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Pontiac Bonneville

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Comments

  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    I really wish an American company made that car, the 300C is unbelievable in both style and power. Hemi? 340 hp? 35k? look at the badass wheels, the interior looks wonderful IMO. It is just horrible that the Germans can make cars that are more American than we can. Geeeeez.

    quite frankly, looking at the 300C also makes me wish Pontiac made a better attempt with the GXP. The Northstar engine they used should blow the Hemi away in terms of refinement, but the engine is too expensive and not as powerful, attributes that in this category of cars, ppl would be turned off by, me included. High power/low price is king. If i wanted refinment, i'd get a CTS (v6 but still).

    The GXP has no Nav system (as far as i know) and is FWD. Dam. Im not knocking it, the GXP looks good, clean and refined appearance, but the all American bravado from the Gerhard Shreoder 300C kinda has it whipped :(

    Well, from a specs/observers point of view thats my 2 cents, what do you guys think?
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    lol - the sun reflection factor off that metal on the stack as well as steering wheel has to be a monumental goof! And can you imagine accidentally touching it on a typical Fla Aug day??? YOUCH!! They must not have heard about the McDonalds coffee lawsuit!!!!

    Michael - I will be delighted to bring you a big box full of cold New England air! You can put it in your freezer and take some out whenever you need it.

    I totally agree with your size comments. Size DEFINITELY matters! LOL The Bonneville feels like the absolutely perfect size to me. I don't like the cramped feeling you get in a car of smaller dimensions - particularly in width. Personal breathing and stretch space is a luxury too! I've had many cars this size - they used to be called 'intermediates' 30 years ago -like my '74 Olds Cutlass coupe, a '78 Chrysler LeBaron, even my first car - an old (even then) 65 Impala - all relatively the same size as this 'full sized' Bonneville. It just feels right. Our other vehicle today is a Suburban - like your Tahoe. Next to those big boys this Bonneville is downright small!
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    Has production started?
    I seem to remember a Nov. or Dec. timeframe for initial dealer ordering . . .
    Anyone seen one at a dealer?
    - Ray
    Just curious . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    Nothing beats the space, comfort and practicality of my Tahoe, and it is my vehicle of choice for road trips. Although I don't use 4WD very much, it's what makes the truck a "go anywhere" vehicle. Over the weekend I got stuck in a traffic jam on I-95 and for awhile considered making an (illegal) U-turn over the median, which was under construction but passable with the 4x4. I didn't do it, but it was nice knowing I could if I wanted to. Last summer I took it on a trip down a historic section of the Old Dixie Highway ( http://h_body.home.att.net/olddixie.htm ) and needed 4WD to get out of the sand when I went to turn around for a photo op. Could not have made that trip in the Bonneville.

    I got the Bonneville to have something fun and zippy for getting around town when the weather's nice. My ex-girlfriend had an Alero which was a great car -- I thought of it as a baby-Bonnie -- and was also fun and quite comfortable up front but the back seat is not a place I would want to cram three adults into on the lunch run. I agree, the Bonnie is the perfect size for a sedan. Besides, this is America, where bigger is better! (IMHO, ;-)

    GXP production should have begun by now, I was expecting to see the cars showing up in early February. I was a little disappointed that the only tri-coat paint color is white-gold; an early press release indicated that there would be at least three tri-coat colors. At least they should have made the original show car color (Graystone) a tri-coat.
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    According to my dealer. I'm already down for a 24 hour test drive. I'll have to pick a day with bare roads - might wait until March - and you can bet I'll report here.

    ice
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Michael - fascinating travelogue there. I can imagine those PAckards and Duesenbergs passing each other with flappers waving as they went to and from the old Ponce De Leon hotel in St Augustine and other grand hotels.

    Is there much scenery to view along the drive or is it mostly lined with tall trees as in those pics?

    Great looking Tahoe BTW - looks like you can go anywhere with those tires!
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    The scenery on that stretch of road is pretty much just trees. Ain't much out there now...

