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Acura RL

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Comments

  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    is called into question...let me give an example. 1998, when the VW Beetle came out, our dealership got faxes every day from dealerships willing to pay MSRP for them, with the buyer covering shipping, etc. With offers like these, why discount them (at the time).

     

    Same for the new body style CR-V, same for the Mini Cooper, and so on. And same for the Acura RL.
  • reallegendreallegend Member Posts: 28
    Fantastic News !!!

     

    Congratulations on a great outcome and for introducing a dealership (McGrath Acura) that actually places the customer first and foremost.

     

    Acura (American Honda) surely must of had some role in this transaction to insure a speedy resolution and end to all the open discussions.

     

    Best of success with your new car and welcome to the growing team of satisfied owners of this great car.

     

    Thank you McGrath Acura !!!
  • prophet2prophet2 Member Posts: 372
    The first dealer has only itself to blame for any and all negative fallout that results. A car that does not operate as it should from the get-go is obviously "defective."

     

    They seem to have been "paralyzed" and unable to think straight. Short-term profit vs. long-term impact ..... not a good trade-off for any business. A classic case study in PR "no-nos."
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    that the dealership DID check out the problems, but the manufacturer didn't give proper support to the technicians at the dealership - I'm not defending the first dealership, but they have no stake in the warranty on the vehicle - they didn't build it, they don't back it, they just work on them. If they don't have the tools or data (or training) to correct the problem, that's the fault of the manufacturer, not the dealer.

     

    Books don't buy cars, and dealers don't build them (or warranty them). Please understand the huge legal difference between the vehicle manufacturer and the servicing agent.

     

    It's easy to understand how consumers see the dealer and the manufacturer as one entity, since the dealer is where they buy it and get it worked on, but there's quite a difference - once the techs at the dealership run out of ideas and options, they're as helpless as the consumer.

     

    On the trade issue, my point was that the consumer didn't get any favors - the second dealer easily makes $5-6k in profit between the new one, plus selling the 400 mile version, PLUS gets another RL in the pipeline for later. The consumer did the dealer a favor by trading.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Wouldn't the fact that the second dealer could not technically sell the car as "new" mean there would be some discount?

     

    I conceptually agree with your conclusions, but I don't understand how the second dealer would make $3K net -- but all that means is that I don't understand, not that I don't believe.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    if other dealers will buy these cars at auction at near MSRP with miles on them, 400 miles is a drop in the bucket and can easily be covered up with the "it was a demo" or "it was a dealer trade" excuse.

     

    Please understand that on high-demand vehicles, issues of discounts, invoice cost and MSRP take a back seat to demand.

     

    In this scenario, the dealer could put an invoice ACV on the trade, sell the new one at MSRP, and show the same basic amount to finance (payments didn't change).

     

    They then sell the trade at near MSRP, or perhaps a $400 discount because it's a "demo" or "dealer trade"...and there you go. Don't forget about the other car that just hit the order bank because they sold a new unit...it's a win-win for the dealer, as the politically correct folks say. And everyone thinks they did such a big favor...yes, for themselves!
  • josheeljosheel Member Posts: 73
    All this discussion about who get's a break or not makes for interesting reading.But who really cares? I'm glad the consumer got his problem resolved.Things where getting a little out of hand in here.My RL is going on 5k and there are days I think this car sucks,but after I get it back I can't believe what a great car it is.We're all going to have some problems I would imagine.It would be nice to talk about the problem get feed back on how it was resolved and move on.Not try and figure out who gets screwed or not. Just my thoughts I had to write out
  • liferulesliferules Member Posts: 531
    If your assumptions are true, then there's all the more reason for LVDH to be upset with the 1st dealership. They sold the car to him and they apparently could have both looked good AND made some extra money, yet they opted to NOT do it and leave the customer stranded without a functioning automobile. Seems like a win-win situation for everybody.

     
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    they wanted to wash their hands, I don't know, and can't say.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    This was posted yesterday evening but was removed because you can't mention indivdual names.

