Pontiac Bonneville

vezini · May 2001

I am looking at the Bonneville for my next car. I have heard that the SE has a little softer ride than the SLE; any comments on that?

bdreggors · May 2001

"60 km/h = 35 mp/h."
Yeah, that might be an explanation

Speaking of metric/imperial speed, I love using that E/M converter button to mess with my friends when they're with me. Usually the scenario is me driving through a notorious speed trap at about 45mph (limit is 55), tapping the button, yelling "check this out!", and flooring it for a few seconds.

Man, you would not believe their faces the first time I did it! Now its getting passe. I need to either think of a new gag or get some new friends.

vtech83 · May 2001

I did a little digging around and I found out that OTC Tools makes a hand-held version of the Tech2 scanner. One little problem -- it's not cheap. The base unit costs $2699. That's a little too rich for me. Hopefully I can find a GM dealer around here that can change a few settings for me.

If anyone is interested, check out the following link:

http://www.aeswave.com/otc/index.htm

Mike

mlm4 · May 2001

I also found this out yesterday. Another problem other than price is that there is a software update service that I think is only available to certified and registered dealers and repair facilities. So even if you buy the tool you will be stuck with the software for '92-'99 models only. And the update software is many hundreds of dollars more, plus you need a 32MB flash card for the latest software and the tool comes with a 10MB card. Another $400-$500.

Maybe someone will come out with a cable and software for a PC that doesn't require the hand-held tool. That would be cool.

I read about OBD-III in the July 2001 issue of GM High Tech Performance magazine. The government and manufacturers are tossing around the idea of broadcasting a diagnostic signal from the PCM to the feds as an alternative to emissions inspections. That leads to some scary privacy issues, but in the interim some inspection stations are starting to use a scan tool to download vehicle performance data instead of hooking up the tailpipe sniffer. The current OBD-II systems have this capability, so it is going to be more difficult to change the PCM settings without getting caught (although things like the DIC greeting or steering effort obviously don't count).

theiceman · May 2001

One of those bad news / good news days. First the bad news: my wife drove the Bonnie into work today and hit a curb (those darned things jump out into the road without any notice). RIP one Eagle-RS-A 235-55-17. Plus: significant abrasion on the lip of the wheel.

With only 6k miles on it, I don't want to replace two tires, so I'm looking for one. I get my dealer working for me and he tells me that the local goodyear rep initially couldn't even find this tire on his price sheets because it's OEM. Eventually found - price? $425 Cdn (=$275 US) incl. taxes. I'm getting it at cost (or about $180 US). And - it's going to take a good couple of days to get the tire I'm looking for up here.

The good news? The dealer's put me up in a 2001 Regal GS until my tire comes in. Now that car goes like stink!

vtech83 · May 2001

theiceman:

I hit a rock in the road the first week I had my car; took the tire right off the rim. Had to get the tire and wheel replaced. Good thing for me was the tire size -- Eagle LS 225/60-16. My dealer had no trouble finding that size.

I've always thought 235/55-17 was an odd tire size. Not many tires available in that size. Reminds me of my 84 Trans Am -- 215/65-15. I think Eagle GTs were the only tire available in that size. It would make more sense to my anyway for OEMs to use more conventional tire sizes.

That Regal does scoot, doesn't it. Almost wish I had bought one. LeSabre has more room and the bucket seats are better. Too bad LeSabre doesn't have the L67.

Good luck.

Mike

vtech83 · May 2001

Every once in a while, I'll try a new product to see how good it really is. Blue Corral Car Wash is the real deal!

They claim that you won't need to dry your car at all after using this stuff. I was a little skeptical about that, but let me tell you, there was hardly any water left on my car after I was done. It only took a few minutes with a terry cloth towel to get the rest of the water up.

Wash a section at a time and then rinse off with a stream of water (don't use any spray attachment). Once you have washed the whole car, rinse it all again with a stream of water. Wait a few minutes and most of the water is gone.

I've used a dozen different car washes before, including the stream of water trick to minimize beading water on the car. Nothing I have used works as well as Blue Corral. It also helps if your car has a good coat of carnuba on it.

