Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

vocus · August 2002

Justin: Just because someone got rid of their used Jetta doesn't necessarily mean that they abused it or it was junk. Maybe they got tired of the car and traded it in. Besides, if the car is checked out correctly, the buyer would find out if the car is junk or not.

Anonymous: I agree about the Elantra GT. It's a much better car than the Accent is, for only a little more money. I have had a rental Accent though, a 2000 model. It wasn't a bad car actually. It didn't have alot of power, but it was pretty comfortable and nicely put together though.

mdaffron · August 2002

... bought your cars without ever test-driving them?!

I don't care if they had to ship the darned thing from the Fatherland itself -- I'd sure as heck test-drive it before I signed anything!

Meade

vocus · August 2002

It seems that us that have had problems don't start having problems until the car has 500 or more miles on it. No amount of test driving would bring those characteristics out.

mdaffron · August 2002

All I'm saying is, you should never, EVER accept something that costs so much without taking 'er around the block!

Would you buy a house without ever stepping inside?

Meade

vocus · August 2002

I know what you mean. You also have 72 hours (here in MD anyway) to take back the car if there are problems with it, or if you change your mind on buying it. Even if the problems I had would have started within that time, I would have taken the car back, but they did not.

I did drive a 1.8T Jetta, but it just wasn't the exact one I bought.

meinrad · August 2002

Drove the same model, (well not really, drove an auto, bought a stick), 3 months before my purchase. When it was time to buy, just dealed on the net, went in and signed papers, then drove it out of the showroom.........got lucky I guess.

blueguydotcom · August 2002

>>I did drive a 1.8T Jetta, but it just wasn't the exact one I bought. <<

Then you didn't drive your car! That's just odd. As Meade said, would you buy a house without going into it first?

Same model does not mean it's the same car. You and Justin have ostensibly the same car but his is perfect and yours isn't.

shark13 · August 2002

does anyone have info on the 2003, when they'll come out with the new interior / cupholder etc? it didn't mention it in edmunds rewiew and another source only said "later in the model year." any pics out there?

vocus · August 2002

If you look on http://www.vwvortex.com it will tell you about the new changes.

The ones I remember are that the GL model will now be available with the 1.8T, the GLS will come standard with a sunroof, Cool White will no longer be offered as an available color, ESP will become a line-wide option, and another shade of Green will come out as well as some shade of Grey. That's all I remember though, sorry.

vocus · August 2002

Gee, thanks for reminding me of that.

I guess I should have driven MY car before taking delivery. But like I said, it would not have made me avoid any of the problems I went through with it. They didn't start until after 1000 miles, when it was too late to do anything about it.

venus537 · August 2002

"The Jetta is a much better car than the Focus and Hyundai. It drives and feels like a much more expensive car actually. So it might be worth the risk for you"

you're stating the obvious. You mentioned a hyundai and jetta in the same breath, what the hell is wrong with you?

justin · August 2002

the only small cars that I would absolutely forbid my own mom or another loved one to buy would probably be any Mitsu or Dodge/Chrsyler. they have okay performance, but so does Hyundai/honda/toyota/kia/ford/VW, etc.

most of these small cars are fine. but the Mitsu and Neon all seem to have bad crash test results, which, in a small car, is unforgivable.

lochlyn_deck · August 2002

I'm looking at a GLS TDI. Was wondering (specifically from TDI owners) if the Cold Weather Package was really something that I NEEDED on the car. I have read that the TDI will not really warm until driven. And I figured that the heated wiper nozzles might help an icy windshield clear faster. Any thoughts? I'm looking at a limited number of remaining 2002's so if you're going to respond, the sooner the better. Thanks.

venus537 · August 2002

i think it's worth the money (then again i live in wisconsin). but it's not a deal breaker though.