     

    I no longer have my 2005 RL which I had purchased from Napleton Acura on 12/14/04 as I TRADED IT IN with 400 miles on the odometer.

      

    McGrath Acura in Westmont, IL is located a mere 9 miles from Napleton Acura. The owner of McGrath Acura (not allowed to mention names) caught wind of the SH-AWD problems I experienced with my new RL and the terrible customer service I received from Napleton Acura.

      

    Without any hesitation, McGrath offered to take my Napleton 2005 RL in trade and exchange for an exact same brand new McGrath 2005 RL, with no additional charges to me and while at the same time keeping my monthly payments exactly the same.

      

    This evening, the trade/exchange occurred and I drove away from McGrath Acura in a brand new 2005 RL with 9 miles on the odometer. Kevin McGrath was completely true to his word as there were no additional charges incurred and my monthly payments did indeed remain the same.

      

    It was a complete pleasure to deal with McGrath and its employees (can't mention names) with regard to this transaction. They were professional and courteous.

      

    This was obviously a brilliant move by McGrath as it not only forever severed any ties I had with or to Napleton (not that I would ever consider stepping foot into any Napleton dealership) but also gained a customer as well as my respect.

      

    So, hats off to McGrath Acura as, unlike Napleton, customer service and customer satisfaction are of the highest priority.
  • 1violinist1violinist Member Posts: 338
    Congratulations! Thanks for re-posting your message, because I read other members' response to your big news but couldn't find your original message! By the way, did you get the exact color combo as the previous RL or opted for a change?
  • dennis721dennis721 Member Posts: 62
    I hear what you are saying, but the simple fact remains, the dealer that sold the vehicle dropped the ball big time and gave themselves a big black eye. Dealer #2 provided a big service for the customer weather he made money or not is not real important to the customer. The customer was made whole in the best fashion possible. No matter if you say the manufacturer was the real bad guy here, I disagre with you. It takes a team effort to service the customer (both the dealer and the manufacturer) and the dealer that sold the car should have stepped up to the bar and done what the second dealer did, especially since he had another new one on his lot just like the one needing repaired or replaced. The dealer who sold the vehicle is or rather should be more than just a broker, otherwise we should all start buying our cars over the internet (best deal out there) and then take them to our local dealer for warranty and servicing.

    Thats basically what you are saying the dealer isn't responsible just the manufacturer, well if thats true, it makes no difference, lets start ordering cars by catalogue and have them shipped to us.

    Additionally if it made dealer #2 so much money, then the dealer that sold the problem car should have been quick to do what dealer #2 did?

     

    Dont tell me how self serving it was for dealer #2. I bet the customer was tickled pink and dident even consider refusing having his problem solved because dealer #2 might make a few bucks.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    driftracer,

     

    Where are you getting your incorrect facts and information?

     

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but driftracer's understanding and representations to all of you are simply not correct.

     

    "We'd have to take another look here at who really profited from this transaction - the consumer or the dealer..."

     

    "if other dealers will buy these cars at auction at near MSRP with miles on them, 400 miles is a drop in the bucket and can easily be covered up with the "it was a demo" or "it was a dealer trade" excuse."

     

    "that the dealership (Napleton) DID check out the problems.."

     

    Don't you get it? Of course McGrath received the benefit of good publicity and hopefully they will make an extra buck or two on transaction as well as I received a tremendous benefit as well, a new repalcement RL without any problems (knock on wood) at no additional charge. Why not commend McGrath Acura's actions rather than look at the glass as being 1/2 empty.

     

    Keep in mind that not a single other dealer offered to assist. Either every other dealership simply was not smart enough to realize the good publicity and monetary benefits that such a deal had to offer or just simply couldn't be bothered to help someone who was in an unfortunate situation. Gee, why didn't Napleton think of this? It was only suggested to them a 1000 times. This situation is exactly what distinguishes wise businessmen(woman) from the unwise.

