a street pattern is fine (if there is a pattern). I live in the Northern Virginia area. I know people who've lived here for years who still get lost. We have so many streets that stop and start, change names, go at diagonals, etc., that it is very difficult to memorize more than major streets and some very commonly traveled areas.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The navigation system in the RL goes beyond providing basic directions to an address, however. I&#146;ve a feeling that it once again sets a benchmark in providing conveniences (including Real Time Traffic Information and &#147;Acura Link&#148;), and with as many voice commands as it has, things couldn&#146;t be easier. While spending some time at the interactive showroom at acura&#146;s website, I noticed that during use, the screen even displays how to use the jog dial to accomplish a certain task. Small thing, but often overlooked.
  • ksomanksoman Member Posts: 683
    Thought I don't own any acura, i'd place the Acura Nav's as one of the best, if not the best one's out there. Their decision to put that on the TL in 99 was a big step in the near luxury or luxury class. TL's cheap NAV in my opinion changed the industry & consumer perception.

    ksso
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    From the showroom demo it appears that the new Nav does not do touch screen but you have to use the big dial. Is that right? Dial is fine but I usre hate to lose touch screen function.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Member Posts: 341
    >>From the showroom demo it appears that the new Nav does not do touch screen but you have to use the big dial. Is that right? Dial is fine but I usre hate to lose touch screen function.

    With the voice activation feature of the new Nav system, I doubt you'll miss the touch screen function very much.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    at the grocery store. . .most folks don't haggle over the price of something. It is almost something that many would just not dream of, not ever try.

    The same is true at department stores and hardware stores. Certainly it is true as gas stations.

    Sure, but they're missing out if they fail to do so on major purchases!! I am negotiation-averse, but when I purchase a big appliance or several at a time from a hardware or department store, I always bargain. Not vehemently, but I make an offer just like I would at the car dealership... "if you take $100 off the washer/dryer pair, I'll buy them right here and now." I've never had a single salesperson seem put off, and I've always gotten a discount of some sort that way.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    My point exactly! But to underscore the point and to ask a rhetorical question, do we plain just think that cars are "overpriced?"

    Cars (and houses) seem to be almost the universal "thing" that we disdain paying MSRP for.

    Even though I know it works, I usually don't haggle when I buy a pair of pants -- but just for fun I do haggle once in a while. Rarely do I feel that such behavior is appropriate.

    Maybe it is the price of the item, maybe it is that we think the "system" of car acquisition is rigged against us.

    Frankly, the savings on clothing (as a percentage) are far far more than the savings (and exceptions do happen, I'll gran) you can typically get on a car. Over a lifetime of buying, then, we should "never pay" retail for most items (gasoline and prescription drugs being two notable exceptions).

    I bought a suit a month ago, I was able to pay less than the tag and I got a "free" tie (which had an MSRP of $45). So I walked out of the store with almost $500 worth (?) of stuff for $400 including tax!

    I was just feeling a bit fiesty -- but the sales person was very willing to "take my money" even though I was unwilling to pay the amount on the tag.

    Cars and those of us who buy them just seem to be full of distrust -- in that we seem to think MSRP is "unfair."

    I wondered, out loud, how it got that way "I won't pay retail!" says one poster -- I wondered if he/she paid retail for other things.

    It was, as you would say, off topic. But I always believe that if I am happy with my purhcase at the price I paid, I don't really need or appreciate someone saying "you bozo, you paid retail -- I'd never pay retail!" or words to that effect.

    Somewhere, sometime, someone will write an article on our "comfort" in paying the asking price or negotiating. My experience is that most people just don't like to negotiate.

    "I can get it for you wholesale!"
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    Mark:

    Imagine going to Grand Union and getting the MSRP of a package of Purdue chicken, then getting the invoice price from Consumers Reports and striking a deal with the store manager! LOL!

    I agree with Kirstie. It's implicit that big ticket item prices may be negotiated without offending, but, I must add, as well, that on big-ticket dental work such as bridges, I do ask for mercy and usually get a 15% discount! I fully expect, and don't object, to paying MSRP for the new RL. I waited too long to resume another wait.
  • formulaformula Member Posts: 17
    The key issue on MSRP and how much of it you will need to pay is time. If you want the car now, you will pay MSRP, or close to it. If you wait until the end of the model year, you can get discounts, but you are buying a car with effectively 1 year of depreciation built in.

    The following is a link to a video that explains why it is often better to pay the high price at the beginning of the year rather than wait. The guy that is speaking is 001 from Autospies.

    http://cctvimedia.clearchannel.com/xetv/video/8-6-autospies.wmv
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    People should remember that there have been some vehicles which even Edmunds deemed to have a TMV higher than MSRP. The most notable in recent years is the Honda Odyssey, which dealers often added ADM of several thousands. This held for over 3-4 years. I had no trouble paying MSRP for mine in 2001.

    My Odyssey EX was priced at $26.8K MSRP and had more features than the Toyota Siena XLE of that time at $28K+.

    I wouldn't presume to put the 2005 RL in that category just yet, but I remember my sister looking at a 2004 BMW 525i last December. The $39K base price ballooned to $48K with the addition of a few option packages like automatic transmission ($1250), upgraded tire/rims, and leather and other luxury appointments. With the inane I-drive as a "deal-breaker" and the 184 hp output, no wonder the '04 Acura TL won the day at $34K.

    The Lexus LS430 at $54K? That's just a fantasy. Maybe a well-traveled "demo," but not "new." No price wars in my area as there's only one dealer (as is Acura) - the nearest "competitor" is 2500 miles away.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Great video!

    I have almost always purchased in the first 6 months of the "new year." This video gave me reason to continue.