Anakin · August 2002

those heated seats are real nice. my wife loves them.

donnabgood · August 2002

Hi everyone, I have been enjoying catching up and reading all of your posts on your driving impressions of the Jetta. I agree, I love the car too! This is my 3rd VW, having had a '74 bug back in the early '80's, a brand new GTI (a favorite) in 92, a Rodeo SUV in 95, a 99 Cougar and a 94 MarkVIII (fast, powerful car and addicts you to speed and power afterwards) thus my leasing of 2002 Jetta, 1.8t. It's licorice(my description) black, with beige leather, winter package (best 150 ever spent to get heated seats), luxury package, moonroof,tiptrronic, has everything except sports suspension. I proably would've gotten it, but beleive it or not the dealer seem to be giving me such a good deal on the car I wanted I didn't want to hassle him anymore about switching the tires. I notice many of you brag about what you paid, below invoice, but since I imagine invoice can vary I am curious if you don't mind sharing real world figures of what it cost. My car had 11 miles when I leased it for 1128 down, 287.50 (pre-tax) for 36 months, at 12k per year, with a residual of 13608.75.Gross Captialized cost 21998.44 on a MSRP of 23875.00 I live in Southern CA btw. Since I went first and revealed all the details about my car buying experience, who will go next and do the same?

Donna

vocus · August 2002

This is the first car I ever had that has heated seats (1.8T 2002 Jetta w/every option). I love them! It's nice to get in the car in the winter and not be cold. You can turn on the heated seat and warm your body before the heater warms up (although it's pretty quick as well). Definitely a nice feature to have. And mine was included in the $1050 Leather Pkg. (along with the multi function steering wheel that I like as well).

blackjetta18t1 · August 2002

I've been away for quite sometime and really don't want to read through 1200 posts, so what ever did happen with your car?

vocus · August 2002

You had to ask, didn't you?

Well I got the thing fixed right finally. Of course, VW isn't going to buy it back. But it's cool now, since they finally got it right on the 10th try. I did ovrhear one of the service people at the dealer call me a "pain in the [non-permissible content removed]" though. I talked to VW and also made a formal complaint to the BBB auto line. VW paid one months' car payment for me, and the BBB never got back to me yet. So now you are caught up!

fish8 · August 2002

Ac couple of things: I had a '99 Cougar as well, what are your thoughts on that car.

My Jetta numbers: 2002 Jetta GL (Manual), Leased, $1000 down, $179 (Excludes tax), 36 month lease, 12K per year. I needed low payments, so this sufficed. When my lease is up, the new Jetta will be coming out and it will be interesting to see the new Jetta.

vocus · August 2002

As far as the "new" Cougar, I think the car was a flop. Production for 2002 will be the last year for it. I drove one back in 1999 when they came out. It felt closed in to me, and the seats were pretty uncomfortable as well.

My friend has a 1994 Cougar (before the change), and it's pretty good I think. It's a luxury type coupe (supposedly) though, so its handling and ride are pretty floaty and its power sucks. He has 60K on the car, bought new. Had alot of tranny trouble with it, it has gone through 2 sets of rotors on the front and one on the rear, and the engine now taps. So I wouldn't think it to be that durable.

moosecat · August 2002

>> Then you didn't drive your car! That's just odd. As Meade said, would you buy a house without going into it first?

Umm... People routinely buy new homes after looking only at a model home. Isn't that the same thing? I think manufacturing processes for cars are consistent enough that it is highly unlikely you will notice any substantial difference between two identical cars in a half-hour test drive.

(Incidentally, I test drove the exact car I bought, but only by chance ... I would have been fine with driving only the same model/engine/transmission. I was the first and only test driver too. It's kind of fun knowing that all but four of the miles on my car are mine.)

blueguydotcom · August 2002

>>Isn't that the same thing? I think manufacturing processes for cars are consistent enough that it is highly unlikely you will notice any substantial difference between two identical cars in a half-hour test drive.<<

Actually, even if you buy a track home you can still do a walk through and if you notice substantial differences from what you were promised then you can demand changes and/or back out.

As for differences between cars, I'd contend you can feel it pretty quickly. Maybe that's just me, but I can drive 4 or 5 of the same car (as I did with Jettas) and instantly point out how they felt different.

BTW, I was the first one to take my car up to speed, that's for certain. It rolled off the transport truck Friday night (short trip from Mexico), and Saturday morning I test drove it and bought it.

moosecat · August 2002

>> even if you buy a track home you can still do a walk through and if you notice substantial differences from what you were promised then you can demand changes and/or back out.

True. And if you order a car, take delivery, and notice "substantial differences from what you were promised," you can back out of it. You can back out of, or sue for breach of, any contract that is not substantially performed by the other party. (Yes, I am a lawyer.) But a car would either have to be something other than what you ordered or subject to the lemon law to rise to that level.