     

    If the RL is selling at MSRP or greater, and McGrath sells the RL with 400 miles on the odometer for $1500 under invoice (or sells it for whatever lower price than the price of a "new" RL with 10 miles on the odometer), then the consumer who chooses to buy that RL with 400 miles also saved money. Everybody wins.

     

    You are incorrect to say that McGrath can easily cover it up with the "it was a demo" or "it was a dealer trade" excuse. First, that assumes that all dealers are evil and willing to commit fraud. Why do you have such a negative outlook? Second, and more importantly, the traded RL with 400 miles on it was titled in my name. Demo's and dealer trades don't get titled.

     

    Napleton Acura did not properly check out the problems. Pauly Acura's numerous pages of service work performed on the RL and diagnostic codes obtained clearly show this. When I first took my car into Napleton's service department for service, the service department advisor absolutely refused to write on the service paperwork my complaints and the real reasons as to why the car was being brought into service. That Napleeton service advisor merely wrote VSA light on when I told him in far more detail about the other specific problems the RL experienced. That Napleton service advisor told me it was not necessary to write those other complaints down. I had to personally hand write on the original signed service documents the problems the RL experienced. The only thing Napleton did during that entire service visit was to recharge my battery. When the car was as Pauly, Pauly had to replace the battery because it was essentially dead. When I went to pick-up my car from Napleton and asked for my service paperwork, that same service advisor told me there were not documents created. Several days later, I personally obtained those completed service documents from Napleton's cashier.

     

    Sounds like Napleton's been telling you some great embellished stories. Too bad none of them are the true.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    dennis721,

     

    I was still typing when your comment posted. I totally agree with you - well said!
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    Exactly the same. Blk/Blk with the very same dealer installed options.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Okay, I'm sure we are all glad lvdh's situation has been resolved.

     

    I think it is now time to end the discussion about the dealerships involved in this mess. It seems that some things have been done poorly and other things have been done well, but we are not here to run down or promote dealerships, we are supposed to be talking about cars.

     

    So can we get back to the vehicles now, please?

     

    Lvdh, I congratulate you on a successful resolution to your problem and I'm sure I join with other discussion members in wishing you much better luck with your new RL. We look forward to hearing about your fun with it.
  • scottjohnsonscottjohnson Member Posts: 61
    After reviewing the installation instructions for the cargo net, I'm going to have the dealer do it. Per se, there is nothing hard about the installation but you have to remove the bottom and side liners (including weather stripping, tie downs, etc.) all in order to screw in one anchor bolt on each side of the trunk for the net to anchor to. These anchors replace the factory fold-down hooks that come with the car.

     

    Two reasons I'll have the dealer do it, even though they're 40 miles away:

    1) I bought the car through a broker and want to show the dealer that I really do want a relationship with them. I saved waaay more in the purchase than this will cost me.

    2) They're far more used to pulling the various clips and connectors in and out and have access to new ones if one gets broken in the process. Plus I'm not on the hook for any damage.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "...400 miles is a drop in the bucket and can easily be covered up with the "it was a demo" or "it was a dealer trade" excuse."

     

    driftracer, you're in car sales, and you can honestly make the above statement?

     

    Sir, the car had been sold, and registered, to a consumer. It cannot be sold, nor represented, as anything other than a used car, albeit a low-mileage used car. Furthermore, any savvy buyer would ask as to why such a low mileage RL is re-sold. And I believe it would be an ethical, if not legal, obligation to disclose its repair history.

     

    If that's the way you, or your dealer, do business, you're not doing anybody any favour.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    done business that way - I'm also not a salesman - haven't been since 1993 - I just know of many dealer folks who don't mind telling someone that a "local trade" was actually bought at auction after being an Enterprise rental car.

     

    I work in a field where repair history determines value. No one else seems to care - consumers don't ask the question, dealers rarely do. Folks rarely get used vehicles checked out like they should. They rarelt spring for the $20 for a Carfax subscription, but will surely run to a lawyer if they find out it was a rental when the salesman didn't think it was..

     

    There are a few "savvy buyers" out there - the other 99 44/100ths of the population just kinda goes through life like cattle.

