Acura RL

kyfdx · December 2004

I do own an Acura... I've had two.. and six Hondas, one of which I drive currently...

I appreciate all the support, (though not necessary)..

rroyce and driftracer have been in the business a long time, and they give good advice... As you can see, most of what I've related in previous posts seems to have come almost directly from them...

But, the #1 piece of advice comes straight from my grandmother... You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar..

I hope you didn't take offense... and you are correct.. we don't know exactly what happened... only what you tell us... and my replies were based on that..

Here is hoping you have a happy New Year..

regards,

kyfdx

liferules · December 2004

I feel compelled to reply to the comments on LVDH by the lawyers and others (?car salesmen)... it appears they mean well, but IMO this is not about the LAW but about showing heart.

WE are the consumers. We should not feel intimidated or afraid to voice displeasure when the automobile, on which we just spent $50K, breaks down on the way home from the dealership. The "average" person would be very upset. I don't know how LVDH handled him/herself at first, but if the dealership behaved with less than great attention to my needs, I'd be upset. They live and die by the sale and their reputation, and thus, when the heat hits the cow pie, they need to step up to the plate. It appears to me from reading LVDH's posts, that the anger arose with the complacent attitudes of the dealership. When calling Acura headquarters, the same attitude was given. I would be upset! LVDH has that right! (and shouldn't be afraid of repercussions just because he/she is the little man). We can't allow ourselves to be bullied around and treated disdainfully just because they feel they can do so and get away with it.

Now I am making assumptions, as are all of us, but to say LVDH doesn't have a right to be upset and voice displeasure and should figuratively "suck it up" is ridiculous. From MY prospective, being a recent new car owner, I expect the dealership to act like they care and to try to help. If they do, then I'll be easy going. If they don't, then I'll let them know my displeasure.

This SHOULD ruin someone's holiday! LVDH spent a LOT of money and the car broke immediately and has been in the shop more than on the driveway. Granted, the dealership is not OBLIGATED by law to make any amends, but as other posters have voiced, it should step up and go ABOVE AND BEYOND the requirements to satisfy the customer. To give a nicer loaner, to call a few times, to empathize with them...these are the things (TLC) that it appears have not been done for LVDH. This isn't about the law, its about being a good business and commanding repeat customers.

I'll step down from my soapbox now. I think we all have varying opinions about the scenario about LVDH, and no one will know the truth.

Obviously, this event has been helpful for all of us to think "what would I do". Great discussions.

Happy New Year to all!

jjacura · December 2004

Autospies.com......Cheesiest website I've ever seen.

Lacks any credibility whatsoever.

driftracer · December 2004

I agree wholeheartedly that we have the right as consumers to require and pursue whatever satisfaction necessary.

That being said, when you flame the snot out of someone, they aren't very willing to help you - one thing I've noted is the continual slamming of the dealership, by name, in a public forum.

Were I the GM at this Acura dealer, that fact alone would get you removed from the property, never to darken my door again.

jjacura · December 2004

" one thing I've noted is the continual slamming of the dealership, by name, in a public forum.

Were I the GM at this Acura dealer, that fact alone would get you removed from the property, never to darken my door again."

Then you are probably saying it wouldn't be a good time to as Mark says "Send them a Happy New Year's greeting -- kill 'em with kindness!" Yeah, I think maybe a few bridges have been burned here. It's a very tough situation all the way around.

00boxsters · December 2004

Cheesey perhaps, but they come up with the goods every month or so on breaking stories and good pics before most anyone. This was the case on the new RL in particular...

mccccland · December 2004

I think that the entire issue of handling the two week situation is a matter of perspective. One can get very upset and react emotionally, but is it practical? If there is a problem, one has to find a solution that works. We can choose to be reactive and deny the ownership of the problem or be proactive and take the ownership in order to guide it in the desired direction. Being right is only a part of the story. Getting things accomplished requires proactivity. Whether you like the situation or not, it's your car that is involved and your stake is much higher than anybody else' s. Since your car is somebody else's hands, how they feel about you will likely affect how they treat your car. Pragmatism comes from experience knowing what works and what does not. I am sure both you and your RL will survive this situation and after some time things will look different to you. Happy new year to all

1violinist · December 2004

"Cheesey perhaps, but they come up with the goods every month or so on breaking stories and good pics before most anyone. This was the case on the new RL in particular..."