    I imagined more along the lines of Model T's. I think the rich folk rode Flagler's railroads to those grand old hotels. :-)
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    My dealer says he's had no word on exactly when they'll start showing up other than sometime in "early February." He has two confirmed orders already from current SSEi drivers. When those GXP's arrive I can look at them, but can't drive them. We have had a long time relationship so he said he'd order another one to my specs on a "no obligation" deal wherein he'll let me drive it for a couple days, and if I want to buy it, fine, and if I don't fine, he'll just park it in the showroom. Can't pass up that offer. I'll say more later.
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    And a nice reminder of your H Body site - I hadn't seen your Bonnie tips before. Obviously a labour of some passion - in any case, thanks for building the site. A job well done!
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    ...has not been updated in months. Not that I lost interest, I just ran out of things to add to it. One of these days, I'll update it.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I too am surprised that major automotive magazines have not shown any interest at all towards the new Bonneville. I guess most of the experts think it is a discounted Cadillac Deville in terms of ride and handling. Pontiac could have made the car interesting if they redesigned the exterior to match the engine and horsepower upgrade. Also they could have put the higher horspower Northstar V8 instead of the base one. 320 sounds a lot better than 275.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    an all new interior would help.

    or, they could have pilfered the entire Aurora interior.

    they did a good job decladding the car and putting a proper engine in it.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    I've been putting this off for over a year- been replacing anti-freeze gradually every 2 to 3 weeks- about 4 oz.- using Gold Seal Stop Leak which gave me this extra year- thought I had it stopped cause it held up most of the summer- but its starting in again and the system has been pressurized at least three times in the past year and no outward signs of leaking- had new water pump installed also last year.
    I got 2 separate estimates- one from my local mechanic that I've been using for years- $400.00 to $450.00 Approx.- complete-upper and lower replacement- clean-flush engine if necessary, new oil/filer etc. and one from the Pontiac Dealership-that we use for my wife's 2003 Grand Prix. The Dealership's estimate was DOUBLE- around $885.00
    Needless to say- the car goes in this Thursday at my local mechanic's for the repair at the lower cost of $400 to $450.00
    I don't think there is any other engine problems from this as the car is running very well- no overheating- hesitation, starting problems whatsoever.

    I just feel that i've been playing Russian Roulette and based on all the info I've been reading about people needing NEW Engines etc.-I think I pushed the envelope far enough.

    Anyonelse get this fixed recently?
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    I got this service performed by the dealer while still under warranty. So far, 13000mls later, so good.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    What year is your car and what was the mileage on your car when you had this done?
    Just curious. It seems there is no set average in regards to age of the cars, make or mileage. If it has the 3800 Series II engine, sooner or later your going to have a problem
    Mine is a 98 SSE with 85,300 now, but the leaking probably started with around 70,000 to 75,000 on it.-just nursed it this last year.
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    Chuck, how similar is this condition to the one that led to GM's recall last summer of 2000-2003 cars with the 3.8 Series II? In that recall, GM described that they had "learned that the vehicle may develop an engine coolant leak at the upper intake manifold to throttle body gasket, or at the lower intake to upper intake gasket. This condition may result in a low engine coolant elvel and higer engine temperature."

    In the recall, GM replaced the "engine throttle body fasteners with redesigned fasteners, and added cooling system sealant to the radiator tank."

    According to the letter I received, the recall only applied to 2000 to 2003 MYs. But I wonder if there's a hidden warranty on other cars - particularly if you bought it new. If it's the same root cause, I'd appeal to GM. Incidentally, this recall is good until July 31, 2005 and GM has a deadline of July 31st, 2004 for claims for work that had been paid for prior to the recall.

    You might also be interested in these links:
    -On line petition: GM should recall faulty Intake Manifold Gasket installed in their vehicles
    -gmjunk.com
    -Reviews - this link has a suggestion that, if you replace this other than at a dealer, get an aftermarket one - because the replace plastic manifold is, in many people's opinion, equally bound to go.

    -Automotive forum - this one refers to an aftermarket kit.

    -service technician's perspective on plastic parts



    The problem isn't on the SSEi because it doesn't use the composite plastic manifolds on the supercharged engine.

    55k miles on the '00 SLE, 35k miles on the '01 GP GT - just had the service done in November on both cars and experienced no leaks before or since. Will be watching tho'...

    ice
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Chuck - I had mine done under the recall program last fall - didnt take more than an hour to do the work while I took out a new SSEi for a road test! I had about 90K at the time. We're up to 95K now with no leaking. Yes I had noticed some a long time ago - maybe 2 yrs ago but nothing really for the last year and a half. I wonder - as part of the fix - do they drain and replace the coolant? I didn't think to ask at the time.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    I read the earlier links and post about replacement manifolds. Mine was replaced at 75K. Does using Green antifreeze instead of dexcool actually help? Is it too late to change? I didn't realize the replacement might have the same problem.