     

    I only responded to the post because my honesty was called into question and I don't appreciate it. I won't discuss this further out of respect for Pat (the host) and Edmunds town hall rules.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    If that's not your way of doing things, then I apologize for any implication thereto. When I bought my TL, I saw what looked like a brand new TL 6-speed sitting on my dealer's lot priced at a $3K discount. So I asked my salesperson, what's up with that? She explained the car had been sold, but one of the service guys bent a fender against a post, and the buyer demanded a new car. So the dealer ended up selling the damaged car as a "used" car.

     

    I guess I shouldn't expect all car dealers to demonstrate that level of business ethics.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    some don't, unfortunately. While I was lucky enough to work for scrupulous dealers, except for the dealer group that spurred me into doing what I do today, some folks are content with taking the path of least resistance.
  • reb124reb124 Member Posts: 6
    I have a 2005 RL since Novemeber. The computer settings and the navigation system have had difficulties. Surprisingly, the dealership service is way over their heads and have no clue. They had to return 3 times (and finally had to leave the car for 3 days) until they resolved one of the computer problems. I was showing the mechanics diagnostics I had doscovered about the car that they were not aware of.

     

    But this week was the kicker. I went to use the windshield washer. Nothing came out. The container under the hood was bone dry. Even after buying washer fluid, it still didn't work. The hoses are not connected.

     

    You pay $50K for a car and this is what you get!
  • mungoacmungoac Member Posts: 16
    Driftracer

    You may understand legalities and the arcane intricacies of the car dealership business. But your mails suggest some weakness on the subject of brand management.

      The issue that has been discused on these threads for weeks now is a clear case of brand management or lack of such.

       The Acura dealer in question has taken enormous risks with the brand in which he invested major bux/resources; the manufacturer who chose to close up shop for 10 days soon after having introduced a new but risky product will probably regret it by the time all the cows come home.

      Both forgot to take into account the nature of the jungle drums of our age. It will hurt, and I suspect Acura will pay a price when the next JD Power Init Quality rating comes out, acocunting for the RL introduction. I am also an early buyer and although I haven't had misfortunes of LDVH's magnitude, this is at this stage a somewhat problematic car.

       Meanwhile, since lvdh ended up with a new dealer and a brand new car at no cost to him, I think you must admit that lvdh played this one wiser than you had suggested. Right driftracer? Just between us girls??
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    I believe with issues such as the one LDVH had or the similiar, but to a much lesser degree, one that I am experiencing are the direct responsibilities of both Acura and the dealers.

     

    I found out the day after I took delievery of my RL that there were two messages indicating problems with the SH-AWD and the Emission systems that were issued the day before but ignored by the dealership people before handing the car over to me.

     

    When I brought the car back, the technician who looked at the car was very nice, but he did not seem to have an idea of the issues at hand. After sometime researching, he deleted the codes and explained to me that these were "temporary codes" for other issues. When pressed for further explaination, he gave an example that if the car had been driven off the the delivery truck from Acura without enough gas, the car would generate these "temporary codes". I did't think he was lying to me, but it just didn't make sense.

     

    Why did the car come with out enough gas? If this could happen, then Acura's quality control process is at fault. If the RL was such a well designed car, why did it generate diagnostic codes that had nothing to do with the problem at hand? Just to confuse its technicians? And if these were indeed "temporary codes", why did the dealer technician who prepared my car for delivery just shut off the warning messages and left the codes there for me to discover and worry about? Does this reflect the careless manner the dealer's people handle the cars? Furthermore, I am under the impression from my experience at the dealership and from what I read on this and other forums that the dealership technicians have not been trained adequately to deal with issues with the RL. I understand "just in-time inventory", but this is "just in-time training" that Acura and the dealers are engaging in with the new RL's they are selling.

     

    I did't buy a $50K+ car so that I have to worry about what happened to the car and what will happen to it in the future.

