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Pontiac Bonneville

1737476787985

Comments

  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    The 300C will be a major competitor to the GXP. I guess FWD vs. RWD will be a factor for some. I do like the RWD set up in the 300, but I was not overly impressed with the interior when I sat in it at the auto show. I have a feeling (and hope) the 300 sells well - maybe GM will follow (Zeta platform?) with new RWD vehicles. A Kappa based sedan to replace the Sunfire would be cool. Oh well, I hope the GXP does well anyway.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    I think Chrysler missed the boat though on the design of the front grille on the 300C- NO COMPARISON style wise compared to the GXP- that front grille has been referred to as a SCHOOL BUS FRONT GRILLE-
    UGLY!!!!- not by me, but by present owners of the 300M!
    I personally think it looks more like a boxed cheese grater- not something that I'm going to pay $32,000.00 for and not like the looks of it.

    If Chrysler re-designs that front -they got a WINNER!!!- until then- (IMHO) I'll take the Bonneville regardless of more cost and less horsepower.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    To each his own as far as styling goes. I think the Bonneville looks better than the 300. Even so, I would still consider the 300. I would bet that the 300 will sell way better than the Bonneville.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Your probably right- I don't think the Bonneville even now is doing too good on sales.

    Do you have the figures as to how many units Chrysler plans to make for their 2005- 300 C
    to compare to the figures for the GXP?
  • jcz1jcz1 Member Posts: 36
    Someone on that message board is saying that they've already made close to 10,000 300's, getting ready for the launch/roll-out. And that's in just the first two months of production. Looks like they're expecting to sell a significant number of them.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I think that sales for 2004 for the Bonneville are expected to be around 24000 with 4000 or so being the GXP. Don't know what projections for the 300 are but I would guess ???? 50k or more???
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    The 300C will undoubtedly sell better than the GXP and, on paper, even I am attracted: RWD, stability, traction, etc. I like the exterior styling - except the front grill - but I'm not even close to liking the interior:



    image



    Sure, it's a more modern interior than the Bonneville's but I sure wish they'd added more faux brushed aluminum...

    A big plus, though, for the 300 is that AWD is planned for this Fall. And, yes, telescopic steering wheel is standard and Xenons, and Nav are available - but together will set you back another $3k on top of the 300C's asking $33k. But you won't get the walnut trim you see in the above picture - that's another $400. Oh, and power adjustable pedals and side curtain airbags are also available (they are not even available on the Bonneville) - nevertheless, together, they'll set you back another grand.

    Priced the way I'd want it, the 300C would set me back $37k - and there'll be absolutely no dickering at least for another year. Compare that with approx. $30k for the GXP (after rebates, haggle price and using my GM Visa points), the spread gets more interesting. Still, that extra $7k would get you a more powerful, modern, and better equipped car than the Bonneville. But it'd still have that beak:


    image


    As for exclusivity and sales numbers, it has to be remembered that, while the 300C is a neat car, the volume seller is likely to be the lowly 300 (base price: $23k). A while after its introduction, it may become difficult to convince somebody to part with $37k for a car whose stablemate competes pricewise with Grand Ams and Malibus.

    Of course, there is that hemi...
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The 300 is definitely a competitor for the GXP but I like the GXP better on the outside. The 300 has RWD and much more power but I would be willing to bet that the cars will be close in acceleration. Price and styling are the GXP's main selling points vs the 300. I really do not like the exterior of this car too much, but the inside is better than the GXP. You spend your time inside the car, but people see the outside and the GXP is one nice looking full size car.
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Saw one today on the showroom floor at one of the local dealerships. It was pre-sold, so it stays on the floor--no test drives. It is white tintcoat with taupe interior. Exterior looks great with the new front and rear fascias, smooth bodysides, the 3-piece spoiler, dual/dual exhaust tips, and those flangeless 18" wheels, etc. On the interior, I'm not sure I like the Ultralux suede seat inserts. They look great, but I imagine they will soil and stain over time--maybe not--I have no experience with Ultralux. But the dash treatment looks pretty good with the black carbon-fiber touches, all the "chiclets" are black, and the white-faced gauges look nice. Popping the hood and looking at that Northstar V8 was a treat. One interesting bit of news from the sales manager was that the '05 Grand Prix GTP will have a 5.3L V8--still FWD.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    * This one is for my 98 SSE!!!!- Just when I thought the car would never have any recalls- (LOL)
    It seems to be for Buick and Olds vehicles also for that time span- * Note -ONLY FOR THE N/A(L36) ENGINES- NOT THE SUPERCHARGED (L67) Engines!!!!!