That fact, of course, counsels in favor of test driving the exact vehicle, which is what you're advocating. And if you think you can identify meaningful differences between particular units during short test drives, then more power to you: test drive the exact vehicle you're considering before buying it.

Ultimately, I guess I don't think I'm discerning enough to notice a difference -- or at least to trust that whatever I think I notice in my fifteen minutes in the driver's chair will in fact prove to be a continuing characteristic of the car.

justin · August 2002

every car is different, in many ways. what i like to do is test drive a car, and test drive it well. (meaning, redline it several times and do all of the other stuff that you would NEVER do to your own car during "break in" time) then, bring the car back and say i want another color. then test drive that car only as agressively as necessary to make sure it performs and is adjusted well enough. then i buy the one i babied

but you should test drive your car, and inspect it every inch. any paint issues? dirt on headliner? some cars even with the same stereo sound better and worse....

mdaffron · August 2002

"And if you order a car, take delivery, and notice 'substantial differences from what you were promised,' you can back out of it. You can back out of, or sue for breach of, any contract that is not substantially performed by the other party. (Yes, I am a lawyer.) But a car would either have to be something other than what you ordered or subject to the lemon law to rise to that level."

-- You wouldn't have to go through all that fuss if you'd just test-drive the car you're going to buy, eh? Do you also buy pants without trying them on first? A new stereo component without listening to it in the electronics store? Shoes without trying them on first? All of these things are cookie-cuttered on modern assembly lines too ...

Meade

meinrad · August 2002

vocus · August 2002

Alot of people who know their size do buy clothes and shoes without trying them on first. (I have done this before with clothes, but never shoes.) If they don't fit right, then you return them and get something that does fit right. But it's not that easy with a car though.

moosecat · August 2002

I'm really not sure what world you all live in, but YES -- MANY people buy pants without trying them on; MANY people buy stereo components based on reviews without listening beforehand; MANY people buy shoes online. How do you think Amazon.com stays in business?

What makes people feel confident enough to do these things? Because they have real-world experience with either the same product or very similar products. I can buy a pair of pants from J. Crew online -- without trying them on -- because I have "test driven" J. Crew pants before. I can buy a stereo component at Amazon.com because I trust reviews I have read or I have owned a piece of equipment from a particular company before.

(And just to be clear, I DEFINITELY believe that a purchaser should test drive his or her model/engine/transmission of choice. This debate is only about whether the precise car should be test driven.)

If a test drive were a week long, I'd be more likely to agree that we ought to take the precise car home. But 30 minutes (if you're taking your time) is such a random sampling of the characteristics of a particular car that I don't think it's worth anything. It gives you a taste of a car but little more. I believe that very few people here are able to know that whatever differences they find are results of individual differences in the cars, not the weather, or the fact that the tank is half-full, or the fact that someone put in regular gas instead of premium, etc...

If you are Mario Andretti and you make your living driving cars at the edge of their performance curves, then maybe you should drive the particular car. I don't think anyone in here is Mario Andretti. Contrary to the French Connection car chase fantasies running through many heads on this board -- very few, if any, people on this board are automotive connoisseurs able to draw meaningful distinctions between two identical Jettas based on a short test drive.

If you are one of that small group, I apologize -- have fun with all your test drives.

vocus · August 2002

You make a valid point. I have had some workmanship problems with my car (fixed now though), and these problems would not have been uncovered had I driven my particular car on a test drive. They took 1000 miles to show up. I drove the same engine/transmission combo though before buying. I actually drove all engine/transmission combinations (except 5-speed models, because I can't drive a stick yet). I drove the 1.8T, the VR6, and the TDI models. I chose the 1.8T, because I liked it the best.

mdaffron · August 2002

I'm one of the many millions of non-Amazon customers who prefers a "hands-on" approach to purchases -- especially large ones. I like to touch, feel, smell, taste, whatever -- before I buy. May seem like overkill to you, but I rarely visit a customer service desk or spend my own money on return shipping.

If you only buy one size of pants from one retailer, I can understand your point -- especially since you said you tried on that pair originally. But go try on a pair of, say, Dockers in one size and then a pair of Haggers in the same size and I almost guarantee you one will fit differently than the other.

"Pants vs. Cars" -- the latest Town Hall comparo discussoin, LOL!

