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Oldsmobile Silhouette

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Comments

  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    Steve, You're scaring me just thinking about it. My oil looks pretty much used after 4000+, I can't imagine going 7500. And I use Mobil 1, no dino juice for me! As to weather looking used is actually used up or not, who knows, but I could swear my old car with a turbo 4 would run noticably smoother and more powerfully on a fresh crankcase of mobil 1.

    I know people think I'm imagining things, but in recent edition of Hot Rod they were trying to get 400hp out of a motor and when they got close the put a full synthetic oil in and boom, got the extra HP.

    Anyway, good luck and hope it lasts for you. What Nissan, the Max? That's my other vehicle, a 5 speed SE. The van makes me appreciate the Max even more than I would normally!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I read (off and on) the various oils topics around Town Hall and still haven't been convinced that the average driver needs anything special. And there's no real basis for the 3,000 interval either - looks more like a "swag" from the WWI days. So I'm using dead dino in my Quest and trying to conserve a bit of juice for all the grandkids out there. Time will tell (and I'm a drive 'em forever sort).

    (I do check the oil every fillup and I do sniff it. LOL, like my nose knows!)

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    a friend of own his own car repair shop and he sees everything imaginable. He can tell the motors that have used by crap brands like QuakerState by the sludge left all over the motor. The first car I had my pop and I rebuilt a Chevy I6 that had been abused. Had to clean the oil galleries out with a gun bore brush, and it took a lot of work! We had to dig for the head bolts! Talk about sludged up! The lifters were stuck in the bores. Man, what a disaster! But we scraped it all out and got it working great.

    My buddy with the shop tore his own motor down a little to put a new rear main seal in and he said after using Mobil 1 the whole time, he said you could eat off the pan and the motor looked like it was right off the assembly line.

    The heat here in Houston can be a strain on cars, and its cheap insurance. 3k change interval is a bit overkill, that's from the days of when everyone used oil like QS and leaded gas. Now you should be able to go 4000 or a little more, but like I said, its cheap insurance and just recycle the oil. heck i even use it my lawn mower!

    DD
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    We've had it for about a week and my wife loves it,my 5 year old won't go in my Accura (no dvd player)and I can't believe I love it. For 2 years I was holding out for a SUV but finally gave in. As a FYI for those considering I say buy from both a fun perspective and a price perspective. Deals are out there to be had. I paid $24,700(including $3k and $1k rebate for 3/36 warranty and $500 factory to dealer cash and $1200 GM $ (no trade). I only wish I had a loyalty cert, the only option was the towing package. Happy Shopping
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Maybe your buddy wouldn't have needed to replace that rear seal if he'd been using nice thick dead dino (kidding!).

    Just 'cause I'm a host here doesn't mean I have any answers. I'll try to remember this thread if and when my V6 chokes up with sludge and gel :-).

    I wish I had time to keep up with the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 discussion, but I'm 1300 posts behind in there (and don't tell Mr. Shiftright we had this conversation, lol).

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • mobilmacmobilmac Member Posts: 60
    oil changes. Consumer reports agrees with you.
    In a earlier issue, they ran numerous test on popular oils simutaneously, in new york cabs, they found that,even under that severe driving and idling, the oil held up long past 3k miles, easily past 7.5k.

    I beleive a lot of this 3k mess, is a marketing ploy. I never changed my oil that often in my older vehicles, never had any oil related problems.
    But i have to say, my wifes 2000 olds silhouette was very tempermental about its oil being changed after it got a little over 3k. miles on it. The idle quality would change drastically and their was a noticable change in how it would accelerate.

    I could never figure it out for sure, i have my ideas, the pcv system can affect air fuel ratios, when the oil has enough gas vapors or blowby contamination, it can alter the fuel mixture, when its reburning those contaminates, it affect drivability slightly.

    But i would change the oil any way, without telling her what i did, and even i noticed that it ran better. Other than that reason, i would not have changed it any sooner.
  • shimmyboyshimmyboy Member Posts: 2
    Considering a new 2002 Olds Silhouette. Living in Central Ohio, is the extra cost of the AWD justified or am I wasting my money? Is the FWD w/traction control fine for bumping around town (or highway) even in inclement weather?

