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Acura RL

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Comments

  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    So um, yeah... the numbers I quoted were from two sources... MT and C&D magazines. I did not simply "guess" about the numbers based on something I may have read in the past. Appears R&T has even different numbers from these mags, so who is right/wrong? Variances are from professional drivers who have driven and tested all of these vehicles.

     

    If you would like to debate the nature of BMW as the benchmark for performance sedans, knock yourself out! The issue is not whether the RL is a good piece, but whether it is truly ready to compete as a performance benchmark in its class. I'm afraid that a little time is needed for Acura/Honda to sort out the platform issues (SH-AWD) that now plague this 1st-year car. Still, it is a fine auto, but just doesn't get MY juices flowing... just my personal opinion.

     

    If you'd like to sort out the discrepancies across these testing sources, please do...

     

    '05 Acura RL 70-0... 180 ft. - C&D Road Test

    '04 BMW 545 70-0... 156 ft. - C&D Road Test

    '04 BMW 530 60-0... 115 ft. - MT Road Test

    '04 BMW 545 60-0... 121 ft. - MT Road Test

    '05 Acura RL 60-0... 127 ft. - MT COY Test

    2004 530i 60-0...131 feet. 80-0...231 feet

    2005 RL 60-0...126 feet. 80-0...224 feet

     

    Certainly, tires, testing venue, driver, etc. all contribute to testing "numbers". What I rely on is cumulative data over time by mfgr... believe BMW has more than proven itself. Acura is finally getting there with a larger sport sedan, as the prior RL was a nice transportation appliance. Give it time... ;-)

     

    IMO, place these cars on the Nurburgring or similar circuit with professional drivers and then test the braking dynamics of these cars to sort out characteristics/differences. That would help to distinguish braking dynamics in these road cars. BTW, one class-leading attribute for the RL is its safety score... that is commendable.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Taking a few minutes here before the family arrives We have a lot to be thankful for on this 2004th Christmas.

     

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all of you forum readers and posters. and to you Shotgun...(read your Bio)..."Don't drink to much Cognac over the holidays...but if you do... you can always ride....you guessed it..."Shotgun"!
  • 2005rlowner2005rlowner Member Posts: 2
    I have a 05 RL and I live in Anchorage Alaska and I can tell you it handles wonderfully in the snow. I've never slid,skid or loss control if you live in the north the RL is a true thing of beauty.
  • patrick3patrick3 Member Posts: 31
    Like many of you that have been doing a lot of research on the different options of cars to choose from, I spent over three months reading reviews, test driving cars and reading the remarks across all the forum's I finally narrowed my search down to two cars..the 530i and RL. Both cars are outstanding and offer different sensations. I really enjoyed the ride & handling of the 530i, but thought the interior was somewhat cold and the styling was a little too bold for my liking. In the end, I choose the RL and have had the car for five days. One of the first things I did was drive it straight from the dealership to a local wheel outlet and switched the stock wheels/tires for Yokahama 255/40/19 sport tires with a 19" wheel. The new package does two things 1) give incredible handling without sacrificing the smoothness of the ride and 2) gives the car a fabulous look that really makes the car standout!

     

    Overall, knowing it's still very early in the new car relationship, I'm head over heals crazy over this car. There are so many things about this car that I'm learning about every day and still have much more to learn. For anyone on the fence regarding buying an RL..jump off the fence and run to your nearest Acura dealership. You will not be disappointed in your decision :0)
  • aclcaclc Member Posts: 20
    Did you replace the tires that came with the car or are they original equiment?
  • patrick3patrick3 Member Posts: 31
    I replaced the wheel/tire package that comes with the RL (Michelin 245/50/17)and received a $500 credit from the company I purchased the new wheels & tires from. If you've seen the prototype pictures of the RL when it first came out, that is the look you will get. The prototype had a 20" wheel which actually fits on the RL, but requires a 35" sidewall. When you get that narrow a sidewall, it starts to impact the feel of the ride. The 19" with the 40" profile looks outstanding and still keeps the integrity of the ride.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    To say that you will not be disappointed with a purchase of a new 2005 RL assumes, of course, that the RL you receive works and does not break down 10 miles from the dealership, and that if it does break down, that Acura/American Honda Motor Company has the parts available to fix it.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    And "Happy Holidays" to you Jjacura! Received a gift bottle of Martel Cognac "XO" - Needless to say, both myself (at home) and my Acura RL (on the road) have been, shall I say, "spirited" this holiday season...

     

    I've enjoyed this forum immensely and wish you all the best this holiday season...
  • acuraphileacuraphile Member Posts: 131
    "I've enjoyed this forum immensely and wish you all the best this holiday season..."

     

      I'd like to express my thanks and best wishes, as well. JJ, Shotgun, RobertSMX, et al...almost without exception, the posts have had a fraternal quality; really gratifying - and edifying.

       

     I guess that it's been five or six months since I signed on to this forum and I doubt that I missed many posts. It's been fun watching the bonding progress - and the friendships blossom.

    Heady stuff, considering the general bleakness outside these pages.