     

    To add further insult, the sales person refused to return my call to him asking for further explaination of the issue. I emailed his manager to ask for the sales person to return my call, and my email is being ignored. This is the same salesperson who told me before I brought the car that they had loaner cars, but when I brought the car in I was told that the loaners needed advance reservation. Why didn't the dealer had loaners available for their customers who brought their top of the line sedan that needed emergency repair? My Lexus dealer did.

     

    With my experience so far, I would say that neither Acura or its dealer I dealt with is ready for big time to compete with Lexus and Infiniti.
  • scottjohnsonscottjohnson Member Posts: 61
    Did you guys get a navigation manual with your RL? My dealer says that there is supposed to be one but none of the RL's they've gotten have come with them yet. They'll send me one when they get some.

     

    I'm just curious.
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    The manual is actually very good.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    I have no idea where you're going with this post. "Just between us girls"?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is my assumption that this phrase -- used often during my "formative" years by my male peers as a term sincerely meant to ingratiate -- makes sense to people over a certain age (I'm 53 and this phrase, although not in much use today, suggested a "friendly" connotation, plain and simple.)

     

    Of course, I haven't fully attempted to determine the sex of the authors here -- I "assume" most of the posters (that is 51% or more) are male, but for all I know driftracer is female. And, with respect to gender, "it makes me no difference" in terms of a "good discussion or even argument."

     

    My assumption, having seen this phrase only about a bjillion times, was that it was written by a man (as noted above) to be ingratiating -- not in any way negative.

     

    Now, back to cars.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,182
    That is just the cat's pajamas...

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  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I thought it meant he was baiting Driftracer into some sort of gladiator type battle.
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    "I thought it meant he was baiting Driftracer into some sort of gladiator type battle"

     

    I thought so, too - after all, my name (Jim Lewis) is in my profile, and although I've met women named Jamie, never met one named Jim.

     

    And yes, back to cars, please.
  • bobb1bobb1 Member Posts: 22
    Here in Chi town we just had 8+ inches of snow and previously there were some questions about functioning of door sensors in the cold. Upon returning to my car covered up to it's axx in snow I was able to open trunk (first), clean up car and open doors without any sensor problem at all. The door sensor actually detected my brush as I cleaned out the door handle area. I would say that the sensors are going to operate just fine in the cold. But - I did not wear gloves. However with the sensor detection of my brush bristles(sp?) I think the doors will operate without problem.
  • reallegendreallegend Member Posts: 28
    Your experience with the alerts for the SH-AWD and Emission System is similar to my experience, but they occurred while I had possession of the car. I had been reading the manuals over a period of time after taking delivery, and decided to spend some time in the car while reading and testing options. At this time, I had driven some 200 miles, and never experienced one issue. So it came as a surpise when both alerts appeared in the MID, as well as the indicator lights in the center dash and the NAV voice alerts.

     

    Here's why and maybe why there was an alert recorded in your car as well.

     

    When I was reading the manual and sitting in the car, I had the engine in Park and idling for about 35-40 minutes. What's different between this car and most others is that it has many sensors and alerts to monitor itself and report back to the driver. As with all cars, if you idle for a given length of time or you're stuck in extensive bumper to bumper traffic, your emission system builds up a level of carbons that the catalytic converter doesn't have a change to burn off because you're not running the engine at a high speed. This has happened to all of us, but without driver alerts we just never knew it. The RL recorded this and triggered the alerts system for both issues (don't know why the SH-AWD). After idling for some 35 minutes, I shut off the engine, and some 15 minutes later, I came back to resume my routine. That's when the alerts appeared. My brother-in-law explained the situation and sure enough, after I drove the car for about 20 minutes at a moderate speed, all alerts disappeared. However, the NAV message system retained the messages of the incident. I now have over 700 miles and the incident has never re-appeared.

     

    All I can assume, is that at some point, your car may have been left idling for a prolonged period of time during transfer and shipment that caused the alerts to trigger and record the messages, but that after the car was run, the alerts reset as in my situation.

     

    I spoke to my dealer about this and they agreed because they had a similar situation with another customer.

