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Comments
Apparently, they call the accessories "port-installed". In fact, when the dealers got the cars, those accessories are on them already. My salesman called me today to "correct" what he had said. "there are $1250 worth of accessory on that RL.... is that OK with you?"
I just made him the final offer to hold him onto his words. I demanded the "wood steering wheel" and "floor mats + trunk tray" be included at MSRP. That is what I was promised at the test drive.
My guess is that they would gladly return my $500 deposit. When was the last time a salesman keep his/her promise?
Are you serious? You'll get creamed. And what the dealer offers will be even less than private party.
What did you pay for the new TL and what does Edmunds say its worth now? Dealer and private party?
That said, I take delivery of my black/black on Tuesday evening
For those who complain about the lack of a V-8, just go over to M-B, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. and BUY those cars. The rest of us are happy with the prospects of a 300 hp V-6 and don't need to hear your complaints anymore. It's getting OLD!
Another thing, I don't go on the Lexus board to rag on about their ES-series being glorified Camrys. Accords and Camrys have nothing to apologize for.
I saw several comments about dealer markups and dealer installed "options". I paid full MSRP, but no more. My dealer offers a number of add-on options, several of which I plan to get, but all were truly options. I was prepared to walk away from the car if I had to pay anything over MSRP, even if it included some options. Fortunately, my dealer played fair. I think any dealer who does other than what my dealer did is being truly short sighted.
I just don't get the comments on here about not enough power. Are you planning to race it?? As I said in a previous post, I haven't maxed it out, but for entering freeways, passing, etc., it has more than enough power.
BTW, was driving it this morning and discovered a cool feature. It was not possible for the driver to safely program an address on the navi on my 99 RL. I decided to program a couple of addresses this morning while stopped at various stoplights along the way. I quickly discovered that you can safely program an address while driving - a voice reads you all the options and reads your choices as you rotate the joy stick, which you can then select without ever looking at the screen. Really cool since I quite often drive alone.
I should be picking one up this week, after I get a chance to confirm what I already feel about the car. I currently have a 2002 TL Navi and I feel that my power is adequate now, could the 2004 RL feel worse? I doubt it! But, I'm not looking to drag race, yet I've been known to have a heavy foot now and again....so it gets me where I need to go.
If 2005 RL owners can provide their testimony about their driving experiences (like nebraskaguy) I would love to hear your honest comments.
For others, if you've driven the car and it really feels to slow, were you just checking the car out or are you really interested in acquiring the new RL? If it's slow (slow is relative to what other vehicles),what do you drive now?
Thanks for any insight!
The interior looks great, too... the metal center control unit blends in to the rest of the dash far better than it appeared to in pictures.
It's not in my budget, but I can always dream.
From a pricing perspective, Cda also appears to be relatively more expensive. If you compare MSRP and add in freight/destination charges and calculate the exchange rate at 0.78 which is a little lower than prevailing, you get a whopping $5,700 US or $7,300 Cdn difference - meaning a comparable less equipped RL will cost significantly more in Cda. If you compare TL pricing after exchange rates, there is virtually no difference now looking at new 05 prices.
In Cda of course, as bobble mentioned, you need to tack on additional sales taxes in the 15% plus range.
So all in all, it looks like those cooling leather seats are a pretty pricey addition!!!
I currently drive a 99 TL which I have really been happy with. I have driven on several occassions a 2004 TL, as well as 2002 Type-S flavor. The RL is very much a different drive, though I wouldn't say "completely" or "amazingly better"; but definitely better. Power is very good, though if you're comparing it to a V8 (BMW 540i, Audi A6 4.2, etc.) you might not be as satisfied. But to me, the RL not only is fine in the power department, but smoother, and quicker, than the current TL and the 2005 BMW 530i I tested two hours earlier.
The handling was precise and braking was excellent (if you've ever driven on Central Park Ave on a Saturday evening, you'll know how much braking you do). Taking the car off the main drag and on to some side streets allowed me to get a better feel for the car's ability take corners; at first I didn't push it, but at the urging of the sales guy sitting next to me, I pushed into corners with greater speed - the car stuck to the road and I came out of each corner with a big grin on my face. It is cool to watch the real-time display of the power distribution to the front to rear wheels as you gun it (of course, don't look at it as you're taking that corner at high speed). How did it feel compared to the BMW 5 I tested earlier? The BMW certainly can hold its own in any cornering test, but what really surprised me about the BMW was not its handling, but the power - even before I test drove the RL I felt the BMW was under powered (keep in mind, this was the 6 and not 8 cylinder model). Of course, I'm not saying the BMW is any slouch, but I remember thinking during the test drive, "this is the ultimate driving machine?"...
