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Pontiac Bonneville
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As far as Bonnie SSEi vs. Chrysler 300M is concerned, I test drove both at a Pontiac sponsored test track at Foxboro Stadium in Massachusetts. The Bonnie way out performed the 300M. The bottom line is that it boils down to priorities.
1) GM vs. Chrysler
2) Styling
3) Performance
4) Individuality
For me, I prefer that GM feeling (I've had 10 GM cars and loved them all). The styling of the Bonneville is fresh and new. With the Chrysler family of cars, you are one in a million; my car turns heads. Also I like having one of the fastest production cars made.
I guess smfran is right, he does have one of the faster big cars in production, the key word being production *grin* unfortunately the general killed off the last of the true big cars that you can actually tinker with in the garage, race at the track and haul people and @ss all day long with -- The 94 to 96 Impala SS
With about 200 dollars worth of performance mods I have shaved my quarter mile from 15.6x (same as tested by MT) to 15.1x a full half second.... the next half second won't be a cheap but it will still be thousands less than a new 300M or Bonnie.
My track times are with a fully loaded car, full tank of gas, full size spare in trunk and higher than stock tire pressure. If I can hook the tires better next time and lower my 60 foot times I should break high 14s. A few guys from my Impala club run low 13s without NOS and get into 12s with NOS... you should see a car that big move that fast it seems to defy physics.
You may also know that I owned the fastest production car made in '86. The Buick Regal T-type with 3.8 intercooled turbo. It was great to read at the time how upset the Chevy people were with Buick about them surpassing the Vette. I really enjoyed going from 0 - 60 in 4.7 seconds!
I'm not super familiar with the turbo 3.8 but wasn't there at least 2 flavors of that engine. I thought the real stormer hipo one came only in the GNX and that one was the 4.7 to 60 range car. Weren't the others like the T-type and regular GNs more along the lines of high 5 seconds? Either way they were awesome sedans (and yes I'll call them 2 door sedans because they were big and bad)
My hope is that Chrysler will really build the Charger R/T because that is the only car I can see trading in my Impala for. This thing has ruined me for all other cars. My dad's Intrepid ES with autostick and sport suspension is a smaller snail. I hope Dodge supercharges that gem of an engine the 4.7L. I drove a dakota with one of those and man is that a great engine for such small displacement. It even pulls hard down low like a 350.
My neighbor is a nut he traded in his Z06 world beater for a 2001 STS the only thing I like is his HID headlamps which are truely awesome. At least now I can bench race him now that the STS is getting heavier and slower it won't turn high 14s off the showroom floor anymore.
The closest I've come lately to feeling the power that my T-Type had, was when I tested out my neighbor's '00 Camaro SS last week. With 300 HP and 6 on the floor, it moves! I know it's too small for you so maybe you should check out an SSEI!!
Stock front bar was 30mm., and is now 32mm.(1.25"). Stock rear bar was 20mm. hollow, and is now 25mm.(1") solid. The car had rubber frame mount and end link bushings originally, and now they are all polygraphite.
The SSEi feels very well balanced - front to rear. With the P255/45ZR18 tires it will now change lanes hard enough to smash a passenger's head off the side window. Not that we'd ever want to do that to anyone we let ride in our cars...
I have new endlinks for the front, just have not put them on.
Question: I have been having a noise and vibration from the front end, when I turn the wheel at low speeds (i.e. parking lots) I thought maybe the belt got messed up, when they replaced the alternator. I replaced the belt and same thing. Any ideas? Power Steering pump?
No I am not running the cone at the moment. Took it off for vacation. I may slap it back on and see. I need to find time to build the CAI.
With the 3.25 it seems much more responsive at the low end. Have not had a chance to push it yet. I had discaonnected the battery for 2 hours to clear the auto tuning. I wanted to run the car some before I pushed it. I modified the install of the PVI unit. We'll see if it helps, if not I will return it.
By the way, did you use a smaller supercharger belt when you switched to the smaller pulley?
I got Saner to build a prototype 1.25" front bar. His part number is SPFGM25. I also added polyurethane frame mount and end link bushings.
Thanks.
I wonder, do any of you guys take the Bonne to the track? Are you guys getting into the 14s with your pully and exhaust mods? The one thing you have going for you is less weight than my SS. Kinda looks weak when you clean up the front tires in the waterbox though I imagine it is hard to launch a front driver with that torque. With my SS I need to let the suspension set up a bit before I roll into and eventually bury the throttle or I'll burn up the Comp T/As.
The one nice thing about modifying the LT1 is that little things can make a big difference cause they are multiplied over 350 cubes...