    I have a '98 3800.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    I have an '02 SLE and it failed at 17000mls.

    The issue up to '98 was different than '99 and on.

    Dexcool has nothing to do with it though, as it doesn't with global warming, WMDs, sperm whales, etc. :-)
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    theiceman: It may or may not be the same problem with leaking gaskets but Gm I think separated it into 2 separate issues.- First : by only allowing for vehicles from 2000 on out and by fixing/changing fastners,adding sealant etc- not actually changing the upper/lower manifold gaskets, etc for vehicles prior to 2000- GM is still in denial that there is anything wrong.
    I did not buy the car new and only took out an extra 6 month warranty back in 2002- so it looks like i'm biting the bullet on this one but its still better than not having it done and then having the coolant ruin your engine and really have to pay big bucks as some less fortunate owners then I have had happen to them already.
    I know there are class action suits against GM on this but its really a shame that GM still denies they designed this wrong and should make amends.

    Ken: I had the same service recall done on my wife's 2003 Grand Prix GT.- I could be wrong here but I do not believe that they completely drained/replaced the entire coolant system- I think they just put in different fastners, added a radiator sealant and re-added any fluids that were low.
    Ken, remember my white 2000 Bonneville SE I had,
    now that I think about it, I was adding a little bit of coolant on occasion but never worried about it
    as it had only around 35,000/40,000 miles on it
    when we traded it in for the Grand Prix.
    There probably was a leak on it but I never gave it a second thought at the time.

    Evandro: You are right- GM is treating this as two separate issues. 2000 and newer for the voluntary recall etc and prior to 2000- no help for anything.

    Imidazo197: I've heard both pro and con for changing the coolant from Dex-cool back to the Green. A former Service Manager at a Pontiac Dealership told me once that Dex-cool was bad and caused clogs/corrosion etc.and not to wait the 5years or 150,000 miles to have the system flushed etc.
    I think I also read somewhere that its almost impossible to make sure that all of the Dex-cool is out before you switch and because if it isn't it can contaminate the regular green anti-freeze as they don't/can't mix. I need help guy's/girls on verifying if this is true or not- I really don't know for sure.
    I'm not going to change mine back to Green. I could be wrong here but I have not had any overheating problems/radiator problems
    etc because of the Dex-cool so when the job is done this Thursday I'm having them replace with the Dex-cool.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    FWIW, I used a permanent marker to... mark the coolant level on the expansion tank. As I park the Bonneville always at the same side of the garage (the water heater robs space from the other side), it's easy to check if there's been any change in the coolant level every Saturday morning.

    17000mls after a new intake manifold, the level has been the same for about 5000mls since the recall.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    begins Feb. 16th with shipments to start on Feb 27th.
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Michael - I just took another look at your site after the suggestion from Ice and really enjoyed the link to the 1958 Bonneville - arguably one of the most attractive GMs ever produced. Also took a gander at the stats and demographics for Bonneville owners - no wonder I feel so much at home in my car! lol

    Sure do hope to be heading your way next month. The temps have moderated from the deep freeze but it's a lonnnnnnnngg time till spring here and more dreaded 'wintry mix' is headed our way tomorrow!
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    Yup, headed here too. From the States IIRC. As I said before, Ken, bad weather always comes from somewhere else... >:)
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    In Texas we call them "another Northern aggression." :-D
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Going to take your idea on marking the recovery tank!
    Just got the car back this afternoon- Total Cost $492.17
    Upper and lower intake manifold gaskets/replace anti-freeze/ oil/filter/water temp switch and 5 hours of labor! NO COOLANT CONTAMINATION!
    Upper manifold gasket was the problem area.- no sludge/gunk/ coolant in engine compartment.
    Engine clean and running strong!
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Our Bonneville is going to get it's first exposure to Fla sun in March! We're planning to drive to Naples for a week's vacation mid month. My MIL has agreed to stay with the kids so this is an 'adults only' vacation! WooHoo!!!