    HERE IS THE INFO DIRECT FROM THE NHTSA SITE:

    NHTSA Campaign ID Number- : 04V090000
    Recall Date Feb 16th, 2004
    Component: Fuel System, Gasoline Delivery
    Build Dates: March 1,1997 to August 31, 1998
    Potential # of Units Affected: 433632

    SUMMARY:
    On certain passenger vehicles equipped with 3800 V6 (L36) Engines and certain delphi fuel pressure regulators, the regulators have a much higher than usual rate of fuel leaks. A leak can allow fuel to enter the intake manifold through a vacuum line. If the engine does not start when cranked, the fuel from the leaking regulator and a mistimed spark can cause a backfire.

    CONSEQUENCE:
    The backfire can rupture the intake manifold. The rupture of the intake manifold can displace a fuel line, pulling an injector out of place, and causing a fuel leak and possible fire.

    REMEDY:
    DEALERS WILL INSTALL NEW FUEL PRESSURE REGULATORS WITH IMPROVED DIAPHRAGMS.
    Owner notification is expected to begin during the second quarter of 2004. Owners should contact Buick at 1-866-608-8080, Oldsmobile at 1-800-630-6537 or PONTIAC AT 1-800-620-7668

    NOTES:
    GM RECALL NO 03054B. Customers can also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Admin Auto Safety hotline at 1-888-dash-dot (1-888-327-4236)
  • trucker50trucker50 Member Posts: 108
    Looking at a 2001 SSEi with 27,000 miles on it with sunroof....what did these cost new and what would be a fair price for one?
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    Value depends a bit on whether or not it has any other options (slider, chrome wheels, etc.) and mostly on regional demand. Still, it should fetch around $19k for that kind of mileage. I think they went for around $32-33k back in '01.

    Hope that helps.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "One interesting bit of news from the sales manager was that the '05 Grand Prix GTP will have a 5.3L V8--still FWD. "

    Huh?

    Has anyone else heard this?
    - Ray
    Cross posting to GP board . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    I called the Pontiac Cust Service # today- 1-800-620-7668. the Service Rep claims my VIN# is not being re-called- I guess not ALL cars made from 3/1/97 to 8/31/98 with the L36 engine have a bad Delphi Fuel Pressure Regulator- at least not according to the Pontiac Rep that I spoke to.I hope this guy wasn't giving me a BS Line! I'll still be watching out for anything in the mail from GM in the next few months!
    Anyway- just thought I'd pass this on to any other members who have a Bonneville built between those dates with the N/A L36 Engine.- Give Pontiac a call and give them your VIN#
    they'll let you know if your car is on the recall list and needs a Service Request # or if your car
    is OK.
  • theicemantheiceman Member Posts: 736
    It's only talk right now - I've not seen any official announcement on it. Originally called the "Grand Prix Autocross", some are dubbing it the "Grand Prix GXP" and are talking about it coming to market for March '05.

    This fits with the strategy to make '05 as the final MY for the Bonneville by presenting the Grand Prix as a good alternative for Bonnie buyers (which aren't exactly legion). The thinking is that SE buyers might opt for the redesigned Buicks (the all-new LaCrosse or the refreshed-for-2005 LeSabre) and Bonneville SSEi/GXP buyers will opt for the Grand Prix GXP with SLE buyers shaking out somewhere between the two - and being the most likely to jump to the competition (e.g. Acura TL).