Interior-wise the RL is a sight to be seen. Now, I work with technology/computers for a living, so I was in heaven as soon as I sat down and saw all the gadgets! Others might be intimidated or put off by the technology, but I found all the buttons and menus pretty much right where I naturally first looked or reached for them. Compared to the BMW's iDrive... heck, I can't even think of an analogy... I'll just say, for an engineer who has designed these kinds of systems (both hardware and software) for over ten years, I was even frustrated with BMW's iDrive. The RL interface was much easier to use. Granted, there's probably at least 8 times the features that my current car offers, so it will take some time getting used to everything. And I'll have to get used to not being able to use the touch screen to enter in an address, but I suspect the voice recognition will help out a great deal here. I strongly believe the Acura engineers did their homework (i.e. human factors engineering, surveys, usability, etc.) in designing the dashboard layout and the computer system interface. The seats felt wonderful and for me, I immediately felt "right at home" in the car, which I think is very important when spending this kind of money.
So bottom line was that I put down a $250 deposit with the promise that they would do their best to get me the car in my color choice in the next two to three weeks. But from what they showed me of their inventory, they do have quite a few RLs coming in the next few weeks, which according to my sales guy, haven't been sold yet. I saw a lot of Silver with ebony interiors, which I'm not interested in. The car they had on the lot which I could have bought that day, which I test drove, was white with ebony interior. Wouldn't suprise me if it was sold after I got out from my test drive - so many people looking to test drive that car.
Oh, and if you're looking for RL brochures, don't even ask. I think Acura does the same thing with their brochures as their cars -- only releases a few to ensure peak demand. Every dealer I went to said they had none; all given out. I think dealers should keep a few in reserve for those who actually do put down a deposit and intend to buy a car, rather than just giving one out to anyone who just walks in and says "just give me a couple of them", cuz you know they're gonna end up on eBay
I think the Black should be offered with Taupe interior too; it would be a nice combination!
Lease on the A6 with 2,500 down, 18K miles, 39 mos was $854 per month, money factor .0220. Lease on the RL with $2,500 down, 15K miles was $890 per month. I think the money factor was .0245.
I'd rather get the RL. Better dash, electronics, reliability. However, the A6 has a more back seat legroom and a huge trunk. I personally never go 0-60 in 6 or seconds so performance in either car is less important to me.
Anyone else have any experience with leasing the new RL?
I am tired of the over-priced Mercedes-Benz cars. I owned a 1993 Acura Legend and it was a great car. My son owned a 1994 Acura Integra, had it for 9 years and repairs were few and far between.
Also, Mercedes is no longer paying for scheduled maintenance starting with the 2005 year models. I live in the Northern part of the country, so want AWD. That left out the BMW 5 series, so I looked at the new Audi A6. I can't justify the extra money for that car. Also the new A6 doesn't have any kind of Onstar or Tele-aid service. The sales rep gave me some goofy story about the fact that you couldn't have Bluetooth compatibility and Onstar or Tele-aid on a car.
So, I have put down a deposit on the RL. Drove one last Friday and it is a beautiful car. I wish the exterior was a little more distinctive, but then I don't consider the styling of the BMW or Audi A6 or Mercedes E320 very distinctive either. The leather in the RL is much nicer than the standard leather on the E320. The technology is incredible. I do wish that Acura had put some wood on the shift console portion of their car. It would have looked much richer, in my opinion.
This seems to me to be an incredible car for the price!
Lynnminny
Thanks.
I just don't get the comments on here about not enough power. Are you planning to race it?? As I said in a previous post, I haven't maxed it out, but for entering freeways, passing, etc., it has more than enough power.
BTW, was driving it this morning and discovered a cool feature. It was not possible for the driver to safely program an address on the navi on my 99 RL. I decided to program a couple of addresses this morning while stopped at various stoplights along the way. I quickly discovered that you can safely program an address while driving - a voice reads you all the options and reads your choices as you rotate the joy stick, which you can then select without ever looking at the screen. Really cool since I quite often drive alone.
I think that the 18 inch wheels look much better than the standard wheels. While they are expensive, it's a good way to make it look more distincitve, especially from the side profile (where it's needed the most.)
Do you know when the first RLs will be available for sale in Canada?
