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Cadillac DeVille

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Comments

  • vic19vic19 Member Posts: 56
    Hydra, the facts don't agree with your argument.

    BMW does have a number of models but the resale value of each is identifiable.

    For example, using Kelly wholesale blue book as an example, using the same number of miles and condition:

    BMW 530i current new retail $39,500
    Three year old model $28.000

    Cadillac Deville new retail $42.500
    Three year old model $15.000

    Difference in depreciation $16,000

    Using your other theory that depreciation is equalized by the fact that Cadillacs are severely discounted, you'd have to get a $16,000 greater discount on the Cad to even things out.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I could give a rat's "you know what" if a BMW has better resale than a Cadillac. Resale is somewhat important, but when I hear people just going on and on about how much better their resale value is, I wonder if they really do like their car all that much if all they are concerned about is what it's worth when they get rid of it.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    VIC.. where are you getting those prices ?
    I am shopping a new Caddy now. New
    Deville base ,bose and roof $44xxx.
    My 96 Deville was only $37xxx.
    Come on now............geo

    BTW as for kelly book and others BULL.
    Stop over to smart shopper thread and
    check REAL world trade values.....
    Bill, Terry, and the rest of the crew
    will tune you up quick on trade in
    prices!
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    Our old DeVille Concours purchased in 1994 (95 models) cost 40-something k, when we traded it in in 2000 we got about 15k for it. What you have just said is a big, fat lie you yourself made up. And where are you getting this 42k DeVille from?

    A loaded DTS will fetch about 60k...and a reasonable DTS is about 53-55k. According to Edmunds, our 2001 DTS (2 years old), which was purchased for 53,000 USD is now worth TMV 38,000 as a certified used vehicle. Where's the massive depreciation??
  • vic19vic19 Member Posts: 56
    I simply compared the MSRP of the BMW and the Cadillac without options. The trade in numbers are what Kelly indicates a 1999 car would fetch.

    If you add options to the new car price, you'll just create more depreciation.

    There is no way you will get 38k for a 2 year old Cadillac. A brand new one is available for $4,000 less than invoice which makes it about 38k or less.

    Go to Kelly and take a look.

    If you like Cad's that's fine, but you'll pay for it in depreciation.
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    How does subtracting 4,000 from 53,000 equal 38,000??!! Furthermore, the incentives are either 0% financing for up to 5 years, or a 3,000 USD rebate on the 2002s. That is far less than the 8,000 USD rebate placed on the new BMW 7.
  • vic19vic19 Member Posts: 56
    Deville base model
    (Incentive or rebates included in price)
    MSRP $43,720
    Invoice $40,498
    CarsDirect,com price $37,298

    Unless Cadillac dealers are going broke, there's more factory assistance than just the $4,000.

    CarsDirect.com Price $68,495
    MSRP $68,495
    Invoice $63,169

    I'm shopping for a 7 and dealers are discounting them, but only a $1,000 or so. Where is the $8,000.

    But all this is irrelevant. Tell me why my deprectiation numbers are incorrect.
  • baron87baron87 Member Posts: 93
    I just gave you the reasons based on to real life examples. Why should I trust CarsDirect.com? Why don't you take your figures from the source? Like GMBuyPower.com, maybe then we'll believe you.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    That 44k deville minus 4000 rebate,2000
    cad bonus cert, plus 6000 gm employee dis.
    and 2k gm card for 30k plus tax, tag, no
    adv. fee and 20buck doc fee........geo
    If I was worried about resale I would
    buy another GM full size xcab 4x4
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    BMW and Cadillac are different cars for different buyers. One is a full size American fwd luxury sedan, the other is a rwd compact or mid size at best sports sedan. Different cars for different buyers.

    The Cadillac as a family sedan has compromises in the handling and exclusive departments which favor the BMW. The lower new and used prices are an asset for the typical Cadillac buyer especially if he can get a loaded DTS sans nav and night vision for 45k. If you drive the car 7-10 years as many buyers do, depreciation is not the bear it seems to be. It is also easier to sell used both because it will be cheaper than a BMW and because most people are more nervous about the realibility and cost of parts and repairs on older BMW's vs. older Cadillacs. Why do you think older BMW's are relatively rare?

    The BMW as a sports sedan has compromises with power seats, limited back seat room, limited trunk space and rather pricey when equipped for the real world. Most buyers opt for the AT and other goodies which quickly send its price into the stratosphere---hence the need for great lease deals since the last time I checked price does matter. That's why most import "family" cars like Camry, Accord, Altima and Passat are sold in the four banger versions.