I guess they're good in "private detective" work, taking pics of "secret" cars, but they don't seem to have the comprehensive knowledge or objectivity for analysing and evaluating new cars in the market.

patrick3 · December 2004

As much as I empathize with ldvh's situation and "knock on wood" hope it doesn't happen to my RL, I think this forum has beaten this issue to death. Enough with the comments. This has been going on way too long and it's time to move on to things that most of us want to read about, the car itself. ldvh's...don't take this the wrong way, but I don't need daily/weekly updates on your situation. You've done an outstanding job articulating your situation to all and it seems you've gotten the attention of the dealership and Acura at this point. I would love to hear what the outcome is, but I don't need to hear every step in your process until it's finally resolved. Once you've gotten this problem fixed with the dealership (I hope it happens quickly), give the group an update. I guess I'm tired of one person's issue dominating this forum.

dennis721 · December 2004

I have to agree, as much as I empathize with Idvah's problem I am tired of hearing about every twist and turn. I beleieve the fourm members need to move on and talk about the car and other issues and/or acolades. At this point in time further repeating of the same story does nothing positive, and IMHO hurt the membership here as the discussion is getting stale and depressing.

cove148 · December 2004

I think he only is on this forum to the extent of bringing bad press against Honda & the dealership in hopes of getting his problems resolved in his favor. I don't think he is going to move on until then.

jjacura · December 2004

There exists a bias or didn't you see the banner ad on top of the page featured in your URL. Then they turn around and write about the ad dollars Acura is throwing around influencing everybody else's opinion! BS

00boxsters · December 2004

From my post 5484:

"I drove the RL and do not agree with their assessment but I do agree with their supposition regarding big ad money affecting journalistic integrity."

What part of the above leads you to believe I do not think there is a bias?

shotgun · December 2004

Autospies is a joke...and everyone knows it!

formula · December 2004

I expected this from that blowhard hack that owns Autospies. You should look at the way he kisses up to Mercedes and BMW. Yeah, he makes like he dislikes Bangle and all, but he sure sings their praises. They are definitely in his pocket.

prophet2 · January 2005

that HE'S in THEIR pockets?

pat · January 2005

There have been some posts here in the last day or two that are getting too personal. We need to stop talking about each other and stick to the cars.

If you see posts which do not interest you, feel free to skip them - there's no reason to tell people not to post things that you don't want to read just because you don't want to read them. All you have to do is either move on or post something topical to change the subject.

In any case, let me be very clear - personal attacks of any sort do not belong here under any circumstances.

If you really feel like a message has been posted that is out of line, you need to email me about it rather than take it upon yourself to "play host" and tell others what they may or may not discuss here.

Thanks for your cooperation.

houstonguy1 · January 2005

I finally had the chance to read the COTY article yesterday (it was referenced in this forum some postings back). I thought the overall analysis of the RL was fair--very high marks for engineering and value, less so for overall design. Like many others on this forum, I like the design...it grows on you and will endure.

wonder if the 300C's design will be as timeless?

That said, I must admit the Chrysler 300C deserves the award based on the criteria they put forward--clearly, the 300 will influence car design and have big impact beyond Chrysler. I test drove this car and admit it doesn't handle like some puffy sedan. I found it a much more exciting and inviting car than the Avalon, which CR just gave top big sedan honors to.

markcincinnati · January 2005

I generally agree with your assessment of autospies, however, they are frequently a reliable source of information about upcoming cars.

They may not like the RL, I read what they wrote and they somewhat presented [some] factual information (TL vs RL comments). Again, although I generally do not put them in the top 5 sites in terms of cred, I also do not discount their information and opinions just because they contradict my own.

I am wondering if they had fawned over this, that or the other car (that we like, for instance) if we would be less dismissive?

dennis721 · January 2005

Well I read the auto spies article too and I dorve a new 05 RL back in November, the first one my local dealer had. I own a 2004 TL and a 2005 Porsche Cayenne S.

