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Saab 9-5 Sedan

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Comments

  • rickpctrickpct Member Posts: 71
    are known for less than stellar wet and certainly poor snow perormance - depending upon snow conditions. there are better choices - Bridgestone, Dunlop, etc. I've heard less than spectacular performance on the Pirelli's...6000 in particular,
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The Town Hall is about to take on a new look in an effort to make content more easily searchable and accessible.

    Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.

    And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • apricoaprico Member Posts: 1
    I'm new to this discussion. We recently purchased a 99 9-5 with 47,000 miles. We have until 50K to sign up for an extended warranty (4 years 50K more miles). Have any of you had experiences with extended warranties? What have your repair expenses averaged per year once your manufacturer warranty expired? Any thoughts and information would be appreciated.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    Can anyone tell me what changes (even if minor) are planned for the 2003 Saab 9-5? I'm currently looking at the BMW 330 and the MB C320 and have always liked the look of Saabs (though I've certainly never heard anyone sing the praises of Saab reliability, so I have some reservations). Also will Navigation be made available on the 9-5? (I know it will be in the new 2003 9-3).
    Thanks!
  • smu1976smu1976 Member Posts: 110
    I do not know for sure, but I believe the 2003 9-5 has got to have a new dash? The new 9-3 looks way better than the 9-5 . I think the cassette is going bye-bye with Saab, at least the new 9-3 does not show one. I really love having the CD and Cassette in dash on my 99 9-5. I'm sure a navigation system has to be coming to the 9-5 as the 9-3 will have one (option $$). The 9-5 is a much larger car both inside and out than the BMW. Plus for the same price your going to get a ton more options. The MB has some fit and finish problems noted in the auto press, and is not near as tight as other MB models. I am looking at that new G35 also, for mid thirties its a lot of car. Both BMW and MB will probably give you better resale though. Best of luck to you, heck choosing a car is half the fun in my book.
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    Let me add my voice to get anyone out there with valid info on 2003 changes to sound off please???? Dash look was one of my major put-offs for 2002 version.
  • eseireseir Member Posts: 26
    I looked at every single car in the price range of the 9-5 and honestly I could not find anything that matched the performance, confort, and overall feel of the 9-5. All the other cars were great. Some where faster, some were smaller, but overall the 9-5 offers a little bid of everything plus... Initially the dash (wood!) was a little weird, but it is grown on me and if that is all that it is, I can live with it. Actually, the only thing tthat I wish it had was an in-dash 6 cd changer. As far as a NAV, I always thoughtthat this is a waste of money and yes-useless.
  • rghesselrghessel Member Posts: 122
    Actually, I always thought Navigation was a waste of money and useless until I got it. (I currently have a Lexus RX300 with it.) While I dont fault anyone who doesn't want to pay the $$ for it, I personally won't consider a car without it... Even though I don't do any long-distance traveling, I have found it invaluable getting around Chicago...to new restaurants or stores or wherever. No more priting out MapQuest directions to get to unfamilar places...
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    I was amazed at how improved the current '02 version is over the previous. We had the first year model. This one's drive, ride and feel is much improved. The last one was great so that says alot. I don't believe there are any major changes scheduled for the next year. There were siginficant changes for this year, just not ones that you'll notice visually.

    I can understand some people wanting a Nav System. I'd like one for my work vehicle. But I do like the On-Star System. The phone feature is Awesome but I'll welcome the day when they offer more competitive rates and a portable phone connection feature like BMW has. Everyone has a portable now, why do we want two phone numbers and two bills? A small connection fee to the equipment with a portable phone would be perfect. I'd switch my provider to On-Star's and pay a small fee for plugging in. I'd bet that allowing that would double their revenue for the phone part of On-Star. Technically we could connect our phones to the electronics and use the hands free system now but On-Star doesnt want it done because of revenue and licensing. They probably could stop us legally from connecting our phones even though it can be done.

    At first I hated the New Wood Dash on the 9-5. But I quickly learned to apreciate it and actually prefer it over our previous one now. I'm glad they changed it.

    The new upcoming 9-3 does look impressive. If I were shopping in your catagory (3-series and C-class) I'd wait for the the 9-3 not for a redesigned 9-5. I saw the sales brochure for the new 9-3 at the dealer last week. I was VERY impressed. That car is going to have a TON of features that will leap frog it over it's competitors. Currently it's lagging.

    Good Luck
    Drew
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    Well, I can almost understand folks thinking navigation systems are a waste of money and had same opinion until we bought an MDX last summer with nav option in it. It's convinced me to look very favorably on it. We take the MDX anytime we are headed someplace unfamiliar and its never failed us.

    And its not about not reading maps, as a retired Armored Cavalry officer I've read maps for over 26 years of service and can easily read a road map and still use one myself in my GS300 since it is "nav-less".

    My spouse and kids rely on it daily and it is a blast to use when we find we need to detour due to road construction or just find a little known place to eat or even to let them go shopping around time. We live in Austin, TX and it's great here with the screwed up road network the city has developed here. Only issue is with all the new changes and development due to expansion not all roads on the DVD, but the paper maps are outdated too!

