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Comments
One of the first things I did after buying the car was to buy a set of new/take-off 16" S-Type wheels that I had fitted with a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin snow tires. While I haven't had a great need for them due to the bizarre weather this winter, we did have one snow that resulted in a few inches of accumulation on the roads. With the snow tires fitted, my rear wheel drive S-Type handled better than any other car I have ever owned -- including front wheel drive cars.
The bottom line is that the only reason anyone would have trouble in the snow with this car is a lack of understanding or appreciation for the limitations of a performance tire. Performance tires cannot be expected to function well in conditions for which they were not designed and never intended. It ain't gonna work! No, it isn't cheap to equip the car for the snow (the wheels plus tires cost me close to $1000), but if you wanted cheap you would buy a Kia, not a Jag.
I again refer anyone interested in more detailed info on this topic to the many excellent posts on the www.Jagtalk.com message board.
Write check to Jag dealer for the white one"
Just be sure it's the white one, because I'm on my way with an eye on the green one!
(I wish! My kingdom for $35,000!)
The White one will be worth $1,500+ more in 2-3 years. Especially so here inthe Southeast (FL).
Still, $35K is a DEAL.
Bill
I haven't been so disappointed in a cars performance/reliability since I owned a 1981 Ford Escort (humorous that they are both Fords!!).
I have the ever present "shimmy" (the steering wheel shakes so badly that it is embarrassing to drive with a passenger in the car). After 7 attempts to get this problem resolved, the regional service rep and the GM have responded with "your car meets Jaguar specifications and is operating accordingly." When questioned if it is normal to shimmy at 50-60mph, they reply "well, due to Jaguars outstanding steering, you will feel more road feel than in other luxury cars!!" If Jaguar is aware that this "shimmy" exists and consider it normal, they should have to disclose this to their customers prior to purchasing a Jaguar.....knowing them, they will probably consider it an accessory and charge for it!
I have had the steering rack replaced, the airbag sensors replaced, the Cd player replaced twice, a metal cover snapped under the carriage of the car, and 4 different sets of tires replaced, the tires balanced 5 x and still no luck.
Most recently, the car is now making a crunching noise when the wheel is turned as well as, the steering wheel making snapping noises when turned. I was advised by the dealership that they are now replacing the airbag sensors/reels again, replacing the bushings and the steering column. I would have to say that a true luxury car with only 7000 miles should not be having this type of problem. I am in a wonderful rental from Enterprise and there is no telling when my car will be returned. Many of the parts are on back order and they haven't even addressed the shaking of the steering wheel!!!
The most disappointing thing about this experience is Jaguar's lack of customer service. I know that I can easily pursue and win a case utilizing the lemon law but, why should a customer who spent $49,000.00 have to be put through that exercise when it is plain to see the automobile is defective. After numerous letters to Mike O'Driscoll (president of Jaguar motor cars), I have never received a follow-up call from him. I have spoken with his "assistant" numerous times but, they are not willing to admit to a defective product.
In summary, DON'T BUY a Jaguar......run away from the dealership as fast as you can. Don't get taken in by the S-types beautiful looks. Unless you want to own "the worlds prettiest PARKED car!"
I will be regaining my wits and returning to BMW to drive a true performance/luxury car and can't wait to get out of this overpriced, unreliable Ford! Jaguar, you should be ashamed of yourself!
My only salvation is sharing my story with others. I have successfully talked 5 people out of purchasing a Jaguar and get some satisfaction out of knowing that they are losing future sales. I am a walking billboard for Jaguar and one that they can't afford to keep! (Did I mention I sell Real Estate and have about 15 people in my car every month!!)
Is there a support group for S-type owners...if not, we need a 10 step program to learn how to deal with our lemons!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globemegawheels/20020321/cat.html
http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car181.html
http://www.carlist.com/newcars/2003/jaguarstyper.html
I sympathize with the previous poster. It's certainly no fun getting a lemon. Just be glad you didn't buy a Benz! The S-Class, M-Class and CLK all got atrocious reliability ratings from Consumer Reports. The remainder of their product line rated merely average, as did the Jaguar S-Type.
Looking at the reliability ratings for all German makes, it appears reliability is becoming a widespread problem over there. Other models that CU readers rated worse than average included:
Audi
A6
TT
BMW
X5
Porsche
Boxter
Volkswagen
Beetle
Models which rated above average cars included:
BMW
5-Series
Z3
Volkswagen
Passat
The rest of the models from these makers either rated average, or were too new to rate.