    I suspect that GM would want to be coy on this announcement: it would seriously harm sales of current GP Comp Gs and Bonneville GXPs if buyers thought that a 350 hp GP was just a year away.

    Here's all I could find on the GP Autocross: GM Media: Pontiac Grand Prix Autocross - SEMA 2003.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    The main reason that you could have got the answer that your can is not recalled, is that GM hasn't recalled them yet. Therefore no vin listing is available to customer service or dealers. Once GM issues the recall, the vins will be available. Once a manufacturer makes a decission to recall a car, they have to notify the NHTSA, which lists the info. It still can be months before the actual dealer/customer notification takes place.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    thanks-

    Question:
     If GM issued a recall # -03054B does that mean they already know what vehicles to recall?

    I'll just keep aware of it over the next few months.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Answer:
    When GM issues the recall it will be numbered 03054B. As of now they know the cars that will be recalled, they just haven't made it known. If I recall reading that associated documentation at the NHTSA site, it showed a draft copy of the GM to dealer bulletin but didn't include the vin ranges.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    Thanks again!!!
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Another thought has come to me. I have read that people who register with GM at http://www.mygmlink.com , get notified as soon as GM puts the recall info in their systems, and well before the letters go out.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    I,m already registered at MYGMLINK.com with my cars VIN etc. -no recalls according to GM, so i'll just wait and see what happens.
    Thanks again for all of your info.
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Hello all! The trip to Fla was fantastic and the weather ideal in the low 80s. Back to the daily grind now!

    On the way to work this morning I passed a car carryer loaded up with new 300s. Very impressive looking at first sight and definitely better in person than in the photos I've seen to date. However the toothy grille is certainly an attention grabber - and it's so odd now to see such a throw-back to the big chrome grills of a few decades ago.

    I do prefer the classy front styling of the GXP to the 300. GXP is just so elegant from every angle.
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    The doctor's black GXP that I mentioned earlier (without the sunroof) arrived at the dealership yesterday. They called me so I could go take a look. It had just rolled off the truck and it was an overcast day with rain forecast so it was very grey out. The car was filthy from the trip, and had the white protective plastic all over it, so all in all it was hard to gauge its beauty as a black car. The seats and carpeting were all pretty much covered in plastic, but the dash was uncovered. The black chiclets and the carbon fibre touches looked pretty good against the silver-faced instrument cluster and the dark pewter interior, as did the brushed aluminum touches on the shifter, pedals and elsewhere. I think it will really look sharp all cleaned up with the black exterior. I couldn't drive it, of course, but the keys were in it and they started it for me. The Northstar V8 sound through the performance exhaust system was clearly V8-sounding, but rather unique I thought. Not as throaty as the GTO (they have a couple GTO's in stock which I have heard running), but nice at idle, and aggressive-sounding when goosed a little. Ought to sound great at WOT. Just right for a performance sport sedan. They have 5 more GXP's coming--all on speculation--no firm sales/orders--another black one, a white one, a greystone one, and two others.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    welcome back !- Hope you brought some of that warm Florida Temps with you!!!!!- looking forward to a nice WARM FRONT (over 75) ASAP!!!

    I have not seen either the new 300's or GXP'S in person-
     But just on pictures- I also like the front of the GXP and the overall style of the GXP over the Chrysler.

    I'll admit, as a present Bonneville owner, I'd favor the GXP, but if that front grille were different, I would give the Chrysler serious consideration.
  • fantascpfantascp Member Posts: 175
    I can't believe that I have to still wait till the end of this next month before a GXP arrives and your local dealer will have had 6 already in!!!