My opinions on several items are as follows:

1.Yes the 2004 TL and 2005 RL are very close in size with the RL being only a couple of inches larger in most measurements, but to me I am not calculating the price per cubic in or lb. I am not buying beef I am buying technology, and IMO the RL has all sorts of goodies that cost extra. SHAWD, tire pressure monitors, Nav, XMradio, Computerized traction control, keyless entry and drive, Onstar,ect. I mean geezeee what do people want.

As for size, who wants a boat. Anyone price a Porsche 911 or Boxter, and how big are they, price per cubic ft of total size, price per lb, ect.

Professionally I am a mechanical engineer and you get what you pay for, nothing comes free. With Acura we are just lucky we aren't paying for all the goodies individually as options like Porsche does. The RL fully equipped would probably cost about $10k more!

To me the RL handles well gets really decent MPG, has decent power 300 HP and pleanty

torque for its design niche.

No car can be everything to everybody. Man what a dull world that would be anyway.

2.Having said all that, I want one, but the car is in such high demand here in Ohio that the dealer wnats me to take a $8000 bath (no negotiation yet) on my 10 month old 04 tl with just 1500 miles on it. Well it does have the wing, front, side and rear underbody treatment, which makes it look real sharp, but added about $2200 to the price when I bought it and is not taken into account on trade in. Dealer told me to wait until spring when they should loosen up a bit and might be able to give me a better deal. Supply and demand I guess.

If I wait till spring I may not want one so bad, I do love my 04 TL, it has Nav too, but I want the SHAWD and some of the other new toys my TL doesent have.

BTW Acura Nav systems just spoils you for most if not all the others as it is the most advanced and detalied, not to mention extremely easy to use. I had an 01 MDX with nav and loved it.

One thing I do agree with the auto spies on is, while I like the look of th 05 RL a lot I think the 04-05 TL looks sharper, especially witht he body kit like I have.

Happy New Year to ALL

jjacura · January 2005

My first reaction (after seeing the sight for the first time) was a bit harsh. It wasn't the cheesiest site I have ever seen. I was P.Oed!! I seriously question their credibility however and for them to select a Honda product and an Acura product (1st and 2nd) as the "MOST DISAPPOINTING CARS WE SAW THIS YEAR" while they show a Mercedes Benz banner ad on the top of the page. Well you be the judge.

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=3782

Also they were not fawning over ANY car...QUITE THE CONTRARY!

AND...Their assessment of the RL ended with.."The only redeeming feature? The dash/console design and the best nav system on earth. Keep those, scrap the rest and start over. BMW, MB, Lexus and Infiniti are laughing in their halls!" was laughable to me!....AND A CROCK!

somno · January 2005

Just got back from a week at Mammoth Mountain where we received over 7 feet of snow. The RL did great on roads that had over 1-2 feet of snow on top of thick ice. That includes very steep roads accessing the ski hill's parking lots.

In addition, there was snow on the highway for about 20 miles travelling out of the ski area (several cars were stranded off the road) and the RL kept hugging the road even at speeds of 35-40 mph.

This is by far the best snow sedan that I have ever driven.

00boxsters · January 2005

Thanks for the feedback. Do you have snow tires? Did you notice the dashboard AWD graphic working hard? How did the ABS feel when stoping?

bobb1 · January 2005

Now folks for some car comments:

Just returned from 3500 miles. Chicago to Orlando and back. The flatlands and mountains. Car performed wonderfully. MPG was 24 to 27. Gas prices 1.81 to 2.25. Oil life usage about 12.5% per 1000 miles. One ticket, 82 in a 65 zone.

XM radio was great - listened to it about 90% of the time. No reception issues, even in mountains. Does not work well in tunnels but neither does navagation.

Used navagation extensively. It never faltered and got me back on track when I took a wrong turn here and there.

Trunk space is wonderful, saved me bundel from those outlet malls on I-95, the wife could just not buy as much as usual.

On the road about 8-11 hours a day with freqiuent coffee stops. No issues with comfort. The dual a/c controls etc worked well.