Meade

8u6hfd · August 2002

yeah it's worth it. The diesel motor, is inherently more efficient with energy, with less enegy converted to heat. That's why it won't warm up if you let it idle for a few minutes, like you would in a gasoline motor.

The heated washer nozzles (works in conjunction with the rear defroster) takes about a minute or two to warm up. THough it works really nice.

The heated seats keeps your butt warm for the first few miles as the engine warms up. Drive gently though.

Even with the gas engine, it warms up faster as you drive it, gently, opposed to letting it idle.

justin · August 2002

who has to be Mario Andretti to appreciate the differences between one Jetta and another Jetta equipped the same way? Heck, I can notice the differences just by sitting in it - don't even have to drive it.

donnabgood · August 2002

The very best thing one can do before buying a new car is renting it for a few days, and see how you like it for a few days in day to day living. Not many do it though, because the outlay of 300 dollars or so seems alot when that money can be going to your down. I am lucky I suppose my Mark VIII was totaled by the the insurance company, so I had a month of test driving cars I was interested in. Ruled out SUV because of their very bumpy ride, and hard for my mom to get in out of the car. Ruled out the PT because of lack of power and all the attention from teenagers every stoplight, ruled out a 4 cylinder completely because of the lack of power and not feeling it safe enough with merging or passing. I did not rent the Jetta 1.8t but after finding out all the things I didn't like and seeing that the turbo did not have those problems I leased it. Have not has even a second of buyer's remorse.

I have had friends who buy cool cars like the Mustang GT and Land Rover Discovery after driving it around for a few months they miss the comforts of other cars and sell the car losing 5k just months later. Not that the car is bad, just not for them. That said, I agree. I would never finance a used car again, referring to other posts about by a year old car with low mileage..makes more sense to lease to me, have lower payments, and enjoy the car during the best years of it's life, plus get all the perks of being an orginial owner. Believe me, I think it is unlikely Vocous would've had a car payment made by VW if he was the second owner even if all the other dynamic were the same. It's the difference between being biological parents as opposed to foster parents.. you just have more rights. lol.

And you're right 2002 is the last year for the new Cougar which is too bad. It had a lot of style for the money. I bought the car in 99 new for 19.5 (V6) and sold it a year and half later for 10K and still had to write a check for 2500 to get out of it completely. For whatever reason American cars take huge hits in deprecation. I personally do not think it is about quality, all new cars are better with technology and safety features than even the most expensive cars from the 80's..I think it is just the American way to buy low and sell high, and American car dealerships have always made more money on trade-ins then in selling it new. Forgein cars take the profit up front, and therefore don't have to hit you so hard when you trade it in.

Ha, ha the first thing I did when I drove the Jetta off the lot was redline it. It was mine, and while I baby my cars generally, nothing beats the feeling of knowing it is yours and you can test it's limits without someone showing you the little visor above the rear view mirror as a selling feature. lol.

jsstover · August 2002

Hi all. I just got back from getting my $59 oil change and tire rotation. Driving back I realized that my tin of Altoids was gone from my cubby below my radio (2000). I searched the car top to bottom and could not find them. They were obviously stolen.

Okay, before you flame away, I called and asked if anyone had turned it in. They said "no, sorry." and started to hang up. I then stated to them that I was trying to be unaccusatory, but a tin of mints does not grow legs and walk away. They said they would have my service advisor call me and hung up.

Now I understand that this is a $2.00 tin of mints and in the scope of the world, big deal. But, it was my tin of mints. If they wanted some I would have shared. In my mind, it is pure and simple theft. Then they have the audacity to charge me $59 for an oil change and tire rotation. Am I missing something? Should I be P.O.'d? Comments suggestions?

moosecat · August 2002

Of course you should be pissed ... Who cares if it was $2 at stake. I've heard so many stories like yours that I think we should let nothing like that slip by.

I have a friend who took his Honda Accord in for some service. When he got it back, someone had removed all the SILVER change (non-pennies) from his coin holder cubby. They actually sorted through the change to take only the more valuable coins. He put up some kind of big fight and they did something for him, although I don't know what.

vocus · August 2002

I would have been mad as well. It's not the price of the mints that's the thing. It's the point that, not only did they rip you off for what you had done (dealer prices are always higher than a mechanic's), they stole from you. That's not right. I would be pissed as well.