    My wife took a load of kids from vacation bible school to a service project on Friday and used the nav to recover the way after the leader got lost in her car. One rider was very jealous as her mom has a "fancy Cadillac with everything" so she said but she really wished her mom had a navigation system in it - "it was way cool" per the 10 year old's in the car.

    As for Mapquest, our Nav is much more reliable from when I compared it for trips. Plus we've used the "cookie" feature a few times during Boy Scout camping trips to several state parks.

    I've come to love the Acura system and will strongly consider nav system's for all my future car purchases.
  • eseireseir Member Posts: 26
    is really enough for me. Also as far as changes for next year, the 2002 moidel has a lot of improvements vs past models. The car is truly awesome! IKeep in mind that this car is already in the fourth year of production so a lot of the new year headaches has been taking out of the car. This car should be very reliable and very durable. Perhaps a new feature will be the NAV or the in dash 6 cd, which will be a welcome change for those who want it. I know that the new 9-3 looks and sonds great. But, I do not like to buy new models in their first year of production. No way!
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    Yeah I can understand that thought but.. both my first two Saabs were first year versions. The '94 900 and 98'9-5. The 900 was headed towards problems I think but really was a good car for us. The 9-5 was soo good that we had to replace it with another. But, like I said, this 2002 version is truely a better car than the first model year in most respects.

    I probably wouldn't shy away too much from the first year of the new 9-3 but maybe I'm braver than the average car buyer out there. Actually my last four car purchased were First Model versions. Hmm, I just thought of that. The only one I didn't like was the '98 Durango.

    Drew
  • darandalldarandall Member Posts: 57
    Today I go to pick up a new 9-5 Linear wagon with 5 spd. and premium package. I turn in the old 9-5 wagon in awe of the new suspension - it is a different car. The new dash is weird at first, but I'm sure it will be fine. the contrast with the charcoal interior is offputtting, but I'm getting the beige so it should be fine. Saab did continue the lease special through the end of June - I got the wagon, metallic paint, delivery charge, and premium package net for $31677, plus they pay last month's lease on current vehicle. Monthly payments are $382 plus tax, and the residual is $16870. I pay roughly $30/mo. in interest for the first three years. What a deal. What a great car!
  • eseireseir Member Posts: 26
    I just leased a new 9-5 linear auto w. metallic paint but no premium package. My monthly payment is $399/m including the tax for 36 months and 12k a year. My residual is $15,969 and my total out of pocket was $1500 inc. first payment. With this type of residual, I might buy the car at the end of the lease, assuming the car turns out to be reliable and durable. I got the silver with the charcoal interior, and I must admit that wood dash was a little strange first, but I like it a lot for the simple fact that it does look different.
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    I guessing your payment is a little higher because of an automatic transmission. I would have loved the 5 speed but she won't drive one.

    As far as the wood dash with Charcol interior, I think it looks very good actually. The biggest difference is that you can always see the wood grain. The old style was so glossy that often times you'd just see glare.

    Drew
  • shinddashindda Member Posts: 2
    Hello Everyone. I last visited this site three years ago prior to purchasing my beloved 9-5 SE. I read all 540 messages prior to leasing my Saab. This, by the way, saved me a couple thousand as I learned about lease loyalty (spouse has a 9-3 conv), appropriate lease payments, etc. I adore my car and these three years have flown.

    Now, I get a call from Saab to tell me about my end of lease options. No, I may not lease for one more year. No, they will not negotiate my buy out - $21500. Obviously they want me to buy another Saab. So, I have to part with my wonderful car, perfect condition, 45,000 miles.

    The car I am going to lease is, yes, another 9-5. I am getting the Aero, but having a walnut dash installed (not easyto find a new walnut dash). I think Saab has lost their minds with the new dash options. If I could not have found a walnut dash, I would not have bought the Aero.

    This is the deal. $2600 down, $475 w/tax per month, 36 months, 15K miles per year. This inclues lease loyalty. Also, realized last night the three month early out mailer includes a certificate for an extra $250 off a 9-5 sedan.

    Is this a reasonable price?