    Kelly Blue Book is a joke. Used MT cars move slowly and usually only with big discounts (yes, even if they are BMW's)

    For safety and convenience (to avoid scams and fraud)sellers with more expensive cars tend to be forced onto the tender mercy of the new car dealer where high trade in values often turn into mirages.

    Different cars with different advantages, disadvanges and prices.

    Everyone should buy what he/she likes and be happy with it.
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    1500 miles on my DTS.

    Hard to believe these 300 ponies require 87 octane.

    MPG still improving. 17-24 so far.

    The power, the power, the power. I rarely need to stand on the gas to downshift. I gently apply pressure to the pedal and the surrounding cars recede in my rear-view mirror so fast that I'm forced to check my speed and look out for Chicago's finest. Naturally, with a wide grin on my face.

    Love the Cashmere color. Not too common.

    Installed some wheel locks and feel better about the center caps eluding the grasp of the midnight auto boys.

    Love the car. I jump at any excuse to drive somewhere. Can't wait for my next trip.
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    Just one and its of the nitpicking variety. The memory seats and mirrors seem to have amnesia at times. They don't return to the exact positions and sometimes they confuse drivers.

    Other than that, everything works as advertized. Love the steering wheel stereo controls and the lumbar massage.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Glad your enjoying your new Caddy. Did you get the XM radio option? Also have you tried Onstar yet?
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    I passed on the XM radio. I prefer cd's.

    Have not tried the Onstar yet.

    Took the caddy to TN for wife's family reunion. I was surprised and a bit embarrassed by the fact that whenever people needed a ride they wanted to ride with me instead of the many Buicks, Benzes, Lincolns, Toyotas, one BMW and one Lexus available to them.

    Wife and back seat passengers put the tri-zone temp system through its paces.

    The roomy trunk is everything I had hoped it would be.
  • psedrishpsedrish Member Posts: 49
    I have the Nav pkg on an '02 DHS, so I had to add the XM as an aftermarket item. I drive a fair amt & I would say XM is something I'd not like to do without again. It's like going from 'rabbit ears' on your home TV to satellite.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I'm with you all the way on XM. I added it to my Olds Intrigue and will never again go without. Best $10 a month I spend. I like Onstar too, but could easily live without it if I had to choose between it and XM.
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    Glad you like the XM. But, as I said,when I travel, I prefer CD's because I have a huge collection. Also, my daily commute is only about 15 minutes (probably less if I really crank the Northstar). Didn't feel that such a short commute time would allow time to play with XM. Plus, I read at least one review that complained about XM reception. How's your reception?

    Any comments on Night Vision? Glad/sorry you got it/didn't get it?
  • cadillac1cadillac1 Member Posts: 51
    I can't find any real old deville topics, so I'll just ask you guys. My mom owns a 98 deville concourse. At around forty thousand miles the car began eating 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles. At first the dealer said it was normal. We did not except this answer. Then they said they would do an oil consumption test where they have her go in every thousand miles so they can measure oil consumption. Now they say we need an engine de-carb. Supposedly their is too much of a gap between the cylinger head and some other part of the engine. The dealer says this is a design flaw of the northstar. This de-carb treatment take 2 days and cost 500 bucks. We have an extended warranty but the dealer claims it is not covered. Are they right?

    Secondly, this question will probably go unaswered but here goes. My mom got in a accident with her deville concourse when it had only twelve thousand miles on it. The front was badly damaged and repair costs came to 11k.(thank god for insurance). I know the left front suspension had to be replaced, not sure about the right front. As many of you know, the deville concours's cadillac emblem is found in the grill, their is not a hood emblem. Well when we got the car back from the dealer, their was a hood ornament. The reason I bring this up this that the deville concourse is supposed to have a stiffer, less bouncy suspension. Well since we got the car back, my moms car bottoms out on any speed bump or drive way entrance unless she almost comes to a complet stop. This can be dangerous when making turns into parking lots on busy streets. Is it possible the dealer put the standard deville suspension in my moms car when they repaired it? Is their any way I can find this out? If it is the the correct suspension, does my mom need new shocks or something? We have already replaced the peice under the front of the car that keeps dirt and water out of the engine bay, two times at $150 a pop.