Check it out. Should be available at most auto stores.

Mike

snickle · May 2001

Anybody out there own a Black Bonnie SSEi with no door badges? I saw one yesterday parked in Annapolis Junction, MD and wonder if is was anyone on the board.

tpken · May 2001

I'm wondering what happened here - thought I posted to bring along the stabilizer but I don't see the post - maybe I'm losing it! In any case - I've been away from Edmunds for a few days and you're probably en route by now so it may be too late. I'm returning to Maine tomorrow from here in PA - if you see this - please do stop by. I'm in the book for Kittery.

Ken

mfahey1 · May 2001

Good timing, Ken. The van is all packed and it looks like it will take two stabilizer bars to get the tires to sit on the wheelwells. So, since there is only the one bar, I think I can find a place for it and I'll bring it along I tried to fire up our old Apple LCIII for e-mail use in Maine and unfortunately, my daughter(who's almost 23) had tried to reload the operating system without having all of the disks. So, aside from not having enough room in the van for the computer and it needing a new OS, I'll have to mooch off my cousin's computer to stay current with the doings at Edmund's. I'll be in touch so that I can hand it off. You may have the best handling SE around.
A friend of mine, who is a lot older than me, if that's possible, came by last night in the middle of his second childhood or at least adolescence. He was driving a 1968 Olds Cutlass that was a real sleeper with a factory 350-375hp 4-speed that he had just bought from the Volo Museum here in Illinois. He wanted to know if I wanted to drive it and of course, I said I most certainly would. We took it out in the country and I hammered it through the gears to the point where he was looking a little pale. While it was fun to drive a car like that, the comparison between it and the SSEi was pretty amazing to me. It probably was a bit quicker on acceleration due to the gearing but it felt like a lot of show for the amount of go. Also, at 70mph, it started to feel pretty light in the front end over the less than interstate quality roads. He said of all the people that he had let drive the car, I was the only one who had put it through its paces, including him. I offered to let him drive my car on the same road for him to get a feel for the difference that 32 years had made but I think he was still a little wobbly after watching his life flash in front of him.

mfahey1 · May 2001

For the benefit of our Canadian friends, I forgot to mention on the previous post that I wound up having to go to a bunch of extra work due to your tax laws on liquor.
Normally, when I drive to Maine, I stay on the U.S. side simply because it is more direct. Customarily, we take all of life's necessities including an ample supply of Gordon's Gin and Johnny Walker Scotch. So for this trip, I did as I always do and loaded enough for our "needs" and what we need to entertain when we are there. After everything was loaded, it dawned on me that this time, I had decided to stop in Toronto to visit with the people at the Toronto distillery who I had worked with the last several years. Nothing wrong with that except that with the huge differential in taxes on liquor between the two countries and the resultant tremendous problem of smuggling, I realized I had loaded far more than you are allowed across the border. So back out came most everything I had packed so I could get to the booze box. Hopefully, I guessed correctly about how much you can legally take into Canada since I have no desire to be the poster boy of the Customs people in the war on smuggling. Dan, I'll be crossing back into the U.S. at Thousand Islands which isn't too far from you. It would have been fun to see your car and meet you but aside from having to get to Maine to get building permits, I also didn't think you would have been similarly eager to see a 1988 Caravan loaded to the gills.
The Bonneville is resting snugly under my Camaro's car cover since neither is going anywhere fow a couple of months. I'll miss it but that should just make me appreciate it more when we get back to Illinois.

rb8225 · May 2001

Michael- You're not paranoid enough. Check this out!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/15393.html

mlm4 · May 2001

The article in GM High Tech Performance correctly points out that all of the technology to monitor a vehicle's performance already exists - it's just a matter of implementing it. The OBD-II generates the data; GM already makes a data recorder for diagnostic purposes (and apparently more subversive activities); OnStar telematics (cellular and GPS) provides remote control/monitoring and global positioning capabilities. Just imagine, the police would be able to send you a speeding ticket based upon your vehicle broadcasting how fast you were going and where, without ever witnessing it. From a technical perspective, this is all very impressive, but YIKES I hope it doesn't get rammed down the consumers' throats. The Register article just goes to show that this stuff has already begun to happen, and no one is the wiser for it. Yet.