      My wife and I drove out to Montauk the other day and put on 200 miles. Our Lakeshore Luxo ran like a dream...nary a problem. The Gershwin "Concerto in F" came pouring out of the speakers with such great presence and the 300 HP made passing a swift and secure maneuver.......

    octogenarians like "displacement" too! :-)

     

    Again, best wishes for a splendid New Year!
  • larry6larry6 Member Posts: 26
    Well...as long as we are getting sentimental..although I am not a very frequent contributor to the site, I am quite an avid follower of the experiences (both + and -) of the people who are interested in Acura 05 RL. I too especially appreciate the contributions of JJ, Acuraphile, Ivdh, Shotgun and others... who contribute to the site frequently. It's really quite amazing...that this medium provides owners of something heretofore rather difficult to achieve: communication among customers and potential customers. Heretofore, customers with problems...were only known to dealerships and manufacturers, whereas, sites such as Edmunds allows us to unite with common destiny. What do we seek -- nothing but to share information about a product we are interested in -- and -- to be treated fairly by the manufacturer with whom we entrusted our lives -- our cash -- and our enthusiasm for modern technology. Wishing you all good health -- and happy trails.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Well said larry. Information and knowledge are power.
  • rlownerrlowner Member Posts: 12
    after giving the nav system a three fingered salute (nav button, cancel button, menu button pressed all at the same time for 3 sec), and then selecting the navi diagnostic, the system tells me that the XM Hardware Interface Processor Electonic Control Unit is not functioning. That explains why nav traffic doesnt work and acuralink doesnt receive messages. dealer says he'll replace the HIP.ECU.

     

    on the plus side, the car handled EXTREMELY well in the pre-xmas ohio/indiana snow storm i had to traverse. no complaints on the SH-AWD.

     

    but in the below zero cold temps that followed, the driver side lock dimple stopped functioning for a time. like the navtraffic problem, several folks are now reporting this one and low temps appear to be more coincidence than cause. so be on the lookout for another fix from Acura soon.

     

    ahhhh, i just love software!
  • adam_kelleyadam_kelley Member Posts: 24
    LVDH, I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles and the total disregard for Napleton to address your issue in a serious manner. I really do hope you get relief soon.

     

    Let me say this first. Try to resolve this using the correct channels (i.e., Acura Customer Service, Napleton Owner, Honda America, etc.). If you don't get results here is what I suggest you do.

     

    Take out a full page advertisement in your local paper (the bigger distribution the better) and title it "An Open Letter to [Owner's Name], Owner, Napleton Acura and [President's Name], President, Honda America." and clearly state what has happened and what you expect them to do. If they don't respond to this then I have no idea what will get them to respond.

     

    I for one would donate to the cost of said ad.

     

    Since I'm not a lawyer, you might want to consult with one before doing this just to make sure you can't get sued for libel...

     

    Sorry if this might be a bit over the top, but I'm so tired of hearing about dealerships who just don't care or do the right thing - especially after they've got your money.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    dennis721,

     

    I appreciate your input and your generous offer to contribute to an advertisement.

     

    Acura Customer Service and American Honda Motor Co. have been notified of this problem essentially since day 1. A case file was opended by Acura Client Services and said matter was assigned to a case manager who has not been helpful or responsive. To date, neither Acura Customer Service nor American Honda Motor Co. have resolved this problem.

     

    As for a full page ad, although it would be wonderful to see such a print ad, it is really cost prohibitive. As for the legal issues regarding libel, truth is always an absolute 100% defense to the accusation of defamation (libel or slander).

     

    But what you say is not at all "a bit over the top". What is really over the top is as follows:

     

    1. A brand new 2005 Acura RL which I purchased on or about 12/15/04 broke down within 10 miles after taking delivery from Napleton Acura due the SH-AWD and VSA failing;

     

    2. Napleton's service department said "the battery was low";

     

    3. The vehicle then broke down a second time just a couple days later again due the SH-AWD and VSA failing;

     

    4. The vehicle has been in Acura's service department for 10 days since it was purchased 12 days ago;

     

    5. Acura cannot repair the vehicle because parts are not available;

     

    6. Neither Napleton, Acura/American Honda Motor Co. nor Acura Client Services have offered to replace the vehicle and have done absolutely nothing to resolve this problem;

     

    7. I'm paying principal and interest to American Honda Finance on a vehicle which I do not have possession of and cannot drive because Acura cannot repair it.

     

    That's over the top
  • jmatthejmatthe Member Posts: 51
    How are the roads where you live? In PA, even the stock tires and wheels ride fairly hard. There doesn't seem to be many wheels that fit the car yet. Did you find others as well? Assume you didn't like the 18" aspec wheels either.
  • reallegendreallegend Member Posts: 28
    lvdh,

     

    I recently took delivery of my RL, have driven over 250 miles, and luckily no issues. It's a great car, as long as you commit to understanding its new features and capabilities. But the manner with which this dealership and American Honda in general have responded to your problem, concerns us all. I expect any dealership to step up and do all it can in a situation like this. Having to wait nearly 30 days for parts is unacceptable "BS" in this day and age. Your car should be on worldwide alert with necessary parts there in 2-3 days via FedEx. In my business (large scale computers), we overnight parts with a "whatever it takes" attitude.