    Has anyone else had this problem and how did you resolve it. I would appreciate any answers you can give.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    XM reception is very good, the only area where service is not good is in the mountains where the trees cover the road. Since there are no repeaters in the national park and the view of the sky is blocked, service is limited, otherwise reception is fine.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...may actually be a leak. Check around the oil pan plug. The oil pan plug uses a rubber grommet and should be replaced every time the oil is changed. Also check the oil cooler line located near the filter. I experienced this problem with my '94 DeVille. The repair was simple and inexpensive. Never suffered an unusual oil consumption problem afterwards.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    My 96 from brand new used 1 qt. oil from
    new at 3000 or so miles. Now at almost 90k
    uses none (almost). Must be just broke in.
    As far as bottoming out mine is doing the
    same now...Dealer only strut fix $2500 bucks.
    97 and up are aftermarket fix for 1000 bucks.
    Shopping now for a new CTS.
    I wish i had a new seville like lemko !
    Lemko; hows that 300 horse monster treating
    ya ? Cheesesteak please...no cheese wiz tho !
    LOL.geo
  • danasaur2danasaur2 Member Posts: 1
    Am thinking of buying a '92 cadillac deville in apparently pristine shape. Ay comments of insights on the engine, etc. or this car's performance?

    Thanks
    danasaur2
  • tamcotamco Member Posts: 40
    I have owned 14 new Cadillac's, and a few Lincoln's, BMW740il's and two M/B as well as several hot Chevys, Pontaic Firebirds and a Porche over the past 40 years. This current series Cadillac is the best car I ever drove. You will love it. I now have over 31000 on my 2001 DHS White Diamond Beauty and it has one of one of everything. We love the Navigational System,OnStar and Night Vision....I never will ever drive a car without them. The main reason I choose the DHS over DTS is the six people capacity and Automatic Window Shades and Adaptive Seats. Once the engine is truly broken in , soon you will find the you will find the gas milage at 70-80 mph increasing to 28mpg+ and oil consumption at 3000 miles per Qt. I too, drive in ILL and Wisc.and fast. Guess that I am still a kid at heart. If you want to get an extra 25HP + out of the NorthStar engine ...get the K&N Filtercharger Air Filter. You get more punch and better MPG too. The StabilTrac Suspension truly gives the drive confidence in quick handling and sharp turns and hilly narrow roads. Cadillac service has vastly improved over the years ...you will love the car ....best of luck. Oh, I almost forgot, buy an Escort 8500 before you get a ticket. Remember, the new series Cadilliac NorthStar's are made to be driven FAST! TAMCO
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    Wow, that's some auto history.

    I'm still at 1700 miles, but about to take another trip.

    Still haven't come close to abusing the engine because of the nagging comments in the owner's manuel about early all-out braking leading to premature brake wear, but I think I'll soon be throwing caution to the winds. What has been your experience with the brakes?
  • nathanmerrillnathanmerrill Member Posts: 4
    What would you drive if there were:

    1. No crowds to please (including family)
    2. No "styling" to worry about
    3. Cost wasn't a factor (either purchasing or operating)

    In short if there were "no boundaries" and no one was going to see you drive it, what would you have?
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Well, since you posted this is a Cad Deville messagae group, I assume you meant to restrict the purchase to this car.

    A fully loaded red DTS.

    If you didn't mean to restrict it, you should start another topic.
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    The current issue of Barrons points out that most mid and high priced lux brands are offering various discounts or financing incentives as a means of reversing surprising May/June sales declines of up to 15% or as a way of maintaining strong sales in an ever more competitive environment. Even BMW was mentioned as offering a zero down lease. Brands included: Acura, Audi, MB, Saab, Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, Land Rover, Jag, Porsche and even Cadillac (except CTS which it suggested is too hot-selling to need incentives).

    Btw Lexus, Infiniti, Saab, BMW and Cadillac were singled out as having higher sales.

    On a different note the imports (just like the domestics)are advertising like crazy in print media, online and on tv.

    "Free" maintenance, service loaners, road side assistence, one year OnStar service, coffee and rolls and Chrysler's new longer warranty (and the Passat) are other forms of marketing rebates utilized by different brands in order to rebate without seeming to do so.

    Stop letting the Cadillac-haters pretend that Cadillac is the only lux model in the "business" of selling cars or offering incentives in order to sell lots of cars. Everyone does it, under competitive pressure, but they often do it in different ways. There is nothing like a recession to remind us that luxury cars, by definition, tend to be overpriced.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Lexus is currently running 4.9& APR on RX300s and Infiniti is known to discount their models quit often. Also saw a lease deal for a Lexus IS300 for $299 a month. Reading the fine print you learn it is a terrible deal. 60 month lease with about $2500 due at signing.
  • robh3robh3 Member Posts: 157
    I'd say, based on your story, that there's a very good chance that the autobody/repair shop you brought your car to installed the wrong parts on your mom's Concours.