8u6hfd · August 2002

$59 for an oil change, is it with the Castrol Syntec oil? It it wasn't and used say, Castrol GTX, then be pissed.

justin (huh?), reference message #7116, someone wanted a TDI owner to respond....sine I drive a TDI with the cold weather package, I confirmed the notion that the engine doesn't really warm up until it's driven

anonymous02 · August 2002

"...Then they have the audacity to charge me $59 for an oil change and tire rotation. Am I missing something? Should I be P.O.'d? Comments suggestions?"

Sounds like your were robbed twice in that visit.

Why not change your oil yourself?

anonymous02 · August 2002

leave aspirin in your altoids box!

justin · August 2002

you lost me. i never posted, nor responded, to anything of yours, did i?

about this mints being stolen thing - why does the poster think he would get "flamed" for posting that?

i am really lost. are their deleted posts, mr host?

pat · August 2002

8u6hfd · August 2002

I thought the huh was directed towards me. Sorry

mdaffron · August 2002

Be glad it was only a tin of mints -- not that that's acceptable.

I stopped at a local Car Pool carwash (upscale and has several locations around town here -- even the local police get their cars washed & detailed there) -- about four years ago to get my wife's Cavalier washed. It was a cold Saturday and I was wearing sweats with no pockets, and I had my pager from work with me. Instead of carrying it with me when I got out to have the car vacuumed, I hid it way up under the lower dash in a little pocket the Cavalier had for CDs and stuff. You couldn't see down that deep without crouching down and peering in the cubby. Well, do I need to say what happened? The second I got back in the car, I reached for my pager. It was gone. I went inside and asked to borrow their phone, and I called 911. I had a cop there within 10 minutes. He interviewed all the snot-nosed, pants-around-their-thighs teenagers who vacuumed the cars, and no one admitted to taking it. Bottom line, I had to go back to work and admit my pager was stolen. It was never recovered.

I have not returned to that car wash in four years and I don't plan to return to it again. I made a point of telling the manager that he was losing a three-year, at least once-a-month customer. He was really pissed at his employees, and as I left in disgust he was calling everyone into his office for a little meeting. If I were you, I'd call your dealership's general manager and tell him what happened, and then I'd tell him he was not only losing your service, but also any future consideration for new vehicles -- along with that of as many friends and strangers you can tell about this. I hope they sell several lines of vehicles and are well-known in the area. You might even consider calling your Better Business Bureau about this. Some might say a tin of mints ain't that big a thing -- but if they've got an employee there with sticky fingers, he could take anything small -- cell phones, pagers, sunglasses (mine are $200 prescription ones), etc. And the more he gets away with, the more confident he'll get in skimming more stuff.

Meade

vocus · August 2002

Jettas now have the $1200 dealer cash (which most will pass on to the customer), so if you are in the market, now is a great time.

Also, the prices for the 2003s has been released on http://www.CarsDirect.com. I priced a 2003 with the ESP option being the only difference between my 2002 and it (Sport Pkg., Leather Pkg., Tiptronic, Monsoon), and the MSRP price for the 2003 was LESS, even with the ESP! Guess I should have waited.

jsstover · August 2002

Well we got the mints resolved. They "fell" out of the dash and they forgot to put them back. Whatever.

As far as changing the oil myself, tried that but the yahoos cranked the oil plug and filter on so tight that I had to get a 4' braker bar to get enough leverage to loosen the plug. Drained the oil then went to change the filter. Ended up twisting it like a candy cane. More trouble than its worth after all that and trying to dispose of the oil.

Solved that problem though. We traded it in and bought a Jetta GLS TDi.

vocus · August 2002

I took my car in once to the VW dealer. When I got it back, the gum I had in the middle armrest storage area was gone. I was really mad! It's not the fact that they took the gum (it was only $.25 for the pack), but it's the thing that they took something that was mine.

mdaffron · August 2002

I thought you weren't ever going to buy another VW product ...?

Meade

vocus · August 2002

Who said I was buying another one? I just said I calculated the prices of the car on CarsDirect.com.

vocus · August 2002

On the GLS 1.8T wagon, the option of a Luxury Package is available. It includes the Climatronic, wood trim, leather seats, and other things. Interesting to see some of the GLX only options kinda working their way down the line, so to speak.

Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

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