If it is reliability you seek, go with an Acura, Lexus or Infiniti. All of the models built by these makers, with the exception of the Lexus IS300, rated above average in terms of reliability.
I also have been in many Fords, and I, along with many other people, will tell you that they are nothing like Jaguars. If you had believed the S-TYPE to really be what you called an "overpriced, unreliable Ford", then why did you buy one in the first place?
As for your car, you should do whatever it takes to get Jaguar to fix it for you. You should not have to suffer there with a broken car. Call in the lemon laws if you have to, but do not just go around complaining about your car and insulting Jaguar. Five people does not make a dent in Jaguar's sales, and I don't think that your short term satisfaction from driving away potential buyers is going to really satisfy you in the long run the way a properly functioning car would.
Overall, we are both regretting our decision to purchase jaguars!
I'm certain if you were having 1/2 of the issues we were, you wouldn't be a huge cheerleader for Jaguar Cars!
Jaguar happens to have the second highest initial quality (lexus is number one) and the third highest overall dependability( Lexus and Infiniti were one and two). However, cars are still built by people. Nothing is perfect, but they are getting there. I'm not that old and even I remember when the thought of Jaguar as the third most reliable car in the world would have seemed a little strange.
The 2003 was very nice, and now has a dashboard similar to the X and larger sedans. Huge improvement.
The Jag S-R is a pretty car, but I think they made a mistake with the "mesh" grille. More than one observer thought it looked cheap.
You make it sound as if you've had quite a bit of experience with getting Jaguars to buy back lemons.
All I've heard from car magazines is how much better the new Jaguars are than the old, but I see more people having reliability problems here than I do on the www.jag-lovers.org mailing lists for the Series III XJ's! Who knows, maybe all the truly horrible XJ6's have died off by now and all we're left with now is the 10% that were actually decent cars.
1. Lexus
2. JAGUAR
J.D. Powers Ratings for New Car Reliability
1. Lexus
2. Infiniti
3. JAGUAR
Need I say more?
If it is an R it gets a mesh grill period. That is how you know it is an "R". Besides with 400HP and 400 ft/lbs of torque how many people get to see the front except in their rearview mirror before it passes them
Did into their definitions. How long is new car initial quality" period? 30 days? 60 days? 90 days? 6 months? 3,000 miles? 6,000 miles? 12,000 miles?
And does "new car initial quality" have any correlation to "older car later reliability"? Say after 3-5 years? Over after 50,000-75,000 miles?
Companies with poor quality and a lack of customer satisfaction do not get put on the top of the rankings and do not get recommendations or awards. Omission can be just as powerful as flat-out stating dislike for someone or something. (Therefore, I will not tell you how I feel about you and your constant attempts to discredit anything in which BMW is not highly ranked. If BMW had scored as high as Jaguar in the JD Powers rankings, then you would not be discrediting them right now.)
And while we are in the Jaguar S-TYPE message board, the S-TYPE is a vehicle which is "RECOMMENDED" by the highly regarded and "less biased" (as Riez says) CONSUMER REPORTS. The entire Jaguar model line could not be "RECOMMENDED" because CONSUMER REPORTS could not collect enough data on it, and therefore has "N/A" listed in many ranking areas.
At least JD Powers is thorough, and Jaguar ranks high in both JD Powers and CONSUMER REPORTS.
In the family:
1997 XJ6 76K. $200 since warranty expired in repair costs.
1995 VDP 138K $610 since warranty expired in repair costs.
Bill
V-E-R-Y G-O-O-D!
Really now, what is your point? I realize that there are different categories in the JD Powers scorings, etc. Jaguar just happens to have done extremely well in many of the important areas such as reliability, quality, and customer satisfaction (I've checked). You just cannot seem to accept that JD Powers rated Jaguar just below Lexus and in the number 2 spot. At least, that is what I am getting from your constant messages on the subject.
So what are you trying to say?
Is possible for almost every car company to say they do well in one or more of J.D. Power's many, many categories. But there is not necessarily any relationship or correlation between one category and another. So companies A-B-C might do well in initial quality but fall down for intermediate or long-term quality. They even have categories on how people perceive cars before buying. So a company can say their product led in new car desireability, as if that is any meaningful information.