     

    This is an unacceptable situation none of us should have to experience. Although a newspaper ad has an immediate impact for the local readers and dealerships, I believe the power rests right here.

     

    I have read this forum since early September and have appreciated all the many comments and insights from its contributors. I knew I wanted the Acura RL since I've owned two prior Legends with a combined driving experience of over 455,000 miles - never a road failure or major issue. I never looked back at other car manufacturers because I've come to appreciate the Acura reliability and value. I would estimate that the vast majority of new '05 RL owners have had positive experiences with their new cars. But nothing in life is a guarantee and it appears that your car suffered some oversight in the manufacturing process.

     

    I would agree that they should replace the car immediately. Unfortunately, in the exercise of business, the approach is always to attempt a repair before replacement. But the delay in corrective action coupled with the lack of customer support rendered by the dealership and American Honda is totally unacceptable.

     

    Suggestive Action -

     

    Leverage this forum's RL participants in a communication campaign to American Honda specifically referencing your situation and case number so as to request a feedback assurance that this type of situation is not standard practice, will not occur for all new Acura RL customers, and that all of us as a group want to know that Acura (American Honda) is capable of supporting their products on an immediate and timely basis.

     

    I believe there are many of us on this forum who have purchased the RL and leverage this dialogue as a learning exercise, with rare occurrences of actually contributing. For the benefit of all of us, now is the time to exercise our power of communication. As was stated earlier, this forum has given us an ability to share experiences and thoughts that in prior years was never possible. Well it also gives us the ability is initiate change for the good of all of us. It starts with this issue.

     

    If the forum agrees with this approach and lvdh acknowledges as such, then lvdh should communicate the case number and any current information for us to act individually.

     

    American Honda needs to step up and correct this situation.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We can listen and we can make suggestions, but we can't embark on an official protest campaign on his/her behalf, nor can there be a "fundraising" effort, or anything else of that nature.

     

    I know you all want to help - the way to do that is to continue to offer suggestions of possible action. As I'm sure lvdh realizes, the forum may not be asked to campaign in that manner per the Membership Agreement (linked on the left side of the page).

     

    Instead, we'll keep the suggestions and the empathy coming and hope the situation works out for the best.

     

    There is something about which I am not clear, and maybe this was addressed earlier and I missed it - lvdh, do you have a lawyer or a consumer rep of some sort involved in this? Have you contacted your state BBB and/or an office of consumer affairs? You might want to think about that route if you haven't already.

     

    I wish you all the best in getting this resolved.
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    "... I'm afraid that a little time is needed for Acura/Honda to sort out the platform issues (SH-AWD) that now plague this 1st-year car..."

     

    Plague?!?! Thats a little strong my friend. The isolated problems encountered with the SH-AWD mechanism are far from being a "plague". Based on my personal experience, as an RL owner, and what the automotive media has to say about the new RL I would love nothing better than to see the RL compete with it's contemporaries on the Nuernburgring!

     

    Whereas credit is due to Mercedes, BMW, and Audi for their automotive engineering prowess, past performance, and history of reliability & quality - it appears to me, that like in so many other fields - auto manufacturers from the land of the Rising Sun are eclipsing their Teutonic rivals...
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Update from LVD.

     

    Still no response/answers from Acura/American Honda Motor Co and RL remains broken down and sitting in an Acura dealership's service department.

     

    Last Thursday I spoke to the assistant to the Executive VP of Automotive Operations at American Honda Motor Co. and she represented to me that someone from corporate would call me today (ie. Monday, 12/27/04). So far, I have not received the courtesy of a return call. So, I decided to follow-up myself, and I again called America Honda Motor Co. Inc.'s corporate headquarters in California and to my surprise a recorded message came on which essentially stated "the corporate offices are closed until January 3, 2005."

     

    This situation remains absolutely shocking and atrocious on the part of Napleton Acura, Acura/American Honda Motor Co.

     

    A date of January 3, 2005, will mean that almost 3 weeks will have elapsed since my RL broke down with 200 miles on it appears that my RL still will not be repaired come January 3, 2005.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    I see you have an FX and an RL. What made you get the RL instead of waiting for the new Infiniti M. Also which Vehicle do you like better. I have a little over a year left on my FX lease and have been very happy with it but thinking about going back to a sedan. I like the RL, M, 5 series and new GS. However there isn't much out right now that I would give up my FX for.
  • luvinmylexluvinmylex Member Posts: 5
    For the record, I have 1250 miles on my '05 RL (delivered on 11/20) and have had ZERO PROBLEMS. And if I ever do, I certainly won't broadcast it on every Acura forum on the internet because ultimately it can only discourage people from buying the car and (surprise!) bring the resale down. I will only discuss it if I feel the need to ask advice of other owners who may have experienced similar problems. Unfortunately, the "squeaky wheel" saying is all too true.