    Turns out all the cheap air fares are long gone for that week so we'll do the 1700 mile roadtrip which is fine with me. I may even let my wife drive a while - perhaps even more than the 100 miles she drove on the same trip last April!
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    1700 Mile road trip. Good time to pickup one of the satellite radio options out there.
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Hmmm - there's an idea. I'll have to look into that. Does anyone else here have this in their car already?
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    I have factory XM Radio in my '03 SSEi. It and a few CD's are all I listen to anymore except when the weather gets bad--then I listen to local radio for latest weather info.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Last March, I picked up a Delphi SkyFi and signed up for XM Radio through GMFamilyFirst (my mother-in-law recently retired from GM - until '97, she worked at the Lake Orion plant, assembling Bonnevilles, Auroras, Lesabres, and Rivieras :-). I quickly got the boombox for work, and move my SkyFi (modular receiver) between my car and my desk. I love it, and listen to it all day. Regular radio? Can't stand it (sped up songs, the same songs over and over, 15 minutes of commercials per hour, I lose interest/it annoys me).

    My wife was a DJ for many years ("Renee Andrews" in mid-Michigan :-) until we got married, and even she loves XM. I installed a second SkyFi cradle in her car in September for a road trip, and it was awesome listening to tunes while traveling. When we got stuck in traffic in Chicago, we turned on the comedy channels to lighten the mood. She liked it so much that I didn't get my SkyFi back, until I bought her a Roady for Christmas. I've converted several family members and co-workers to XM. Especially now that the music channels have no commercials, it's awesome - the sound quality, the music selection (I'm a big 80's music fan/buff), and the variety of channels - it's worth the $10/mo. to me (that's less than the cost of one CD, or a little more than eating lunch out).

    For anyone who spends a lot of time alone in the car, it's highly, highly recommended.

    --Robert
    whose 12-CD changer in his Aurora hasn't been used in months
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Guess I'll take a look. My own daily commuting listening habits are less for music and more for political talk radio but it will be interesting to find out what is offered. Certainly for road trips the music is more desirable.
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    I recently put the Delphi XM Roady into my SSEi. I've had XM in the Tahoe for almost two years, and it rocks, especially on road trips. No more static, fade or small town radio (you know, the kind where you hit SCAN and it goes all the way around before coming back to the one and only station it can receive). Plays through the cassette player, sounds awesome, almost as good as CD to my ears. The only thing XM doesn't have that I miss: NPR Morning Edition (oh, and Car Talk, of course ;-). But I can get that locally anyway...
  • xavier64xavier64 Member Posts: 76
    Just wanted to comment on GM's recall on the intake manifold gasket. I took the Bonnie in for the warranty and the leaking occurred after the warranty work was done. After smelling the antifreeze coming through heating ducts and seeing the leaking occur after coming home one day, I had the dealer do it again. It seems a shame that this occurred with only 16700 miles on the 2001 Bonnie (helps walking to the train station and then going into town). Will watch to see if the repair on the warranty work holds.
    I did checkout the Philly Auto Show last Sunday and after seeing the V8 Bonnie, how hard would it be to place that in 2000-2003 cars? Hopefully they don't have a problem with the manifold gasket.

    Ice,
    Although it will be some time before the Affinity tires are replaced, a tire dealer in the Philly area is carrying the Nokian tires that you have on your Bonnie. It seems that those tires have done well for you in Toronto.

    Ken, hope your doing well and when you leave for Florida, I will deliver some cheese steaks to you for your ride down.

    Steve
  • etcarrolletcarroll Member Posts: 87
    Pat's or Geno's.
  • xavier64xavier64 Member Posts: 76
    How about both Pat's and Geno's? Or Steve's Prince of Steaks in the Northeast.... Cheese fries as well...

    Ken, will you be going through NJ or PA on your trip to Florida? You may see my parent's down in Florida as well since they are leaving at the end of February. If you see a black 1997 Buick Riviera speeding past, it will be them.