     

    Hope this helps. I guess we're all in a learning process.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I know many have bashed lvdh about his reaction to his RL's problem after "only" 2 weeks. If he had owned the car for a year, or 2 years, then I think he should have exercised more patience, but because he had just taken delivery of a brand new car and it broke down almost before he drove it off the lot, 2 weeks out of service is HUGE, under those circumstances. He simply did not get what he contracted for. I actually thought he showed a level of civility that exceeded what was appropriate. I give him 2 thumbs up.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    And I do think we all agree that we are glad to hear lvdh is satisfied with the hard-fought resolution of the issue.

     

    It really is time to get back to the cars now, folks ...
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    reallegend: Thank you for sharing your experience. Your explanation is reasonable for the emission system alert, but it is still difficult to see why the AWD system was triggered. It would be really reassuring if Acura came out with a TSB as an official explanation. Is your brother-in-law an expert in this area?

     

    I am hoping this is really the reason for our experiences. What if there is a worst case waiting to happen? What if there was an inherit issue with the AWD system and that it would break down after the warranty period? I would like to press Acura to acknowledge these issues. It would be good for our peace of mind, and it would be good for Acura as these issues will become more common findings among RL owners.

     

    By the way, did you find a way to delete the messages? Thanks.
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    I tried to move the wiper to the higher position as instructed in the manual, but found it rather hard to move them. Has anyone tried to do this? This is really a neat feature. They were supposed to move into the winter position under heavy snow automatically.
  • reallegendreallegend Member Posts: 28
    acurarlblue - When I explained the emission alert occurrance to Acura, they could not explain why the SH-AWD was triggered as well. However they were satisfied that both alerts reset after my short drive because the SH-AWD alert would never have gone off if there was a serious issue.

     

    With regard to messages, those within the diagnostic category can only be deleted by an Acura technician after he reviews any problems. They plan to do this on my first service check-up. The messages can also be deleted via a broadcast from Acura via the AcuraLink system I haven't figured out what triggers this broadcast.

     

    I plan to take the car in for a check up prior to the scheduled maintenance just to be on the safe side. As long as the alerts reset and have never re-occurred, Acura informed me that the system was functioning normally.

     

    I've had no issues or problems with the car since then and it's been a pleasure to drive. And I'm still learning about all the features.

     

    By the way, given your name, I'll assume yours is the Opulent Blue Pearl - as is mine with the taupe interior. A great color that truly enhances the car's appearance.

     

    Best of luck with your car.
  • reallegendreallegend Member Posts: 28
    I had this feature on both my prior Legends. You need to grab both wiper arms together and move them up for winter. They will move into position.

     

    The automatic feature will only work if you have a build up of snow and ice and the arms cannot set back to their summer position after activation. This assumes you have not already cleaned the windshield which would allow them to set down into the summer position again.
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    reallegend:

     

    Thanks the reply.

      

    The codes were deleted by the dealer. Since the dealer didn't document this service (as far as I could tell), I was thinking that it would be useful to retain the messages for future references. Somehow I am not confident of the dealership's ability to deal with the RL. I contacted Acura customer service, but has not received a reply yet.

     

    It was difficult to move the wipers during repeated attempts, and I finally did moved them when I was holding only the passenger side wiper arm. They must be linked together by some mechanism. I hope not moving them by holding both didn't stress the linking mechanism.
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    Does the blue color look better overtime?

     

    We wanted the blue, but the dealer didn't have it in stock. Our RL is celestial silver with ebony interior. I picked AcuraRLBlue, because I was worried about the potential issue with the SH-AWD system. I was not aware of the potential issue until after I purchased a RL but before picking a color. We took another day after signing to pick out the color. The night before going back to the dealer I discovered on the forums of the SH-AWD issue, so my forum handle reflected my worry at that time but not the color of the car.

     

    I am happy about the silver, but would be happy too to have the blue. You made a great choice.
  • mungoacmungoac Member Posts: 16
    I was making light, driftracer. But you seem a little thinskinned and you obviously take the business that you were -- and perhaps are -- part of quite seriously, so let's shift to serious for a moment.