    The fact that they installed body parts for the standard Deville (hood mounted ornament, and I presume therefore also the wrong grill without the wreath and crest), that tells me that all of the parts they ordered were for a base Deville.

    They are idiots, and I'd have made them correct the body parts the second I saw they did it wrong.

    I wish I could tell you what to look for on the suspension to see if it's right. If you can bring the car to a Caddy dealer whose service dept. you'd trust to give you the straight scoop, then I'd have them check it out and let you know. They should know the difference, if not by initial sight, then by part number(s).
  • edwardt1edwardt1 Member Posts: 20
    I have had a recurring problem with my
    2001 Deville. It usually occurs in the morning.
    Applying brake pressure while backing-up
    creates a a loud noise almost like a fog horn.
    In May I was told Cadillac had issued a service bulletin. This fix lasted about 6 weeks and the
    problem returned. The service manager said he noticed that some of the Armoral that I used on the tires had gotten on the brakes and that was what was causing the problem. Has anyone ever heard of Armoral or tire shine products causing
    break problems. I have very serious doubts about
    this because I such an infrequent user of tire shine products.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
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  • tamcotamco Member Posts: 40
    Hydra,

    With 32,000 plus miles on my on my 2001 DHS I have had no problems with brakes. And as I mentioned before I drive fast and in hilly areas.

    Altho,I had to put on a new set of Michelins at 31,000 miles. They said there was 5000 miles left on tread, but why chance a problem at 85 mph plus.

    TAMCO
  • jgranatajgranata Member Posts: 70
    the oil consumption issue could indeed be due to the carbon build-up. this problem has been acknowledged by gm and can significantly reduce consumption of oil. that explanation is legit. jackg
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    At my local Cad dealer 18-24 k miles
    $28995. They had 5 but all in cashmere,
    or no sale green ! Ex rentals tho !
    Syracuse NY...NO CTS to be found !
    They have a nice ruby 02 Deville with
    chromies,roof,bose,bun warmers too...
    35k with rebate and GM employee disc.
    ......geo
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    The grin on my face gets wider each time I take my one month old dts for a drive. Impatient for my next trip. Mpg in mostly city and construction area driving only 16-17 mpg. No real problems, squeaks or rattles, so far. I see lots of DeVilles and CTS' on the road. Both are sharp. Have the DeVille posters moved over to the CTS board?

    Car does not seem to have burned any oil in first 1700 miles. Anyone know where the 1/2 quart low reading on the oil dip stick is approximately located?
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    No wish to open old wounds...

    After I re-read the oldest posts in this forum, I realized why you are so upset with your Cadillac experience.

    Even though 2000 was the first year of the new DeVille design, the problems you had are among the worst I have read or heard about and should not happen even in a first year design. I thought I had some tales to tell about my former Chrysler LHS, but they are as nothing compared to your constant aggravations. The service worker joyriding your car on the weekend had to be like salt in your wounds. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't pursue the lemon law remedies.

    I trust you are much happier in your current situation.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    ...understanding words. My problems with my DTS were not applicable to lemon laws as they were all different problems that happened with the car. Lemon laws refer to the same recurrent problem(s), which cannot be fixed and/or which remain a problem(s). Anyway, I did enjoy the crimson pearl beauty when everything was in working order.
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    I'm looking at what dealers have left in the base and DTS models. Can anyone that has purchased recently tell me if invoice less the rebate is the going rate? Thanks. Jack
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    I can get a new 02 base, crimson paint,roof,bose,
    chromies, bunwarmers f&r 45k sticker
    for 35k with rebate and GMS employee discount
    minus 2k Cad bonus cert and gm mc card points.
    But I can get a 02 base used 17k miles for
    25k american in Canada !
    Used 02 base Devilles in syracuse ny for 29k
    All prices plus tax and tag.......
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    That Deville in Canada is a 01. Salesman
    pulling my chain ! So tired of waiting for
    a Caddy dealer to do gm employee deal on
    a CTS !
    Found a 02Deville base Pearl Red, bose,
    chromies,bose, roof , bun warmers for
    45k sticker......With rebate, 2k caddy
    loyalty cert.,gm employee discount and
    gm MC bonus cash 30K plus tax and tag !
    Minus 6k trade for my 96...Its in watertown
    too....Woman loves the color !......geo
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Have you tried to get a GMS price on an SLS? I had a 2002 SLS as a rental while in Milwaukee last week and absolutely loved it. I'm not sure how the SLS price compares to a base Deville but unless space is an issue, I like the SLS better.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    The woman don't like the bucket seats !
    The STS is about 5000 more. Nice car
    tho. Its just that first year dep. is
    what hurts tho !.........geo
  • altamontealtamonte Member Posts: 1
    After many years during which I have owned one of most anything available in the US, I just bought an '02 DTS as the sedan to add to my Jeep, Dodge pickup, and BMW Z3. Why ?