    Next Saturday I will be taking the Bonnie up to State College PA to meet up with a friend from Penn State. Should be a nice drive and it has been many years since I was there.
  • llcooljsonllcooljson Member Posts: 5
    TRY JIM'S ON SOUTH STREET. BETTER THAN PATS OR GENOS(HORSEMEAT). ALSO TONY LUKES ON OREGON AVE(AROUND 2ND AND OREGON)REAL GOOD SANDWICHES THERE. BORN AND RAISED IN SOUTH PHILLY.
                         ENJOY
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Shoot - I'm gonna miss out on a Philly Cheese Steak in March but maybe I'll get one in April. We decided to fly to Fla in March rather than drive despite the lack of cheap air fares - in order to prolong the stay there and maximize the relaxation factor. However during April we will be driving the family to Williamsburg Va (in the Suburban) for a week and could take up any offers!
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    I see GXP production start has been moved back a month to mid-March (http://www.arifleet.com/production.html#gmcars).Hope there's nothing ominous going on. Guess that means April earliest before any GXP’s arrive in dealerships. My dealer doesn’t know anything about it other than he has three GXP orders in and has heard nothing from GM on their build dates.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    production started Feb. 16th and shipments are to start Feb. 27th. I saw one on the road today. Looked very nice.
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    A poster over on the BonnevilleClub board says the mid-March production date applies to Canada. US GXP's are apparently rolling off the line. There is a Feb 16 article in the Chicago Sun-Times quoting Susan Wright, the Bonneville product manager, as saying that Pontiac is esimating 4,000 GXP's in the first year and that will be about 25% of all Bonneville sales.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Pontiac only sells 16K bonnevilles in a year? That seems a little hard to believe.
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    2003 calendar year Bonneville sales were 25,250, down from 37,599 for 2002 (I'm guessing because there was no SSEi production for MY2004). By contrast, LeSabre was at 114,572 for 2003. Good news (?) was that January 2004 sales of Bonneville were up 100% over last January.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Keep in mind that there was no Bonneville production for almost four months last year, while it moved from one plant to another.
  • fgeorge2fgeorge2 Member Posts: 15
    Interesting - this site shows a GXP Job 1 date of 4/20/04:
    http://www.napleton.com/nfg/nfgweb.nsf/VEH/StartupDates.html
    I'm waiting for my GXP too, but I'm beginning to think that Pontiac may be delaying the launch and making it a late spring intro (M/Y 2005). Does anyone know anything more on this? The dealers seem clueless.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Do you have a link to that article? I searched but could not find it.
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Here it is: http://suntimes.com/output/padgett/car-news-nina16.html
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    I have been over on the Cadillac Forums pages trying to learn a little more about the LD8 Northstar that is in the GXP. Pretty interesting things to be learned there. Like a few others on this board, I was a tad distressed when I first learned that the GXP was “only” going to have 275 HP in its V8.

    After visiting the Cadillac board I am much more comfortable with the LD8 in the GXP than if GM had decided to use its sister engine, the 300 HP L37 Northstar. Reason: the LD8 was designed a year later than the L37 (now 11 years old) to have better low end “grunt” than the L37. The LD8 makes 275 HP @ 5600 rpm and 300 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm, compared to the L37’s 300 HP @ 6000 rpm and 295 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm. The difference is in the camshaft grinds. The GM Powertrain website says the LD8 “is edgier, higher revving with more peak horsepower and a higher redline and it puts more emphasis on quick launch and part-throttle response with more peak torque.” And in the GXP application, the LD8 also comes with a 3.71:1 transaxle, whereas in the Cadillac it uses a 3.11:1 transaxle. Between the LD8 and the 3.71:1 transaxle, the GXP should have plenty of “squat and git.”

    There is a fellow on the Cadillac Forums pages (username bbobynski) who says he has put 4,300 miles on one of the first GXP production cars that went into his test fleet (I’m not sure what line of work he’s in) and he says “it is one of my favorite cars of all time.” He says the GXP handles so well he would put it up against a great many RWD cars. In his words, “It sticks like a slot car on freeway loops and can make most cars look silly…and…it still goes in the snow we’ve been having.” He feels it offers the same performance and comfort of an STS but at $15k less.

    I’m still waiting on word from my dealer regarding when one of those beauties is going to arrive here.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I would really like one of the auto mags to do a review of the GXP. They would likely find fault with the interior materials and the fact that it is front wheel drive. Maybe soon??
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    You can predict what they will say word for word. They will say its too expensive, the interior is cheap and it's FWD. They wont give it a fair shot but I would like to see a review to see the performance specs. Edmunds should test one soon, but I doubt that will happen. They are usually slow to test GM vehicles.
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