skyhawk3 · May 2001

I did not activate on star immediately. In fact they sent me a reminder. I activated it while driving to Maine. At the time I was on a stretch of 95 between 128 and the NH border, where I usually move about 85+. The on star representative commented during the activation procedure "You're moving rather quickly". I did not comment, but I suspect that in the event of a serious accident there will probably be some sort of log of speed, etc. within the 'black box' of this car that could be displayed.

tpken · May 2001

Ed - where do you live? I travel that I-95 stretch you just referenced on a daily basis but haven't seen your SLE yet - will have to keep my eyes peeled!

Ken

refiner · May 2001

Just got back from So Cal. Was out there for 2 and half weeks. Seen one Bonneville a SLE. Picked up my stage 2 MAF and AFPR from RAT while I was out there. What a outfit.I ordered it four months ago. What fuel pressure is someone with a AFPR running? A good place for cheap tires is tirerack.com they have the Goodyear RSA tires for $129.00 apiece. Intense did you get your PCM reprogrammed thru ASE chips? Just wondered if they had a quick turn around time.

tpken · May 2001

Matt - I bet it was good to get back behind the wheel of your SSEi! What did you have for rental wheels? Hard to believe so few Bonnevilles out there - I see lots of them now in the North-east.

On my way home from PA yesterday I became the Spruce Green filling in a Maple Red SE sandwich! Must have looked like a Pontiac Christmas Tree! I had these new Bonnevilles as travelling companions through northern Connecticut into Mass. A black prior generation SSE joined in the convoy for a while. It's funny - seems like last month I picked up 2 other new SE models in basically the same stretch.

Bonneville hunting has become one of my favorite drive time passtimes.

I wonder how many Mark will see on the way here from Chicago.

Ken

smfran · May 2001

I travel I95 (and all other major roads) all over eastern New England. Keep your eyes out for me in my Midnight Blue 2000 SSEi. When are you going to organize a meet for us in this area?
Stephen

cuzinbrucey · May 2001

It may be too late, but here is a link for the size tire...

http://www.treadepot.com

I have never used them (just used google.com to find them). But they list the tire for $125 US.

Cuzin Brucey

snickle · May 2001

Scott new has his rocker arms available for sale. I will get a set soon I hope. New heads and rocker arms should make a big difference in our cars.

Check out the link:

http://www.clubgp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6358277&FORUM_ID=19&CAT_ID=1

intense01 · May 2001

Matt:

I never did try these folks out yet. I've been too bogged down with heavy duty engine mods. I would say that somewhere around mid-summer I will rethink my position on not being able to go faster than 126 mph...

Scott

theiceman · May 2001

Picked it up today. Cost of tire itself: $285 Cdn. (about $185 US) plus installation and taxes (15% in Ontario!). How does $225 US sound as a grand total? Ouch! Given that my dealer gave me a loaner Regal GS for the two days I was without the Bonneville, I'm happy to buy it this way rather than over the net - but it still hurts!

BTW, the RSA 235/55/17 actually lists for $357 Cdn. (about $230 US) in Goodyear catalogues up here but local Goodyear dealer explains that this is out of date and $370 is more like it. I am suspecting that, given that this is not a commonly stocked tire, that local supplies will not be abundant - nor will discounts.

I have bookmarked the tirerack and tiredepot sites because this experience has started me thinking about tire replacement. My mechanic informs me that 235/55/17 will NOT be an easy size to replace and that the RSA is a damned fine tire - particularly as an all-season high performance tire that works well in snow. Unless I want to get a 2nd set of Hakkepelitas for the winter (yuck!), I might not have much choice on the matter. However, he did say that he could probably put Michelin Pilots on for close to the same price.

According to my mechanic, other than the above 2, the only other tires available in 235/55/17: Bridgestone Turanza Z RevoMichelin Energy MXV4 PlusGoodyear Eagle LS.

