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Pontiac Bonneville
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UGLY!!!!- not by me, but by present owners of the 300M!
I personally think it looks more like a boxed cheese grater- not something that I'm going to pay $32,000.00 for and not like the looks of it.
If Chrysler re-designs that front -they got a WINNER!!!- until then- (IMHO) I'll take the Bonneville regardless of more cost and less horsepower.
Do you have the figures as to how many units Chrysler plans to make for their 2005- 300 C
to compare to the figures for the GXP?
Sure, it's a more modern interior than the Bonneville's but I sure wish they'd added more faux brushed aluminum...
A big plus, though, for the 300 is that AWD is planned for this Fall. And, yes, telescopic steering wheel is standard and Xenons, and Nav are available - but together will set you back another $3k on top of the 300C's asking $33k. But you won't get the walnut trim you see in the above picture - that's another $400. Oh, and power adjustable pedals and side curtain airbags are also available (they are not even available on the Bonneville) - nevertheless, together, they'll set you back another grand.
Priced the way I'd want it, the 300C would set me back $37k - and there'll be absolutely no dickering at least for another year. Compare that with approx. $30k for the GXP (after rebates, haggle price and using my GM Visa points), the spread gets more interesting. Still, that extra $7k would get you a more powerful, modern, and better equipped car than the Bonneville. But it'd still have that beak:
As for exclusivity and sales numbers, it has to be remembered that, while the 300C is a neat car, the volume seller is likely to be the lowly 300 (base price: $23k). A while after its introduction, it may become difficult to convince somebody to part with $37k for a car whose stablemate competes pricewise with Grand Ams and Malibus.
Of course, there is that hemi...
It seems to be for Buick and Olds vehicles also for that time span- * Note -ONLY FOR THE N/A(L36) ENGINES- NOT THE SUPERCHARGED (L67) Engines!!!!!
HERE IS THE INFO DIRECT FROM THE NHTSA SITE:
NHTSA Campaign ID Number- : 04V090000
Recall Date Feb 16th, 2004
Component: Fuel System, Gasoline Delivery
Build Dates: March 1,1997 to August 31, 1998
Potential # of Units Affected: 433632
SUMMARY:
On certain passenger vehicles equipped with 3800 V6 (L36) Engines and certain delphi fuel pressure regulators, the regulators have a much higher than usual rate of fuel leaks. A leak can allow fuel to enter the intake manifold through a vacuum line. If the engine does not start when cranked, the fuel from the leaking regulator and a mistimed spark can cause a backfire.
CONSEQUENCE:
The backfire can rupture the intake manifold. The rupture of the intake manifold can displace a fuel line, pulling an injector out of place, and causing a fuel leak and possible fire.
REMEDY:
DEALERS WILL INSTALL NEW FUEL PRESSURE REGULATORS WITH IMPROVED DIAPHRAGMS.
Owner notification is expected to begin during the second quarter of 2004. Owners should contact Buick at 1-866-608-8080, Oldsmobile at 1-800-630-6537 or PONTIAC AT 1-800-620-7668
NOTES:
GM RECALL NO 03054B. Customers can also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin Auto Safety hotline at 1-888-dash-dot (1-888-327-4236)
Hope that helps.
Huh?
Has anyone else heard this?
- Ray
Cross posting to GP board . . .
Anyway- just thought I'd pass this on to any other members who have a Bonneville built between those dates with the N/A L36 Engine.- Give Pontiac a call and give them your VIN#
they'll let you know if your car is on the recall list and needs a Service Request # or if your car
is OK.
This fits with the strategy to make '05 as the final MY for the Bonneville by presenting the Grand Prix as a good alternative for Bonnie buyers (which aren't exactly legion). The thinking is that SE buyers might opt for the redesigned Buicks (the all-new LaCrosse or the refreshed-for-2005 LeSabre) and Bonneville SSEi/GXP buyers will opt for the Grand Prix GXP with SLE buyers shaking out somewhere between the two - and being the most likely to jump to the competition (e.g. Acura TL).
I suspect that GM would want to be coy on this announcement: it would seriously harm sales of current GP Comp Gs and Bonneville GXPs if buyers thought that a 350 hp GP was just a year away.
Here's all I could find on the GP Autocross: GM Media: Pontiac Grand Prix Autocross - SEMA 2003.