    Because I don't need to go 155 MPH on the autobahn, but only about 80-85 or so out here in the open west. Because I want a quiet ride, in a roomy car that can seat 4 real adults, with a sound system that's good enough for my 47 year old ears. Because I want enough handling so that I can avoid the occasional critter on the road - without telegraphing every crack in the pavement. Because I want value for my money. Because I don't need to drive an Benz, Lexus, or BMW to prove that I have it made. Because I don't race from stop light to stop light against Lexus GS430's.

    The car magazines that compare the DTS to European sport sedans are comparing apples to oranges. The young obsess with perfection. That's why the "tune" Honda Civics with $20K worth of paint, wheels and turbo's. As I got older, I realized that what I really wanted is a car with an engine that starts, a roomy interior that cools or heats as required, and a sound system that can play the AM talk news station or Vivaldi on a CD. All done without fuss, bother, or the need to read the manual for the thousand function joystick.

    I don't use a 4x4 dual wheel 1 ton diesel pickup all chromed out and lowered (!) to get groceries, and I don't need a $80K sport sedan to drive to the office or out to dinner and the symphony.

    So, if you are keeping up with the Jones's, drive something else. Maybe Cadillac's marketers are on the right track after all.

    Now, would I change anything - sure. Remember thought, I bought it the way it was.

    Come on Cadillac - either make the wheels on the DTS symetrical like on the DHS and base, or make a left and a right rotationally specific set.

    Give me an engine with low end torque not high end HP. The high perf Northstar in the DTS comes on like a champ at 4500 RPM, but that's too fussy for day to day driving - and mileage suffers too. Either that, or go all the way and spend the bucks for a variable valve timing system.

    Finally, fix the control stalks behind the steering wheel - the ones on the Seville are just about right - get that into the DTS.

    The rest - leave it alone - you have it right for me.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    Good post.
  • hydra2hydra2 Member Posts: 114
    Saw a white older DeVille (D'Elegance)with both a padded top and a spoiler. My first reaction was to laugh as I believe in the less is more philosophy of mods on lux automobiles. But, as I examined it from different angles, the spoiler started to look better and better. It was tastefully done and seemed to really fit the car. A wing on a DeVille, I was forced to admire the audacity of the owner. I just hope he/she is a spirited driver. Anyone see winged DeVilles out there? This was in Lansing, IL. Please comment.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    I don't think I've seen a wing on a Deville, but I have seen one on an older(early 90s) Seville before. Looked okay, but I think Caddies look best when left alone. That means no gaudy chrome wheels(factory ones are okay), no extra body cladding, no imitation Rolls Royce Grille, no spoiler, and CERTAINLY no aftermarket padded top!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...no Vogue tyres! There's a local Cadillac dealer that junks up its used cars with "roadster" tops, gold packages, Vogue tyres, and sometimes an imitation RR grille. What are they trying to do - make their used inventory so grotesque that you're forced to buy a new car? Of course I've seen one of their steady customers. He's got the most pimped-out red 1998 DeVille that I've ever seen! It's candy apple red with a white padded top, chrome wheels with gold wreath and crest, Vogue tyres, gold and chrome RR grill, fake Continental kit, and a chrome fuel filler flap! Fortunately, my dealer is a lot more tasteful. I've seen none of their cars with this self-destructive add-on junk.
  • sonjaabsonjaab Member Posts: 1,057
    Hey Guys...Just got a New 02 Deville
    sat....Pearl white, roof, bose, chromies,
    bun warmers, etc...As you know I an sick
    of waiting for a Caddy dealer to do GMO/
    GMS deal on a CTS. Maybe next time a V 8
    CTs will be in my future ! Time to go
    STYLING !................geo

    BTW: I will miss my 96 Deville which has
    served me well. Would of kept it another
    year but it needs those 2500 front struts
    and rear brake work and has 90k miles...
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