Just freeing up the intake and exhaust nets you about 20 rear wheel hp. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the B-body intake but it is sickeningly restricted I pulled mine and use a Camaro elbow connected to PVC that hooks up with the stock airbox. (not the best setup but gets you 90 percent of a $300 system for 50 bucks)
I think it would be big fun to race a few Bonnes at the track who knows when I got on Friday maybe I'll see some. Usually the only big modern 4 doors are GM B-bodies or the ocassional Northstar Caddy.
What are the Grand Prix GTP's posting at your track ? I saw in the Grand Prix site one posted an 11 sec quarter mile!!
The GTPs around here seem to be running low to mid 14s and that is with sticky tires and pulley and exhaust work.
I'm going to the track Friday to see if I can't break the 14s. Talk about heavy my car is 4371 lbs... yikes thank god I have some real torque. I'm eager to put 3.73 gears in but then I'll need some better tires and lower control arms.
The best thing about the Impala is that there is a plethora of aftermarket things for the car. There are people that autocross the Impala with numbers that would humble a stock Corvette.
What does a stock Bonne run these days mid 15s I think? I thought I saw a test in the high 15s I guess its not as fast with the added weight... stock GTPs run about 15 flat.
Someone said that SLP's 'product' is a 5 ohm resistor. According to the Helm manual, that would make the PCM set a code for the temperature being out of range (>212 degrees Fahrenheit) if it replaced, or was in parallel with the IAT sensor. In series, this value of resistor would have no measurable affect (less than one degree difference at all points).
Someone else said that SLP's 'product' is an 8.12k-ohm resistor. This is more believeable because it could have a positive impact. According to the Helm manual, that would make the PCM see a reading 20 to 80 degrees colder (depending on temperature) than actual, if wired in series with the IAT sensor. If wired in parallel, this resistor would send a signal representing a higher than actual temperature (not what we want). If wired to replace the IAT sensor, this resistor would send a constant signal somewhere between 34 and 39 degrees Fahrenheit. This last option is my best guess on what SLP has done, although I have not seen their product.
I myself designed what I thought was a cool little circuit recently. I connected a microswitch to my throttle. Under full throttle, the microswitch would trip a small relay. The relay would then bypass the IAT, and substitute a 52.7k-ohm resistor. This resistor value made the PCM see a temperature of -22 degrees Fahrenheit, which is about as cold as we can go without setting a code. Bottom line was that I could not detect any measurable performance difference.
Does anyone have any additional knowledge of IAT spoofing that I may have overlooked? And, does anyone have any tried and true method of getting better performance in this manner?
Scott - 2000 Dark Bronzemist Metallic SSEi, 18 x 8" Konig Villain wheels, P255/45ZR18 Michelin XGT Z4 Pilot tires, 1.25" front sway bar, 1" rear sway bar, polyurethane frame mount and end link bushings, 3.25" supercharger pulley, 180 degree thermostat, NGK TR55VX spark plugs (gapped at .055")
Off the soap box. IAT spoofing is really aimed at WOT performance. It will only be effective if the fuel system can inject enough fuel to richen up the mixture. Too much is almost as bad as not enough.
I think either a small resistor or repositon the iat to a cooler location (fender wall or front of CAI) would benefit daily driving. Don't want it too rich.
As for the micro switch, I think the sudden change will not be recieved well by the PCM. really need to phase in the tempature change prior to going WOT.
How about a small inline resistor and then a switch to bybass the sensor and the resistor with a 50 kohm or so when you figure to be going wot alot. Would let you give the PCM time to adjust.
As far as not seeing a performance increase, I suspect that is due to the fact you are not running as lean as a lot of the GTPs. Primarily caused by your stock intake. You are not getting as much air as the average mod'd GTP or Doug's SSEi.
Quick test since cooler weather is here. Get the re-0870 filter and the cone filter kit from the gp store. Total cost about $100. Reset the PCM and train it for a tank. Then try the manuever. Though just changing to the cone will be an instant improvement, when the engine is cool.
We both need a CAI. I need to finish building mine or breakdown and buy the thrasher kit to mod like Doug.
Though we can probably do most of the same thing by just by using a fuel pressure riser to boost the amount of fuel being fed to the cylinder and letting the PCM back it off.
I treat my cars very well and keep meticulous records. It turns out though that this maintaining of records only helps ME. I can review situations (like alternator experience) and expenditures, but when I go to trade it in, which is what I've always ended up doing, the dealer couldn't care less about my records. This is probably due to two reasons:
1)Dealers don't get involved in giving maintenance history to buyers of used cars.
2)By the time I'm done with my cars, they have high mileage only worthy of the auction; not the dealer's lot.
How does the car steer? over, under neutral?
Any noticeable ride effect?
No affect on the straight line ride. Significant improvement to transient response, and overall cornering capability (with the traction control turned off), as with the rear bar. This modification is an excellent value for the money.
Intense has both with 18" wheels. I have the rear and just ordered the front.