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/pontiac_grandprix.asp
http://www.fast-autos.net/pontiac/pontiacgrandprixac.html
Question:
If GM issued a recall # -03054B does that mean they already know what vehicles to recall?
I'll just keep aware of it over the next few months.
When GM issues the recall it will be numbered 03054B. As of now they know the cars that will be recalled, they just haven't made it known. If I recall reading that associated documentation at the NHTSA site, it showed a draft copy of the GM to dealer bulletin but didn't include the vin ranges.
Thanks again for all of your info.
On the way to work this morning I passed a car carryer loaded up with new 300s. Very impressive looking at first sight and definitely better in person than in the photos I've seen to date. However the toothy grille is certainly an attention grabber - and it's so odd now to see such a throw-back to the big chrome grills of a few decades ago.
I do prefer the classy front styling of the GXP to the 300. GXP is just so elegant from every angle.
I have not seen either the new 300's or GXP'S in person-
But just on pictures- I also like the front of the GXP and the overall style of the GXP over the Chrysler.
I'll admit, as a present Bonneville owner, I'd favor the GXP, but if that front grille were different, I would give the Chrysler serious consideration.
Thanks for the info- I think i'll be giving my local dealer another call this week and try and find out what's causing the delay.
just to go out and buy one myself!!!
Time-Warner... for those who wonder.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, despite dreaming about upgrading my SSEi to a GXP, I went and got a new Avalanche to replace my Tahoe instead. I think if the GXP had come out last fall when it was orginally promised I might have gone for it by now, but the fact is that the Tahoe is six years old and needs more maintenance than the Bonnie, which only has 14K miles on it, so I'm keeping the Bonnie and selling the Tahoe. If I ever see a GXP I'll probably look longingly at it like a puppy, but no regrets, I still love the SSEi.
BTW, the vibration problem is still there but it seems that since the Intermediate Steering Shaft was replaced the shaking is less evident through the steering wheel. I can tolerate it again. Otherwise, very smooth riding. The Avalanche is wonderful, the seats are amazingly comfortable and easily my favorite feature of the whole truck. It's also super smooth and quiet, rides like a Cadillac (a very, very big Cadillac). XM, OnStar, sunroof, Bose, power-fold mirrors, adjustable pedals, auto dual-zone climate, very luxurious. Not looking forward to filling the 31 gallon tank, but with a 20-mile round trip commute I only have to fill the Tahoe twice a month if I don't stray too far from home, so this one shouldn't be any worse.
(No I don't work for Hunter, I'm just an Aurora owner who's had this done a few times. I peruse this forum because of my interest in the GXP)...
Hope this helps,
--Robert
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What color did you get and does it have the plastic body cladding? I'm seeing some without it now and I like that cleaner look. Do you have leather too?
As I said in an earlier post, after having done a little research on the L37 (300HP) and LD8 (275HP) versions of the Northstar, I think Pontiac chose the right one for the GXP since the LD8 is stronger at the low end than the L37. Works for me, anyway, since I’m more interested in off the line performance than I am in performance in the upper ranges.
With the 18" wheels and lower profile tires, and with the performance-tuned suspension, I expected the GXP to ride noticeably harder than the SSEi, but I was pleasantly surprised that the difference is practically imperceptible. And I noticed zero vibrations at all speeds up to 85 MPH on the Goodyear rubber.
The exhaust tuning could be a tad more sporty-sounding for my tastes, but it still has a nice V8 sound in the cabin when you punch it, the combination of the engine sound and the exhaust sound at WOT is real ear candy, and it runs at highway speeds as quiet as the SSEi. I'd like to hear the pipes "talk" a bit more on acceleration, but the downside is always the "drone" you have to put up with on the highway. Maybe I'm finally growing up after owning 6 Trans Ams?
The interior has been jazzed up nicely with the carbon-fiber touches, the black “chiclets,” the brushed aluminum touches, and the UltraSuede seat and door panel inserts. Very nice.
And of course, the lines of the exterior from any angle are just gorgeous, and the new front and rear fascias are very pleasing to the eye. The side body cladding from the beltline down is still there, which I like for door ding protection, but it is much more subtle than the 2000-2003 SSEi cladding.