    By the way, test drove a BMW 5 series and Lexus 300(?) - had the dealers both tell me that it is crazy to get a Saab - "not much of a buyer's market because only a small group of specific type buyers have an interest in a Saab". This convinced me their is no other choice for me.
  • eseireseir Member Posts: 26
    You are paying an extra $75 dollars more than I am per month, which is is a total of $2700 in payments. Plus , you are paying an extra $1100 out of pocket vs the $1500 that I paid. So, that is about $3800 more than me for an Aero. Sounds like a great deal, not to mention the fact that you are getting 15k a year. What is your residual?Metallic? Auto? Where?
  • shinddashindda Member Posts: 2
    Wow - that seems like a bad deal to me (or a good deal for the dealer). It is an automatic, with black paint (which I understand cost more). I am unsure of the residual - didn't even ask. The dealership is in Ohio. It does not have the ventilated seats which is OK as I am not crazy about the appearance. But the Zenon (sp?.?) headlights are awesome.
  • eseireseir Member Posts: 26
    A linear Sedan with auto and Metallic paint at $374 month plus tax with a $1500 total out of pocket, which it includes the first month payment is a great deal. Pleople are driving Passats and Honda Accords for this price. I forgat to mention that Saab waived my last three payments. Perhaps you might be getting an extremely good deal on an aero, but your are paying an extra $4000 in the life of the lease and your residual or buyout price will be much higher than mine. It is all realtive! Remember Automatics and metallic paints are more $$$$. Balck is not a metallic color.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    As an FYI, I thought I'd post my latest mileage figures for those interested in what a 9-5 SE sedan can give you:

    Dates - 5/18 to 6/12
    Total miles - 1228.70
    Total gallons - 50.75 from 4 fill ups
    Avg MPG - 24.21
    High MPG - 27.78
    Low MPG - 21.86

    This is from a combo of long distance driving at fairly high speeds (75+mph) and local suburban driving.

    Running Mobil One 10W-30 and a new K&N filter. Tires are at 41psi front and 39psi rear.

    Of course, ymmv.

    Hope this helps.
  • tlivactlivac Member Posts: 11
    I'm in the market for a 9-5 wagon, either Arc or Linear, and want to know if I can get a better deal in another state. I live in Westchester County NY about 20 miles from NYC so my guess is that I see the highest prices possible in my area.

    Also, what is the best deal I can expect for a lease with 15k on either car?
  • jerrykeejerrykee Member Posts: 3
    The testers at Edmunds totally missed the boat in their '02 Aero road test. They keep mentioning how you can get a loaded A4 or 330 for the same money. That may be true, but unless you are under 6 feet tall and weigh less than 160 pounds, there is NO WAY you can be as comfortable in those cars. The 9-5 is so much roomier than the A4 or 3-Series, you can actually use the bacak seat on trips longer than 10 minutes. And a 5-series? Great cars, until it rains or snows. Give me the SAAB with its good performance, roomy comfort, and good foul weather capabilities over those arrogant german marks any day.
  • redirectorredirector Member Posts: 27
    In the Aero Test, Ms. Richens asks: "Would you rather drive (and pay for) an athletically gifted A-student with a graduate degree or a flighty C-student who aspires to attend art school and grow his own food in Northern California?"


    Perhaps Edmunds should consider this weighty question when screening future road testers. What has Edmunds purchased and employed for its readers?


    Ms. Richerns' bio (posted at http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/editors.html) speaks for itself:

     

    "After graduating from a college in Memphis, Erin... came to California to pursue delusions of fame and grandeur... Eight months later, while still waiting to be noticed, she happened upon an ad for an Editorial Assistant who could drive a manual and eagerly threw together a cover letter full of sweet nothings and somehow landed the job... Erin readily admits that her background is not automotive in the least -- her parents owned a Fiat and a Pinto concurrently in the late 1970s and she probably paid too much for the aged Camry. But she reads and drives everyday and drags just enough of her job home each night to sicken her partner. Besides vehicles, her interests tend toward books, cake, fragmented films and vegetables.


    Erin drives a 1995 Nissan 240SX equipped with an automatic transmission."


    Stunning. Doesn't take an A-student to see the irony.


    Also noteworthy... Memphis is one of the country's great blues & bbq towns, and this one prefers movies, cakes and veggies. Oh-KAY...


    The power, reach, and "credibility" of the media is staggering.


    Aim higher, Edmunds. You underestimate your C-student readers.

  • siwatkinssiwatkins Member Posts: 6
    (Edited some typos)

    Dear Sirs,


    I write in disgust at the recent Erin Richerns review, and clearly inaccurate, biased Road Test on the 2002 Saab Aero. In brief, I believe the article to be full of factual inaccuracies, comments that would indicate that the reviewer hasn't actually tested the car in reality and tactical omissions that make one wonder at the credibility of Edmunds car reviewers. One wonders whether the article was posted by Edmunds as response to an allegation made on the very active Saabnet forum:-


    "A while ago someone from the Edmunds boards came here and posted a negative message about the 9-5 and then started to post negative replies using different names. I caught the IP in the logs and when I brought it up to the Edmunds admin over there, they quickly suppressed the fact - didn't want anyone to know about it. "


    Regardless, my comments about the review: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/64475/article.html

    are shown below.


    >Saab hasn't enjoyed a significant increase in sales over the last decade


    Errmm, sorry, but I think Saab would have something to say about that!


    >As always, though, numbers are only part of the story: if you're a turbo fan, you'll probably like the Aero's engine — it feels and sounds great above 2,000 rpm, and even better above 4,000 rpm, and it revs more smoothly than most high-pressure turbos.


    Probably revs more smoothly than all high pressure turbos! Has your reviewer understood the concept of twin balancer shafts?