    Thanks so much for your opinions.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Unless you get lots and lots of snow I say forget it. We have a Odyssey which is just FWD with traction control in Mi. and have no problems so far getting around in deep enough snow that we could see the imprint of the bottom side of the van as we drove away from our driveway with no problem. Sure it would be faster from a light etc. but it isn't going to stop any better, and having had Jeeps for many years found when you get stuck in a 4 X 4 you are really stuck without hope of getting out without a tow truck. Plus I would guess that the AWD gets less mileage and more things to go wrong.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    #2 Oldsmobile Silhouette

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • haroldommertharoldommert Member Posts: 3
    Hi,

    We have a 2001 Olds Silhouette that we've owned for just over a year now. We have about 12K miles on it, and really love it. The only problem we've run into was that driving down the road the horn has gone off on it's own about 3 or 4 different times. It is not tied to hitting a bump or anything like that. Also, the alarm has gone off once or twice at night for apparently no reason. We have taken to the dealer and they kept it for several days, unable to find anything wrong. This dealer is very reputable, and I've always been pleased with their service department. Anyone run into anything like this on their Silo?

    Thanks!
  • magic33magic33 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone have an opinion about taking the additional $1000 rebate and downgrading to 3/36000 warranty. The extended plan sounds good to me and I think would be worth it to drive the vehicle for 5 years without having to worry about mechanical problems that may develop. Thanks for any response.
    -Jeff
  • bcd99bcd99 Member Posts: 45
    At least twice the horn has gone off on it's own while the vehicle was in motion. It has been my wife driving so I not sure of the conditions at the time. She said once was while turning and once was going straight. I have no idea what problem is, guessing something in steering column.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    First thing I would try, would be to remove the remote from your keyring and leave it at home. Then see if the problem occurs. This would tell you if the problem is in the remote.
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    Keep the warrantee. Our experience with GM products is that they get expensive to maintain once the warrantee runs out. The 5yr/100k warrantee we got with our Silhouette is an important thing to us. The dealer upgraded from 5yr/50k to 5yr/100K because they told us our GL had traction control when they sold it to us. We asked them to install traction control on it, they said that would require replacing most of the brake system and one of the computers and then to find out if the wiring harness is there for the on/off button on the dash. Our first Silhouette was in for repair 26 times over 46k miles so warrantee being 5 yr/100k means we get to drive it longer. We like to get 10yr/200k+ on our vehicles, with our Isuzu Troopers 10yr/200k+ is easy and no warrantee is needed. Our 1st Silhouette lasted only 46k till we traded it for a 2002 mainly to renew the warrantee.
  • bob550kbob550k Member Posts: 148
    After looking at the posts on this site and others I chose not to extend the factory warranty on my wifes '99 Silo Premiere. These vans just don't have all the complaints that the other manufacturers have. To extend the factory warranty is $2,488 for 7/70 Bumper to Bumper. A number of aftermarket warranty companies have gone out of business so I wouldn't consider one of those and I won't part with $2,488 either.
  • solemansoleman Member Posts: 3
    My wife and I purchased a 2000 GLS Silhouette in Sandrift last week that has 24,000 local, one-owner miles on it. Some of the options on it include heated seats, overhead information center, and towing package. Purchase price was $19,600. She is very happy thus far. I like it too, although I've only been behind the wheel once.

    We also debated the purchase of new model due to $3,502 customer cash back and our accumulated GM card rebate. We opted for this gently used model and an extended warranty instead to keep our total out of pocket lower.

    Due to the fact that the original manufacturers warranty will expire in September 2002 (vehicle in-service date is 9/99) we listened more carefully to our options for extended warranties. We purchased a 5yr/100,000 mile "bumper-to-bumper" warranty from Millenium for $1,488 (plus tax) that has a $50 deductible. The coverage includes all mechanical and electronic parts (no exclusions), but does not cover trim items or normal wear & tear items such as brake pads and belts. Work can be performed at any shop, doesn't have to be GM, and there is no "pay up front and hope to get reimbursed" shenanigans. The coverage runs for 5 years from the date of our purchase or 100,000 total vehicle miles, whichever comes first. The problem with the GM extended warranties is that the years of coverage are from the in-service date, which means that for the first 36 months you have overlapping coverage and only an additional 2 years of coverage after the manufacturer's warranty expires.