I can say that I love the RSA's - very sticky and the built-up sidewalls let you throw the Bonnie into tight corners with confidence, zero squeal and no added roll (that's probably the 55 profile). I cannot compare ride comfort with another tire because the RSA's are all that I've had on this car.

Any recommendations or comments?

vtech83 · May 2001

Ice:

A couple of options. A 255/50-17 tire is about the same circumference as a 235/55-17. Seems like there is a bigger selection in that size. I'm not sure if a 255-series tire will fit on your rims or not. I think the Bonnie has 17x7.5 wheels. Another option is to move up to 18x8 wheels. Expensive, but then you could use 255/45-18 tires. I think intense01 has that setup.

Good luck.

Mike

tpken · May 2001

Stephen -

Did you happen to be driving north on I-95 in the Georgetown to Newbury Mass area on Sunday afternoon somewhere around 3 p.m.? If not, I saw your car's twin as I headed south to PA. I remember thinking it was the first SSEi or SLE I had seen in that color - very nice by the way.

I'd love to see a Bonneville meet in our area too - maybe a Sunday afternoon sometime in late June? I'll help but can't do it all. How wide shall we open the invitation? Based on participation in NJ, I think it would be good to get a buy in from a few other car types to make it the most fun. I'd like to see Grand Prix, Impala, Regal, Aurora and Intrigue, and Cadillac join us - what are your thoughts?

Ken

theiceman · May 2001

Forgot to mention that I was opportunistic enough to have them reprogram my and my wife's name (her name is Daryl - and, unlike our fair Xena on this board, that is her real name). So, they are now centered and we've gotten rid of those colsarned vertical lines.

Nice touch - my boss commented on it today.

theiceman · May 2001

Thanks for the 18 in. suggestion but I'm not sure that I'd like the expense (of new wheels), the look or the ride. On the other hand, it could let me put performance snows on the 17" rims and keep a real performance touring tire on the 18" ones.

Has anybody else done this - and lived to tell the tale?

BTW, spoke with my dealer today & thanked them for all their help with the tire. As we got talking, something didn't sound right to him and it turns out that I may have been over-charged by about $50 Cdn. (about $32-35 US) so I'll be getting a refund.

Surgenor Pontiac Buick GMC - best dealership in the Ottawa area (IMHO).

This was an unscheduled visit to the dealer but it was at the 6000 mile mark, so I had them change the oil (58% life left according to the DIC oil life monitor). Unfortunately, because it was unscheduled, I didn't bring any synthetic with me - we'll have to wait until the next one.

We're heading into our first warm-weather holiday weekend this weekend (Queen Victoria Day - rather quaint, 'tisn't it?) so I hope to make some headway on that "honey do" list.

Have a good one yourselves! Dan

smfran · May 2001

No, it wasn't me on Sunday in that neck of the woods. I was with my mother in Framingham. As far as a meet goes, I wonder who else involved in these Bonneville discussions would be interested.

Henry · May 2001

Let me know so that my Olds and I can crash the party.

Don't worry, I'll keep the car in second gear.

intense01 · May 2001

Took the SSEi to the track yesterday, and got five runs in. My best three looked like this:

2.169 9.218 @ 76.94 14.242 @ 97.45
2.197 9.202 @ 77.82 14.230 @ 98.48
2.255 9.188 @ 78.26 14.163 @ 98.50

Scott
2000 SSEi
Stock: 15.800 @ 89.60
4/14/01: 14.555 @ 94.75 mph
5/19/01: 14.163 @ 98.50 mph

tpken · May 2001

Hey if I can get to NJ - you're certainly welcome up here in these parts

Ken

boosted1 · May 2001

intense01

You are a true pioneer.

Keep up the good work, you are paving the way for the rest of us. As soon as my warranty is up I will be trying to keep up with you.

theiceman · May 2001

Those are some darned impressive numbers for a heavy FWD vehicle. I've forgotten what kind of rubber/wheel setup you're using - or do you keep a 2nd set for track use?

theiceman · May 2001

Here's something of mild interest: I was in Carpoint recently and checked in on the reviews of the '00 Bonneville. On the whole, they're very good - an average of 8.8/10. I thought I saw a pattern and dug a bit. Firstly, about 40% rank our cars as 9.5/10 or better and only 13% give their cars less than a 8/10 over all and there were no scores under 6.