    >But if you merely want a fast luxury car for $30,000 to $40,000, we think you'll prefer the more even power delivery of a six-cylinder engine.


    Doubt it - show me a V6 (*at the same price*) that has a smoother engine!?


    >You can get a V6 in the 9-5 Arc (albeit with a light-pressure turbocharger attached to it), but the G35, TL Type-S and 330i (not to mention the Audi A4, I35/Maxima and Chrysler 300M) all provide substantially more naturally aspirated power than the Arc for less money — in some cases, far less.


    The v6 is not the engine to go for in the Saab 9-5 - the Aero engine offers more of everything - Torque AND Power - why didn't they mention that?. Guess your reviewer didn't do much research before writing this article. Can your reviewer use a Browser? Try www.saabnet.com .......


    >Take the Aero out on public roads, and you'll enjoy perhaps the most refined suspension ever offered by Saab. In the larger context of entry-luxury sedans, however, it's nothing special.


    Has your reviewer actually tried anything else? The above (it's nothing special) comment suggests not....


    > If this is the way you drive most of time, the Aero will certainly suffice, but you could save yourself some money by going with the less sporting Linear model.


    LOL - credibility meltdown. The Aero has SPORTS suspension! It will "suffice"? - get real - how about an unbiased road test Edmunds!?


    >In spite of Saab's efforts to position the 9-5 Aero as an athletic entry-luxury car (since its introduction for the 2000 model year), we still wouldn't define it as such, even with the 2002 model's suspension upgrades — stiffer springs, retuned shock absorbers and thicker antiroll bars. When we pushed our test car into tight curves, we noted excessive body roll, as well as a strong predisposition toward understeer when exiting turns.


    Guess Edmunds have a different view to pretty much every other road test/user. Could it be that the reviewer lacks credibility?


    >Most drivers found it necessary to deactivate the system in order to give the Aero a serious workout, but in case your enthusiasm impairs your judgment, Saab made it tricky to turn ESP off: According to the owner's manual, ESP cannot be shut off at speeds above 35 mph, and even when it is turned off, it is always operative during braking.


    Excuse me? "Most Drivers"? Can you back that up with how many drivers you polled to make the claim "Most Drivers"? Absolute tosh. Never had to deactivate it yet! It does it's job.


    >As we eagerly pressed the throttle to power out of turns or glide down empty two-lane straightaways, our steering inputs and our gusto were immediately checked by heavy amounts of torque steer (not unusual in high-power front-drivers but especially pronounced in Saabs), the drive wheels veering outside of our intended path.


    Ahh, so the reviewer didn't drive the car at all! There is practically no perceptible Torque Steer on the 2002 Aero. What car were they driving?


    >Overall, the cockpit has a cozy, almost cramped feel (as if you were sitting in coach class)


    LOL. This is a car with MORE interior room than anything else in it's segment. I guess your reviewer knows how to spell "Hidden Agenda"


    " in consequence, we found that there weren't enough places to stash small items like cell phones,"


    Doh! Saab provide in their Accessories catalog a very nice Cellphone mount, not to mention door mounted pockets. Guess what? The Audio system is pre-wired to enable you take/make calls through the Stereo. As standard. Did that get a mention? No...


    " garage door openers (HomeLink isn't available) and tins of mints."


    Reviewer didn't find the seat pockets in the front of the seats then? Either they didn't drive the car, or they didn't do much research here. I suspect the former, picking up on out of date reviews by other testers of older models. It certainly wasn't a 02 they could have been testing. (or for that matter, any MY - they've all got these pockets)


    > The cupholder situation isn't any better; you have your choice of a funky holder that deploys from the center stack or another that's only available when the center console lid is open.


    A cupholder that has been acclaimed by more Designers than this reviewer has driven cars apparently. I suspect Saab have made more sales through the design of this cupholder than any other more important feature - such as Safety, safest in class. (But how important is this anyway! - it's a car, not a fast food joint! Perhaps the reviewer is more familiar with the interiors of MacDonalds?)


    "Still, we had a couple of small complaints: First, we wish the telescoping steering wheel provided a greater range of adjustment; and second, a sedan in this price class needs to provide height-adjustable seatbelts (which are already a staple among economy sedans)."


    What a surprise. Again the reviewer shows a lack of research. What's wrong with the telescoping adjustment? It has plenty of range! And height adjustable seatbelts. LOL, the reviewer didn't note that they are height adjusting

  • siwatkinssiwatkins Member Posts: 6
    . And not only that, they automatically adjust!!!

    "Getting in and out of the 9-5 was a little tricky for some of us."

    As is reviewing a car impartially and accurately it would seem lol.

    "The front doors seemed not to want to stay in their first hinged positions and swung back, bopping any heads and elbows that were in their way."

    Perhaps the first, fair and accurate, very minor criticism. Nice use of artistic flair to make a mountain out of a molehill though - (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...)

    > Opening the doors wider solved the problem, but this wasn't always possible in tight parking lots.

    Noooo, really? And that's a Saab quirk is it?