    Hope this info. is of some use to other potential Silo buyers.
  • missedbassmissedbass Member Posts: 48
    When I bought my used Silo I thought about an extended warranty. After laying out 17K for a used car, the 30 day warranty was too much of a gamble. I paid another $1600 for a 6yr/100k warranty with a 0 ded. just for piece of mind. As it turns out I've had the van for a year and saved over $800 in a rack assembly replacement.
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    In a previous post I mentioned I purchased a 2002
    silo for $25.9k (24.7k after gm $$$) and took the extra 1k rebate for 3/36 thinking that 1) time value of money makes the 1k worth 1.5k in 3 years 2) The car may stay in great condition 3)I may not even keep the car for 3 years and 4) If I want to pony up for a quality aftermarket warranty that option is available to me.

    To Soleman - If I understand your note correctly you spent over $21k inclusive of your aftermarket warranty when you could have spent only $5k more less your GM $$$ for a brand new car with dual power doors plus a DVD player. I see more value in the new car.
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    I am very happy with my decision to get used, but my '98 was only $11k. It had some seat imperfections, the rugs were good but not flawless, and the paint had some rock abrasions on the lower trim, and the side molding had some paint knocked off around the very edge of the doors, needed new tie rod ends and some minor fixes, but such is life with a used vehicle. Best to address them all at the same time, get it in working order and then enjoy.

    Everyone who rides in it says its a nice van, even my neighbor who has always has new cars < 3years old and currently has a 2002 mercedes and a expedition. (his motto must be, if the tires are getting worn, time to trade it in!)

    The DVD would be nice eventually, but my daughter is only 11 months old now and we entertain her by singing (such is the life of new parents). LOL

    Going on my annual trek to Austin for the Bluegrass festival for camping this weekend, a perfect road trip for the Silo. Fit lots of gear, don't have to worry about the dust so much on a used van and the speakers on the rear door make tailgaiting more fun. And the 8 way seats and arm rests, plush suspension will make the drive much nicer than in my 4x4 dodge pickup.

    DD
  • jpnmassjpnmass Member Posts: 45
    Just put a down payment on a 2002 Silo Premier over the weekend. Sand exterior, two tone mocha interior. Should be at the dealer in two weeks, en route from factory. Only option is the 6 disc changer. MSRP of 34090, paid 31300. Invoice of 31234. Rebates of 3502, Olds Loyalty 1500 (98 Intrigue), GM Card 2096, Warranty downgrade 1000. Out the door price 23202 plus tax and tags.

    Any comments on the factory sound system. I wished they offered the Bose system in the Bravada on this. I may upgrade, but I'm not sure yet.

    Look forward to learning alot.

    Thanks
  • indrgbindrgb Member Posts: 115
    Incredible deal. If I could have got that kind of deal I would have bought new instead of used. I personally would not have given up the 5/60 warranty however, but that's a gut call.

    The sound system in these vans is slightly above average IMO. The radio is kind of cool with all the bells and whistles, but I wish there were at least 6 speakers instead of 4. Bose would have been a great option, but GM Marketing probably thinks the soccer moms don't care, or else they would prefer you buy one of their SUV's to get the Bose. I guess I could add or upgrade the speakers. Has anyone upgraded the sound system? If so, what was the result?
  • tauberjtauberj Member Posts: 61
    Last month I posted regarding the evaporator valve and connector on my 2000 Silo. This was the diagnosis after the engine light came on and the dealer checked the engine codes. I finally got the van back to the dealer today to install the parts. they called to let me know that I was leaking coolant from the intake manifold. Of course, they will fix it under warranty. I have seen this item mentioned before in other postings and have been keeping an eye out for it. I didn't notice it myself, but am glad the mechanic did as I am driving to Florida next month. They tried to sell me the Bilstein engine flush to clean out the engine. I would have gone for it, but I did it last month when I had the oil changed.
  • music287music287 Member Posts: 116
    Whoa! Somehow, I overlooked the Olds AWD minivan. We've had four Chrysler minivans, the latest, an AWD T&C. Not only is a new AWD LXi pushing close to $40K but, they've decontented it by removing the power passenger seat, among other deletions. I know the Silo is slightly smaller and the engine is slightly less powerful but, am I missing something? Why is the asking price so much lower?

