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We're also looking for people who recently switched one way or the other and what they like/dislike about what they're driving now.
If you are interested in participating, please provide your city/state of residence and your daytime phone number to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than March 20, 2002.
Thanks as always,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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WHAT PRICE IS CONSIDER GOOD DEAL ON PURCHASE 2002 RL W/NAVIGATION
John C. N. Studio City
MXV4s provided a softer ride with less effort on the steering.
AVS db had a slighly harsher ride with better grip on the road. Slighly more effort on steering.
Its an ssymmertric tire so you can't rotate in an X direction.
The AVS tires are extremely quiet. I thought the Michelins were pretty loud. I didn't like all the road noise from the Michelin. After breakin, the AVS are still quiet but you tend to hear more air whishing noise around corners (hard to explain). That was the one annoying thing about the AVS on 30mph roads around corners.
On the highway, the AVS still remain extremely quiet. I'm always telling my wife how happy I am to have these tires. The MXVs do feel more stable on the highway as if they center contact patch is flatter.
The AVS tires are softer and wear down faster as well as more prone to flats. I had more flats with the AVS (3 total) than I've ever had in my lifetime of driving (no flats before and 15 years of driving).
On the highway the AVS are much quieter over bridges and road strips. The Michelin tends to amplify the noise across bridges where the AVS muffles them.
I ended up getting rid of my AVS after 30k miles not because of wear but because I had a flat on the tire edge that couldn't be fixed safely. I guess I could have switched out that tire, but decide to try another brand. :-)
Now I have Dunlop SP5000 on my RL and it seems to be a good compromise between the Michelin and the AVS. Its very quiet too (after initial breakin). Its quieter than the Michelins but more durable than the AVS. No flats so fars after 8k miles. Knock on wood. Highway stability still isn't as good as the Michelins but all the tires are still acceptable for me. Also no whishing noise around corners. :-) Ride is almost as good as the Michelin.
In the AVSs defense on flats, I was checking out a lot in new housing developments at that time so there were plenty of times where I could have gotten a flat with all the rocks and nails.
When the Dunlops wear out, I'll probably get the AVS again but change from 215/60 to 225/55. I don't mind the slighly harsher ride, but I really like the improved handling. The AVS doesn't squeal as often around corners (actually, I don't remember it ever squealing).
In the end, it depends on what your looking for. The Michelin is a touring tire and the AVS is a high performance tire. Both all season.
Good luck on your decision.
Talking about Tires... How about rims?
My local Acura dealers (two of them) have chromed rims for RL for exchange along with additional charges(4 original factory ones + $689.00 = 4 Chromed ones, as I was told last time). They said that these rims are exactly the same just like the factory ones but chromed aftermarket. Since I am always interested in getting aftermarket chromed rims for my RL, this option sounds very attractive. So my question is if there are any advantages to go with the aftermarket dealer's chromed ones? or I should keep focusing on the regular aftermarket ones?
JohnC IN Studio City
The things I would like to see in the RL are:
- increased size to about 203 in. The car feels too small. I'm considering a larger next purchase such as BMW 745iL or Mercedes S-Class or Audi A8L.
- dual zone climate control system. Wife can't stand the same temperature that I like.
- power antenna rod over the window grid antenna (The window antenna reception isn't anywhere as good as the power rod. My 91 Integra had better radio reception. So what if Lexus LS430 and BMW 745 does this, it still works horribly after talking and hearing from owners).
- add XM radio as an option. I want a better than FM even if I have to pay a monthly fee. $10/month is nothing.
- Please replace the trunk hinges with shocks. They eat up luggage space.
- move the 6 disc changer into the dash or glove box. Having it in the trunk is very inconvenient. My NSX does this too and I hate it!
I have to step out of the car with the possibility of getting mugged when changing cds or its 10 degrees outside or raining.
thank you,
99 RL owner
97 NSX-T owner
Among my ideas were:
1) larger engine (2.7L in '87 coupe vs. 2.5L in sedan);
2) two-door coupe (Motor Trend's 1987 Import Car of the Year);
3) leather upholstery (L and LS);
4) air-bags (LS coupe);
5) ABS (L and LS);
6) climate-control AC (L and LS);
7) more color choices (red, gold added).