All in all the RL is a great ride. Acura really nailed the interior of the car and really conveys a sense of luxury. I would definitely opt for the wood steering week as it compliments the interior. What really surprised me was the space in the cabin for front passengers. The car felt large compared to my '01 A6. The ride as smooth as silk and while the car is not going to win any 0-60 times the power delivery was constant and without any highs or lows.
The other thing was the amount of customization you can do with the car and the information the car conveys to you. While all luxury cars today are doing things behind the scenes with power delivery, etc.. Acura allows you to see what is happening with the SH-AWD torque MID. I really like the overall delivery of the technology within the Acura. Acura did a great job of blending the technology within the car and not making things to complicated like BMW (I-drive) and Audi (MMI). The car is perfectly happy not making you drill into menus to do stuff.
The stereo was fantastic along with the GPS. However, my dealer couldn't figure out how to show the real time traffic which disappointed me.
Having said that here are my negative comments.
First and foremost not having a height adjustment on the passenger seat might be a deal breaker for me. If you have a significant other please make sure they sit in the car before you pull the trigger. My girlfriend is only 5'3" and she said she felt like she was only looking at the hood of the car.
While the power delivery was constant I would have liked to see another 20-30 foot pound of torque. I'm betting that a V-6 Accord would give the RL a run for its money and while 0-60 is not the most important thing for the RL (more the TL's niche) if Acura wants to compete with the big boys (Merc, BMW, Audi) who all have V-8s as well as the newcomers (Cadi STS and Infiniti M) they need to gimme a few more HPs...
Lastly the exterior was a bit dull. Nothing against it, but after seeing the TL and the aggressiveness of that design I hoped that Acura would have kicked it up a notch. With the current BMW 5 Series and the new Audi A6 say what you what the designs, but I give them credit for trying to spice up the market place.
All in all and great effort by Acura. I've ruled out the Merc E320 due to reliability issues and pricing (option the E320 out like the RL and your over $60K), but the Audi is nearly the same price so its a dead heat right now.
If only Acura made the passenger seat height adjustable....
But the mark up on the extra's was far above, $950 just to ungrade to wood trim steering wheel.
Beautiful car inside. Back seat room is small. Could not look straight out the back window, without bending my head. Did not test drive at this price point. Can buy a new 2005 LS430 for $52K (w/o Nav). Still remember all the late 90's BMW's and Merc with built in analog phones that now are useless and eye sores. Who knows what the Technology on Nav's will be in 5 years.
For the price I would go with the Lexus.
V8, rear wheel drive, 6 speed transmission, free loaner cars and car wash.
V8, rear wheel drive, 6 speed transmission, free loaner cars and car wash.
Last time I checked, all Acura dealers in my city provides free loaner cars. Car wash? No thanks. I never let my cars washed by machines. I always tell dealers not to wash my cars. Vacuum, yes. You should probably care more about Acura's poor powertrain warranty, though, compared with others' (especially, an RL with SH-AWD)
I have decided to wait till M and GS come out and make decision. For now, RL is expensive due to initial frenzy. An RL at $46K would be reasonable price considering all pros and cons. The price would drop in March/2005 when M and GS come out.
Unless you need a V8 or a stick, the RL will be the car to beat for a while. AWD enhances it's appeal. NAV is state-of-the-art. Price is reasonable with 300HP. Interior has some bling-bling. It doesn't blow you away, but it does everything well. Non-offensive, few weaknesses. The ultimate Honda. TRunk is small doh!
DrFill
And, I am thinking about the new 300c with hemi in it that costs only around $42,000 full loaded.
If the new Corvette has good quality, I might get a Vette instead for that 400 hps and 400 ft-lb of torque with Z51 package. It will only cost around $47,000.
Or, if I go postal, I might lease the new M5 and I am pretty sure I will be very very happy with the performance department for a long time.
Decision, decision, and decision.
To date, I have driven the '05 A6 4.2 twice. The dealers in Baltimore do not have any 3.2 engine models to drive at this point. The new A6 is very nice, BUT, I think they blew it on the interior. Not as nice (IMO) as the older generation A6 and not as nice as the new RL. Less wood than before, and the plastic trim looks cheap. And, while the V8 has lots of power and torque, I wonder how the V6 is given the added weight of the new car.
The Acrua dealer did not have a demo car for the RL, but I got to sit in one and play with all the toys. Then, I switched seats with my son, and sat in the passenger seat. The first thing I did was reached for the seat control to raise the seat up, but, guess what - no height adjustment. I agree with you Monet, a major flaw. I'm 5'11'' and would have liked it up higher.