    Thanks for the info- I think i'll be giving my local dealer another call this week and try and find out what's causing the delay.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    The local cable company will draw 3 GXPs to new subscribers...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    cable company price gouges, it'd be cheaper
    just to go out and buy one myself!!!
    Time-Warner... for those who wonder.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    Three GXPs? Wow, usually a company will only give away one car if any. I guess Time-Warner has some extra spending money? Here they changed their name to Bright House Networks, but nothing else changed (at least they didn't raise the rates any more than usual).

    Well, despite dreaming about upgrading my SSEi to a GXP, I went and got a new Avalanche to replace my Tahoe instead. I think if the GXP had come out last fall when it was orginally promised I might have gone for it by now, but the fact is that the Tahoe is six years old and needs more maintenance than the Bonnie, which only has 14K miles on it, so I'm keeping the Bonnie and selling the Tahoe. If I ever see a GXP I'll probably look longingly at it like a puppy, but no regrets, I still love the SSEi.

    BTW, the vibration problem is still there but it seems that since the Intermediate Steering Shaft was replaced the shaking is less evident through the steering wheel. I can tolerate it again. Otherwise, very smooth riding. The Avalanche is wonderful, the seats are amazingly comfortable and easily my favorite feature of the whole truck. It's also super smooth and quiet, rides like a Cadillac (a very, very big Cadillac). XM, OnStar, sunroof, Bose, power-fold mirrors, adjustable pedals, auto dual-zone climate, very luxurious. Not looking forward to filling the 31 gallon tank, but with a 20-mile round trip commute I only have to fill the Tahoe twice a month if I don't stray too far from home, so this one shouldn't be any worse.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    mlm, when are you having vibration? All of the time, or just at certain speeds? If the latter, and you haven't had your tires road-force balanced, go to http://www.gsp9700.com and find a shop that has a Hunter GSP 9700 machine. This is a new way of balancing tires which applies a counter-force to the tire when it's spinning, to help find the high and low spots of the tire and rim. They are then matched, and this tends to reduce at-speed vibrations, particularly noticeable on cars like the GM G (Aurora, Seville, Park Avenue, Riviera) and H (Bonneville, LeSabre) which have a fairly stiff body structure.

    (No I don't work for Hunter, I'm just an Aurora owner who's had this done a few times. I peruse this forum because of my interest in the GXP)...

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    hammen2, thanks for the info. This has been done, the road force and match mounting, etc. Also a new tie-rod end. I think part of the problem is the tires are flat-spotted. The vibration has gotten worse over the years and the car is often garaged for a week or two at a time which is probably contributing to it. My plan is to live with it until I can justify a new set of tires, and then see what happens. When I do get new tires I'm going to make sure the shop uses the Hunter machine and do the best they can to balance those things out.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    A newspaper reporter aims to interview people who are dealing with vehicle recalls, especially of GM products, such as the recent problems with the back gate on the pickups. Please send your daytime contact info to farataye@yahoo.com or jfallon@edmunds.com by Wednesday, April 7, 2004. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon PR Director Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Michael - your trade up to the Avalanche sounds fantastic. There are soooo many around - GM sure has a winner on their hands there!

