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Pontiac Bonneville
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Yes my email is unchanged so please do drop a note when you can.
Hope all in the northeast are prepared for the deep freeze again after a couple days respite. I'm becoming intimately aquainted with how to diagnose and solve frozen pipe situations!
I'll drop you a line sometime. Take it easy there tpken.
Now, another issue that has been endemic to the H-bodies is a resilient vibration at a specific speed, between 65 and 70MPH in my case, that refuses to go away with wheel balancing. After replacing loose tie rods, the issue was still there, and after road force balancing, the dealer concluded that the tires were bad and that they'll be replaced under warranty. So far, so good. But is this the actual fix? Now, to those who work in the dealer service area, can I get to choose the tire of my liking, must it be like the original tire or must I accept whatever they get?
TIA
They may be getting tires that are road force checked from the factory (GM). Those may have variation of I believe 17 or less in order to be shipped out to use to correct problems. My OEM Symmetrys have 12 as the highest, 7, 3, 4, after the one tire was rotated on the rim after checking about 17 or so, at the maximum allowed.
Also you may want to have the front end carefully aligned. I had observed that after work on the tires and balance, on long sloping uphill grades I would feel the persistent repetitive vibration in the steering and my feet. My tires show a little edge wear with all the blocks wearing in one direction. The service manager said they were sensitive to too much toein. He checked toe and reset front and back; front was toed in slightly more than he wants, and back was off. Now this vibration was so little my wife probably never noticed it on that trip, but I could feel it come and go on the Tennessee I65 slopes between Louisville and Nashville.
If I were you I push for Symmetrys, even if it meant a copayment, but I'm partial to Michelins. Note that my original balance moved with tires, it's not wheel hub/bearing runout, where the problem was the same even when I rotated the wheels at home from front to back.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The other thing I've had to fix was the pop-up wind deflector for the sunroof, it got crunched one day when I was closing the roof. The new one has a different design, I guess they figured out there was a problem with the old one. The rear edge of the sunroof was also sagging and I was able to adjust it up flush with the roof but it's at the limit of the adjustment so I hope it doesn't sag any more. Still love the car, the styling is still fresh to me.
I've had an XM Satellite Radio receiver in the truck for two years but in the Bonnie I was having withdrawls so I put a Delphi Roady into it. I can't find a place to mount the darn thing, though, so it just sits on top of the cup holder cover (despite the small holder I like the old-style flip cover). Rocks with the Bose system.
Drooling over the GXP but also the new 'Vette, can't decide whether to keep the SSEi, upgrade to the GXP or go for the Corvette. Decisions, decisions...
ice
But then we can't all live where there are seasons!!! Some of us are luckier!!!
Have you rotated the tires on the Bonnie? If not rotated at 6-7K, depending on load and alignment they might have worn unevenly. Then if moved from back to front, you may feel that uneveness.
Otherwise, my point is that you might have a belt defect in a tire that you're feeling when starting out cold ( cool in Florida ).
Might be time for an alignment check. Realign only if truly out at extremes of alignment tolerances. Most shops use "checks" as a way to sell alignments because one spec will be off some from center. (Toe-in could cause a problem and still drive nicely.)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Bonneville is an SLE, wearing 235/55R17 tires, which narrows the choices quite a bit: it seems that I'll have to settle for a new set of Eagle RS-A. It's OK, a new set after 30000mls is not that a bad deal...
I do miss the winter and snow and change of seasons and dread the long Florida summers, but the weather right now is picture-perfect, so I shouldn't complain! :-)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yours sounds more dramatic. On an interstate or four lane divided highway where the left lane drains water to the middle or median, does the car seem neutral or have a left drift if you take hands off the wheel?
I suspect an alignment is needed by someone who understands problems in that car model -- not the quickly slam-bam thank you type done at some pushy tire or muffler places...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not for everybody but I'm a big fan.
However, I could find only 7 all-season tires available at Tire Rack with speed ratings S, T or H ( http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width- - =235%2F&ratio=55&diameter=17&search=true&pagelen=- - 20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=14&y=14&speed_ratin- - g=SR&speed_rating=TR&speed_rating=HR ): 1 Continental, 2 Michelin, 2 Goodyear, 1 Dunlop and 1 Pirelli. The only ones rated among the best in their respective categories were the Continental, ContiPremierContact, and the Dunlop, SP Sport A2.
The Dunlop had many complaints about tread wear and the Continental had less than 5000mls reported, so it doesn't seem to be a general consensus. But I'll keep an eye on it.
I have the impression that 17" tires are more common in +1 or +2 sizes, mostly with very low profiles (45 or 50).
My Intrigue uses 225/60R16, which seemed to me to be ubiquitous when I needed new ones 6 months ago: plenty of choices.