While SE owners are, on average, somewhat less generous in their scores than owners of SLE's and SSEi's, the gap between their appraisals and the others is less than 3%.

These numbers fare well against those of the '00 Toyota Avalon (8.8), BMW 3 series (8.6), BMW 5 series (8.8) and Acura TL (9.0). Where the Bonnie falls short of these others? The interior. We give ours an 8.4 whereas the others attract 9.2, 9.0, 8.9, and 8.6. Does this give you any ideas about where Pontiac should focus future improvements?

Although the sample size is small (116 cars for the Bonneville) and unscientific, it's probably every bit as good as what Consumer Reports uses.

skyhawk3 · May 2001

I would be interested in a meet in the New England area.

Does everyone follow the suggested schedule for rotating tires?

theiceman · May 2001

I certainly folow it - the advantages are that they last longer, the ride and traction stay better longer and you reduce the likelihood of putting your suspension "out of tune".

intense01 · May 2001

Thanks for the positive feedback guys! It's nice to get a little recognition every now and then.

By the way, I forgot to mention how fun it was to run 14.16 while at least three newer Mustangs (two slightly modified GTs and one stock Cobra) were all running 14.30 to 14.70...

My everyday tire/wheel combination is 18 x 8 Konig Villains with P255/45ZR18 tires. For the track, I put some 17 x 8 Konig Villains with P275/40R17 Nitto Drag Radials on the front. They don't make much difference right now because I don't have much of a traction issue off the line (yet).

Scott

vtech83 · May 2001

Keep going -- thirteens are right around the corner. You're approaching stock TransAm/Z28 times with a 3600lb front wheel drive car. Unreal!

Mr. LeSabre

kzm · May 2001

If you ditch the rear seat cushion along with the spare tire that may get you over the hump.

KZM

refiner · May 2001

Got the Stage 2 and AFPR in today. Haven't got a chance to run it with the monsoons here. To anyone that has one how soon before the check engine light goes out? And how much fuel pressure are you running? Matt

ginman3 · May 2001

Since I couldn't remember my password from home, I registered under a new name from my cousin's computer in Maine. I've been incommunicado for the last week travelling so it was good to see what was happening in Bonneville land. I think in my whole 1250 mile trip out here that I only saw one Bonneville and that was in Michigan. Either I'm not very observant or there really aren't that many out there. Of course, in Maine you're nobody unless you have a 4 wheel drive or a Subaru.
I'm fascinated by the fact that Scott can achieve those times with front wheel drive and without any form of positraction. How do the pocket rocket/rice burners do it since when I've seen them on television, they are spinning both tires up front? Scott, what are your shift points set at?
Ken, how can I contact you about delivering the stabilizer bar?

Mark

intense01 · May 2001

Matt:

The Stage II and RAT AFPR should NOT set any codes whatsoever.

You'll want to get an Autotap or Tech II and see what code(s) you're setting as soon as possible. This way you can determine how bad the situation is, and also formulate an action plan to rectify the situation.

As far as fuel pressure goes, I don't really know what mine is set to, because I haven't yet verified the accuracy of the Casper's gauge. It showed 46 psi static stock, even though my manual said the stock setting should be 52 psi. Regardless, I have it set to 58 psi for maximum performance, which is 12 pounds over my stock setting, and may actually be as high as 64 psi.

Let me know what code(s) you have, and we'll figure out how to proceed. By the way, you may want to reset your PCM if you haven't already...

Mark:

My shift points are still stock, as I still have the stock PCM. I get the best performance by leaving the shifter in '3', and letting it shift when it feels like it - usually 5,600 to 5,800 RPM.

Scott

tpken · May 2001

Can you email me? My address is in the profile. I'll give you my phone number then.