    > Also, the door sills are rather high in the front and rear, so extra attention is required to avoid tripping over them.

    LOL. Absolute drivel. (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...)

    >Editors were generally content with the visibility from the driver seat — helpful features include double sunvisors, an auto-dimming rearview mirror, memory for both outside mirrors and a built-in convex mirror on the passenger-side mirror. The latter feature was initially bewildering to a couple of editors, as images in the blind spot region (cordoned off from the rest of the mirror) appear distorted.

    Convex mirrors - now incorporated by other luxury makers. Surprised (very) that your reviewers hadn't picked up on what is a very useful safety feature before. They do test drive these cars they write about don't they?

    >Rearward visibility isn't great because of the 9-5's high rear decklid (a Park Assist feature was made available as part of the Touring Plus Package starting in March 2002)

    Worse than on any other large luxury Sedan, thus worthy of comment? No. (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...)

    > and we would have liked an auto-dimming feature for the outside mirrors.

    And now we get onto things that didn't make the feature list. Show me a BMW that is as well equipped as a Saab at the same price? You can't? Oh. (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...)

    >The rear seat is well-cushioned and supportive; a single-setting seat heater can warm up the entire bench on cold days. Leg- and shoulder room is about average for a midsize luxury car, but toeroom is tight.

    Toeroom is tight? They did actually get in the back did they? Toe room extends the length of the seat in front. How the reviewer could possibly say it's tight, would suggest that they didn't actually review a real car.

    > It's possible to put three kids back here,

    Nice (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A) comment. It's possible to put 3 large adults back there in comfort. Try that in a 3 series. (Bumped heads anyone?)

    >but the center passenger doesn't get a headrest and a hump limits legroom.

    Show me any manufacturer that provides a centre Headrest as standard for the *same* cost as the Saab with all the other extras that Saab provide as standard. Also show me a German manufacturer that includes a 3 point belt in the centre as STANDARD. Show me any car where the centre console doesn't limit legroom for the centre passenger. Or do you want the centre console removed so you can criticise that? There is nothing that can be done by any engineer of any car - centre console will limit centre rear legroom. Period. Reviewer not been researching again? Tsk. Tsk. When you have only two passengers, they can take advantage of the fold-down center armrest, ...

    >from which two flimsy cupholders deploy.

    LOL. They are not in the slightest bit "Flimsy". Have we seen owners reports on Saabnet moaning about these breaking? Of course not. They've been around now for 4 years.... (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...)

    >The only disappointment we found back here was the temporary-size spare tire under the floor.

    Disappointing for the reviewer not to find more?

    >The secondary controls were less impressive, as only the driver and passenger windows were auto-down from the driver door (with no auto-up feature whatsoever).

    Saab safety feature. It can't be cost - the electronics already exist in the car.

    >The control stalks (wipers on one, cruise and turn signals on the other) are cheap plastic.

    What did the reviewer want? Forged Aluminium? They are not "cheap" at all. This is again makes me extremely suspicious that the reviewer actually even tested this car.

    >When we pressed the foglights button on the left side of the wheel, we noted four other unused buttons — odd considering that our test car had all available options.

    Really? How about sensible. Saab thinking ahead for model revisions, provision for user fitted accessories without having to drill the dash? Yet again, a positive turned into a negative for some kind of hidden agenda.

    >Although we liked the handsome leather, thick-pile floor mats and soft-touch dash and door panels in the Aero, some of the materials were out of place in a $40,000 vehicle — vinyl sunvisors and scattered cheap plastics with mismatched grain patterns.

    What did the reviewer want the sunvisors to be made from? Wood? Doh. What BMW/Mercedes uses other than vinyl for sunvisors? Did they mention the secondary, very useful sunvisors? No, funny old thing....

    > Build quality was below average, as editors noted rough edges on the visors and various plastic panels,

    Nonsense. Better built than many recent Mercedes. Have you seen the plastic used in them? Or in Japanese cars?

    > loose interior trim pieces, misaligned headlight and taillight assemblies and rear doors that didn't fit uniformly.

    Really? Well, 4 x 9-5's I've never noticed a single flaw in those departments. Strange that your reviewer did then....

    >Aside from its turbocharged engine and unusual cabin styling, there is nothing to distinguish the 9-5 Aero from its competitors.

    Really? Can the reviewer spell Performance? Can the reviewer understand the concept of value for money? Do a proper review of this car versus any of the major manufacturer's equivalent, at the same pricepoint. So you'd be looking at best, a base BMW, with tiny engine, and no options. Clearly the reviewer hasn't done their research very well.

    >Consider that you can get a real sport sedan like the 330i with a sport-tuned suspension and leather for roughly the same price

    Oh.. it's a "real" sports sedan? What does 250bhp, 0-60 in 6.7seconds, sports tuned suspension, and torque levels that blow away the competition make the Saab then? (H.I.D.D.E.N. A.G.E.N.D.A - spelt out for your reviewer...).
    Note that the 330i has MUCH less interior space. (some could call it cramped), and fewer extras as standard. Spec it to the same levels, and you are talking about a consiberably smaller car, with no performance advantage. And guess what, the 330i has sports tuned suspension LIKE the Aero, that will cause "rough patches of p
  • siwatkinssiwatkins Member Posts: 6
    avement tended to upset the chassis a little."