    Jay
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    I have a used 98, and when inspecting the stereo speakers for possible upgrade, I noticed that they appeared to have been already upgraded by a previous owner! This is the easiest way to upgrade the sound. The speaker placement is not so good for the highs, they are too low, but if you are really into sound you can get a high mount tweeter and put it on the Apiller or the mirror area of the door. I have not bothered to do that yet.

    You can also get a powered subwoofer for the back and run the power off the factory harness by the air compressor. I also imagine the speaker wires go through there for feeding your inputs. I got a cheap JBL 8" passive sub on Ebay and a friend gave me a 80watt Rockford Fosgate amp, but I have yet to bother to put the thing in with all I have going on.

    The headunit on the vans with the dual sound option (for rear pass) shouldn't be replaced as I think you'd lose functionality and resale, but the head isn't that bad for a OEM.

    Aside from treble coming out too low front and back, the sound in my van (with only speaker upgrade) is decent. The bass is particularly good for that size speaker, which I think has something to do with fact of the larger air volume in the van having a more favorable resonance than in most smaller vehicles.

    After I do the woofer install, I'll post pics on the triplets discussion.

    DD

    That's my 2cents.

    Also, if you think the Silo radio needs upgrading, try a Honda Oddy, it sounds like a 72 Pinto radio
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    Actually you have it backwards, the T&C's engine is bigger but the Silo is slightly longer. I looked at the T&C before buying my Silo 3 weeks ago and what I liked most about the Silo was the fold-flat third-row seat not available in the T&C. The price on the Silo Premeire was great also, I paid $25,900 minus $1200 GM $$$ plus taxes with a MSRP of $34,250. The bad news is the Olds nameplate will go away in a few years. Do I love my Silo yes, I actually enjoy it more than my Accura 3.2tl
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    That is why we are Silhouette owners. Our 1998 Silhouette was stickered at $27600, after emplotee discount and GM card rebate and special incentives it ws $19900 out the door including tax title and plates. Our 2002 Silhouette (not quite as luxery as the 1998 even though it is the same model) was $21900 out the door with the same discounts.

    Our dealer is Thompson Cadillac Oldsmobile GMC Pontiac Isuzu in Raleigh NC. They are the best dealer I have ever dealt with. The sales people are reasonably trust worthy and they treat you right. The service department has a very nice set of service managers accepting vehicles in for repair, they treated us right all through the 26 repairs to our 1998 Silhouette. The actual work done is high priced but it is done right most of the time. The only thing they are not good at is detailing, don't bother to have them wash the car while they have it for repairs.
  • mobilmacmobilmac Member Posts: 60
    we were looking for a 02 silo at thompson, and they told us, they were no longer a olds dealership and redirected us to a greensboro dealership. We might need to rethink our purchase with prices like that. My wife really loved the 2000 we traded in.

    Post #612, we had the same problem with the alarm going off, but only after a deer side swipe our right hand fender and it was repaired by a compentent shop, and another weird thing, one morning we got up and the kids said the car was running with no one in it.

    It turned out to be the blower motor running on high with no key in the ignition, doors locked, alarm set, and all the controls on the climate control set to off. I started pulling fuses until it stopped, the fuse that work was the high speed blower relay fuse.