I had replaced my original Firestone Affinities at 40K miles when they were absolute junk - vobrating badly and worn unevenly. I put on Goodyear Aquatread IIIs which were phenomenal in rain as one would suspect and also on dry pavement but vibrations started again after about 15K miles. The tire shop noticed the tires were feathering - particularly in the rear but with time and rotations they evened out however the vibrations never totally disappeared. I guess I just don't get too excited about minor vibes so I lived with them till this past Dec when they had 45K on them and were performing poorly in snow. I now have Symmetrys and they seem smooth and quiet. But yes there is still a perceptible but very minor vibe at highway speeds up to 75 or so, then it disappears.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.gsp9700.com gives you more info on the road force balance, and a locator to find shops near you that have this machine and can do it for you (the G and H bodies, like Aurora, Seville, LeSabre, and Bonneville, are sensitive to minor tire variations which the road force balance can help cure).
Hope this helps,
--Robert
Aurora owner who pays $50 to have all 4 of his tires road force balanced.
Hammen2 - Thanks for the link. I found several shops in my area so I guess I'll give it a try. Printed out lots of info to read up on first.
http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/300c/index.htm
It's personally not my cup of tea.
I think the price on the Bonneville GXP is too high, unless we see mega incentives. For that $$$ I'd look at a CTS or even a GTO (comparing apples to oranges here :-)
Ken, I agree with you re: past Chrysler reliability. My dad was a Mopar man from the 30's through the 70's, but I had more problems with being stranded by Chrysler products (from a 1981 Omni I used to own when I was a poor starving college student, to a 1995 minivan I rented) that I don't know if I could seriously consider one without having my sanity questioned :-)
--Robert
It looks more like a boxed off cheese grater- nothing left to the imagination (IMO)
That said, I did a comparison on MSN between the 300C and the GXP-the GXP is more expensive and the 300C has more HP but to me two things come into play here- style and reliability.
Obviously, if you had bad experiences owning a prior make your going to be inclined to purchase the opposite based on that.
Unfortunately, I'm not in the market myself right now to purchase either car brand new and even if I were I'd probably lean toward what Ken suggested- go with a car 1 or 2 years old ETC.
but if I could buy new, I'd go with a new Bonneville not the Chrysler.
I come from a Chrysler car owning family also-
65 Plymouth Barracuda, 66,67,69 Plymouth Fury 3's,66,69 Chrysler Imperials,- 70 Dodge Coronet(THIS ONE WAS THE BEST- NEVER LEFT HOME WITHOUT THE OLD SCREWDRIVER ON THE FRONT SEAT TO KEEP THE BUTTERFLY OPEN CAUSE THE DARN THING ALWAYS NEEDED HELP TO START!!!!LOL!!!!)
*AND ALL OF OUR CHRYSLERS- ("PLEASE DON'T RAIN!!!!")
Anyone who ever owned a Chrysler from the 60's,70's knows what I mean- that sickening WHINING SOUND from the starter as the car struggled to turn over because of the moisture,humidity etc. UGH!!!!
We owned our share of GM cars also- but I would have to honestly say (again, in my opinion) that the GXP is the better looking vehicle- reliability between both cars is the unknown element right now.
Reliability between GM vs Chrysler- GM wins.
I agree with the comments on the Hunter GSP9700 balancer. I had balancing problems on my ’98 Trans Am that several dealers and tire shops could not resolve until I found a shop with the Hunter balancer. That was the solution.
But I have to admit that I've been happy despite a few things and some of these things - like the interior - Pontiac has not improved in the 4 years since they introduced the current Bonneville. So, while I will definitely consider the GXP next year, I will have an honest look at all the competition. Will one of those be the 300M? Maybe - but the large-mouth-bass-[non-permissible content removed]-subway-vent grille will have to grow on me first.
But stranger things have been known to happen in Chateau Ice...
Those who buy it are likely to be quite happy with it, however. Nice mill under the hood.
Guys, don't get me wrong on this: I still love my Bonnie and still rate it as the best 4 door sedan I have owned. It is certainly better than my '92 Mazda 929 but it should be: it's 8 years newer. But the Bonneville is, in many ways, less refined than that 8 year older car - more NVH and less well-designed interior (particularly the dash and the door panels).
But the Bonnie is a more visceral experience - it has gobs of low-end torque courtesy the much-maligned 3.8 (keep in mind that mine is the non s/c version). Case in point: I have a stoplight reference point that I've been using for the past decade or so just to cut loose every once in a while. I occasionally let my cars rip from a standing stop and check my speed when I hit the next intersection (it's a country road and there's rarely any traffic so it's safe...). I don't know the distance because that's not the point - it's a consistent reference point and I just like to let it rip. The 195 hp 929 used to hit 105 km/h at that point - my '95 Camry V6 a little less (somewhere between 100 and 105 IIRC). The Bonnie? 120+ easy. And, what's more, it's easy to control the entire time. That little stunt with the Camry is how it earned the name "The Wanderer" in our household.