    Enough dissection. It is clear that the reviewer has limited experience in driving and accurate reporting, let alone in driving the 2002 Saab Aero. It would be interesting to hear what Saab think, so I've copied this to their customer service departments, and to Saabnet, as I'm sure such a clearly biased, and non-impartial review will provoke lots of discussion as to Edmunds credibility as an automotive resource. I'm surprised that your editorial department didn't pick up on the gross inaccuracies in this article. Funny that the reviewer didn't pick up on the word "quirky" when they were amalgamating all their negatives about this car from other peoples reviews. Shame they didn't pick up on the positives too. Class leading Safety, Class leading performance, Class leading fuel economy for such high performance, superb ergonomics, practical common sense features, class leading reliability, class leading lighting equipment (funny the HID lights weren't mentioned), class leading value for money, class leading interior room, class leading comfort. It's not a perfect car, but compare it to anything else at the *same* pricepoint, and it knocks spots off the competition. Regardless of Class.

    Disgusted at what was a clearly third-rate article about an A+ car. C- awarded to the reviewer with so little experience that they didn't even mention Twin Balancer shafts, amazing levels of torque, and outstanding fuel economy.

    Suggest they might like to cut their teeth on something smaller and japanese....like a Nissan 240SX - they might actually be able to talk from a factual standpoint.

    Simon Watkins (From the UK, 2002 9-5 Aero owner). And yes, I looked very closely at competition at the same pricepoint. Nothing else came close.
  • jracinejracine Member Posts: 28
    I, too have been completely disgusted by the biased, distorted, uninformed and unfair review of the 9-5 Aero.


    More than a "religious" thing, I simply cannot accept that such a GREAT car, recognized as such by ALL recent reviews receives such an obviously flawed and insulting review from a obviously inexperienced driver.


    GO BUY THE LAST ROAD AND TRACK. "Real reviewers rated the car 4th out of 12". The "Engineering Editor" of the mag even made it HIS pick!


    To add to my disappointment, when I read the name of the reviewer, I said to myself: great to see a women writing a review. Might have a new perspective. BOY WAS I WRONG!


    Erin: reviewing cars is a serious job. Less informed people RELY on reviews such as yours to get informed. You cannot treat your readers like this.


    siwatkins did a great job of commenting this review. I just would like to add a few items.


    It is an insult that security aspects (best in class!) have not been give appropriate coverage. THIS IS ONE MAJOR REASON WHY WE BUY CARS: TO PROTECT US!


    "One common feature that Saab has not picked up on is a head curtain airbag system for front and rear passengers."


    Oh, there are no side curtains? You know why? They are dangerous!


    "Safest car ever tested" please read:


    Last year, the Saab 9-5 was given a top, four-star crashworthiness rating by EuroNCAP after the inclusion of a new pole impact test. Following the tests, the EuroNCAP consortium stated that the Saab 9-5 was the safest car they had ever tested. The EuroNCAP consortium is comprised of the Swedish Road Administration, the British and Dutch Ministries of Transport, the EU Commission, FZ<caron>dZ<caron>ration Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club e V (ADAC), Alliance Internationale de Tourisme (AIT) and International Consumer Research and Testing (ICRT).


    Source: http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/models/2002/pr7.html


    What about the SAHR system which limits the movement of the head in a rear-end crash? Please read from the same source.


    For the full detail on the 9-5, please visit:

    http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/models/2002/

    (Thank You Saabnet)


    Yes, SAAB has come a long way. And 2002 sales are the best ever. If car companies that improve tremendously their cars cannot be recognized and applauded, then write off the whole US car industry!


    EDITORS OF EDMUNDS PLEASE READ THIS: Hire who yo want to test drive cars. But you ARE responsible to ensure that the content is ACCURATE AND FAIR. You clearly dropped the ball.


    A VERY well informed 32-tear old car fan, who drives a stunning 9-5 Aero (2002) Silver Gray (3rd SAAB in 7 years) during the week and carries his little family in an Honda Odyssey EX-L 2002.


    I am seriously wandering if I will log in here ever again.


    I stand behind all this. My email address is: jr@laser-registration.com

  • jracinejracine Member Posts: 28
    I have made a request through this site to

    "Add another category to this discussion" so all info pertaining to the review could be in the same thread.

    I hope Edmunds will have the guts to do this.
  • jracinejracine Member Posts: 28
    Please read this for a fair review:


    http://www.nctd.com/02/mid/02saab95.cfm

  • siwatkinssiwatkins Member Posts: 6
    As has been pointed out to me in another forum....

    The article quotes:

    >The secondary controls were less impressive, as only the driver and passenger windows were auto-down from the driver door

    Since when have the Window switches on any 9-5, let alone the Aero been mounted on the Driver's door?