     

    And Acura is certainly not the only brand whose service departments aren't familiar with new models. My Lexus SC430 had horrible runflats that produced a teeth-jarring ride (check out the forums) and the dealer refused to acknowledge the problem. As a matter of fact, even when I replaced the runflats with non-runflats at my own expense the dealer didn't even know what to quote me for a spare tire kit.

     

    It seems that every Acura message board is now buzzing with "SH-AWD issues" because of a couple of owners who have had problems. I'm here to state that, from everything I've read, the VAST MAJORITY of '05 RL owners have had no problems and are very satisfied with their cars. No need to turn this into another "combustible Pinto" or "unintended Audi acceleration" story.
  • mcccclandmccccland Member Posts: 5
    When I purchased my 2004 Acura RL it was presented to me as a luxury vehicle. Nice drive, fully equipped, classic style, dependability without all the Lexus style hoopla and pricing.

     

    Now it seems that Acura has changed its approach and takes on a new direction. Emphasis on luxury gives way to sportiness. According to the Acura official, the pre-2005 Acura RL is a "couch-mobile". Acura also admits that "We tried the luxo approach, but, frankly, it just wasn't us", as per January issue of Road and Track magazine.

     

    While many companies in the past tried to change their image, none of them usually separated themselves from their prior models in the fashion Acura seems to be doing.

     

    Question to all: do you believe that the resale value of pre-2005 Acura RLs will be affected in any way by the new direction that Acura is taking with the 2005 RL?
  • shotgunshotgun Member Posts: 184
    Clpurnell - The RL, IMO, offers more and looks a little more elegant and leaner than the new Infiniti M. Of course the RL's promised reliability, SH-AWD and state-of-the-art technology appealed to me as well. For some reason, the new Infiniti M model looks a little "overweight" or "bloated" to me and the interior did not appeal to me as much as the RL's. In fairness to the "M", when I see it in the flesh it may look better since all I've seen were photographs which may not have done it justice. (The same was true for the RL - although the M's rear end, to me, leaves a lot to be desired)

     

    I bought the FX for my wife because, frankly, it's the best looking SUV out there (its a head turners for sure), has oodles of power, and performs almost like a true sports car. Although the FX is a "rough rider" its fun to drive - plus, my wife loves it! (as do I). Only complaint thus far is what appears to be premature tire wear - and those 20's are going to be expensive to replace. In any event, I highly recommend the FX35 - like you, I'm immensely pleased with it!

     

    Which do I like better - the RL or FX? The RL! Its a more civilized, refined, and comfortable ride which exceeds my FX when it comes to overall performance. Although I must admit...the FX is a little more fun to drive - I love the growl of the engine and the thumbs-up gestures I get from young people certifying my "He's got a cool ride" status!
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    I am truly happy that you have not experienced any problems with your RL and hope that you never do. However, without meaning to be disrepectful, consider the following:

     

    Do you think that this issue can or will be concealed from the general public merely because we should not discuss it?

     

    How do you think recalls ultimately occur?

     

    How do you know that the vast majority of owners have had no problems?

     

    Do you know, or have you had direct contact with, the the vast majority of owners?

     

    In light of that thousands of RL's have been sold, aren't there just a handful of concerned owners writing about this issue?

     

    What's to say you won't experience problems 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, etc, from now?

     

    Wouldn't you want this issue dealt with and corrected ASAP - isn't that in all RL owners interets?

     

    Don't you think your comments are just a little selfish?

     

    It very easy to say what you say and look the other way, when you are not one of those owners who is experiencing these problems.

     

    Once again, I wish you much happiness with your RL. You paid for it with what I'm sure was hard earned money and you should enjoy every benefit that comes with it.
  • larry6larry6 Member Posts: 26
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion...and I don't think we should try to censure any conversation so long as the focus here involves the 05RL. The problem experienced by Ivdh involves a central component of the vehicle....and earlier posts (even one by myself) suggested that back in late October that Acura had this problem licked -- which apprently may not be completely the case. It may be just a matter of time, before all of the RL's experience a similar failure -- who knows. Rather trying to conceal the problem to protect resale value, I believe each of us has the responsibility to speak to the issue -- be it positive (and I'm certainly glad that the early returns suggest that most 05RLs escaped this problem) or negative information. Also, it is in all of our best interests to monitor Acura's response to this possibly rare instance -- just to be sure that we can in good conscience recommend a similar purchase to our friends and family. Hearing what we have... would any of us recommend a friend to visit the Napleton showroom until we learn how this problem was handled. Perhaps they will come through on this -- once they fully understand the nature of the problem and the fact that more than one customer and potential customer are aware of a potential problem with the supposed excellence in customer care that they provide after receiving an almost $50,000 purchase price. It is clear, that the ball was dropped on this one. But the season is early - and a pennant is still within reach -- but management will have to show responsible judgment -- which I hope that it will. That would do more to maintain the resale value and propell the overall success of the car than anything else.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Once again, well said!
  • kennyg5kennyg5 Member Posts: 360
    As noted, the RL is known for its reliability. If you intend to keep your 04 RL for more than 6 or 7 years, why should you care about resale value? The new 05 RL is $15k more expensive, given its cutting edge technology, revolutionary design and new-found sportiness. If you are satisfied with the nice drive of your so-called "couch mobile" (I just don't know why an Acura official would even make such a comment), that is what counts. Be happy with your purchase :-)
  • kennyg5kennyg5 Member Posts: 360
    It saddens me to hear that your brand new RL is out of service so soon and neither the dealer nor Honda/Acura is doing much in response to your problem.