Now, I don't delude myself in thinking that these "suggestions" from me and countless others prodded Honda/Acura to offer ALL of these items to varying degrees on their 1987 product line. These were already in the "think tank" even before the Acura line was launched.
But, it was nice to be given a chance by the manufacturer to express ourselves.
6-CD in-dash changer would bring the RL up to modern times. Also, a few more inches in the car's length to at least 200". 5-speed AT and 250 hp would be nice. Some express a desire to go V-8, but is that really necessary other than "keeping up" with the LS-430, MB "S-class," and other luxury lines?
The dealer finds nothing wrong with the engine mounts and doesn't know why the car would stall.
Has anyone else had these problems? If so, what was done to fix it? Any comments would be appreciated.
There has been no noise on it. Hope it's real!
Take care.
Joe W.
Purchased used 2000 RL, 11k miles 5 months ago for wife. Car stalled at stop twice & while moving slowly in traffic once. Original owner had similar complaint when new and dealer said it may be transmission but nothing done except to incr idle.
I spoke to shop foreman who said Acura authorized transmission replacement in some RL's but problem remained. Said they received reworked engine control module and that seemed to have fixed stalling problem. Acura replaced engine/powertrain control module a month ago and so far it has not stalled.
Also my sun roof seemed to have rattling sound when shade was open & driving on rough road. Dealer said it was the rubber squeeking rather than rattle. I disagreed and said it was rattle but they lubed the rubber seal and all is well now.
RL Owners: Is the RL worth $10,000 more than the TL? Can you owners give me an idea of mpg on the RL?
"Is the RL worth $10,000 more than the TL?"
That's why I bought one. I looked at both cars and, since I do lots of highway driving, chose to drive the RL at a premium price. Well worth the decision.
"Can you owners give me an idea of mpg on the RL?"
Well, there's been a lot of discussion on this and it seems to vary from car to car, or driver to driver, or both. Personally, in 80 city/20 hwy I get about 19.5. At a steady 65, it's 24 or a bit more (depending on temp.) And at 80, it's 22.
Take care.
Joe W.
Anyway, here's my question: Are the improvements in the suspension and horses in the 2002 RL worth the extra $10K I could save by buying a 2000 with 30K miles or so. I plan on driving the car past 150K miles and I'm not the type to pay extra just for the new car smell. Can you really tell a difference in 2002 vs. 2000? Also, I'm not interested in waiting till next year for the possible V-8, RWD or AWD enhancements with a higher price tag.
Insight or advice?
Thanks, Scott D.
Some wags have said that "RL" stands for "Revised Legend," so you aren't "cheating."
Now for others (as you can tell) the difference isn't worth mentioning. But coming from the Legend, a truly responsive car, you may prefer the '02, like me. But, obviously, if that doesn't make a difference you'd be wasting money to buy a new one.
If you want to wait till August of '04 you can have mine for a shade over $22.5k!
Take care.
Joe W.
Take care.
Joe W.
If you're going to be drag racing I'd suggest something with a slightly different configuration -- maybe the BMW 540iA -- tho it would carry a slightly larger surcharge.
I'm curious. Why does 0-60 interest you with this car?
Take care.
Joe W.
Check the radio in the TL, when you adjust the steering wheel volume, the console knob doesn't move with it. The sound system isn't as good as the RL. Also in the RL, steering controls are in sync with the center dash.
Look at the door locks in the TL. All 4 aren't exactly the same height. That isn't a problem in the RL.
The TL driver door armrest is hard molded plastic. Its very uncomfortable to rest your arm there. The RL uses padded leather for armrests.
The paint and sheetmetal on the TL is very thin. 2 coats. My dad got hail damage on his TL but no damage on his Toyota Camry or Nissan Maxima. RL has at least 4 coats on thicker sheetmetal.
Some of the TL fuel doors are completely flush with the body panels.
(Hear about this one from other owners, but my dad's TL looks fine)
The RL and TL are built at different plants. The RL has much tighter tolerances.
Check out http://www.hondanews.com
They go into greater detail on whats in an RL (Powertrain info, Chassis info, Structural info, etc.) Go under 3.5 RL Technical Info.
I like the TL, but its just not as nice as the RL. If you get an RL, I think the 2002 model is definitely the best one yet.