      I followed your thread with lvdh, the unfortunate Illinois RL buyer, for some time and your lectures to him over his complaints were disturbing to me and a lot of others on these boards.

      The guy buys a $50K car from a dealer who for some reason decides to drop the ball when the car craps out after a driving experience of a few football fields. Then the buyer uses this and other fora to draw attention to his case -- which is absolutely legitimate. But you, allegedly having worked in the business, take it upon yourself to explain to him that he is out of order.

        That is not your privilege and it is particularly irksome is that you address these issues as if there's some special, elevated inside lore about the car selling business upon which we mere mortals should not tread. You take it upon yourself to tell lvdh how he should behave for his own sake and perhaps that of the car selling business. Your arrogance boggles the mind. It just doesn't make any sense.

       It's almost exactly 39 years since my first major battle with a sleazeball car dealer -- which I won because I used every means at my disposal and brutally at that. And the RL I just bought was my car purchase #60, in five different countries and four different states. And I have yet to see a single sacrosanct aspect of the car business. In fact, sleaze has been more the rule than the exception.

       Your suggestion to lvdh is ludicrous: humility and a soft approach is the route to success with a car dealer who wouldn't know humility and a soft approach if it bit him right in the gluteus maximus. In fact, the dealer has amply demonstrated that he doesn't care about lvdh's problems because he has his money and apparently doesn't think he is responsible when the car doesn't perform to advertised specifications.

       Crap. The dealer is dealing from a position of power. YOU are dealing from an assumed position of power -- namely your claimed inside knowledge that lets you to tell lvdh that he should eat crap.

       Lvdh scrapped and fought and appears to have attained a position of power for himself. He must have, because the ivory tower -- whoever they be in this particular case -- threw in the towel and gave him a new car. And rather quickly at that. Which leads me to conclude that your advice was bad, driftracer. All of it. And as for the dealer's lack of responsibility, I don't think you have really studied the lemon laws. They in no way let the dealer off the hook.

     
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    Great post, Mungoac.
  • acurarlblueacurarlblue Member Posts: 13
    It snowed earlier in the day. The car handled great on snow.

     

    The trunk didn't do as well. The carpet by the horizontal portion of the lid (near the handle) was all wet. It is hard to see if this part of the trunk is inside or outside the rubber seal. The trunk closed fine and the fit to the rest of the body looked fine.

     

    I am wondering if anyone has run into this.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Pat pls. allow me to ask another question here, in case anyone ever run into that situation, he/she can try convince another dealer to do something similar.

     

    Was the loan with 1st dealer via Honda/Acura Financing directly? That seems to me the only way they can convert the transaction so that the car became virtually sold by the 2nd dealer. If the 1st car was paid in cash or financed via buyer's own bank (so that Acura already got the whole cash), would there be financial incentive beyond good will/PR for the 2nd dealer to anything?
  • driftracerdriftracer Member Posts: 2,448
    Wait...I'm arrogant because I suggest that you should scream and holler and bash people in order to get something done? I think it's a common sense approach to not act like a WWE wrestler when you're trying to get someone to do something for you. Demanding and yelling doesn't get it done, telling them how important you are doesn't matter, and losing control doesn't give you control.

     

    I hope you've enjoyed yourself - yes, I suggested a softer approach, since having some guy scream from the highest treetops about what sleazeballs you are is NOT the way to get a dealer to bend over backwards for you, or even do their normal job - that's how you gets them to ask you to leave to they can take care of the folks who aren't screaming.

     

    Dealerships have really gotten away from the notion that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Dealer principals realize that greasing the squeaky wheel does very little for them in the long run, so it's not common practice. I have no idea how this man behaved, and still don't know what was wrong with the car - he enjoyed bashing me, but never explained it, perhaps for fear that I would minimize his complaint.