Handsfree phone worked without flaw when signal was available. I use a sony/erickson phone with gsm technology and that is not as wide spread as the older signal type. Did get stuck outside of Savannah on night on I-95 and called hotel that I would be late. Had trouble with my cell signal but switched off to On-Star and no problem. I never thought I would have need for 2 phones in car but this time it helped. For the cost of 100 minutes, about $30 I would recommend getting an on--star number for longer over the road trips. The transmitter in-car is 3 watts (I think) where a normal cell is about 1/10 watt. Big difference when you really need to call.

I did buy a back seat cover - the type folks use for the dog and that worked well - put my cooler right on it and we had pop and sandwiches all the way.

All in all a great trip in a great car - even the NC highway patrol liked it!!!!

Good Driving everyone.!!!!

bartalk2 · January 2005

Where in Chicago did you get your RL? Satisfied?

jjacura · January 2005

Nice Post...I really enjoyed reading it...and for a change...we are back to positive feedback. Good driving to you too!

somno · January 2005

I just have the stock tires supplied on the car. I was worried that they would not be good enough (according to the Tire Rack review) but they did very well.

I did not let the ABS kick in too often as I generally went very slow when driving downhill and approaching stop signs or traffic lights (the roads were extremely icy and serious FWD trucks with serious snow tires were sliding all over the place).

The few times the ABS kicked in, the results were quite good with the car coming to a stop and staying mostly in a straight line. You can really feel the brakes pumping (fairly harshly) when the ABS activates, but they do their job well.

I did get a few chances to look at the AWD graphs and could see the different wheels getting different use, but it is hard to watch as you are driving in blizzard.

spiritinthesky · January 2005

Interesting coincidence in our choices of cars.

My wife refused to accept the RL as an acceptable car for a variety of reasons. Mostly, she was coming out of a Lexus LX470 and needed something a little more fun to drive. She was willing to accept the less expensive TL 6-speed, but not the RL. And, after test driving the RL and TL 6-speed myself, I couldn't blame her. We both prefer manual transmissions, and the TL's short throw action was as crisp as any BMW 3 or 5 series I've driven, including my 2002 M5.

However, after considering the TL and a few other sedans, I decided to surprise her with something completely unexpected, a Cayenne Turbo. A friend who is the manager of a Porsche dealer called to offer me a great deal on a custom ordered one that the purchaser defaulted on. Ridiculous money and a ridiculous vehicle, but one test drive (and $15k+ savings) was all that it took for me. My wife loves it! Plus I get to keep my M5 and we actually have something that we can drive - gently - in the snow.

In my opinion, the RL is a very nice car for the mainline Japanese upscale sedan purchasers. Namely, those that might have been drawn to Lexus or Infinity. But, notwithstanding all of it's technology and capabilities, it didn't do much for either of us emotionally, on the actual driving front. I do think the TL has a leg up on the RL in this particular dimension, especially the 6-speed version that we drove.

I'll be signing off here, as our choice took us in a different direction. But I wish all well and appreciate the other opinions and information gleaned. The debates are certainly lively.

ksoman · January 2005

I'd a few calls from a few dealers I'd talked to in the last one month. Everybody is saying, will negotiate below MSRP. I drove past eh Acura dealership closest to me saturday night and there were 3 sitting on the lot.

ksso

dennis721 · January 2005

Hey,

Good to hear from you about your circumstantial purchase of a Porsche Cayenne TT. I suppose we should be on the Porsche forum, but just in case your looking here. I love my Cayenne, it's like no other car/suv I have ever owned and performance combined with full time four wheel drive. I ordered mine the way I wanted it and still got a $6000 discount. Mine is the S though.

I do own a 2004 TL too though and I thourghouly love it too. It still is in my mind a whole lot of car for the money. My wife drives it the most as it is her car and my car is the Cayenne S.

Along the lines of my previous post, while I really wanted a new RL, the more I look at my Red TL with the under body spoilers and wing, I do have to say the TL looks a lot better to me then the RL and I have to say I like the look of the TL interior better too. I have the parchment interior and Acura used a black dash and steering wheel and the contrase of the blackand parchemnt is really stricking compared to the RL parchment on parchment.