    What color did you get and does it have the plastic body cladding? I'm seeing some without it now and I like that cleaner look. Do you have leather too?
  • mlm4mlm4 Member Posts: 401
    It's Silver Birch (the first vehicle I have ever had that wasn't blue!) and without the cladding (WBH). Although the cladding is more durable for stuff kicked up by the wheels, I like the Silverado look without the cladding much better. Apparently it is popular as the dealer said they order most of them this way now. It is sharp looking (hopefully I'll post a photo or two this weekend) and yes it has the most incredibly comfortable leather seats I have sat in since the last time I was shopping for furniture. 10-way adjustable. Not to say the Bonnie's seats aren't comfortable, because they are but those don't have the side bolster adjustment which allows the seat to fit like a glove. I had to practically sign my life away to lease the Avalanche so I'm hoping to enjoy it for the next 60 months! This is my first lease so it's a little unnerving reading all that legalese in the contract, but I think it will work out OK. The lease includes regular maintenance and extended warranty so hopefully there won't be too many extra costs associated with the truck. The Bonnie is almost paid off and then it's mine! The Av is HUGE even compared with the Tahoe and I haven't quite figured out how to fit it in the garage yet but trust me I will. I really didn't need a truck this big and I looked at the new Colorado Crew (too plain-Jane) and the Envoy XUV (just as expensive as the Av) but went for the comfort of the Av. So far (day 5 and counting) I'm very happy, and no one at work has criticised me for destroying the environment or supporting terrorism by getting this beast.
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    The doctor who my dealer had ordered the black GXP for backed out of the deal over the weekend, so now the GXP is on the lot for sale. I drove it today for about 30 miles at highway speeds, on some twisty roads, and on some deserted stretches for a couple acceleration runs. I’m impressed. It is noticeably quicker off the line than my SSEI -- probably owing to the increased horsepower in the V8, a little more low-end torque, and the fact that the GXP has a much lower 3.71:1 differential resulting in more low end "grunt" as they say. And the hard acceleration torque steer was surprisingly almost imperceptible – just like on the SSEi.

    As I said in an earlier post, after having done a little research on the L37 (300HP) and LD8 (275HP) versions of the Northstar, I think Pontiac chose the right one for the GXP since the LD8 is stronger at the low end than the L37. Works for me, anyway, since I’m more interested in off the line performance than I am in performance in the upper ranges.

    With the 18" wheels and lower profile tires, and with the performance-tuned suspension, I expected the GXP to ride noticeably harder than the SSEi, but I was pleasantly surprised that the difference is practically imperceptible. And I noticed zero vibrations at all speeds up to 85 MPH on the Goodyear rubber.

    The exhaust tuning could be a tad more sporty-sounding for my tastes, but it still has a nice V8 sound in the cabin when you punch it, the combination of the engine sound and the exhaust sound at WOT is real ear candy, and it runs at highway speeds as quiet as the SSEi. I'd like to hear the pipes "talk" a bit more on acceleration, but the downside is always the "drone" you have to put up with on the highway. Maybe I'm finally growing up after owning 6 Trans Ams?

    The interior has been jazzed up nicely with the carbon-fiber touches, the black “chiclets,” the brushed aluminum touches, and the UltraSuede seat and door panel inserts. Very nice.
     
    And of course, the lines of the exterior from any angle are just gorgeous, and the new front and rear fascias are very pleasing to the eye. The side body cladding from the beltline down is still there, which I like for door ding protection, but it is much more subtle than the 2000-2003 SSEi cladding.

    One thing that got my attention was that the car only had 82 miles on it when I got in it and the DIC indicated 9.2 average miles per gallon! When I brought it back 30 miles later, the average was 10.5. Hopefully, whoever put those 82 miles on it was driving it about as hard as I was such that as it loosens up over time it will get closer to its advertised EPA 17/24 MPG.
     
    I’ll be interested in what the car mags have to say about the GXP when they get around to flogging one other than their usual lament that the GXP is FWD.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Good review. I'm jealous, have been waiting to drive one but dealers have only had one or so each and already sold. Hopefully they will get more soon. So, are you going to get one????
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Bigdaddy: I am really drooling over that car—actually not that specific one—the doctor ordered it without a sunroof. It’s the right color and all—I love black—but I would have to have a sunroof. As it turns out, they have a black one on order just the way I would want it—with all options except the CD changer in the trunk and the engine block heater. It’s already been built, and has left the factory so it should arrive in a few days.

    My problem is I am driving a one year old SSEi that I would have to sell, and at a decent price, but considering that whopping first year depreciation . . . . Fortunately, I have a solid buyer for the car, and he will give me a fair price, but I will still take a little hit. So the questions are, how badly do I want a GXP, and how great of a deal will the dealership offer me? I am a long-time customer, so I expect they will treat me nicely. Also fortunately, my wife is a car person, too, and she thinks I should go for it. I love the SSEi, but I’m really a V8 kind of guy, having had all those V8 TA’s, and a bunch of V8’s before them.

