Pontiac Bonneville

tpken · February 2001

Thanks Iceman - those are the best pics I've seen yet of the LaCrosse. Do you notice the 72 Riviera-like haunches? A boat tail would look great on that car. It looks to me like the Aurora guys would go for this if their car is axed. Not sure about present Park Ave owners though - I think they will be moving into LeSabre Ltd or Caddy if they want to stay planted in the conservative looks, assuming the Park is retired.

That Buick Blackhawk is incredible - I sure hope that car makes it into production. The retro look is hot these days. Ford's concept 49er and production 2002 T-Bird, Chevy's upcoming SSR, the PT Cruiser and Beetle - great reminders of the past with all the latest technology. The long hood on that Blackhawk and the retractable hardtop are SEXY.

What's Pontiac got on the drawing board? I haven't seen anything yet from them that looks like anything mentioned above. The Aztek is an Halloween prank. There's a Piranha making rounds at the car shows that is very futuristic and Gen X targeted. But no retro looks that I've seen yet.

Have a great day, everyone

Ken

tpken · February 2001

Stephen - we're both in the Boston area. I'm north of town heading down I-95 everyday from Maine to Topsfield. Where are you? I noticed a black SSEi in front of me this morning on Rt 62 - wasn't you was it?

Ken

vtech83 · February 2001

Historically, that has been the case, but I think that Buick has closed the gap too much. I drove a Park Avenue Ultra to see what it was like and truthfully, I didn't come away impressed, not for an extra $10,000 anyway. Ultra has the SC engine and a rear parking assist. I also believe that the Ultra has power seat belt adjusters, something that I'm sure us Bonneville and LeSabre owners would love to have.

But that is pretty much it. Just about every other gadget on the Ultra is available on the LeSabre. Ultra is a bigger car, but truthfully, not that much bigger. Heck, even the Bonneville and LeSabre are only a tad larger than the GP and Regal lines.

- vtech83

vtech83 · February 2001

Sorry about the mispelled name.

- vtech83

tpken · February 2001

I just wonder what the relative profit margins are for GM on the Park Ave, LeSabre, Bonneville and Aurora. That, combined with the sales volume will tell the story of whether GM is justified in offering that many slightly differentiated models. It would not surprise me if there is a significant reduction of varying models as GM moves to its new RWD 'midluxe' platform, starting in 2003, I hear. Consolidation is the name of the game these days - redundancy is too expensive. Automobile enthusiasm notwithstanding, unprofitable manufacturers don't stand a chance today.

Back to counting those beans.

Ken

refiner · February 2001

Have you received your stage 2 yet? Somebody wasn't kidding when they said there was a long lead time. I got the composite throttle body spacer but why put that on till I get the stage 2 MAF.

intense01 · February 2001

Refiner:

No dice on the MAF yet. When I ordered they told me I was six out, now I am next. Apparently they can't get cores back quick enough. Their service sucks regardless, just like everyone said it would.

I do have to say they offer some unique items that no one else has, and they seem to be top quality. Their underdrive pulleys are first class, and the throttle body spacer is nice as well.

The following mods are scheduled for this weekend:

- GTP dipstick (still haven't solved the header clearance issue)
- underdrive pulleys
- AFPR
- experimentation with various fuel pressures

Goal = 5.25 second 0 to 60 time

Next weekend (March 3rd) is a big one for the SSEi. The following mods are scheduled:

- heads (ported and polished plus oversized exhaust valves)
- spark plug indexing
- lower intake (ported)
- supercharger (S-ported)
- more fuel pressure experimentation
- slotted front brake rotors
- ceramic brake pads (front and rear)

Goal = 4.99 second 0 to 60 time and short 60 to 0 distance

March 10th weekend:

- 3.0" supercharger pulley
- Stage 2 MAF
- throttle body spacer
- more fuel pressure experimentation
- test drag radials at various pressures

Goal = 4.75 second 0 to 60 time

March 24th weekend:

- 1.7 to 1 roller rocker arms
- more fuel pressure experimentation
- buy helmet and racing fuel for next weekend

Goal = one Bad SSEi

National Trails Raceway opens April 1st. We're certainly gonna surprise a few people!!!