I still like a lot about the RL and would like to own one, but considering the dealer attitude about giving a little, they may just convince me to just keep the TL and invest the $20,000 trade deal they offered me on the first request for a quote. Keeping my 04 TL with only 1500 miles on it is looking better all the time with some of the bugs that are cropping up. Wait and see prices dropping and bugs fixed is probably what I am going to do.

rlowner · January 2005

HA! it probably should have!

jrozes · January 2005

To anybody who has replaced the stock wheels on their RL: is it possible for the tire pressure monitoring system to work with aftermarket wheels or are we truly limited to Acura's offerings? Thanks.

scottjohnson · January 2005

I've had my RL a week now and just got my cargo net in the mail. I bought the car through a broker, Autoland, and was able to get it for about $1700 under sticker. They threw in the cargo net as a way to make up for some bumps in the process.

My question is, does anyone have one and can you tell me where it is anchored? There were no instructions in the box that came from the dealership, just the net, two bolts, two anchors, and four clips. Looking at the trunk there are no obvious places for the bolts to go.

Thanks!

somno · January 2005

Go to the following page: https://hondacuraworld.hostasaurus.com/Merchant2/instructions/rl/

and click on the link for the cargo net and you will get a .pdf file with instructions for installing it.

spclst · January 2005

Thanks for the update....actually, I just ordered the 18" of your wheels (didn't want to go as big as 19")...but I wanted to follow up with you to see how you handled the tire-pressure-monitoring system? Were you able to move the valve sensors (from what I know, the sensors are in the valves...?)?

Thanks for the info.

DF

bobb1 · January 2005

Schaumburg, Muller Acura. Dealer is ok but has problems with knowledge especially electronics. Sales guys the usual with one or two having spent time to get knowledge. Service staff very good and cooperative. My issues - all minor and easily solved were taken care of promptly. Parts another story but not uncommon - they never have any. I had a bulb out - I thought - turns out just not aimed properly (the one in a door pocket - blue) - so I called a week in advance to be sure they had one - or - time to order it and it was not there when I arrived - turns out I did not need it but it bothered me they could not get a blue bulb in a week. Now to be fair - I have had same issues with other manufacture dealers. These guys just don't want inventory overhead costs eventhough it requires customers to make 2 trips for often minor problems. It appears this is a trend through-out the industry. Otherwise the dealer was as good as any other - pick your salesman based on demonstrated knowledge of the car and all will be good.

bartalk2 · January 2005

Thanks for the tip. Just in time inventory, I guess. I test drove an RL at that dealership. Liked the salesman I dealt with. No hard-sell approach, seemed like a decent, honest guy. I imagine they'll be selling at sticker for awhile, at least until the competition (GS300, M35/45) gears up.

scottjohnson · January 2005

Thanks for the referral on the cargo net install! Just what I was looking for.

acuraphile · January 2005

Motorola informs me that the phone with the updated software, originally scheduled to be in the stores by mid-January, will be delayed. Expected delivery to the stores now estimated mid-March. Disappointing. I will follow up from time to time.

jjacura · January 2005

Hello Acuraphile, I'm with AT&T (now Cingular) and have been looking at a couple of their phones with bluetooth technology. The one that interests me is the Motorola Razr V3. Are you familiar with it or any recomendations on other bluetooth models? The other consideration is leaving AT&T when our service contract ends in August. Any recomendations on cell phone companies...we are wide open, and welcome suggestions. Thanks.

malibuflyer · January 2005

Scottjohnson......Please let us know how your installation of the cargo net goes. When I purchased my RL I had gotten the dealer to throw in a cargo net. The sales person after we made the deal suggested to me that I not get the cargo net. He said his service department told him that since the installation required taking apart the truck they were worried that the interior lining of the trunk would not fit as well afterwards as the way it came from the factory. While it could be just some BS I doubt the dealer was trying to save the cost of the cargo net [$35 if I remember correctly]. Anyway, I did not put it in but would still like one if you do not have any trouble with the installation. Let us know how it goes.

Kudos to SUMNO for the link.

acuraphile · January 2005

jjacura:

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the RazrV3. I, too, have a contract that doesn't expire until mid-June although even when it expires I'll remain with Verizon, a wonderful, reliable service company. I have never been "dropped" nor can I recall being without a signal. I can't believe that Verizon/Motorola won't come through before long. Until then, I'll simply keep my cell in the car and pull off to the side if I get a call (when feasible).