Monet - given that you had a chance to drive both the Audi 3.2 and RL - how did they compare. Is the Acura ride more like the Audi and BMW - ie emphasis on handling over comfort, or is it still more like a Lexus ride - comfort over sport? How did the power compare between the two cars? The new A6 is 255 HP, vs 300 HP for the RL. For that matter, how does the RL compare with your 2.7t. While there is nothing like a V8, given where the price of gas is headed, I'm looking mainly at 6s - the 530i, the A6 3.2, the RL, etc.
Thanks.
Steve
As to when a car will be available to me I don't really know. This is my first experience with Curry so I don't know if the "2 to 3 weeks" response was just to get my commitment to purchase from them, or if they really can deliver in that time frame. We'll see. I will say that others have spoken very highly of Curry, so my hope is that I will have an RL in my garage in the next month.
I've longed for a car that had the luxury/space of Lexus, the performance handling of BMW, the gorgeous looks of the Mercedes S Class, and the reliability of the Acura. Oh, and give me every technology that exists. That's asking for a miracle! Well, then the '05 RL arrived, and it seemed to "mostly" meet MY eye's criteria! I'm an everyday guy with a "reasonable" appreciation for a Sports/Luxury Sedan. Then, I spent nearly 5 hours with it...
While, for me, the car is:
-Luxurious.
-Gorgeous inside and out, in person.
-Has solid power and handling.
-Obvious Honda/Acura quality/reliability.
-a techno-wizards dream come true.
-an amazing update to it's ever-beloved grandfather, the 2nd generation Legend(I've owned a 1991)...
Everyday rush hour driving/drivers will:
-NOT truly appreciate SH-AWD, especially in the twenty largest markets whose freeways go slow on a good day. This will be utilized on mountain roads, snowy climates, or race tracks. We're not Europe/autobahn, you know.
-NOT, for now, receive Real-time traffic info, unless you're in those 20 largest markets.
**(These are the two "big" updates against the competition driving the initial hype/demand/price.)
My disappointments:
-Interior spaciousness(it's virtually no larger in stats, or feel, from the TL--just slightly wider). HOWEVER, it handles every bit as well/better, but with the addition of a Luxury ride.
-Any up-front savings over the competition is generally lost in increased depreciation during the first 3-4 years (pay me now, or pay me later).
-I think it's demographic is 35-45, chasing more of the older clientele to Lexus--many won't utilize/will be overwhelmed by the technology(even though easy to use!), and will focus on Luxury and status. Techies younger than 35 generally can't afford it.
-Acura VP flubbed in NY by announcing car to be priced well under $50K. Message boards and Magazine/Press feedback must have gotten him greedy. That's a tough spot, when you still have a ways to go in Lexus/BMW/Mercedes "prestige factor" for this price category(irrelevant to me, but I'm an anomaly).
Should you buy the '05 RL at full sticker versus other alternatives? Probably, if you must have the latest and greatest RIGHT NOW and don't mind experiencing additional loss in value. However, you'll have to drive and experience it for yourself to decide. It's your money!
P.S. I do NOT work for Lexus, and I'm NOT trolling! I'm an avid Honda/Acura fan who simply allowed himself to get all hyped up over the past 7 months, simply to be...slightly disappointed.
Just my impressions fwiw.
LIY
Steve
I too am also looking at the Infiniti M45 and the new Lexus GS model as alternatives. I want to keep in the range of 50 to 55k and not much higher.
I want much of what the RL has and some it doesn't, including a more luxurious back seat area.
In general, I liked the handling and ride and the quiet as well as the awesome electronics. We listened to the DVD-A Acura Demo disc in the showroom car and it was incredible. The surround sound was like being in a movie theater. However, there are some pretty big omissions or shortcomings that Acura really should address ASAP.
The lack of tilt/height adjustment on the front passenger seat is pretty unforgivable. I'm 6'1" and really need some control of seat height. Second, the rear seat head room is unacceptable for me. If i sat upright, not slouched with my hips slid forward some, i was hitting the ceiling. Probably i was about 1/2" short on clearance minimum. Otherwise the back seat was really nice. It's disappointing to have a few shortcomings like this spoil for me an otherwise outstanding car.
My feeling is that i'm leaning toward the M45 because it has nearly all of the features i want that the RL has left out: more functional and adjustable front and rear seats to name a few.
I feel sure that Acura will address some of these shortcomings later in the year or for the next model year, as most are easily fixed. The car is wonderful in any case and if you can get it at a discount in the coming months, should represent an excellent value.