Scott

theiceman · February 2001

Glad you all liked the Lacrosse links. Sorry about the sloppy text editing - ever since I hit 40, my html has gone all to rat dung. I also neglected to add this link which is a MUST WATCH video of the Lacrosse at the Florida car show: http://www.theautochannel.com/content/cybercast/2001autoshows/sflias/buick_lacross.asx. The video shows the side-opening hood, the sliding trunk, suicide doors, etc. that make this an interesting package. The more I watch this, the more comfortable I get with the possible death of the Aurora.

INTENSE!!!, hey! even I'm getting excited about these planned mods - and I only understand just about 1/2 of what you're talking about.

BTW, our van's repair bills are hitting the $thousands and logic dictates that we put it out of our misery and look for something else. We're questionning the need for a minivan and there's this '99 GP GTP that's available for a song. Sorely tempted. Did I say it was black?..... I'm open to any suggestions for a reliable, fun 2nd car that doesn't do daily duty.

zzahh · February 2001

It would seem to me that you should end up with the baddest Bonnie on the block Scott, however, I do wonder just how much time you can possibly shave off of your 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs. Afterall the Bonnie IS a front wheel drive car, and as such 240hp or 2,400hp, at some point h.p. is not an issue, it will make no difference, your times will be related to traction. It would appear you are going to bring a whole new meaning to the phrase "throttle steering".

My money is still on Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. stock options.

mfahey1 · February 2001

Go for it. Not only would it seem that traction is a potential issue but the ability of the tranmission to stand up to that kind of horsepower would be suspect. There are lots of us who also own Chrysler products who would be thrilled to get their transmissions to stand up to 150 hp, much less than 350+. Obviously GM makes a far superior transmission than Chrysler's but there must be practical limits. Also, will the transaxle transfer power to both drive wheels or will you be leaving one very impressive black stripe?

blk2001 · February 2001

BONNEVILLE OWNERS: WHAT DOES "SSEi" MEAN?

ezrapon · February 2001

That's the stupidest question I've ever heard. You own one, they have been around for almost 10 years and you never botherd to find out what it stands for??? Damn!!! That is stupid... come to think of it... I don't know either. What about SE SLE. super sport engine (injected)?

snickle · February 2001

I read somewhere they stand for something like:

Sport Edition
Sport Luxury Edition
Super Sport Edition

as for the i??? Came in early 90s i think. Find what year and what changed and maybe. First year for the Super maybe So in that case induction.

snickle · February 2001

0-60 times get tough. A limited slip tranny would work wonders. As it is Intense will need to rotate his tire after every run.

1/4 mile, can be help with horsepower.

Rule of Thumb for 1/4 mile:

traction shaves time
HP add trap speed

So a slow launch with lots of HP after traction is established can help.

Wonder what it woould take to lock the diff in the tranny?

rea98d · February 2001

1992 was the first year for the supercharger, and the SSEi designation. All supercharged 1992 Bonnevilles were SSEi's, all other 1992 Bonnevilles were either SSE, or SE. There was no SLE moniker, that's just what Pontiac calls the SSE's now.

intense01 · February 2001

Traction - thanks to everyone for pointing out that I have no traction, will have even less in the future, and if I do get some, my car will pull hard to the right.

Transaxle - OK, so it's going to break soon and in a bad way.

I realize I am probably being overly optimistic. Can't help it - that's my nature. When they told me 18" wheels wouldn't fit, that made me want them more. When they told me headers wouldn't fit, I had to get them ordered. When they said a 3.0" exhaust would slow me down, I HAD to prove them wrong. This is how I operate. I enjoy swimming upstream.