    Then there’s that gas mileage thing with the price of gas what it is these days. I have gotten used to 21 MPG in town on the SSEi and 27-29 on the highway, so I’d be taking a little hit there, too.

    But I can hear that V8 ear candy now and can feel the power. What a dilemma. I have to make up my mind in the next few days to make sure my potential buyer doesn’t get away from me.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    Thanks for the review.
    I wonder why the Dr. backed out?
    With that 3.71 final drive ratio (did you notice rpm at hiway speeds vs. your SSEi?) I doubt the GXP will significantly exceed 25 MPG at 65 - 75 mpg hiway cruise . . .
    - Ray
    Hoping to be proven wrong . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Rayainsw: The doctor drove the car and said he liked it, but backed out because the timing was not right for him financially. He is a long time customer of the dealership having bought 5-6 black Bonnevilles from them over the years, so they just order cars for him on speculation. He has backed out before, but they always have no trouble selling the cars they say.

    RPM: actually I didn't pay attention to the tach at highway speeds, but with that gearing, I imagine the RPMs were a tad higher than the SSEi's which likely accounts for some of the drop in mileage.

    I think a GXP driver would be very pleased to get 25 MPG on the highway.
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    My 2000 SE passed the 100,000 mile mark last night! It still runs and rides great but is showing some wear from my 3+ years of highway driving - numerous chips on the facia and hood and even the windshield that was replaced last year. Hopefully this weekend I can clean it inside and out and perhaps we'll have the hood repainted this summer. If we buy a new car I'll pass this one to my wife for a year or two until the kids start driving. With the side airbags and full size protection it's destined to become the learning vehicle and first car for my older son (now 15) and my daughter (almost 14).

    The GXP sounds fantastic. None near us yet but I look forward to checking one out eventually even though I'm not in the market to buy one new.

    Michael - your Av sounds like a sweet ride! I see more and more now sans cladding and there's a dark green one parked near my office that really turns heads. Enjoy!!!!
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    If you can financially afford it I say go for it. You only live once - just think of the smile on your face every time you fire up the V8! I don't know if you get GM pricing but there is $3k rebate or 0% financing for 60 months. Let us know what you decide. Good luck!
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...let me know if you have access to GMS pricing. If not, I can probably talk my mother-in-law into giving you one of her GM In the DriveWay certificates (gets you GMS (employee) price + 4%, which is the same as supplier pricing). Of course, this assumes the dealer would offer GMS to you.

    Dang, I just looked at the GMS price on a loaded black GXP w/XM, heated seats, sunroof, and it was a pretty decent number (around 33k) - and there's one just like it at my dealer. Factor in the 3k rebate, plus the GM card dollars I have (assuming a dealer would take GMS + GM card on a new model), and I could actually afford it. I'm only two semi-monthly payments (one month) away from having my '98 Aurora paid off, so I think I'll wait a year of saving up cash (and I'm still thinking about the GXP versus a used 2002-2003 Aurora versus a GTO)...

    --Robert
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Hammen2: Thanks for the GM Certificate in the Driveway offer, but I’m a little hesitant because I don’t know how they work. My understanding is that the holders of the certificates can give them to family and friends to use, but that dealerships are under no obligation to accept them. I have seen posts on other boards where folks have tried to use them and the dealer refused. Is there no financial incentive for the dealer—that is, do they not get any money back from GM if they sell a car to somebody with a certificate? I guess I’m not sure why a dealer would not accept one unless there is nothing in it for them. I think I can get a pretty good under invoice deal plus the $3k rebate and GM card $$ as it is, so I’m a little hesitant to maybe risk impacting my long-standing relationship with my dealer by flashing one of those certificates since I’ve never done that before. Maybe my hesitancy is not well-founded—I just don’t know. Any light you can shed would be helpful.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Bunky, basically GMS and GM Supplier pricing (which is the same as gminthedriveway) is a fixed price for the dealer. The GMS price is actually printed on the invoice (and supplier/driveway pricing is GMS + 4%). There's no negotiation on selling price, but there is opportunity for negotiation/dealer profit on trade-ins, financing, mop 'n glo, et. al.