For example, latest issue of Roundel has an article on BMW's web page. Author writes: "No doubt BMW deserved the top ranking in the J.D. Power and Associates 2001 Manufacturer Web Site Evaluation." Did you know J.D. Power ranked web sites? Why is J.D. Power ranking web sites? And wouldn't you love to know how J.D. Power comes up with this ranking of car companies' web sites?
They have so many categories that they are becoming meaningless. Brand devaluation. You'd have to have all their categories and see the data for all companies to get the real picture of their information on the quality, reliability, and durability for various marques. And all the companies seem to use one or more J.D. Power award ranking in their ads. But they all can't be winners, or can they?
2001 JD Power study on long-term (5 year) dependability
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/01102a.gif:
Jaguar - 3rd
Lincoln - 4th
Cadillac - 8th
Mercedes - 10th
2001 JD Power study on customer satisfaction with dealer service
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/0127a.gif:
Cadillac - 3rd
Lincoln - 8th
Jaguar - 12th
Mercedes - 13th
2001 JD Power study regarding customer satisfaction with the sales experience
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/0139a.gif:
Cadillac - 2nd
Jaguar - 5th
Lincoln - 6th
Mercedes - 8th
Jaguar, Cadillac and even lowly Lincoln do better than MB. Lexus, on the other hand, is at the top of every list.
SC
As far as the tranny - it uses the Ford 5R55N same as the LS, Tbird and Explorer/Mountaineer. I think the 2003 switches to a ZF automatic. The S-type and Lincoln LS (and T-bird) all are built on the same DEW98 platform and share the basic chassis, suspension, engine blocks and transmissions and tires. You may find more relevant info on your S-type in the Lincoln LS forum or at llsoc.com (Lincoln LS owners club) which caters to all DEW98 based models.
I just purchased a Pacific Blue 2002 S-Type Sport V8!!! With nav and voice. Got an incredible deal, since 2003's are right around the corner.
I'm having the Monaco wheels put on the car, should be just like the picture! (hehehe)
I pick it up Monday!
Saw it in clean up today, wow, what a color!
Does anybody else have the Jag Monaco wheels?
How do you like them?
And, does anyone know if you can control any of the navigation with the voice recognition option?
I will post some pics when it's parked safely in my garage!!!
Pretty color too!
Now comes the surprise. Shortly after the dealer agreed to put on new tires I hear from a Bridgestone dealer I had consulted. Bridgestone Tech. people admitted that the Turanza EL 42 tires, original equipment on the 2002 S Type 3.0, are "not compatable" with that car and they would replace them under warranty with any other Bridgestone tire.
I told my dealer this and he called the same Tech. office and got the same answer. I do believe the dealer did not know this, however, I am not convinced that the factory did'nt know it.
Bridgestone claimed it is not a recall or a safety problem but "if there is a concern" they would relpace them.
This could be the answer to some of you guys "shimmy" problem. My tires were replaced at 3500 miles and I must say the dealer tried his best to please me.
I have had two other problems that the dealer took care of immediatly. The control Module for the anti-lock brakes went bad and the drivers window motor squealed and that was replaced.
I recently turned in a 2000 Lincoln LS with 40000 miles and very few problens. If my S Type was'nt 40% Ford I would not have gone near it.
I hope you guys with the wheel shimmy look into the tire solution, a $49000 car should drive as smooth as silk.
Bill
The replacement tires the dealer put on my S Type are the Michelin Pilot XGT H4. Nice tire and it does the trick for me. No more "shimmy".
In my opinion, the new dash makes the car much more classy, but the rear end could still use a few styling tweaks.
Anybody getting the Ford discount on a Jag S purchase? One dealer said yes, but only on the 3.0. Another one said yes (to the 4.2) but only if I buy from stock. (Northern NJ area.)
The up side:
It's a fast fun-to-drive car. The engine and transmission are smooth as silk. That ZF tranny provides wonderfully smooth shifts with very little lag. In sports mode it seemed delightfully aggressive, but maybe it was just my imagination running away with me. When I found an open road, I opened up the throttle. Before I knew it, the car was zooming along in the triple digit range of the dial. It handled superbly in the twisties, and at the same time was very comfortable for everyday driving. For me, the car struck a perfect balance between comfort and handling.
I've never closely examined a Jaguar finish before, but I did when I test-drove that S-Type. Few manufacturers, if any, make as smooth a finish as Jaguar. Almost no detectable orange-peel texture -- it looked like glass. The Sapphire blue made the car even more beautiful. Unfortunately, the salesman told us that color was being discontinued. What a shame.
