Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

blueguydotcom · August 2003

The keys to a good lease deal:

Negotiate the sale price of the car as low as possible - never say "I want xxx advertised deal." The sale price determines the payments.

Know the Money Factor the dealer is offering. Understand what that number means to your payments. Most people accept whatever MF is thrown out by the dealer (or never even know it). Get a MF you're comfortable with. To learn more about leases, I'd suggest visiting leaseguide.com as they have rock solid info and a great lease calculator.

Remember with a lease you want to put as little money down as possible. Once you put money into a lease, it's gone forever.

jtrujillo86 · August 2003

I think the folder/research thing is the way to go. But believe me, if they're not willing to give me what I owe on my car I WILL WALK AWAY IMMEDIATELY! I'll just say thanks and walk off. We did that when my sister was looking to trade her car in. She had 98 Eagle Talon TSi loaded with like 50k on it and they wanted to give her 3K for it and it was in awesome shape (that was at a Honda dealer btw). When we heard that I told her to get up, I said thanks, and we left. He followed us out trying to tell us some crap to get us back in, but we left. I think its the best way to get what you want for a trade.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Jeremy

markjenn · August 2003

The advice to "hold back" your trade until the last minute is often given, I'm not so sure it is good advice for every situation.

It is probably good advice if you don't mind selling your car privately. If they give you a low offer on the trade, you simply buy the new car for the price you've negotiated and sell your car privately.

But if you really need to do a trade in, or your state gives you sales tax credit for the trade (IOW, taxes the delta, not the full price of the new car), then you're over a barrel if they low-ball your trade. You either have to walk (if you can - they may have required you to at least initial a sales contract), or you have to take what they give you. If I was a car salesperson and had negotiated a cash price, I'd feel empowered to low-ball the trade, just because the buyer is already at least semi-committed at this point. I don't think this is good for the buyer.

My experience is that most dealers are within a few hundred dollars of one another on their best deal on the new car, but will vary by thousands on how they appraise a late-model trade in. This isn't surprising as there is tremendously more judgment involved in assessing the condition of a used car and the market for the car. So from the buyer's POV, what you really should be concerned with is negotiating the trade in value, not the new car price. Spending hours quibbling over few hundred dollars on the new car is stupid if the amount they will give you for the trade can vary by thousands.

When I didn't want to sell privately, I've always found it easy to do negotiations on the delta between the new car price and the trade value, including all fees except state fees (tax, title, license). It's a single number, you can easily develop a target price ahead of time, and then go in and work them towards that number. When they don't meet it, you get up and say you're going across town to see what the next dealer says about meeting your target price. This will usually extract a competitive offer.

It is academic whether the profit they make is from the new car or the trade. What matters to you is how much you pay for the difference, so why not negotiate for this?

Finally, I always try and be honest and upfront during car negotiations, if simply not to sink to the low level that most car salesman do. I don't volunteer extra information and I keep it cordial. To me, surprising the sales person with a trade at the last moment is deceptive unless you are completely prepared to buy the car for the agreed upon price without the trade.

- Mark

vocus · August 2003

I hate when the start asking how much you want the monthly payment to be. Every time, I always say 'as low as possible'. Totally makes them mad, but who cares. I am not there to make friends, I am there to get a good deal.

blueguydotcom · August 2003

hate when the start asking how much you want the monthly payment to be. Every time, I always say 'as low as possible'. Totally makes them mad, but who cares. I am not there to make friends, I am there to get a good deal.

Never tell them what you want to pay per month. Tell them you'll only discuss the sale price of the car. Every sales guy gets mad at me, but some insist on the 4 square. I always flip it over and say, "This is about selling the car, not payments."

bpeebles · August 2003

(markjenn) You are suggesting that one HAS to purchase a vehicle even if the trade-in is low-balled. That is LUDRICRUS. No one HAS to purchase a car.... as someone else has mentioned above it is simple to "WALK AWAY IMMEDIATELY!".

One always has the opertunity to come back another day... and even talk to different salesman. The bottom line is that THEY WANT TO SELL CARS!

In fact, savvy carbuyers will ALWAYS "walk away" at least once during the negotiations. It is imperative that you make it clear that they are not in control of the negotiations. Low-balling a trade-in should not be construed as a failure in the buyers end of the negotiations. It is just another way for the salesman to try to get the upper hand of the negotiations.