One thing that got my attention was that the car only had 82 miles on it when I got in it and the DIC indicated 9.2 average miles per gallon! When I brought it back 30 miles later, the average was 10.5. Hopefully, whoever put those 82 miles on it was driving it about as hard as I was such that as it loosens up over time it will get closer to its advertised EPA 17/24 MPG.
I’ll be interested in what the car mags have to say about the GXP when they get around to flogging one other than their usual lament that the GXP is FWD.
My problem is I am driving a one year old SSEi that I would have to sell, and at a decent price, but considering that whopping first year depreciation . . . . Fortunately, I have a solid buyer for the car, and he will give me a fair price, but I will still take a little hit. So the questions are, how badly do I want a GXP, and how great of a deal will the dealership offer me? I am a long-time customer, so I expect they will treat me nicely. Also fortunately, my wife is a car person, too, and she thinks I should go for it. I love the SSEi, but I’m really a V8 kind of guy, having had all those V8 TA’s, and a bunch of V8’s before them.
Then there’s that gas mileage thing with the price of gas what it is these days. I have gotten used to 21 MPG in town on the SSEi and 27-29 on the highway, so I’d be taking a little hit there, too.
But I can hear that V8 ear candy now and can feel the power. What a dilemma. I have to make up my mind in the next few days to make sure my potential buyer doesn’t get away from me.
I wonder why the Dr. backed out?
With that 3.71 final drive ratio (did you notice rpm at hiway speeds vs. your SSEi?) I doubt the GXP will significantly exceed 25 MPG at 65 - 75 mpg hiway cruise . . .
- Ray
Hoping to be proven wrong . . .
RPM: actually I didn't pay attention to the tach at highway speeds, but with that gearing, I imagine the RPMs were a tad higher than the SSEi's which likely accounts for some of the drop in mileage.
I think a GXP driver would be very pleased to get 25 MPG on the highway.
The GXP sounds fantastic. None near us yet but I look forward to checking one out eventually even though I'm not in the market to buy one new.
Michael - your Av sounds like a sweet ride! I see more and more now sans cladding and there's a dark green one parked near my office that really turns heads. Enjoy!!!!
Dang, I just looked at the GMS price on a loaded black GXP w/XM, heated seats, sunroof, and it was a pretty decent number (around 33k) - and there's one just like it at my dealer. Factor in the 3k rebate, plus the GM card dollars I have (assuming a dealer would take GMS + GM card on a new model), and I could actually afford it. I'm only two semi-monthly payments (one month) away from having my '98 Aurora paid off, so I think I'll wait a year of saving up cash (and I'm still thinking about the GXP versus a used 2002-2003 Aurora versus a GTO)...
--Robert
It's basically the dealer's discretion as to whether or not they will take GMS pricing. Generally, the more limited/rare the product, the less likely that they will take it (i.e. it wasn't until recently that dealers would do GMS on GTO's). I do not think you would offend the dealership if you asked them up front if they would take it (since it is a sizeable savings for you, and another car sold for them). If they say no, that's fine.
The new certificates are electronic - no paper needed - just DOB and last 4 digits of SSN (don't even need your address, just an email)...
Hope this helps,
--Robert
Speaking as a NorthStar owner (Aurora V-8), the number of mods is extremely small (mostly airbox/throttle-body mods/Corsa exhaust). My wife has a 2001 GTP, so I'm very familiar with both engines. The L47 V-8 is definitely more refined for a luxocruiser (like my Aurora is). But the L67 V-6 sure is fast (esp. off the line), and fun. Two different markets...
--Robert
I went to the dealer (I work directly with the Fleet Manager) today to ask about GMS discounts. He gave me a copy of the invoice he got from GM on the GXP that is on its way in. As you said, it shows all the various pricing—MSRP, invoice, GMS, supplier, holdback, dealer advertising, etc. The total price he shot me the other day was $103 lower than the GMS price less the $3k rebate—a special price for me he said because I am a long-time Pontiac owner and buyer from that dealership, have sent many customers there who have bought, etc.
Even with the deal he has offered me, they still make a few bucks on the car with the holdback and advertising rebate from GM. I guess I could try to dig into the holdback a bit to save a few more bucks, but I don't want to press my luck. They have been pretty good to me over the years.
So I guess for this car from this dealer, I won’t need a certificate. Thanks again for the offer, Robert.
Bill