Ken

refiner · May 2001

Scott, The instructions that came with the Stage 2 said the SES light would come on till the PCM adjusted to it. But it sounds like your SES light didn't come on. I'll try to have it checked out today. Thanks Matt

tpken · May 2001

Has anyone noticed if there is a way to defeat the daytime running lights? Over in the Impala forum someone mentioned that they need to turn off lights when entering a military base and couldn't figure out how to do so. It got me wondering about our cars. I see that I cannot turn mine off either.

If you turn on the headlight switch for parking lights, the DRL remain on (apparantly this defeats DRL in some cars - not mine). When the auto headlight sensor thinks it's dark enough, the regular lights come on - so again you have headlights on, though not DRL.

Anytime the car is in gear it appears that either DRL or headlights will be on.

I don't have a need to defeat them - just wondering.

Any comments?

Ken

homer2000ssei · May 2001

Actually - while I almost always turn my headlights on - yes, during the day - i too am interested in an easy solution to the constant lighting feature. I switched all my bulbs to "brite white" and like the blueish color of them , but sometimes I would like to have them off when the mood strikes.

Henry · May 2001

Okay you Bonne Boys have got me thinking. All this talk about the MagnaSteer being adjustable has got me wondering about my HUMBLE Aurora. Talk has it that the 2001 Aurora has Magnasteer II which is adjustable. The question is whether the Magnasteer on the Classic (94-99) is adjustable. Is every Bonneville that has magnasteer adjustable, or is it only certain years? If there is a 1995 Bonne with magnasteer that is adjustable, the future would look good for my humble 1995 Aurora.

ALL opinions are welcome.

Henri

mlm4 · May 2001

Ken,

You piqued my curiosity. I think DRL is a great idea, but I have never liked the fact that it is fully automatic. As the pilot I think I should have ultimate control over such things as lighting (at least I have the ability to defeat the automatic door locks!). Anyway, I went digging through the service manual and learned the following:

The DRL will operate when the ignition switch is in the ON position, the gear selector lever is out of the PARK position and the ambient light sensor indicates daytime conditions. I haven't checked, but I think on my car turning the headlamp switch to the PARK position will turn the DRL off as it does the headlamps at night. Of course, the parking lights will now be on.

The only way I can see to disable DRL is to pull the FOG/DRL fuse (located in the underhood fuse block), which will still allow the high beam headlamps and flash-to-pass to operate, but will unfortunately also disable the front fog lamps (the Aurora is the only one with rear fog lamps). You can't pull the DRL relay because it is part of the high beam headlamp circuit, and it might also cause a DTC.

The rest of this post is probably Too Much Information, but maybe someone will be interested. In DRL mode, the left and right high beam headlamps are placed in series. Remembering your elementary circuit theory, assuming the resistance of each lamp is the same the voltage will be split evenly between the two lamps, causing them to burn at half intensity. In high beam or flash-to-pass mode, the lamps are placed in parallel, allowing the full battery voltage to cross both lamps. The circuit switching is done by the Dash Integration Module (DIM), which is one the many microprocessors aboard the new Bonnevilles. Chances are the logic is in software. That opens up the possibility that the DRL feature is "user" configurable. The service manual describes reprogramming the DIM, which is done after it is replaced. This is the same procedure the dealer uses to change the Magna Steer setting and the DIC greeting. The manual describes the various menus the Tech 2 scan tool will display during this process, including two called "Miscellaneous Options #1" and "#2". Unfortunately, it does not describe the options other than to say "follow...the on screen instructions." Without a scan tool or more detailed documentation, I can only speculate that there may be an option to enable or disable the DRL. If I were designing this, I would put that option in. On the other hand, since GM considers DRL to be a safety feature, they may not have the provision to disable the DRL. Perhaps someone with access to a scan tool can enlighten us?

smfran · May 2001

I definitely follow the recommended rotation schedule. It allows for balanced wear and I always notice improved ride after rotation.

tpken · May 2001

Mike - I tried turning the headlamp switch to Park as you mentioned - but no - it did not turn off DRL - just added parking lights.

You've got to be right - no way to defeat it short of pulling the fuse. I don't have any need for that and enjoy having the driving lights on when the car is in gear - but I agree it is better to have the ultimate authority over the vehicle.

Ken

Henry · May 2001

Pontiac Bonneville

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