You are correct that if one is not prepared to hear what they are REALLY getting for their trade-in... then go ahead and let the salesman play "shell games" with your money. Just be aware that you have given up one of your strongest negotiation tactics. If one feels that saying "No trade in" is deceptive... then just be up front with the salesman and tell them that you wish to negotiate the purcahse price seperately from the trade-in.

I gladly took $300 for my last tradein.. I knew that $300 was reasonable. (I knew it needed at least $800 worth of parts and the bluebook valued it at about $1,000.)

tballpe · August 2003

I am ready to buy a new Jetta, which I plan to keep for at least 100,000 miles. I am interested in the extended warranty, (VW's Real Driver product). Although the dealer has offerred a great price on the purchase of the car, it feels as though he is not as generous with the price of the warranty, which is $1700 for zero deduct, or $1500 for $100 deduct. I know I can purchase similar coverage from a third party for about $1000. What is the "wholesale" price that I should expect as a negotiation target for the VW plan?

ruking1 · August 2003

An important question is whether or not your extended warranty covers the 100,000 mile (TDI) anyway timing belt change and/or the consequence of belt failure.

markjenn · August 2003

Well, on every car deal negotiation I've been in has involved, when you're getting down to the final price near their absolute lowest, they will want a least a verbal committment that you'll buy the car. (You can try the approach of "I'm collecting offers but am not committing", but in my experience, you never get their lowest offer this way.)

Call me old fashioned, but if I'm negotiating in good faith and I say, "Yes, I'll buy the car for $X," I feel like I've made a committment. To, at the end, suddenly say, "Well, I'd like to bring this trade in into the deal and unless you give me a great price on it too, then I'm walking" seems to be to be exactly the same as simply walking out after you've agreed to a cash deal.

If the dealer says, "I'll sell you a car for $X", then I expect them to do this, not wait until I've said yes, then come back and say, "Well since you've agreed to this price, we know what you'll pay, so now we want a few hundred more or require you buy these add-ons.". I guess I just come from the old school that says one's word in a negotiation is worth something.

And I still can't figure out how negotiating on one price, agreeing to it, and then re-starting a 2nd negotiation on the delta price makes any sense. It's like you are throwing away one negotiation and just starting over from scratch again. Why not keep it simple and negotiate one delta price to start with?

Again, if you are willing to separate the deal and sell your car privately, then doing two deals all makes sense because you want the separate cash deal so you can make a decision on the trade independently. But to separate them into two negotiations when you're committed to trading does nothing but double the work of negotiation in my book.

- Mark

vocus · August 2003

I had an extended warranty on my Jetta, but of course I cancelled it when the car was totalled. Anyway, I think it came from WarrantyDirect. It was 5 years/100K and $1200 I think. Tell them you are a member of the VW Club, it counts for a discount from what the phone operator told me.

mfarissier · August 2003

I was surprised when my dealer told me a routine brake job was $1,000. He said they do not cut rotors anymore, just replace them. Anyone have experience with brakes, how about non VW repair places?

Thanks
Mike

ruking1 · August 2003

Total parts cost: app 195. That leaves 1000-195= $805.

(Let's see 40 dollars for rear rotors, 30 dollars for rear brake pads, 80 dollars for front rotors and 45 dollars for front brake pads)
If you do a brake bleed add 5 dollars for Valvoline Synpower DOT 3/4 brake fluid.

markjenn · August 2003

$1000 is high, but not outrageously so for complete OEM replacement for all four wheels with new rotors. That's more a MB price than a VW price.

If you start pricing new OEM parts, you'll probably be looking at around $300-$450 depending on if you just belly up to the parts counter at the local VW dealer vs. getting a good deal on the net. There are cheaper aftermarket alternatives, of course. Add in their labor, tax, misc charges, etc. and you can get to $1000. But I'd bet a little shopping would net a quality job with all new parts for $600 or less.

Dealers are starting to go the "always new rotor" route - rotors are thinner and softer on new cars, rotor replacement is easy and high profit, they don't have to wait for the rotors to be cut, and they get fewer customer complaints. But, I think it is going a little overboard. If I was doing the job myself, I'd probably replace them every other time. If I was using an indepedent shop, I'd look for one that uses some judgment.

- Mark

adg44 · August 2003

As are most German cars. They don't have enough meat to be cut like a lot of japanese cars, so they are replaced. That's ok though, because the rotors are very inexpensive.

I did full brakes on my Sisters 2000 NB 2.0L for I think under $150 bucks.

Go to www.germanautoparts.com and get the ATE rotors (VW rotors are ATE) and ATE pads (also VW OEM) and it'll be much less than through the parts department.