    Took it in for repairs, they could not find the problem. Wife was scared to death, it might turn into electrical fire, took every thing out car and refused to park it near the house, we were only covered for only $100 personal affects, thats nothing when you have 2 car seats and other miscellaneous stuff.
    Fearing this bizarre situation would ignite a fire and burn the house down, while we were sleeping. next post
  • mobilmacmobilmac Member Posts: 60
    to get it repaired, to no avail. But the idea of thinking we would have a double claim, on my insurance and someone possibly getting hurt.
    Forget it.
    When i traded it, they laughed at us, as to say, you people are nuts whenever we mentioned it.
    Hopefully it doesn't cause anyone a real problem that bought it.
  • boxtrooperboxtrooper Member Posts: 843
    We bought our Silouette in December. Our 1998 Silhouette that had a lot of problems for us has been perfect for its new owners. The 1998 had better seats than the 2002.
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    I'm going to look at a 2000 Silhouette GL tomorrow. Just off lease, 32K miles, rear air, rear audio, captain's chairs, power sliding door and traction control. Dealer says "It's got everything you could get except leather". (I'll find out how true that is tomorrow!)

    And then he says: "I have it advertised on the internet for $16,995...but I know the buyout is like $16,480. I think on a clean deal, I can be right around there." Edmunds TMV seems to come in right around that price, based on the options I know about.

    I'm going in with cash, and have slightly-hurting 92 Taurus to offer, but it's been 20 years since I had to negotiate with a dealer.

    So what should I look for/look out for? How much should I offer? Should I forget about the trade and dump the Taurus on my own? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    To Dadofchamp - Just a couple thoughts 1) for no more than $5500 but quite possibly less you could purchase the GL new with a 3 year warranty. If you buy the used vehicle you may end up spending another $1500 for a GM warranty which brings the difference to no more than $4000 for a BRAND NEW VAN. Just so you know I included the following options on the new GL in my example for you, Security Package: includes auxiliary rear air with heater, rear seat audio controls, driver information center, universal garage door opener, passenger side power sliding door and rear parking aid and traction control (value $2350). 2) Olds Silo was redesigned in 01 so with a new van you'll have the updated not outdated look 3) You're always better off selling your car by yourself to get maximum value.
    Happy Hunting
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    To trader14: I guess I need an explanation of your numbers. Edmund's TMV on the Security Package is $1314, putting the TMV on a 2002 GL at $26,611. Can I really expect to negotiate $5K less than what Edmunds says "others are paying"?

    BTW If I stay away from extended warranties sold by the dealer, I can get 6 year, 100K full coverage for under $1200. Warrantybynet and WarrantyDirect both quoted me prices less than the $1500 you mentioned.

    As I said, it's been along time since I've been involved with this. Am I missing something in the numbers I found? Thanks!
  • jpnmassjpnmass Member Posts: 45
    Remember you get the 3502 rebate off the 26611. That brings you to 23109 w/ a 5/60 warranty. Downgrade to a 3/36 and get another 1000 off the price if you wish.
  • jpnmassjpnmass Member Posts: 45
    One other thing. I just put a down payment on a Premier. The Edmunds MSRP is higher by 260 than the actual sticker on the car. Not sure if that is the same with the GL, so you might save another couple of hundred. The TMV is quite accurate if I look at my transaction. MSRP (per Edmunds) for base Premier is 34055, TMV is 31171. My MSRP was 34090 (includes 6 Disc changer, paid 31300.
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    Dadofchamps - 3 weeks ago I purchased a Olds Premiere with towing package MSRP of $34,250 on Edmonds, after all the discounts I paid $25.9k plus tax (actually $24.7 plus tax when my GM $$ are factored in). Edmonds TMV is $31,242. Just as a FYI I used all rebates $3502, $1000 Warranty downgrade also so that means I bought the car for about $650 below invoice and deducted rebates.
    Aftermarket warranty info of $1500, I just guessed, I'm not in the car business.
    The net of it all is that you can buy the vehicle at or under invoice and add all available rebates and get to a number close to what I mentioned. I think there's additional value to buying new because even though I own the Silo and love it, I have serious questions about its maintenance record once it will get a few years old.
    Good luck with the decision you make
  • catamcatam Member Posts: 331
    It easy to do with all the numbers thrown around in the last few posts.
    In the end the guys who bought new paid more than $25,000 for their vans, (which is still a good deal).
    However, the van you are looking at was quoted to you at $16,400 without any real hagling. Thats a $9,000 difference.
    The used van you have described sounds like a pretty good deal to me, I think there is probably still some negotiating room, (I'll bet at the worst you can get it below 16, and possibly down around $15K even. Without any real research, that is the price I would shoot for.
    In the end, the used van is still going to be significantly cheaper than a new one.
    As far as trading goes, yes you will likely do much better selling it yourself. Couple of things to keep in mind, 1)is it worth the hassle to you, 2) research your cars TMV, vs. trade value that the dealer offers to see how much you stand to lose by trade in, 3) the trade in will reduce the sales tax cost on your purchase so that difference needs to be factored in. 4) Your 92 Taurus is probably not worth much any way you slice it.
    As far as warranty goes, I would check these boards, you will find the GM trio has a pretty good reliability record esp compared to other minivans. After researching, remeber a couple of things, 1) Are the repair costs likely to exceed the cost of the warranty, (remember warranty companies are similar to insurance co. they calculate their prices based on repair cost histories, and charge an amount that allows them to return a profit), 2) If you put the amount of the arranty cost in a savings acct/ fund, you are going to get a return on your investment increasing the amount of repair costs necessary to make a warranty worthwhile.
    Dealers don't promote and sell ext. warranties to loose money, these items are big cash cows for them.
    Sorry about the long post.
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    To catam: Never apologize for a long post if it contains valuable, factual information and advice!