The transmission is very responsive and smooth, you don't feel it is slow at all from 0-60, considering its weight at 3850 lbs. Actually my wife told me that her friends always felt she drove too fast with the RL. I have to remind her to slow down to avoid the tickets.
Just like what I943973 said about the RL, it is worth the 10K, and considering the discount you probably can get for the RL due to low sell record, you may be talking about 7K.
The only things I am missing from the RL are the side curtain air bags and outside auto-dimming mirrors comparing to my Lexus ES.
Unless you already have a manumatic of some sort, and there isn't one on the Max (I think), you'll probably not use it at all after a month or so. The fact is both cars have automatic transmissions, and the TL has a toy attached. You're telling yourself (I imagine) that you'll buy it and use the auto in traffic and the "manual" in the open, for fun. But after you've played with it for awhile, you'll realize you can't really beat the automatic most of the time and you'll feel a bit silly shifting without a clutch -- or so they tell me. If you really want a sports sedan, check out one with a 5- or 6-speed manual so there will be some purpose to it.
So far as acceleration goes, even driving in the Boston area I've never found a situation where I've felt that I even *need* to floor the RL to remain comfortable when accelerating from a dead stop. What happens more often is that the entry to the x-way is taking place at about 40 and I need to get up to 60, 70, 80 real fast. The RL handles that with authority (and I'm sure the TL will have no problem either). Once, infact, I was in the fast lane at 75 with a car tailgating when the bozo in the middle lane started to come over into my lane -- I have no idea what he thought he was doing -- but the RL accelerated out of trouble while the guy behind me applied his brakes and we all avoided a nasty accident.
I'm not saying any car of the quality of the TL couldn't handle it as well, only that the RL has plenty of what-you-need for any real-world situation you'll encounter. And, for me, for the long haul, it has real comfort for my aging, 6'2" frame. My son lives 600 miles from me. In the Max I had before this I had to stop twice to stretch my leg cramps and rest my back. In the RL I stop once, for gas. My bod -- such as it is these days -- is comfortable ... and that's why the RL is worth more for me.
Now on resale you have an arugment. Surely the TL is a lower cost of ownership over the first 3-5 years, especially because of depreciation. Nothing I can say about that.
Good luck with your decision.
Take care.
Joe W.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
I agree with Joe W. that the manumatic is just a toy because the TL already provides the low gears independent of the manumatic.
Features they need to put in the TL that the RL has is power tilt/telescoping steering and auto headlights. Both are very convenient.
I think the TL would have a lower cost of ownership throughout the life of both vehicles partially contributed by its much better fuel efficiency and lower cost of parts. Not for the 3-5 years or so. In fact, Brand-new 2000 RLs (without Navigation) were selling for 32K a couple of years back. Does not bode well for the future resale value of the car, should you decide to sell it, even though the purchasers would have had a good deal at the point of purchase. If it is so good, then why is is sold so cheap ??
Also, the 3.2TL with its 60 degree V6 (ideal configuration for a V6) and its 5-speed Adaptive Sportshift Automatic transmission accelerates from 0-60 in 6.7secs (Motortrend, June 2000) while the RL is a bit more leisurely (to put it mildly). The TL-s does the same distance in 6.2secs. 60-100 in the TL/TL-s is near instantaneous, while that in the RL is a bit lacking in punch, but should suffice for quite a few people. The RL with its 90 degree V6 engine (Ideal configuration in a V8 but poor configuration for a V6 - needs band-aids to quell secondary vibrations and retain smoothness) and its out-dated 4-speed Automatic transmission, along with its FWD configuration is a disgrace to be the flagship of a Luxury car company. JMHO.
When a BMW 3-series owner decide to step-up to a better car, for him a 540i or a 7-series would a worthy alternative. Would a TL/TL-s owner consider the RL for a step-up when they decide to up-grade ?? Under no circumstances !!! Hell, some people might consider it to be a real down-grade, better quality of materials not-withstanding !!
The quality of interior materials is better in the RL than the TL but due to the RL's variety of lacks, it simply is not appealing, which accounts for its poor sales and the resultant "good deals"/heavily discounted sales. None of these sales tactics are "good" for either past or future owners who may be paying close to (or a bit lower than) the sticker price.
Later...AH
Finally, it seems that the Lexus ES300 would probably also fit my needs. Any insights?