This car puts Acura back in the hunt.
The Audi, on the other hand, is spirited. Even with being only 255hp its torque is close to the Acura and its 200lbs lighter. Whereas the Acura is more a Lexus, the Audi is more a BMW (again this is a compliment to both cars). The Audi flatters you. No mater what angle you take with the car it goes where you want it and make you think it was all you - the driver - that made it work. I found MMI /Stereo not nearly as good as the Acura, but on the other hand the interior was better overall to the Acura (German vs. Japanese approach). You have to want to be involved in the car to drive it. MMI is something that you have to deal with and while I only spent 5 minutes with it I was confused. Whereas the Acura's interface I never got lost in
Neither the Audi (3.2) or the Acura was as fast as my Audi 2.7T. Once my turbos come online the car takes off like a rocket. That will be missed on either car, but from a 0-60 point of view I suspect both cars will be neck-in-neck. Compared to my 2.7T both cars are much more quiet, but the edge goes to Acura. The Audi had the 18" wheels and the Acura had the 17". Not sure what the Acura would be like with the 18"s.
At this point I'm really torn. I have deposits on both.... Its that darn lack of passenger height adjustment on the Acura that kills me. But then again do I trust a first year Audi model to be problem free.... I remember the 2000 A6 2.7T and all the issues with that model.
Steve
But to answer your question, no, I don't have any pricing and lease info for the RL. I'm sort of in the same position as you in that I think the RL is a bit above my budget. Plus, my TL is only 4 months old. So I have not been seriously investigating the RL, and haven't spoken to my sales reps on it. Later on, if they can arrange a test drive for me even knowing that I'm not serious, I'll do that just to see what it drives like.
I also wish I wasn't in a rush to get a new car, as I believe the A6 and RL will both be discounted by next spring and will probably offer some decent lease deals. Did the A6 have the sports package? If so, just remember that those summer low profile tires aren't going to make it through the snow, in which case you'll need new tires (and probably wheels) for winter use.
Steve
Acura uses machine-wash? Is that standard? I know Lexus uses only hand-wash in my area (SF/BA).
Good luck to you!
LIY
LIY
RL's dash is much superior IMO. Better Nav, there are presets on the dash for the radio without having to go through the nav controller on the A6. I like the location of the Nav controller on the RL vs the A6. It's closer to the display so one can look at both while driving. Audi has the CD changer in the glove compartment, taking up valuable space.
I've also had an A6 2.7 for the past 3 years that has constantly had something wrong with it.
I suspect I'll be able to buy a height adjustment for passenger seat soon.
Lease on the RL was:
MSRP
18K miles, 42 months
Money factor .00255
Residual $24,179, 51%
For extra 3K miles per year $1,050 vs 15K miles
Payment $789 plus Mass tax
Only first month lease payment and fees $1,652 out of pocket
I priced another dealer and it was within $10 monthly.
Dealer is a friend and said that he did not anticipate lower money factors, higher residuals or MSRP discounts because the car is sold out.
Overall the fit and finish, quality of the materials and ergonomics are great in the new Acura. That said, I do not like the lack of automatic headlights and the previously pointed out lack of height adjustment of the passenger seat. The latter was immediately brought to my attention by the height challenged Mrs. Carnaught. More annoying to me is that after three months, the cabin is plagued with numerous squeaks and rattles. This is something that would bother me less in a BMW than in the more luxury designed ride of the Acura. These were not problems in any of the six Lexus' I've owned.
How do the new/perspective owners feel with regard to these issues?
BTW, I have the wood wheel and shifter on my TL, both real wood and a great match to the other wood in the car.
I would be surprised if the wood used was not the same as the rest of the vehicle's wood trim. The Brochure certainly doesn't suggest that any of the wood is simulated for the steering wheel and shift knob. It looked like a perfect match. The steering wheel, in fact, was kinda like a "sport" wheel, as it had colored stitching in the leather as well. It was really cool.
The wood shift knob had a the Acura logo imprinted on the top of it too. Very classy.
A second dissapointment -- Acura cheaped out by not putting wood on the floor mounted center console. This looks especially cheap on the light colored interior.
The price, as others have noted, is off-putting and gives one pause as to the valuue equation as compared to Lexus. My guess is that the RL full sticker price will not hold much beyond the end of this year, and certainly not beyond the launch of Infiniti's new M and Lexus' new G in Spring 2006. By then the dealers will be selling below MSRP. Anyway, that's my view into the crystal ball.