    I appreciate the information. One number that has not entered into this is how much the ole budget can handle each month. Yes, getting new for $X-K more might makes sense, but not if it puts so much stress on the whole situation that the wife and I are battling over custody of van/house/kids in court 2 years from now!

    OK one last question: How do I talk him down to 15K? Do I just say $15K, cross my arms and refuse to leave until he writes it on a contract? I know all about "don't get excited about the car, point out every flaw, etc" but what else can I do to chop a grand or so off his asking price?

    Thanks again!
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    One more factor in all the info above. Most of the time on a new vehicle you get a cheaper interest rate, and more years to pay and even sometimes it figures out to a smaller monthly payment than the used one. With all the above information swimming around in your head it almost makes you want to keep what you got.:-)
  • trader14trader14 Member Posts: 7
    Just one last note: The difference in price between a premier with no options and the GL model with no options is about $6.5k. According to Edmunds (and you can do better) the TMV is $25.2k for a new Olds Silo GL deduct $4.5k for rebates and a BRAND NEW GL is under 20.7k
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    Edmonds has some good pointers about buying used, check the site.

    Also, I think you want to keep showing interest but make your concern on the price be obvious. If you are serious about the vehicle, find others to compare it to in your town and try to get faxed quotes on their "best deal". Its close to the end of the month, so its a prime time.

    I would not give a price you're willing to pay, just compare to other vehicles even if they don't exist (its a game), "well that Chevy Venture in blue my wife liked better and it was $13,500. Can you come close to that? If you can, maybe we can overlook the color (or lack of leather seats, etc. ) Always don't get too excited and look interested but like you need convincing. If you get jacked around by a bunch of games tell them flatly you won't play games, and you're leaving. I've seen them follow you out to your car and stick their head in the window trying to get a buyer to stay.

    I was not that anxious to get my '00 maxima but the dealer kept coming down down down (early '01) and finally I got it for like $2400 less than invoice - they really wanted to sell it. If you don't give a price (I personally think the offer someone suggested of $15k is a gift to the dealer) you're better off, unless its pretty darn low.

    Dealers pay very little for tradeins, so you have a heck of a lot of room to negotiate. Sometimes you can get to the table and balk, then ask for more. they have a juicy sale just about done and you're just asking for a sweetner, like another $500 off or a trailer hitch installed or whatever. The salesman will have time tied up in you and wont' want to let the sale go, you'll be amazed what you can do if you work it.

    The depreciation on these vehicles (and most vehicles) is steep, so buying used made sense to me. I got a '98 GLS with leather and everything for $11k in December '01, and it need a few minor things but I am very happy. They are not in demand like the Honda Van, so you should have room to negotiate. Obviously on some cars they tell you to take it or leave it.

    Good luck, tell us how you did. Also see GM van triplets topic. Sorry for long post, I got carried away.

    DD
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    OK, so my wife and I looked at the 2000 GL today. The only options it didn't have was the Camper/Tow and Gold packages - Edmunds TMV of $16,951.