- Anthony

vocus · August 2003

I would recommend getting different pads than VW stock, as they are soft as crap and have to be replaced about every 30K or so, from my experience (the rears anyway).

ruking1 · August 2003

I would also probably agree. I bought Mintex Red after market, waiting for that inevitable time..

The other issue is the 2003 Jetta is supposed to have the new improved brake pads. I have had so much heads up, from this and other web sites, that for me it "remains to be seen" if the new and improved pads last much longer than the pre 2003 brake pads and by how much. As a rule, I am pretty light on brakes, so a red flag for me will be the pads wearing out between 25,000-50,000 miles.

The upshot is the NEW part number SHOULD be different from the OLD part number. There should be a TSB to direct folks to order the new part number, but I am not aware of ANY TSB listing the new vs old part number. What you DO NOT want to happen, is to order the old part number that is "too soft" or wears out from 12,000-25,000 miles.That would merely confine you to the SOS DD. So if you wish to stick with OEM brake pads, make sure your parts' vendor can verify this.

hoodornament · August 2003

Ive been reading the brake discussion recently and wondering what is "normal" as far as life of brakes are concerned. I have owned 5 cars in my life, and can say that I have never had to replace brakes (pads or rotors) on any of them (longest owned car was 90k miles) ...
Have 34k miles on my Passat , no sign of trouble knock on wood.
Thanks
HO

bpeebles · August 2003

(hoodornament) The easy answer is "Some folks are MUCH harder on brakes than other folks." Driving habits can greatly affect brake-life as well as MPG, suspension parts and other items.

From the point of view of brake life. A manual tranny is significantly easier on the brakepads as compared to automatic xmission. This, coupled with what I call heads-up driving tequnique, can really make a difference.

*)Let off the accellerator WAYY ahead of time and allow vehicle to slow before applying brakes.
*) Look ahead and be aware of red-lights or other reasons to use the brakes.... then stay off the throttle. (Why hurry-up just to come to a stop?)
*)Obvserve the 1second -per- 10MPH rule for following-distance. (dont need to 'feather' the brakes every time somone slows down in front of you)

Using the above driving teqniques, one rarly has to use the brakes except when coming to a complete stop. As a side benifet... the above will also improve MPGs!

I get over 50K miles on front pads.
I get over 60K miles on rear brakes. (Rear brakes often outlast 2X the Fronts.)

In fact... I find my rotors will RUST before the pads wear out.

hoodornament · August 2003

Thanks for the reply, and your points are right on the mark ..my driving habits are identical to what you suggest, must be something to your theories huh?

and I do have a 5 speed manual.

mba3boiz · August 2003

I am considering buying a 1995 Jetta for my sons to drive.I don't know alot about them and are wondering if 1995 was a good year for Jetta's and if there are any "red flags" I should be looking for in this year. By the way, I am buying it from a dealer for around $3900.00. It has around 101,000 miles on it. I just would like to know if it is a car that I will have to sink a lot of money into. Thanks!

mvaldivi · August 2003

Could someone please let me know which of the Jetta engines are free-running engines. I hope not all of them are "interference" engines. Please advise. Thanks!

fish8 · August 2003

I wish I could help you, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

fish8 · August 2003

Can anyone tell me when photos will be released of the new Jetta V?

venus537 · August 2003

i'll settle for interior pictures of the next gen golf...

bpeebles · August 2003

(mvaldivi) All are "interference" engines.

It is VERY rare to find a "non-interference" engine these days. The engineering designs that try to squeeze every bit of power out of the fuel usually end up being an "interference" design.

This, in itself, is not a big issue unless one does not maintain the timing belt approprately.

For those folks that ignore their timing-belt... the engine can become a mass of twisted steel in a hurry.

I receintly saw some photos of what happens when a timing-belt is installed one-tooth off. (timing incorrect)

*) The top of every piston was marred by a valve (needed 4 new pistons)
*) most of the valves were scrap metal (needed an entire valve-job)
*)the head was damaged by a valve that had broken off and was pounded by the piston into the head.

TIME FOR A NEW ENGINE!

... AND THIS WAS FROM DRIVING GENTLY DOWN THE STREET FOR LESS THAN 5 MINUTES AFTER REPLACING THE TIMING-BELT (incorrectly)

Imagine what damage can be accomplished if a timing-belt snaps at 65MPH?

bpeebles · August 2003

There is a website with the photos... just do some research... you should find them.

fish8 · August 2003

"official" photos?

bpeebles · August 2003

Since there are 2004s on the docks in NorthAmerica... I would think that the photos are not just designer drawings.