    It's basically the dealer's discretion as to whether or not they will take GMS pricing. Generally, the more limited/rare the product, the less likely that they will take it (i.e. it wasn't until recently that dealers would do GMS on GTO's). I do not think you would offend the dealership if you asked them up front if they would take it (since it is a sizeable savings for you, and another car sold for them). If they say no, that's fine.

    The new certificates are electronic - no paper needed - just DOB and last 4 digits of SSN (don't even need your address, just an email)...

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • ezraponezrapon Member Posts: 348
    I know the v8 probably was what you were listening to, but, how was the stereo? My 2000 Bose had no bass and was marginal at best. Did they address the sound. I'll be interested to hear from somebody compare the GXP to a slightly modified SSEi...(pulley and air cleaner). The beauty of the old 3.8 S/C was the cheap effective mods. The northstar might be a bit more difficult to modify.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    You know the old saying... "No highs, no lows, must be Bose". You want bass, go Monsoon or third-party. Bose is about clarity of sound (their PR, not mine).

    Speaking as a NorthStar owner (Aurora V-8), the number of mods is extremely small (mostly airbox/throttle-body mods/Corsa exhaust). My wife has a 2001 GTP, so I'm very familiar with both engines. The L47 V-8 is definitely more refined for a luxocruiser (like my Aurora is). But the L67 V-6 sure is fast (esp. off the line), and fun. Two different markets...

    --Robert
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    Robert:

    I went to the dealer (I work directly with the Fleet Manager) today to ask about GMS discounts. He gave me a copy of the invoice he got from GM on the GXP that is on its way in. As you said, it shows all the various pricing—MSRP, invoice, GMS, supplier, holdback, dealer advertising, etc. The total price he shot me the other day was $103 lower than the GMS price less the $3k rebate—a special price for me he said because I am a long-time Pontiac owner and buyer from that dealership, have sent many customers there who have bought, etc.

    Even with the deal he has offered me, they still make a few bucks on the car with the holdback and advertising rebate from GM. I guess I could try to dig into the holdback a bit to save a few more bucks, but I don't want to press my luck. They have been pretty good to me over the years.

    So I guess for this car from this dealer, I won’t need a certificate. Thanks again for the offer, Robert.

    Bill
  • bunky36bunky36 Member Posts: 94
    The GXP has an 8-speaker Monsoon sound system. So does my '03 SSEi. I had the same system in my last ('98) TA. Definitely a major and noticeable improvement over the Bose system. My wife had the Bose system in her '01 GTP. She has an '04 GTP now, also with Monsoon--9 speakers.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    GMS is the invoice cost less ad less holdback. A price of $103 less the GMS, means the dealer paid you to take the car. They have already given away the holdback and there is no advertising rebate unless it is sold GMS. You must have sent a lot of people paying big money for their cars to get such a price. Take it and enjoy. And you are right, with the Driveway Certificate it would probably cost you $1,200+ more.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    So, I had the opportunity to take a GXP on a brief (5 miles or so) test drive today. I must say I really like this car. Very quick and steering felt quite good. The minute you start it up you hear that nice rumble from the exhaust - so intoxicating! I left the stereo off so I could enjoy hearing the engine and exhaust. I wish I could have had a longer drive but I was pressed for time. Seats felt really nice as well. I punched it a few times and it moves very well. The only thing I did not like was the lack of headroom because of the sunroof - problem for me with most vehicles. Overall, very sweet!
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