     

    When I had a problem with my second Nissan Maxima (I have three and buy a new one every 5 years), I wrote a letter to the executive marketing director of Nissan USA and sent it by certified mail and fascimile. Within five days, I received 2 phone calls: one from the consumer service dept (which previously had not responded to my letter to that dept) and the other from the executive's assistant. To make the long story short, the dealer gave me a substantial discount on a part which I believed might have been covered by a recall that Nissan had issued four years ago, but I did not take my car in because it did not then have any problem.

     

    If Nissan can accommodate a customer on a $28k car, Acura and its dealers should do their very best for customers who pay $50k. It is penny wise and pound foolish of them to treat you this way. Keep up the pressure on Honda/Acura, especially after the new year, at which time the corporate offices should return to full operation. Best of luck.
  • mcccclandmccccland Member Posts: 5
    My concern is the manufacturer's commitment to its vehicles. Making a comment about exiting model as a "couch mobile" does not make me happy. I cannot be happy with something that is labeled by its own creator as a couch mobile. Now I feel completely different about my vehicle and probably will sell it rather quickly (this comment stays in my head, this is me driving a couch mobile). This unfortunate comment only added to my prior concerns about this vehicle. Paying over $40K for this vehicle, I expected comparable value. Before I bought RL I tested GS, M45, DTS,530 and couple others. RL won on the overall packaging, sort of Goldilocks approach. Nothing too hot, but nothing really too cold neither. I thought that the shape was classic which would help the resale value. I had this car for about 15 months. While no major problems were encountered, some annoyances are present. Driver's window is not tight and I can hear the wind if I drive fast enough. Also sounds can be heard from this window if I hit a bump. Dealer tried as he could, but nothing was really fixed. Leather is wearing off like in the below $20K vehicle. Had a GM vehicle before, none of these problems nor any other problems were present. I also noticed that RL does not have sufficient torque to be reliable in critical situations where quick acceleration is needed. While I still believe that overall value is there, this car is not worth over $40K new in my opinion, especially comparing to what was there available at that time. I could have gotten the GS 430 for 6 grand more. Now I wish I would have done that. The current resale value of my RL is way down, so I am stuck, unless I am willing to accept the difference. The new RL does not impress me at all. It does not have the look. (try to find it quickly on the large parking lot between other cars). It is smaller everywhere, the engine has the same problem as the prior version, too little torque to be called sporty. For the same money (around $50K) you can get much better cars with a higher resale value and higher overall appeal. The 05 RL is neither BMW-like nor Lexus-like. The all wheel drive does not help the fact that it still drives like a front wheel drive vehicle. Shorter wheelbase than the 04 model does not help on a highway. Trunk is so small that any longer trip requires careful planning with your baggage. While the SH drive is better than a typical front wheel car, it is not even close to the experience of a luxury rear wheel drive competitors.
  • aclcaclc Member Posts: 20
    How did you find out about the "three fingered salute?"
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Regarding the initial “snow drive” posting some 5 days ago, I regret not responding until now, but I have been on the road here in the snow covered Midwest and unable to make too much time for the town hall here on Edmunds.

     

    I am 99% positive that your description of “feeling” the power shift from one wheel to another has nothing to do at all with SH-AWD, and everything to do with the stability control and anti-lock braking systems.

     

    If you actually could feel the shift from wheel to wheel – the power shift afforded by SH-AWD, i.e., I would suggest that you have a defective car. I cannot imagine Acrua’s engineers or management allowing an AWD car to be released to the public that had a system that could be detected by “average drivers” – or perhaps better said, “Customers.”

     

    I do not fault any driver for not knowing, not having been trained, or not being required to be trained on the most beneficial and effective way to use a significant control, safety and performance feature (or option) of this import and merit. However, and I find myself hesitant to even utter this thought, “these systems are so important, perhaps there should be some sort of requirement (government? shudder) for the driver to be certified or licensed or the seller to provide [required] training on these systems.”

     

    This may be a somewhat extreme statement – and please this is not intended to spark a political debate – but I think I can demonstrate why Acura and all the other car companies who offer such technology should also offer [virtually mandatory] “education and training” to their customers who purchase cars so equipped.

     

    I suspect there could be an argument that goes “the benefits of such systems and technologies, even to/for the untrained, improve the vehicle’s handling/control, safety and performance significantly to [somewhat] obviate the need for training in their MOST effective utilization.” In other words, a car so equipped with these systems will perform better and be safer (for the car so equipped and for other cars in close proximity). This additional measure of performance and safety is so great that additional training and education with respect to the optimum use are determined to be “desirable but NOT mandatory.”

     

    Let the lawsuits begin – eventually.