As for being "official" drawings released by VW.... does it really matter if VW has 'approved' the release of the photos?

fish8 · August 2003

I am talking about the new redesigned 2005 Jetta. That car is not sitting on the docks in North America. I know VW has released photos of the Gen V Golf, But I thought I remember hearing that the new '05 Jetta will be revealed this fall at one of the north american auto shows. The '04 model is the same design as the '99.5 model.

As far as your comment on the "official" drawings....yes, it does matter. As you know there are always unofficial renderings of supposed designs. But, until VW releases actual photos, I can't believe everything I see.

bpeebles · August 2003

I understood that the new TDI engine is in the 2004s. I thought that the new TDI engine was in the new genV Jettas. I guess this is not the case.

Just the new "pump-Duse" TDI engine in 2004.... same ol' bodystyle. (More power with >50 MPG... isn't technology wonderful?)

Am I missing somthing here? Dont tell me that all the folks that held-off buying a 2003 to get the new TDI engine will be dissapointed.

justin · August 2003

of the Gen 5 Golf interior. you can bet the Jetta will look the same.

fish8 · August 2003

I agree about the Jetta being similiar to the Golf interior. So far, I like what I see with the Golf V design.

flaca · August 2003

Does anyone know the lease factor and residual value for a new 2003 GLS 2.0L, monsoon and leather?Thanks

mvaldivi · August 2003

I just asked a VW salesman on whether the ESP was a dealer or factory installed option. He promised to find that out for me, but it's been a week and I haven't gotten any answer yet. Does anyone here knows? Thanks very much!

blueguydotcom · August 2003

There's no way in hades the inept guys at the dealership could install ESP. It's not like they're slapping in a 6 disc changer. ESP controls the brakes, engine and pays attention to slippage, yaw, etc.

mochalatte · August 2003

Hello all,

I'm looking at a used 2000 Jetta GLX with a high mileage on it (80k). I've had the car checked by a mechanic, and he said that overall the car is in good condition.

So, I guess my questions are:
- Is this a good buy? Yes, I've been reading all the bad reviews/complaints about Jetta, but would it be fair to assume that whatever previous kinks have been worked out (hence, the good score from the mechanic)? Or, should I run to the hills?

- If I am to buy the Jetta, what would be the fair price for the car? And, would I have a hard time finding a buyer if I'm to sell the car 2-3 years down the road?
- Should I get the extended warranty? Not many sites provides extended warranty for a high mileage car, and for the one that does, it seems that the quote was pretty high, 2-3k for around 2 years/24k miles.

I'll appreciate any advice. Thanks!

prodigalsun · August 2003

It depends. What are you paying for the GLX?

Jetta's are crappy on the reliability, and if memory serves the 6 cylindars are especially problematic for that year.

Have to be a pretty darn good deal to make me go for it.

Post the car with the exact mileage, color, city you live in and all options it possesses in Real World Trade in Values and Terry will tell you how much is reasonable to get the vehicle for.

mochalatte · August 2003

Thanks for the tips.

I just posted a message in that thread. The owner is offering a price around the kbb and edmunds TMV for the trade in value, so I guess that's pretty reasonable.

My concern is whether I'd encounter lots of repairs in the future, or whether I could safely assume that major kinks have been worked out during the 80k break-in time

steven39 · September 2003

hi folks, iam deciding between either a 2003 golf gls or a jetta gls both with 2.0 engine
and auto. i also have compared other cars such as the accord, civic, and elantra gt
among many others. the golf and jetta simply have more features for the buck than anything else in their class.the golf gls i looked at sunday had standard anti-lock 4 wheel disk brakes, 10 air bags, sunroof, great warranty, and the clincher for me is the 8 speaker cd-cassette monsoon stereo system. this is the best sounding stereo i have in all the cars i have looked at. in fact so much so that i found my self listening to it at the dealerships lot in one of the golf gls they had that was not locked so i just listened to the music until the place opened.also compared to other cars the golf is way cheaper to insure than anything else i have looked at which is very important to me cuz my driveing record is not the best. anyway, my question is this.
are there still problems with the 2003 golf-jetta as far as the windows falling down into the doors and the oil consumption problems regarding the 2.0 engine in the golf. have they worked these things out or are they still haveing these problems for the 2003 model cars. thanx steve

vocus · September 2003

I am pretty sure they worked out the window problems with stronger parts. Only time will tell though about this, as well as the 2.0 oil consumption problem. Some people on this board have 2.0 2002 models and haven't had problems, so they might be ok now.