The i stands for supercharged. One of you multi-lingual folks can help me remember the German (or maybe Italian) word that is abbreviated with i.

theiceman · February 2001

Snickle confirms MY belief of what the Bonneville acronyms represent. I was talking with my local Pontiac dealer yesterday and nobody in the showroom at the time - even sell-annointed car geeks - knew what the "i" stood for. Some guessed "intercooler" and "interceptor" but quickly withdrew their suggestions.

Since the entire Bonneville line-up had been fuel injected for years before the "i" showed up, it would be strange if it stood for the Italian "injezione". Still, VW, BMW and others continue to use the "i" designation (which originally indicated fuel injection) on their sportier models long after fuel injection was available on their entire lines. So, this may yet be the explanation.

blk2001 · February 2001

SO ........THERE IS NO ONE OUT THERE WITH THE TRUE MEANING OF"SSEi"
WHAT'S UP WITH THE SMALL "i". must be some bad euro influence.
WHEN YOU EXPERTS COME UP WITH THE CORRECT ANSWER LET US KNOW.
YOU CAN "PHONE A FRIEND".

mfahey1 · February 2001

I just finished reading in Motor Trend about a possible Buick GNX revival built off the Regal. 3.8L, intercooled, cold air induction, headers, Borla exhaust, 300 hp. Makes our 240 hp seem like a Civic. Hmmm, don't suppose GM would consider dropping that engine in the SSEi?

theiceman · February 2001

reading mfahey's posting, it occurs to me that the "i" might very well stand for "induction".

For those of you who have never seen the torque and hp curves for the series II engine - supercharged or otherwise - check out this link: http://media.gm.com/product/pontiac/01pontiac/bonneville/bonne.pdf. You must excuse my reaction here (after all, the Bonnie is my very 1st GM) but I am impressed by the flatness of this torque curve.

mfahey1 · February 2001

Iceman, I went to the site that you posted, very impressive but after I retrieved my reading glasses ( does that give a hint as to my age?), it was for the normally aspirated engine, not the supercharged version. Is there a link to that one as well?

theiceman · February 2001

Scroll down - this is a 9 page document & the 1st page gives the hp and torque curves for the normally-aspirated series II and the 2nd provides the curves for the supercharged version. The subsequent pages are just pages of specifications and standard equipment but this document actually goes into the detail like the size of sway bars (for instance, I did not know that the SE has no rear sway bar) and the diameter of the disk brakes.

BTW, I had difficulties printing one of the pages (the 8th I think) but on the whole, I found the info to be the most comprehensive guides to the specifications and equipment for the SE, SLE, and the SSEi.

smfran · February 2001

Ken - I am on the South Shore and my SSEi is Midnight Blue.
Snickle is right about the acronyms although I also am not sure about the "i", and rea98d is correct about the history. Additionally, there were some years that the SLE was a package that did not have its own badging. It was an SE with extras.

kenbidwell · February 2001

I have been told the "i" stands for forced induction. I'm not sure where the "f" from forced is but "i" seems reasonable for induction.

Scott, keep us informed on your progress. I thought I was through making modifications to my SSEi but your plans just may make me do a few more myself!

Ken

theiceman · February 2001

The car geeks checked it out for me (but have no documents to point to) and confirmed that the "i" is an a abbreviation for "forced induction". They supposed that the "f" was dropped for obvious reasons.

Still looking for a replacement for our minivan. I'm thinking sedan, my wife is thinking something else. Looks like she's interested in an Aztek - apparently, once you get over the looks, it's a damned fine vehicle.

rea98d · February 2001

SSEfi? I'm glad it's obvious to some people, but it's lost on me.