    Did they really test this car? You decide....

    (Hint to Erin: They never have been mounted on the Driver's door. Nowhere near in fact. Might be handy to pick up a brochure from Saab before you do your next "Test Drive"....

    Simon Watkins
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    But I gave up on Edmunds editorial staff long ago. Like someone said, they tend to be youngish (20s & 30s), west coast biased, and prefer either the status symbols or the serious performance cars. BMW and Audi are both so they'll always be preferred in the minds of the editors because that's the cars they would own if they could afford them (or do own and are naturally biased anyway).

    I've read quite a few Edmunds road tests and have not liked the writing style and personality of a single review, regardless of car. Too much attitude covering up too little talent.
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    It would be nice to get a proper review here but Idon't see a need to get that upset. It doesn't appear many people use the reviews here to make buying decisions.

    Someone pointed out the recent Road & Track sedan comparisons. This is a better source for a proper review. Saab didn't come in First and that's probably accurate. They did finish above (in order from last to 5th place) Lincoln LS, Jag X-Type 3.0, Volvo S60 T5, Caddy CTS, Mercedes C320 Sport, Acura 3.2 TL Type S and Audi A4 3.0 Quattro.

    The Lexus IS 300, BMW 330i and Infinite G35 won out over the Saab but note the scoring, it was very close. The G35 is a great design but if it weren't for the aggressive pricing, it would not have come in first place. Price is a huge factor as well it should be.

    Also note some of the scoring. Saab came in second on interior styling to Audi and just barely second on Interior Egonomics. The Edmunds review was critical in this area. Saab also came in a close second on Engine rating and scored close to the top in many other specific areas.

    The Road & Track review is much more detailed and in depth. It was conducted by a panel of various people who understand cars. Saab came in fourth which is reasonable. Edmund's probably only had the car to test for an hour or two.

    What I do find a little odd is the grouping of cars in the RT review. The 9-5 is more closely compared to car like the 5-Series, E-Class and A6. In that test, the 9-5's price would probably do for it what price did for Infiniti. The 9-3 is more closely matched to the 3-Series, C-Class and A4 BUT.... we have to wait for next years 9-3 if Saab wants to do well in that comparison(and it WILL). The Current 9-3 won't fair well right now I'm afraid.

    Drew
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    If you want the editors to read your comments, your best bet is to access the Help link at the top (or bottom) of this page and use the Feedback options. The editors may or may not follow this individual discussion.

    jracine, what category would you like to see added to this discussion? I assure you that this is exactly the right place to discuss that review.

    Let me know if I can add something to the categories, though.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • dmherolddmherold Member Posts: 1
    I'm a current 9-5 Sedan leasee, my contract is up in two weeks and I have been trying to get a 2002 9-5 Aero wagon, 5 spd, no premium package now for 2 months. . my dealer (S. FLA) said there were only a handful in the country, I couldn't order it, and no other dealers are willing to trade. . . I'm stuck. I really want the aero wagon and cannot find any help. . suggestions please? OUt of state dealer? Auction? I hope someone out there can assist. . . David d_herold@rocketmail.com
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    How willing are you to travel for this? I'd start by checking some of the Largest Dealers in the country. They will have fairly large inventories with more choices. I used to know some of the top dealers but I couldn't really tell you who they are now. I forget the Dealers name in Denver, he's always near the top. My dealer is always near the Top Also and has three locations, Just Saab in Cincinnati. They have a very large inventory. I'd also think Atlanta would be a good place to start given your location.

    Perhapse you should forgo relying on the dealer locating this car and start calling around yourself. Dealers really prefer to sell off their own inventory and may not be very motivated to help much. Link up with one of the internet Yellow Pages and start calling around. It'd be worth it for this car. I'd be curious to know if your dealer was telling the truth about only a hand full of them available in the country. For a 5-Speed, they are probably right but it's really is the best configuration for this car IMO. If inventory is low, you may have to go with a second or third choice on color. I'm also wondering if you can locate by calling Saab USA direct in Atlanta or from their Web Site.

    Good luck
    Drew
  • theremintheremin Member Posts: 26
    There are dealers I know of in so. Calif--one in particular--that have pretty decent inventories. The biggest is Saab of Santa Ana (714) 542-7060; also Saab of Santa Monica (310) 453-4282 and Saab of Sherman Oaks (818) 981-2000. Good luck.
  • theremintheremin Member Posts: 26
    I wanted to chime in on the response to the recent Edmunds review of the Aero. I'll start by saying that I am coming to the end of my lease on an Audi A6 and am basically deciding between getting another one or going for an Aero. I really like the Audi and have never owned a Saab--but I do have a real fondness, almost fascination for them. I think the review is mostly annoying and ill-conceived, although there are a few things that I agree with--I'll elaborate and make a few comparisons. Any input to help me decide is appreciated. (My impressions of the Aero are based on 2 test drives--total of about 12 minutes of driving--so far.)