I thought the interior looked very elegant. The wood was tasteful, and I much preferred the Jaguar interior's swoopy lines more than the sharp angles used in cars like the CTS.
The down side:
It's interior dimensions felt a bit cramped to me (I'm six feet tall). I found my knees touching the dash when the driver's seat was pulled up far enough to ensure rear passenger would have sufficient leg room. When the front seat was adjusted back to where I was comfortable, rear seat leg room disappeared. For my needs, this was unsatisfactory.
There was also some tire noise on rough roads. On smooth roads, however, the car was as quiet as can be.
What to do?
My wife loved the car. It was just what she wanted, and she was willing to overlook the shortcomings I mentioned. For me, the car scored enough positive points for me to overlook its flaws. What the heck. If it makes her happy, then why not?
When we got around to negotiations, however, things didn't look so good. They were completely unwilling to budge from retail, and tried to lowball my trade, so I walked away. Maybe they will be more reasonable in the fall when there are a few sitting on the lot.
Bill
Figured you two would get along
If you do the deal, tell him Bill Weismann says Hi.
Bill
Please email me with your concerns and we'll either work them out or I'll give you other resources to pursue if necessary.
Thanks!
Pat
Sedans Host
The dealer said he would give me a good deal on a 2003 trade, but I have cold feet. Does this problem should familar?
It's possible that the dealer screwed up the replacement. If it's any consolation, the 2003 Stype uses a totally different tranny than previous models - a ZF 6-speed automatic. If you otherwise like the Stype I would go for the 2003.
P.S. Before you decide to attack! I own a Jaguar S-Type.
The 2003 S-TYPE has voice activated controls(with many updates), the latest in the advanced computer controlled CATS suspension system, height/distance adjustable accelerator and brake pedals, a new manual transmission option, or the first-in-class ZF 6-speed adaptive automatic transmission that it shares with the new BMW 7-Series, a supercharged R variant, DOHC engines with continuously variable valve timing (Mercedes still only uses SOHC engines), and many other new features that compete in the technology department. Even its beautiful grille now automatically moves-in a few inches in the event of a collision as to not sustain damage in the crash. Many of those items are standard on the S-TYPE, where as all of the features you mentioned on the E-Class are high-priced options. The S-TYPE doesn't seem to be lacking in equipment at all.
Doesn't Cadillac have a feature on its cars that close the trunk automatically, and Lincoln (heck, even the GMC Envoy) have air-ride suspensions like the one on that 2003 Mercedes? Mercedes-Benz must have gotten its motors for the electric trunk-lids from parent company DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler/Dodge minivans with electric hatches. Big-rig trucks on the highways have "distronic" cruise control, and have had it longer than any luxury cars have. If you want really new technology in a car, the Cadillac Deville has the option of night-vision (but like most all of these features and gadgets, most drivers will barely use them).
Technology aside, leather and wood are all standard features on the S-TYPE, where you have to upgrade from pleather/vinyl and plastic in the Mercedes for it, and even then it isn't the same fine Connolly and birds-eye maple and there still isn't nearly as much of it as in the Jaguar, which also has a starting price almost $8,000 less than the stripped Mercedes. Not to mention the terrible reliability problems M-B is having (it makes Jaguar's past reliability problems on the older XJ's seem like normal wear and tear!) Besides, the S-TYPE has a bigger hood ornament than that gunsight on the E-Class :-)
We have a 2002 new E-series MB now, and have put only 1000 miles on it so far. It is a magnificent machine. I have driven both the 2003 MB E-series and in fact rented a 2002 S-type 4.0 L for four days. The Jag is magnificent, too, but is vastly quieter than the MB. In fact, it was a bit disconcerting to step on the accelerator and have the Jag move forward briskly with no sound whatever from the engine compartment.
Oh, yes: I will be ordering a 2003 S-type Jag in September. The dealer tells me to wait until then because there will be favorable promotions.
Cheers, and happy motoring!
P.S. I own a S-Type and still love my S-Type, but in a few years if Jaguar can not or will not move into this new automotive millenium. I'll be rolling eyeballs and opening my wallet to a New Mercedes Benz E-Class! Whether you like it or not this New 2003 Mercedes Benz E-Class is King of Hill in the mid-size luxury segment by a 1,000,000 miles, that Sweetheart is pure sugar!!!
Thanks,
- Ray
Who enjoyed driving a 2001 S-Type V8 Sport in Arizona last Summer . . .