Is it ever possible to get over the Aztek's looks? Please, wait and buy a Rendezvous! Much better looking, and essentially the same vehicle underneath!

rea98d · February 2001

Fuel Injected. Never mind that last post. I'm a little slow this morning ;-)

pturner1 · February 2001

Special Sports Edition forced induction

zzahh · February 2001

Well perhaps one of you can help me on this, just curiousity that calls is all. Saw a Bonnie in the rear view, thought it had all the SSE / SSEi ground affects, fog light location, etc. Get's up next to me, has a desigination on the drivers (and I assume) passenger door. A badge that simply stated Supercharged. Rear trunk badge was simply SSE. '92? Something in between? My cousin has a '92 and I am sure his designations are SSEi. Perhaps an early run '92? Hmmm Inquiring minds want to know........

ricks2 · February 2001

I'm considering purcahasing a '94 SSE (93K miles) as a third car. It will be used primarily for carpooling and commuting. Anything I should be looking for?

theiceman · February 2001

I'll bet that was a '94 you saw - I think that was the year that Pontiac dropped the SSEi badge and made the supercharger part of an SSEi package on the SSE. All very confusing. Obviously, the SSEi badge made a comeback

rea98d · February 2001

My grandmother has a 1992 Bonneville SSE with about that many miles on it, and the only trouble she's ever had was alternators going out every 2 years or so. It's a pain, but our local GM dealer never gave us any trouble replacing them, as they said they're supposed to last longer than that. Other than the alternator, I know of no other weak spots in these cars, except that you may receive a few more speeding citations than in a Honda ;-) You should get about 28mpg on the highway in that car, and it's a big car by todays standards. Good luck

tpken · February 2001

My 2000 Bonnie SE is at the dealer today for a few items to be worked out. I had complained of the FM radio band cutting out to static whenever the rear defroster is engaged - and the center of the window does not properly clear. Turns out a new window is being ordered and will be installed. There is an interruption somewhere in the defroster grid that causes interference with the antenna.

Best wishes to all

Ken

jashou · February 2001

There is a Jet Performance "Power Control Module" that just became available for the 2000 SSEi. I spoke to i-5 performance.com and they said it will maximize the air flow and and provide transmission tuning. They said I should see at least 15 more up and increased torque. I believe I am going to order it. Does anyone have any additional info on this?

vocus · February 2001

I regret to say that I am a position where I have to sell my mother's beloved 1993 Pontiac Bonneville SSE with only 77.5K on it. She passed away back in January, and there is just no space to park it at home (restricted permit parking). Plus, I commute 60 miles per day to and from work and cannot afford the gas in it. It's been a great car though, except for the alternator going twice on it and the battery once. That's to be expected though from a Bonneville. I hope it will find a nice home. Selling it for $4500 cash.

jashou · February 2001

Sorry for the typo. They said I should see 15 more HP and increased torque.

zzahh · February 2001

I think the '94 analogy regarding the SSE badge with the "Supercharged" emblem on the front doors may be incorrect. I own a '94 SSEi, and that's what it says SSEi. Beeing such an Einstein, I new it was soupercharged and din't haf to haf it spelt owt four me.

theiceman · February 2001

I had been thinking of one of these myself. A buddy put one on his Grand Prix GTP and claims he noticed the difference (before it was stolen). Unless you're really familiar with chips, you might want to read the postings in the "Bolt-On Mods...More Horses or More Bull?" Edmunds Forum. Mixed experience with chips recounted there and some skeptics too. Although... I have heard +ve things about Jet chips.

I have also heard that most pre-programmed (i.e. non-custom) chips are designed for unmodified engines. If you've changed your sc pulley, for example, the chip might not deliver the full claimed hp gain. I'm sure that Jet will help answer that most basic of questions. While you're at it, ask them if the Bonneville chip negates the speed AND rev limiters?