I would pick the Golf over the Jetta for its lower price and ability to better handle cargo than the Jetta can. Also, you see less Golfs on the road, you will 'see yourself' less on the road with a Golf vs. a Jetta (at least it's that way here in MD).

prodigalsun · September 2003

VeeDubs are notorious for having electrical issues, and I've read numerous feedback from folks on the consumer review section regarding power window motor failures numerous times. I had seriously considered going for a GLX or a GLI for my next vehicle, but as I dug into the info on the car, it turned me away. Consumer reports has put the Jetta on it's list of cars it recommmends not to buy. I had a 90 GTI for many years, fun to drive, but it was in the shop a lot.

I've settled myself on getting a 2000 Nissan Maxima SE 5speed. Bigger, almost as much fun to drive as the GLX, and the number one rated car for reliability by consumer reports.

So, I'd think seriously about finding something with lower miles. I think you'll keep your blood pressure down, considering all those double shot no foam half caf mocha latte's you're swilling down!

fish8 · September 2003

10 airbags? I have a 2002 and have 6 airbags.

fish8 · September 2003

Well, I brought my jetta into the Dealer this morning for an oil change, tire rotate and balance. Also, I had the dealer look into the dash buzz/rattle near the center vent on my dash. He called me back about 15 minutes ago and said the tech stated that the buzz/rattle was normal for a Jetta....it was the "release valve". I asked what that was and he stated that it was a valve that released some sort of gas or pressure??????? Is he making this up or is that a real "valve"? I asked him to see if they can muffle it and he said he would ask the shop forman. Also, I asked them to look at the buzz that is coming from the driver side rear door lock. They said they could not duplicate. I asked if they could at least reprogram the locks so they dont automatically lock at a certain speed(since the buzz only occurs when they are in the locked position. The service adivisor said that was not possible. I said I read in the Jetta pamphlet that you could re-program them.

Any thoughts???

adg44 · September 2003

A lot of Jettas have a dash rattle by the center vents. I know mine did sometimes. I highly doubt it's a "release valve".

You can reprogram the doors not to lock with a 1552 (VAG) - all dealers have them.

But a word to the wise, I wouldn't have the dealer be messing around with my car for rattles that will most likely go away in a little bit, because most likely they are going to mess it up more.

And you will then get more pissed at your car cause they won't beable to fix it and you'll keep taking it back, and it just kills the overall experience.

Just my two cents.

steven39 · September 2003

hi folks, since the golf is made in brazil would that make it a more reliable car, since alot of the jettas that have problems being made in mexico. iam considering either car and was wondering if they are still haveing problems with the windows falling into the doors and the oil consumption problems with the 2.0 engine for the 2003 model year.

venus537 · September 2003

very well said about the rattle situation. i couldn't agree more. be patient with rattles in a new car, they'll most likely will go away over time. just like a new house settling.

fish8 · September 2003

I have tried to be patient with the dash rattle. But, it seems to be getting worse and therefore I figured it would be easier to diagnose now. I guess I was wrong. Whne the rattle gets so bad that I have to turn up the radio to drown out the noise I know it is pretty bad. I am expecting a call from the dealer today and I will see what they say. They had to order a part for the passenger seat to stop the seat from rocking.

I am currently in a 2003 Jetta GLS and it actually has rattles as well. It has my lock rattle in the rear door. I guess Jettas are rattle prone. Is the suspension set up different between my GL and GLS? The GLS seems a little more firm.

mochalatte · September 2003

I finally took the plunge and bought the Jetta

Yes, I am aware of the crappy reliability, but I figure I'll take some chances. If it proves to be too much trouble, I'll sell it and buy a Japanese car.

But for now, I want to try a bit of that German experience

fish8 · September 2003

Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy your new car!!

mochalatte · September 2003

Hi,

I just bought a used 2000 Jetta GLX, and would like to ask for advise on a couple of things:

- The airbag light is on in the dash. The previous owner said that it has been on for the last 8 months, she's taken it to the dealership, and they said that it's not a big deal.
Should I worry about this? It is a bit disconcerting driving around with that "Airbag Fault" message flashing

- The car is out of warranty. Is it worth it to get an extended warranty for the car? It has a high mileage, around 80k, so the warranty cost is a bit higher.

Thanks!

Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

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