     

    After 10 days of training (4 2 ½ day sessions, each approximately 1 year apart), I have learned that these systems, ABS for example, do improve braking performance even when used improperly – when ABS engages, a straight-line stop or a steering stop is possible. Locked wheels and sliding tires (on dry, wet or frozen pavement) cannot be steered – sliding out of control is not only possible, it is likely without ABS.

     

    So what is the problem, with this one system for example, you ask?

     

    Most drivers with ABS depress their brake pedals with “x pounds of force” until the car slows or stops as they intend OR until the now familiar (to those with ABS systems) brake pedal pulsing or chattering is heard and/or felt. If the circumstances are, for instance, a snow slick covered roadway (appropriate for the past 5 days here in the Midwest at least) and an untrained driver depresses his brake pedal, the pedal almost immediately begins to “pulse” – and here is what happens: the driver maintains pressure on the pedal, steers the wheel (if needed to avoid or evade, or just to turn a corner, etc.) and either successfully negotiates the stop or turn – or runs into something (which also stops the forward progress of the car.)

     

    The problem with this is – the stopping distance, assuming the driver behaves as noted, actually increases. However, it is possible to decrease the stopping distance AND maintain steering control IF the driver would have increased the pressure on the brake pedal to [drum roll] the MAXIMUM that the driver is capable of applying. Trouble is, most people don’t (or won’t) do this. They believe the technology “took over” the moment the pedal starting pulsing.

     

    Before you protest and say, “What about Brake Assist?” – (The technology that increases the pedal pressure “automatically” based largely upon the speed with which the driver applies the brake) – point taken. Yet, the problem is, as good as this extra boost of technology is, or can be, it cannot think. If, for example, the driver starts a slow-down attempt with normal speed and pressure and continuously applies more and more pressure until the pedal begins to pulse, the brake assist wizard is significantly less effective.

     

    Stability (yaw) control’s effect can be improved significantly, too, if “education and training” in the basics of understeer and oversteer have been completed.

     

    Clearly, my opinion is that these systems are significant, important, and vital even. However, their efficacy is also substantially diminished when used sub-optimally. My argument does not quite extend to claiming that the improvements these systems can afford are 100% obviated by “improper” or under utilization. However, I do believe that systems such as ABS, AWD, Electronic Stability Systems, Brake Assist, etc., have only just started to provide the benefits they are capable of providing. Maybe until our cars have “auto-drive” like Will Smith’s futuristic Audi (model year 2035), we need to demand that our vendors “train and educate” us on the potential their products can live up to.

     

    Before the government mandates that we all learn how to use our modern systems (found in cars, like the Acura RL), my vote would be to require the vendors (dealers?) to offer certification programs – such programs would improve the enjoyment of the product (a side effect and benefit) and improve the product’s [personal & public] safety potential.

     

    Drive it like you live!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    I don't question your opinion and hope you enjoy your ride as much as I enjoy mine!
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Thanks kennyg5. Lets hope management at American Honda Motor Corp., Honda in Japan and Napleton Acura and Napleton Auto Group will in the immediate future (ie. now) begin to take its customer base far more seriously than it has as we are the lifeblood of their economic future. Thanks again. I have directed written correspondence (both via fascimile and mail) to the 4 highest positions at American Honda Motor Corp. and Honda Japan. I will surely let you know if and when receive a response. American Honda Motor Co.'s corporate offices in California is closed until the first week of Janaury 2005. No doubt management is taking a wonderful vacation in some exotic place which in effect has been paid for by the vehicles we all have purchased.
  • urieluriel Member Posts: 9
    lvdh,

     

    At approx 700 odometer miles, I experienced a problem with my 05 RL similar to that which you had with your automobile (SH-AWD check light on, emissions check light on and other alarms). The following are comments as quoted from the Service Department Repair Invoice --

    "PLEASE INSPECT FOR CAUSE OF ALARMS. PRIOR TO ALARMS, THROTTLE RESPONSE WAS FLAT AND NON RESPONSIVE. SHUT VEHICLE DOWN AND LET SIT FOR A FEW HOURS AND RESTART ALL GOOD FOR ABOUT 100 MILES THEN IT ACTS UP AGAIN.

    ROAD TESTED SEVERAL TIMES AND VERIFIED CODE AND CONCERN. TRACED TO PIN CONNECTOR AND THROTTLE BODY PROBLEM. REPAIRED PIN CONNECTOR AND REPLACED THROTTLE BODY TO CORRECT.

    ROAD TEST AGAIN AND VEHICLE DROVE GREAT."

    Basically, problem was with an electrical connection and the throttle body was a COULD BE ISSUE that the factory service rep authorized to replace. The dealership that I purchased my car from, demonstrated much concern regarding the problem I had with my RL to the extent that the Service Manager contacted the factory engineers and requested their expertise in solving the problem. As a result of the dealerships interest, a Factory Tech Rep was sent in to work on the car with the Shop Service technician and the Shop Service Manager to correct the problem. According to the service invoice, 18 hours of technician time was expended to diagnose and make required repair. It was a simple repair item that just took some time to isolate. It looks as though your problem my be with your dealerhips lack of effort to correct the problem with your car and not with any severe mechanical problem. I now have 1800 miles on the odometer and have not had any other problems.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    LVDH's problem aggravates me to no end and I wish it would go away. Like you, I know the majority of owners out there are satified. I don't read anybody bitchin too much about anything with this car. In fact, just the opposite. Most new owners are really enjoying the experience. Those of us that are enjoying the new RL quite frankly don't enjoy hearing about this problem. But it is out there and it is real and if it was happening to you...well... (Think about it for a while!)
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Sure...you have all this snow....

    in your part of the Midwest.

    and all that jazz!