I'm so spoiled. My cell phone was hard-wired in my '96RL and came to life when the ignition came on. It would always be charged and I'd use it portably when necessary. Should I get the V710, it won't have a cradle, which is a big handicap. I'll need to be more attentive to assure that it's charged either at home or with the flimsy little in-car charger. I'll miss the cradle; a great convenience.

The latest issue of CONSUMER REPORTS that arrived yesterday proclaims Verizon as the best service. The issue also rates cell phones, so that should be of some help to you.

I'm enjoying the RL enormously. Not one problem, so far! Knowing the tire pressures is important for me. At age eighty, it's uncomfortable to have to bend to check pressure every ten days or so. That feature is a big plus for me.

jjacura · January 2005

I did notice one thing about that link for installing the cargo net. it was for a 2001 RL You may want to check with your dealer to make sure it's right!

patrick3 · January 2005

The tire company that installed the wheels had to go to a hardware store to purchase a tool to make the tire-pressure monitor work. It took them so time to do it, but the system works fine with the new wheels

jjacura · January 2005

Congratulations!

ceric · January 2005

jjacura,

I recently obtained a Motorola V551 (Cingular) to pair up with my wife's Prius. It works very well. The HFP (Hand Free Profile) works great. The V551 support OPP (Object Push Profile) to up load phone contacts (one by one, though!) and OBEX to send data files (pics, mp3, etc.) To see a list of phones and what Bluetooth functions they support, please visit bluetooth.org and search their products qualified.

Yes, Verizen has the best coverage IN GENERAL, but they also have pretty out-dated phones and crippled Bluetooth (only HFP). Cingular now have the best selection of phones (MPx220, Razr V3, etc.) and OK coverage for me. I got my V551 for free and the second one with $50 rebate (promotion ended 12/31/2004), and it has most functions I would use (video, camera, nice display, speaker phone, web browser, ... etc.)

For some other phones, I would suggest you to get on the web to read reviews from owners. Google.com would be a good place to start.

Just FYI.

adam_kelley · January 2005

Now that is what Acura should be known for. I'm glad that McGrath had the professional courtesy to step up to the plate and do what Napleton could not.

It's clear that McGrath knows that even with what cost they may have lost on the trade in (if any) was a small price to pay for the excellent publicity; not to mention the immeasurable value it has done for Acura's reputation (Acura Management, this case study should be taught at your next customer service training).

I'm glad it has worked out for you - congratulations!

shotgun · January 2005

BRAVO to McGrath Acura and congratulations to you Lvdh on the resolution of your problem. McGrath Acura is indeed to be commended for their professionalism and dedication to customer service and satisfaction. This is an object lesson for not only Acura dealers but for auto dealers in general...

markcincinnati · January 2005

WOW! This is the kind of treatment (although I have never had any car have the kind of troubles you have had) I only thought I could even hope for as a long long long time owner and loyalist to my dealer (Audis since 1977).

This is a great resolution to your issue -- and hopefully you will find yourself in a position to reciprocate with this dealer (and actually with Acura, since there must have been "something" that allowed this transaction to transpire, since superfically, I cannot imagine how this was in the short term profitable for the second dealership.)

Congrats!

Now, tell us what you think about the RL!

driftracer · January 2005

the second dealership - many high-demand vehicles, like the RL, or for history's sake, like the Mini Cooper, VW New Beetle, or even the Ford Expedition when it came out in 1997, easily pulled over invoice at auction, sometimes close to MSRP.

I guarantee, that since dealers want every RL they can get their hands on, these things are pulling over invoice, possibly near MSRP, with miles on them.

The dealership didn't get hurt, they sold another new RL, which gets them allocation for another one, plus they have a 400 mile RL on their lot that'll be gone by the end of the week at a $2-3k profit.

We'd have to take another look here at who really profited from this transaction - the consumer or the dealer...

The dealer has now gotten some great free advertising, while their competition was also bashed for free. Ain't life great?

Acura RL

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