    There were three obvious problems:
    - Needs front tires at a minimum, could use rears.
    - Overhead control console for rear air/audio is loose, with a screw or bracket rattling
    around inside.
    - Needs brake work or possible master cylinder

    The last item is my biggest concern. It was obvious when we drove the car that it needed brake work since the pedal went further down than I was comfortable with. When I shut the vehicle off, and climbed out, I heard "not quite a hiss, but maybe a hiss" from under the hood, with the sound fading quickly. I restarted the van, opened the hood, called the salesman over, and then had my wife shut it off. The sound was coming from somewhere near the master cylinder, and lasted for maybe 30 - 45 seconds. The salesman heard it and I told him the brakes definitely needed work and wondered if the noise could be from the master cylinder. Of course he didn't know, but said it didn't matter because he would do a brake job if we wanted the van and the master cylinder or whatever was causing the noise was covered under warranty.

    The next thing he did was take us over to another 2000 GL and said "This is the one I just bought for my wife. Both of them just came off lease, and I bought this one because of the leather and color. Otherwise it's the exact same vehicle." So my wife said "Did your's need brakes?" "Yes, a full brake job was done." And then she asked "Why would both vehicles need major brake work at 30-32K?" His answer: "Due to the weight of the vehicle, you can expect to need brake work done every 30K." Does that sound reasonable? I've never owned a vehicle that needed brakes every 30K, yet both of these GL's needed brakes.

    The last thing the dealer told us was that the reason the van wasn't cleaned up or had the brake work done was that when they get a vehicle off lease, they don't put any money into it until someone is serious about buying it. Otherwise the sales department looses the money they pay the service department if they end up returning the van to GM. He said that if we called him and told him we were serious, he would get the van "ready to buy" and then we could see/drive it again before we made a final decision. My wife and I both like the van, so depending on the responses you folks provide regarding the brakes, we may ask him to get it ready.

    Your thoughts/opinions would be appreciated. I'm very glad I found this forum.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    A brake job at 30K sounds resonable to me. Most likely just the fronts will need it. Thats what they say on the Odyssey site, but we haven't had ours long enough yet. I can tell you that at 22K on my 1 ton GMC crewcab (6400 lbs.) I needed front brakes, but did a lot of city driving. That vans 32K could also have a lot of city stop and go driving and would warrant brakes sooner than one driven on the highway all the time. I think your salesman is right for a change.
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    There are a lot of systems under the hood of these vans, I doubt you were hearing the mastercycl. The brakes probably need new rotors and pads/rear linings, and with city driving then can be worn out in 15,000, so that's normal wear - its a heavier vehicle with an automatic. Old worn brakes result in more pedal travel than new ones. This is not really a problem until they are worn out, just a fact. Also, the rear drum brakes might be out of adjustment and have excessive play. There are self-adjusters but they sometimes don't work very well. 4whl disks would be sure be agreat improvement, but GM like others is saving money.

    If the pedal holds firm once you get the vehicle stopped (engine running), you don't have a m/c problem. A sinking pedal you have to pump, and low brake fluid would be a sign of m/c problems. If the booster (the part that has the vaccume from the engine which could make a hissing leak sound) was bad, your engine would get excessive air bled into probably it affecting the idle and the pedal would likely be harder to push (less power assist).

    Make sure the model has what you want on it, you can check the option sheet on edmonds to see if there's things you don't have on the GL you might want.

    the hissing noise could be the air conditioner, etc., but I've never heard a brake system make noises after the car is off. There is a lot going on under the hood of this vehicle, but if everything works, don't sweat the noises. If you are concerned a checkup by a mech might be a good idea.

    While the interior trim integrity is not a strong point of GM cars, the things you described may point to rear AC repairs (many mech.'s will not tighten things up or loose fasteners) or headliner repairs. FYI.