      

    and my granddaughters in Houston..

    enjoyed a "White Christmas"

    and all that jazz!

     

    and here in southeastern Wisconsin

    we can't even track a deer! because

    there is no snow.....

    and all that jazz!

     

    As usual thanks for the post...heady stuff!
  • nextlife1nextlife1 Member Posts: 12
    A follow-up on my problems with the Nav Traffic system. Because of intermittent problems my service manager agreed to replace the XM box. This has not fixed the problem--it continues to work intermittently. I am sure it is the car/system for several reasons--the two main ones are the following:

     

    1) at one point when it was not working while at the dealer I had him start up one of the RLs on the lot--and it's Nav Traffic system was working fine while mine continued not to.

     

    2) my system either works or it doesn't. That is, once the car is started and the system does not come on within a minute or two, it will not come on no matter how long I drive. Conversely, if it does come on it will work for that entire trip (with the one exception mentioned below).

     

    As an example I have kept a log since having the XM box replaced of trips and how it worked or did not:

     

    Day 1:

      1) 20 min drive from dealer--did not work at all

      2) 10 min drive 30 min later--worked fine

     

    Day 2:

      1) 10 min drive--worked fine

      2) 30 min drive--worked fine

      3) 30 min drive--worked fine

     

    Day 3:

      1) 5 min drive--did not work at all

      2) 5 min drive--did not work at all

      3) 15 min drive--did not work at all

      4) 5 min drive--worked fine

      5) 10 min drive--worked fine for about 5 seconds, then for remainder of drive showed information of only a small section of one highway in the entire Bay area

      6) 2 min drive--worked fine

      7) 5 min drive--did not work at all

      8) 5 min drive--worked fine

     

    There is no pattern at all in terms of time of day to these problems.

     

    It would be really helpful if folks could comment on this. That is, for folks whose system is working is it working all the time? Especially interested in folks in the Bay area.

     

    Also interested in learning about the "three finger" diagnostic system so I can do that once when it is not working.
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    What you are going through indicates that the system IS NOT WORKING.

     

    Decades ago, the local BMW dealer had the bad habit of replacing parts to treat the symptoms rather than cure the problem. Inevitably, the new parts failed because the problems were never properly diagnosed and remained unfixed.

     

    Regarding the RL with only 200 miles, it SHOULD NOT be spending the last few weeks at the dealer who cannot get the parts to fix the problem. The defective vehicle should have been immediately replaced with another unit. I cannot comprehend the stubborness and inaction by the dealer who sold that particular unit, nor the lack of action by American Honda. This is SHAMEFUL .......
  • hfanghfang Member Posts: 31
    If my experience at Napleton Porsche in Westmont is any indication, I'm not surprised by your experience at Napleton Acura. Condescending and arrogant salespeople who blatantly pulled the bait and switch on me TWICE- it's no wonder that more than a few people out here in Naperville avoid them like the plague...
  • adam_kelleyadam_kelley Member Posts: 24
    This is exactly the problem with the dealer, Napleton, and the fact that Honda America is not taking a more proactive stance, is even worse.

     

    It is understandable that a new car will have problems; it is inexecusable that the dealer (Napleton) will not address the issue. It is clear there are dealers who understand what customer service is, and it is clear that Napleton does not. Napleton, step up to the plate and do what is right and quit acting so irresponsibly. You are tarnishing the Acura name.

     

    I think Napleton should be seriously censored the way they've handled this situation and I hope anyone reading this within Napleton's market stays clear and never does business with them. Quite frankly, this whole situation boggles my mind. I thought Acura stood for much higher quality and service.
  • patrick3patrick3 Member Posts: 31
    You're right, there are limited wheel's that will fit the RL. Acura changed the lug nut configuration which now matches the BMW (5-120)configuration. Additionally, since the brake caliber sticks out farther than most cars, it requires a wheel that is more flush with the tire..thus you can't go with a deep dish wheel.

     

    With that said, I still had about 7-8 choices of wheels to go with. I would recommend looking at the TSW wheels (www.tsw.com). They have many wheels that will fit the RL. I chose the Montage with the Hyper Silver finish and polished lip (19 X 8) It looks fantastic with my silver exterior. Go to a large wheel/tire company in your market and they will be able to show you the different options.