    It almost seems counter intuitive though!
  • autophileautophile Member Posts: 14
    "The Lexus LS430 at $54K? That's just a fantasy"
    I had a quote from a Lexus dealer for a new Lexus with a Premium pkg and Smart Access for $54,528, and that was before any negotiation. I suspect I could have gotten the $528 shaved off if I said I was ready to write the check right then.
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Well, goody for you. You should have written that check instead of waiting to get another $528 (1.0%) off.

    Maybe it's aged stock. Or, an unpopular color. It may have been sold out from under you since then.

    Like I said, in my neck of the woods, only one dealer. And, they don't DEAL on "new" units. Only on demos and service loaners.
  • cericceric Member Posts: 1,092
    Well, actually I just priced it in northern CA for the 2004 LS430 (prem + smart access) = $55253 (fair market price). Invoice at around $50,000. MSRP at $58K+. An offer at $54K is entirely possible. But, I am talking about 2004 model here. Were you?

    Back to RL:
    Legend is released today in Japan. A lot of news on
    http://response.jp.
    You may use worldlingo.com to browse the whole site in "machine translated" English.

    The key news I found.
    Honda is projecting
    6000 units in Japan (1000 units already claimed for).
    20,000 units in USA. RL is to be released on the 14th in USA.
  • carnutcpacarnutcpa Member Posts: 11
    Here's the justification for knocking down the MSRP(emphasis on suggested): Assuming dealer cost of 10% less than MSRP on a $50k car, and the dealer only has the car in inventory(and thus a bank carrying loan) for 3 days--the dealer is making a whopping 1,366% ANNUALIZED return on his investment(ignoring his overhead costs). Change the scenario to 30 days in inventory, and the ANNUALIZED return drops, but is STILL 137%! Now: change the mark-up profit on dealer cost to, say, $1,500. The ANNUALIZED returns on the respective examples above are STILL 410% and 41%, respectively. The large volume discounting dealers understand the dynamics of this math, and that's why they keep getting BIGGER! It's simple inventory logistics of "turns". I don't know about you, but I don't make anywhere NEAR that type of return on any of my investments--and I don't intend to help anyone else achieve it, either!
  • autophileautophile Member Posts: 14
    "I'm talking about a 2004"
    Yes, this was in May for a 2004 that they would get in the color combo I wanted via dealer trade (so, not demo, unpopular color, etc.). I didn't do the deal because I just wasn't sure I wanted a LS430 with RWD in Michigan. We've had RWD and AWD vehicles and the next car we get will have AWD.

    The Grand Rapids Acura dealer has presold the first 7 RL's they will get and has started a "waiting list".
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    Well, we don't have the kind of weather that will make the RWD vs. AWD discussion that critical. But, it would sure feel great to be driving the AWD-equipped RL - nothing like being up-to-date as far as technology goes. I'd definitely pick the '05 RL over the '04 LS430.

    That Grand Rapids dealer will deservedly make a lot of "coin" on those pre-sold RLs. The way I see it, the RL is a hell of a lot of car for $50K. There's a lot of "balance" in the make-up of the car. Honda has been known for that all these years. They don't always have the huskiest-sounding engine, the most HP, the quietest interior, the best MPG, handling and riding dynamics, etc., but seem to be near the top in all categories. Throw in the inoffensive though non-inspired (to some) styling and you've got a winning combination
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Yes, I'm still suffering from a color conundrum! I talked to a dealer in Georgia who said that the Opulent Blue Pearl was a "gorgeous" color - almost black in appearance. Have any of you guys seen it? Your thoughts?
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    I'll be honest, i'm not a honda/acura fan. I do envy the quality, craftmenship that go into these cars, but i despise their lack value for the price or extra price for name tag philosophy.

    But this is a serious car the RL. My friends dad ordered it and i got to ride in it on a test drive at the dealers, and i was truly amazed. With the TL theres this little stuggle off the line, and you just know this. But this car with its revolutionary AWD, this aint a problem no more. I think basically this AWD put this car and future Acura cars on the map.

    This car is twice the interior, refinement, gadetary, design the TL is, and the TL already is very good at those department, with some speaking that its overall a notch better compared to the likes of BMW 3 series or Audi A4. So with this i believe this car the RL will have orders more than they are capable of making them.

    This car is relatively cheaper than the 330i and 5 series, but the best part is, its somewhere in between it.

    I thought all along acura would finally build all their sedans RWD(like s2000), but they went beyond with this AWD add on.
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >I don't know about you, but I don't make anywhere NEAR that type of return on any of my investments--and I don't intend to help anyone else achieve it, either!<

    A very adroit analysis, the conclusion of which echoes my sentiments exactly.

    Having said that, it may be that the new RL will command full MSRP for many months to come.

    I will be eager to hear car buyer's reactions when the car goes on sale NEXT WEEK!
  • legendmanlegendman Member Posts: 362
    >Cars (and houses) seem to be almost the universal "thing" that we disdain paying MSRP for.<

    That's true Mark. In fact, one gets bragging rights in some circles if you got a healthy discount on your car. On the other hand, here in the California housing market some are paying over asking price in order to seal the deal.

    >Even though I know it works, I usually don't haggle when I buy a pair of pants -- but just for fun I do haggle once in a while. <

    That's the point. It is fun. Anyone who's been to a garage sale or a flea market knows that's half the fun of going ... gettting that bargain.

    There are merchants around the world who fully expect to haggle ... and don't hold it against you. As long as there's something in it for them, most will bargain with you with a wry smile on their face.

    I have found that car dealers usually will bargain when it serves them to do so -- clearly supply, demand, sales goals and timing have a lot to do with it.

    As I said in the previous post, MSRP may be the price of the new RL for a while, or a long while. But I will still test the waters. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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