But for all of the Bonnie's admirable traits, there are warts: to me, it's primarily that the central dash instrument stack is not up to par. The material used for the dash cover itself are fine but that centre stack! It's primarily those cheap grey plastic Sunfire knobs and radio controls but it's not just that - the stack just lacks a sculpted feel. And the those dash vents - sheesh! I know the car is supposed to be "luxury with attitude" and I don't want the attitude scrapped but I want GM to spend more time getting the "luxury" thing right: it's not just amenities (which the Pontiac has in gobs) and materials (which they have mostly right) but elegance of the design as well. And this is the Achilles heel.
I guess what I'm saying is that I personally would prefer an "elegance with attitude" - that would be a balance that would keep me in a Bonnie. And the GXP is miles closer on that balance - just a little more $ on the interior (and maybe RWD?) and I'll be ordering an '05 GXP.
The TL? Well, it impressed me 3 years ago - but lost out to the Bonnie's more visceral nature and more roomy interior. The '04 TL is a huge improvement and is definitely a competitor - but, while certainly more elegant and a strong performer, it lacks the attitude quotient. But frankly, attitude without cojones is simply delusional.
Long post - my bad.
ice
But it always baffles me that no one in the press points out to the TL and TSX copying the Bonnie's front-end...
GXP had better be good.
Now about those materials... Iceman, I do agree with you about the gray plastic buttons and knobs (also called "chiclets"). While those are fine for Sunfires and Vibes, Pontiac really should get rid of the gray plastic and find materials that are more upscale to the eyes and to the touch for their cars that sticker for more than $25000. The chiclets truly cheapen the center stack and steering wheel of what is otherwise a comfortable and well-designed interior. For the knobs and buttons, Pontiac should look to Cadillac or Saab for inspiration.
To answer your stereo question: the stereo in the Bonneville is better than the the GP's - but only marginally. IMHO, neither are industry leaders. Plus, I understand that's well nigh impossible to upgrade stereos in either and get the steering wheel controls to work.
WRT should you trade: It depends if you're itching to get into something newer or different - or just want a s/c for the extra power or something to play with (a lot of guys here swap the s/c pulley to play with the boost and hike the ponies).
To be honest, you're really not getting that much extra room with the Bonnie, so I wouldn't base a decision on this point. But, if you do want to trade, you'll get even more and better features and a more powerful and safer car: check out the NHTSA and IIHS rating - the Bonneville is one of the best on the road. PERIOD. And, for me, that counted for a lot as the Bonnie is our primary kid mover. WRT safety, the SSEi has stability control and its traction control is all-speed (vs. low-speed only in the GP). Finally, it is without question a far better fitted-out and more solid vehicle overall (my wife has an '01 GP GT and we definitely prefer the ride of our SLE).
So, those are the good things. The question that only you can answer is if those things are compelling enough to pay a difference in a trade (and an upgrade to premium fuel after the switch), whether or not your current ride's reliability is strong, etc.
FWIW, up here, you could probably engineer such a trade for the equivalent of about $US 7k - perhaps you can do better in your neck of the woods?
I don't want to sound harsh here as most cars' centre stacks do little for me: for example, the new Acura TL's is dominated by these two, large goofy-looking stainless knobs that destroy an otherwise bland stack.
Here's one I could live with:
And another (the Mazda 6):
The Maxima:
Yes, I would prefer these in black (the stainless look seems way too trendy to me) but it's not the materials - it's how the controls are integrated into the stack. OTOH, I wonder how usable some of these things are when you're driving - having too many small buttons concentrated into too small a space doesn't exactly allow you to find things without taking your eyes off the road.
Here's one (the Passat) where the switchgear is nice but the overlook is unimpressive (IMHO):
Now, I've always liked how Volvo deals with it:
But, in the end, I confess that I haven't found another that isn't without aesthetic or ergonomics that I can't pick at. I guess I'll just never be happy... ;-)
(Warning- Editorial follows)
I rarely get time to participate in these discussions.
I've been anxiously awaiting the 04 GXP to replace (maybe) my 00 SSEi.
The GXP appears to be nothing more than a child whose father is an SSEi and mother is an Aurora.
The 275 Hp engine is almost insulting. My modded 00 is running about 300Hp.
Reports are that 04 may be the end of the Bonneville line due to lagging sales (duh!).
All it would take is to dump the big Northstar in the GXP, put a GPS dispaly/radio in the center console, find a way to cover up those stupid open cup holders and go back to the more supportive bucket seats in th 97-99 SSEi. (BTW - Who's idea was the suede inserts in the seats??)