In the end, I've decided against a chip because they require premium fuel and the claimed added hp at peak revs - which I would use only on occasion just didn't justify the added daily expense of premium fuel for my SLE (of course, that's not an issue in your SSEi). I'd be better off waiting a few years and trading up to an SSEi.

vocus · February 2001

Back in 1993, the supercharged engine became available for the SE models (before the SLE came about). When you see the Bonneville with the "Supercharged" moniker on the front door, it's more than likely an SE model with the supercharged engine installed as an option. I only know, because I saw one being auctioned on EBay Motors a couple months ago.

chevytruck_fan · February 2001

wow I couldn't believe this,even the most biased anti GM magazine on the market gave teh Bonneville a good rating, with Above Average reliability to boot, don't think they ever gave this to a GM car before! Wow

SO how do you guys like your bonnevilles, I haven't been fortunate enough to drive one yet

theiceman · February 2001

Thanks for the tip - which issue of CR would that be? If it's current, I'd like to see it. BTW, I think you'll find that all we Bonnie owners love our cars.

chevytruck_fan · February 2001

you can get it right on their site for free (well I think its free I have a subscription, if its not I can paste the article here).

http://www.consumerreports.org

pat · February 2001

About CR...

In my experience, consumerreports requires a paid membership to view many parts of their site. You can paste a link to something you can see, but you cannot paste the whole article because of copyright issues (addressed in your Terms of Use - link in the upper left of this page).

The link you posted is fine, but in case others cannot get to the article you had in mind without subscribing, you cannot post the article here.

Just wanted to be sure we were clear. :-)

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

smfran · February 2001

A 1988 SE (A sportier LE)
A 1991 SE (Ditto)
A 1994 SE with SLE Package (A sportier SE)
A 1997 SSE (A sportier, etc. SLE)
A 2000 SSEi(A sportier SLE with the supercharger)
Except....
The one that I never had was an SE with the supercharged engine. I believe this was not an option until '97. However, I don't think I have ever seen a Bonneville with the supercharged engine that was not an SSE. I'm sure that they are rare.
If anyone wants more specifics on the packages and badging since 1987, let me know.
Stephen

martyb4 · February 2001

Last night just after filling up, I noticed the Fuel Range shown in my DIC read 489 miles (pretty typical). I wanted to see if I could get to read 500. With a very light touch on the gas pedal on the way home (not typical), I was able to get it up to 522 miles just as I pulled into the driveway.

I know - I am obsessed with my Bonnie, so what! By the way, my dog was more impressed with this feat of skill and daring than my wife was.
Go figure???

tpken · February 2001

With the tank that empty - how many gallons did it take to fill up?

Ken

smfran · February 2001

Pardon my butting in, but how do you know Marty's tank was close to empty?

theiceman · February 2001

Hey Marty! I think we may have a new challenge for the DIC-focused among us. Let's see if anybody can top 522 miles on the range calculator. I know that I've gotten nowhere near that kind of reading - 450 is a good reading for mine - but, hey, I'm game.

Re. your wife's reaction: typical, really - we should never expect others to be as enthusiastic about our DIC's as we are. I'm a little worried about your dog though.

On another front, a local dealer was clearing out their 2000 SE's for $18,500 (in $US and including all Ontario taxes - which are not inconsequential). I called them and they confirmed that they're prepared to deal down from that price. Unfortunately, not too many new 2000 SSEi's floating around.....

tpken · March 2001

sorry Smfran, I was misread that posting - thought Marty filled up AFTER running 522 miles. It appears to be the distance remaining using a feature I do not have on my SE.

Those prices for left-over 2000 SE models look very good. I've seen a lot of used 00's at that price and thought I'd done pretty well to get mine for $16K - looks like a new one for no more than $2K more was possible.

Ken

snickle · March 2001

The response I got from an email:

Yes, the Power Control Unit has been released and is available at this time. The PCU installs under the dash and the wiring must be routed to under the hood. The wires tap into the TPS Sensor and "splice" into the MAP or MAF wire. You will have to Cut the MAP or MAF wire to install the PCU. Suggested retail is $259.95.The PCU will not eliminate the speed or rev limiters.

My question is what doe sit do?

Lies about air intake, and lies about throttle position. Does it do anything else?

I can't tell. I will call them tomorrow.

Pontiac Bonneville

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