     

    And, no, it is you that don't undertstand lemon laws - dealers have very little part in the lemon law process and are on the hook for basically nothing. It's the manufacturer that is penalized by the state lemon laws and Mag-Moss statues, not a dealer. That's why so many consumers get blown off with a "no problem found" or "could not duplicate" waste of time, halfway diagnosis - if dealers were held to a higher standard by each state, I guarantee we as consumers would get those answers much less often.

     

    You can expect a dealership to "want" to keep your business, but when you become a liability, whether through your own fault or no fault of your own, the service manager or dealer principal can step away.

     

    Bear in mind one very important thing. The dealership doesn't have the authority or ability to "buy back" a troublesome vehicle. They aren't on the hook to do it, since it's the manufacturer's responsibility - you really have to understand that the manufacturer and dealership are very much separate business entities.
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    In response to my letters and phone calls, last evening a person in upper management at Acura Client Services called me and apologized for the inconvenience I experienced with my Napleton RL and as a good faith gesture offered to pay for my first 2 months of car payments on the new McGrath RL. This certainly represents the type of excellent customer service that we all expect from Acura and American Honda Motor Co.

     

    driftracer,

    So it seems you were off the mark when you said "First and foremost, you are completely and totally wasting your time by writing letters and making phone calls to every at the dealership and Acura" and "you actually believe that the manufacturer cares about what you have to say. Get over it, they don't."

     

    In response to your most recent post, if I may respectfully suggest, it appears people are implying you are arrogant because you admittedly don't know the facts regarding this specific situation yet you post comments as if you do, and based on the outcome, your comments have been off the mark.

     

    Additionally, there was never any screaming, hollering, or yelling by anyone - not by me or by persons at Napleton. Even you admit "I have no idea how this man behaved" yet you suggest that I behaved poorly. Whose been bashing who?

     

    Let me assure you that at all times, I was patient, cooperative and professional. If you consider that which I wrote in this forum as screaming, hollering, yelling, and unprofessional, then so be it - it sure worked so very quickly, didn't it.

     

    Without going into more facts, did it ever occur to you that Napleton never bothered to respond to me (or was advised by its counsel/upper management to not respond to me) because it perhaps knew something about the RL it sold to me that could possibly expose it to liability for something separate and distinct from "lemon law" liability? Just something to think about.

     

    Very truly yours,

    LVDH
  • lvdhlvdh Member Posts: 29
    "Was the loan with 1st dealer via Honda/Acura Financing directly?"

     

    Yes, both RL's were financed through American Honda Finance Corp.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . . those of you who know my long and loyal history with Audi (of America) perhaps are not aware that "all" has not always been rosy with our 27+ Audis. I am not going to bash any car (manufacturer) for bad product (at least my experience would not lead me to believe that could ever be justified).

     

    It is "easy" to praise a company when things don't go wrong; but, I have found that it is a better way to determine a company's core values based on the way it confronts situations that are less than hunky-dory.

     

    My Audis (in 2000 and 2001) had brake rotor issues that were so wacky, annoying, etc., that I joked I needed new rotors more often than I needed a tank of gas.

     

    I wrote letters to Audi -- they bent over backwards to find a cure for my problems (they eventually did after nine sets of rotors, one aftermarket) -- they corresponded regularly with me, sent factory officials to my dealer to examine my car (even went on test drives with me in the car) -- and on several occasion sent me "prepaid" Nieman Marcus credit cards as a "thank you" for my patience.

     

    I was, to repeat, annoyed and disappointed that two $50,000+ cars had such problems.

     

    I am, to support an approach, endorsing communication with the manufacturer as a worthwhile exercise (I also cc'd the dealer and NEVER claimed that the dealer was the problem.)

     

    Perhaps I am more patient that I needed to be, but the outcome and the responsiveness has, as many of you know, made my current consideration of other manufacturer's cars and dealers, um, "challenging."
  • cove148cove148 Member Posts: 117
    lvdh,

    I followed your situation from the first post. I believe we just saw the power that this forum has.

    What I think happened was Honda Motor cars worked the deal out with both dealers and then presented it to you. I think you did what you had to do and the forum in the end worked for all.
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