     

    To answer your first question, our roads are fairly good in SoCal, plus we don't have to deal with the harsh elements of weather out here. My ride still feels great, especially compared to my 02 TL Type S, but the biggest impact is in the handling. The Yokahama's "really" grip the road and there is a noticeable difference in cornering. I'll need to rotate the tires often or the tires will wear out quickly (25,000 miles if rotated every 5,000). Hope that helps
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Uriel,

     

    Sorry to hear you that experienced what appears to be a similar, if the not the same, problem with your RL's SH-AWD. It is certainly possible that the 2005 RL has multiple and/or different problems that effect the SH-AWD. Would you be so kind and advise me as to the name and location of the Acura dealership you had your RL serviced at so that the Pauly Acura's service department (which is still attempting to repair my RL) can contact that service department to discuss the issues with your vehicle in hopes of finding a repair solution to my RL. That would be much appreciated. Thanks.

     

    Once again, I thank each and every one of you who has contributed to this issue and Napleton Acura and American Honda Motor Co.'s continued and total failure to assist me with regard to my broken down RL.

     

    Based on what others have recently stated in this forum, it appears that Napleton Acura is not the only auto dealership in the Napleton Auto Group which treats its customers poorly and tries to take advantage of its customers.
  • luvinmylexluvinmylex Member Posts: 5
    I agree with your opinion that Acura executives should not bad-mouth an outgoing car just to make a new model look superior. Bad judgement IMO.

     

    However, re: resale value, a good indicator of future resale value is how well a car sells when it is new. In the case of the pre-'05 RL, sales were lukewarm at best. That doesn't bode well for future resale, regardless of the "couch mobile" comments.

     

    Re: the '05 RL being BMW- or Lexus-like, I don't know how you can make a judgment without owning both. I've had only limited experience with BMW, but I've owned several Lexuses... including a GS300 and SC430... and I can attest to the fact that the RL is indeed "Lexus-like", in that it is quiet, comfortable, and ergonomically superb. The one thing it doesn't have in common with the other cars is that it is actually fun to drive and can handle curves.

     

    I also find it interesting that it is mostly non-RL owners that make comments about lack of torque. I couldn't be happier with the performance of my '05 RL, and I'm sure I speak for quite a few satisfied owners as I've read their comments throughout the forums.
  • jmatthejmatthe Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the info! I have C. silver as well so amped to check out the options. One question, how is the road noise compared to the stock tires (not that the stock tires are that quiet...)?
  • jmatthejmatthe Member Posts: 51
    Those that comment about torque are really comparing against other V8 competition usually costing more for the most part. Drive the RL back to back vs. a 530 or a E 320 and find that against six cylinder comps there is more torque and HP. I love the car, and have owned mostly BMWs with a Porsche or two thrown in. So far, 2000 miles, the car has been flawless except for the traffic nav issue that was repaired by replacing the box.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    Thanks for the info. The tires are expensive for the fx I replaced mine at 28k miles. I went with a 275/45/20 and got all four mounted out the door for 810. these replacements should last far longer than the oems.

     

    I am still going to give the M a shot as I have been so pleased with my FX. I love all the tech in the RL (Also a reason I bought the FX) and it seems like the M will have a similar level of technology. I live in houston and outside of christmas eve AWD is overkill here so that isn't a big sticking point. Enjoy your RL and keep us abreast of how it is doing.
  • shawn3shawn3 Member Posts: 8
    I've had the car now since Oct 18th and it has truly been virtually flawless. I did have one oddity that I will ask about when it goes in for its oil change. (At 62xx miles I just dropped from 30% oil life remaining to 20%.) A couple weeks ago I was on a 400 mile trip when suddenly the AFS idiot light came on with a beep. The lights (other than the drl's) were not on so I thought it odd, but was not particularly worried. At the next rest area I stopped, restarted, and it has not recurred since. The headlights do swivel properly and all, or at least they act as they did before, so I wrote it off to rebooting a computer.

     

    Overall this is the first car I've owned that I cannot find a justifiable reason to get rid of it. At least so far. Time will tell. :)

     

    Happy New Year, Y'all!
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 807
    Do you get around the 1960/HWY 45 area of Houston? I was visiting my daughter in October and Gilman Acura was breaking ground on a brand new dealership in that vicinity. It should be almost finished by now. (1 Mile north of 1960 on HWY 45 frontage rd.)
  • mcccclandmccccland Member Posts: 5
    My comment related to the 04 models. In my opinion Lexus (GS430) which I had a chance to drive a couple of times was quieter than my 04 RL. The seats in the 04 RL are not shaped well for even slightly aggressive driving. If it comes to the 05 RL I did not drive it, so cannot comment, but you probably would agree that for $50K you can get a car that is either better driving, better looking, more luxurious or just having a higher overall appeal. When I look at the 05 RL it does not strike as a luxurious car. Also I would be hard pressed to even consider it close to the new 530. Rear wheel drive cannot be surpassed by the a part-time AWD.

     

    Now it seems to me that buying the 04 RL was a mistake as a car you buy has to be able to satisfy you in at least one area. I can attest to the lack of torque in the 04 RL (no comment on the 05, please note). Luxury is not only the look and finish, but the driving characteristics, in which 04 RL falls behind, unless you prefer to drive your car as a "couch-mobile" - so maybe the Acura official was right afterall.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    I am only up that way if I am going to the airport or to dallas (I am on the SW side of town). However they were still working on it after thanksgiving (my last time up that way).
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