I find it interesting the Pontiac contiues to compare its top of the line to the Chrysler 300M. Why not the 300C? This is just what they did in the test drive of the 2000.
I would rather keep my 2000 SSEi for 10 years rather than buy a 300 (something to do with coming of driver age in the 60s)
The Maximas (we won't even talk about the Altima), Acuras, Infiniti's and now the 300C are all going to outshine a potentially exciting car, but, the powers that be at GM (especially Powertrain)are somewhere in a boardroom discussing lagging sales.
Those of you truly interested in a new High Performance Bonny need to start emailing, mailing or calling Pontiac else..it will all be a memory soon.
Ben
I don't know what to make of the thin central stack in the S40 with an empty space behind it. Interesting, but until I see one personally, I'm not sure how it fits the interior.
Maxima, not. What WERE they thinking?
It just seems that there are two many bright components broken up by black. Agreed that the Max doesn't pull it off either but I think the Infiniti G35 and the Mazda 6 do a better job. Problem with all of them is that the centre stack isn't driver tilted at all - advantage Bonneville in this respect at least.
I'll be checking out the TL - like the specs and the reviews. Hard to quibble with a car which targets the 530i for performance - and bests it for size.
ice
No probs Jason. BTW, the dash is far better in the Bonnie than the GP - far more solid. For example, the bar of trim that horizontally bifurcates the centre stack in the Bonneville is far more solid than similar trim in the GP. We note that in extreme cold (like we're having now), there are almost no creaks in the Bonneville - can't say the same thing about the GP.
FYI, here are a couple of safety links for the Bonneville:
IIHS - best pick in offset crash test.
NHTSA - a 4/5/4/4 rating (which is not excellent but, considering the weight of the Bonneville, probably means it would outperform a lighter smaller 5 star rated vehicle.
While you're at those sites, look up the GP - it's okay but doesn't command those ratings (for example, the '01 gets a 4/4/2/3 in the NHTSA ratings - I doubt that the '99 was better. Plus, the GP is a somewhat lighter vehicle than the Bonnie - although no lightweight.
ice
The stereo in my SSEi is the 8-speaker Monsoon system, which is the same system I had in my '98 TA. I've been pretty impressed with it's sound quality and bass capability. Certainly better than my wife's Bose system in her GTP. Of course the Monsoon system can't compete with those ear-drum busting "thumpers" that some kids put in their cars, but if you don't need a sound system that will shatter your glasses while you are driving, the Monsoon system performs nicely.
Pontiac seems to be very committed to Grand Prix and G6, particularly with the potential of a high-performance Grand Prix G/XP coming in '05 and a G6 convertible in '05 or '06 to supplement the Solstice roadster. Time will tell if Bonneville will get a redesign. If advance press is any indication, the reception that the G/XP is getting may be a good sign of a new day for the Bonnie. Here's hoping that strong sales follow.
Time will tell.
BTW - I drove an 04 Max SE and although I loved the spaciousness inside, the door panels in particular were really cheap feeling to the touch. The seats, OTH, were remarkably comfortable. Same for the Infinity G35 seats - a pleasure to settle into for a road trip. The ride is what hurts both of those particular vehicles - way too firm if you're used to a smooth riding Bonnie. The Max GLE does ride smoothly and still has the throttle response for a kick - I drove an old style '03 and LOVED it.
Going to have to take out a new Maz 6 soon - that's one that is very appealing and quite affordable. Maybe this weekend.
Great to see all the discussion here now.
Ice - Please refrain from blowing more cold air this way. We've had plenty already!!
As far as those shiny faux metal dashboards, I have a friend who just bought a Crossfire and I found that the sun reflected off all that pretty metal right into my eyes! Not pleasant when driving. Beautiful car, but it doesn't have the muscle to back up that brawny styling, and I can't drive it on a sunny day! ;-)
I've said it before but one of the things that appeals to me about the Bonneville is that it is what's left of Detroit's full-size sedans, and I'm not keen on them downsizing it too much more than they already have. I think a BMW 3-Series or Jaguar X-Type would be just right for me in terms of performance, styling and feature content if only they were not so cramped inside, especially in the back seat (not that I spend much time there). I'd like to see the Bonneville live on with a V-8 and RWD but not like a Crown Victoria!
Michael, I hadn't even considered the reflection off the aluminum - of course you're right. In any case, I find it way too trendy and expect that it'll be gone within 5 years - not enough to date cars with a small amount of alum/stainless trim but certainly those which overdo it won't look so good. I wonder how the stuff is WRT showing dust, dirt, and fingerprints (I mean, compared with the traditional black instrument stacks.)