    Good luck.
  • dirkdaddydirkdaddy Member Posts: 313
    Geeze, all that babbling and I forgot to mention tires. I drove a Pontiac van with some el-cheapo tires on it, and it was a TERRIBLE driving van. Even on mild corners felt like it the van was at the limit and it was loose and disconnected from the road. My Olds had Sears/Michelin tires and it is firmly planted to the road and outhandles most SUV. I take one exit ramp at 60+ w/o tires squealing (16" alloy rims and stock tire size). Most of saftey is accident avoidance, so get decent tires, it will make a huge difference.

    Moral: Don't get them to put just any tires on it, I'd price top-end replacements like Michelin and insist they take that that amount from the price after you get to your agreed price, or they buy them for you. The Edmonds prices usually assume the vehicle is in near pefect condition.
  • letsgetmikeyletsgetmikey Member Posts: 82
    Unless you're doing some serious stop-and-go traffic, the brakes should last well beyond 30k miles. My two silo's have over 50k on the original brakes and they look and sound fine, though the one with 58k will probably need a reline later this year.

    Mikey
  • letsgetmikeyletsgetmikey Member Posts: 82
    Dirk, you are right on target about the tires.

    The OE Generals on mine are terrible, out of round, thumping, pieces of junk. I never thought I'd get 30k miles out of them, but I'm at 52k (on a 2001 model, no less) and I'm ready to yank them off (or yank what's left of my hair out). I finally found a rotation pattern that minimizes the thumping Generals (worst ones go on the back), and I have vowed to leave them alone until they wear out.

    If you buy cheap tires, you will be reminded that you bought cheap tires every time you go for a ride. Buy the best and enjoy the ride. After all getting new tires is the next best thing to getting a new car, and it's much cheaper.

    Sears has the Michelin T-Plus on sale now for $97 in the P21570R15 size that I use. I was told by more than one Sears store that these are X-Ones rebadged for Sears. Trust me, Michelin makes great tires.

    Mikey
  • indrgbindrgb Member Posts: 115
    I recently replaced the junk Generals on my Silo at 31k. The tread was still decent, but they were cupped and noisy which drove us crazy. I don't know how they got cupped since they had regular rotations. I've read all the glowing stories about Michelin, so I went to Discount tire and asked them to convince me why I should spend $105 each for the X-one instead of 60-65 for the Yoko or BFG touring tire (by the way they sell the X-one). He said he wouldn't even try. I ended up getting the BFG Precept touring for $62 after rebate. So far I think they are great. I hope to feel the same in 2 years.
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    While I'm still considering the 2000 silo we've been discussing all week, I just got line on another one. My neighbor's dad (see his picture next to "anal personality" in any pysch book) just signed a deal on a 2002 Silo and is trading in his 2000. I know the complete history of vehicle, (new rack, minor AC work, not much else) 37K miles, all available options on the GL except for leather, tow package and load leveling. The van is super clean. If the owner sneezed, he took it to the dealer for a check-up. The dealer gave him $14,200 in trade which is ~$500 more than the Edmunds appraisal app shows for an exceptional vehicle with the options that are installed.

    The dealer won't give me a price since he doesn't even have the vehicle yet...the new one hasn't arrived yet. He says that once he gets it, he will run it threough the shop, but knowing the current owner as he does, he's pretty confident it won't need anything. He knows I know everything about the van, although I didn't tell him I knew he gave $14,200 for it. So this should be simple right? You guys tell me what the absolute minimum profit a dealer will accept on a $14,200 investment, I offer him that and no more, and I drive the van off the lot. Right?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    If the new van isn't here yet that means that no final deal has been signed and the person can do as he wishes with the van. I would offer him an extra $3/500 as I'm sure the dealer will want at least 1K more for the van and don't be surprised if he even wants more. Cut the dealer out of the picture before he gets a chance to screw you.
  • dadofchampdadofchamp Member Posts: 15
    To dmathews:

    The deal has indeed been signed and the title has been given to the dealer. Don't ask me how or why, but that's what the current owner told me. He also told me he would have needed to ask at least $16K to cover the extra taxes if he didn't trade it in. There's no sense in arguing with his numbers since its a moot point: he doesn't want to go through all the paperwork again. As far as he is concerned its a done deal with the dealer, and he was just trying to be nice by calling me when he heard I was looking at a similar vehicle.

    Thanks for your suggestion anyway!
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