    --I was really impressed with the aero engine, I couldn't believe it was a 4 cyl. It never seemed to labor and it's a rocket with only the tiniest hint of turbo lag--hardly worth mentioning.

    --Torque steer? Virtually none as far as I could tell, and I gunned it from a dead stop into a turn a few times. The handling was razor sharp, I don't know what the reviewer was talking about.

    --Seat? I must say I think Audi has the best seats around. The lumbar support alone, which you can adjust automatically in & out AND up& down is tremendous. I'm 5'9" 170lbs and I actually wish the Saab seats were a little
    wider; and I wish there was a better lumbar support, and that you didn't have to crank it by hand. The Saab seats are good, but not the best IMO.

    --I'm afraid I have to agree with the review on the steering wheel: I DO wish it telescoped further out. When I have the seat adjusted to what feels like the ideal position for me, the steering wheel doesn't quite come close enough--I have to reach just slightly (and again, I'm 5'9").

    --The smell--Saabs have the best smelling interiors! I don't know what's in that leather, but it's unique and really pleasing to the senses.

    --Cupholders--I really like the cupholder that pops out of the dash (again, don't know what reviewer was thinking), but the 2nd cupholder is virtually useless. The storage bin is small enough without having that ridiculous cupholder taking up space--an inconveniant and somewhat dangerous space at that. I wish they could find a way to fit a 2nd pop-out holder in the dash somewhere.

    --Cheap plastic? Not compared with most cars. The fit & finish of the Saab interior is very nice for the most part, though again IMO Audi is unmatched in this department--everything feels solid, tight and smooth.

    --No home link button--This surprises me alot. Many cheaper cars have this, and it's pretty unacceptable to not have one on a 40k car.

    --I know the no-one-touch-up for the windows is supposed to be a 'safety' feature, but I do find it inconveniant and wish Saab could do like Audi and make the windows one-touch-up with the safety feature that automatically prevents them from closing on a hand etc.

    --I like the way the Aero looks. It's looks upscale and muscular at the same time without being 'trendy' or bland. (I like it in the cosmic blue best, I think).

    --I wish Saab had an all-wheel drive option--I've discovered that I like it alot in the A6, though the Aero does handle twists and curves in a groove as far as I can tell. (I understand all wheel drive may be coming down the line for Saab).

    In sum, an Audi A6 2.7Turbo stickers for around 2-3K more than the Aero. I really like the A6 2.8 quattro that I've had for 3 years (the better free scheduled maintenence-4yrs/50K miles is certainly an incentive), and the amenities are a notch higher in the Audi, but part of me really likes the Aero and WANTS to want one. It is fun to drive, it's safe and there is something indefinably...uplifting about the way a Saab feels when you're driving it. I'm leaning toward getting another A6 (if I can get an affordable deal), but if anybody out there has any input to sway me, bring it on! Thanks.
  • siwatkinssiwatkins Member Posts: 6
    Hi - in the cold light of day etc... You bring out some good points, and some fair criticisms. That is what the original review should have done. It seemed like that Erin had a real chip on her shoulder about the Saab - it was strange to see.

    If I can pick up on a couple of your comments. Steering wheel telescoping - I can see no practical engineering or cost reason why it couldn't be made longer, but wonder if there is a safety factor here (Saab being so safety conscious etc)

    Handling - A quick look at Edmund's own site shows that over the 600ft slalom, the Saab was faster than ANY of 10 cars tested in a luxury Sedan comparison. So much for the comments on ESP and understeer. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the handling on the 02 models, though I grant that the 99 I owned suffered too much body roll.

    Torque Steer - Absolutely right - imperceptible in the Auto version, and virtually imperceptible in the manual. How one of the reviewer's found the "wheel to be wrenched" out of his hand, gawd only knows.

    Seats - Each to their own I guess :-) Incidentally, the UK Aero comes with Electrically adjustable Front Seats as standard.

    - Home-Link button? Not sure what this is - presumably some US must-have convenience feature :-) If it is a switch to open your Garage Door remotely, you could always purchase an accessory switch from Saab, and mount it, perfectly integrated, in one of the thoughtfully provided switch blanks on the Dashboard :-)

    I think your summary is quite balanced and fair, showing only a little Audi bias :-) From a Saab owner's perspective, I think there is probably little in it between the two cars. In the UK, where the Saab is much cheaper than the Audi (in the same trim), there is no contest - the Saab will win every time. What you may want to check up on when making your decision, is the difference between the sticker price of the Audi vs the Saab. I suspect you can make quite a saving. That might clinch it for you, or at least help in your decision making, in which I wish you all the best.

    Simon Watkins
    Saab 9-5 2002 Aero HOT. Steel Grey, 5spd Auto.
  • tlivactlivac Member Posts: 11
    I'm in the market for a 9-5 wagon, either Arc or Linear, and want to know if I can get a better deal in another state. I live in Westchester County NY about 20 miles from NYC so my guess is that I see the highest prices possible in my area.

    Also, what is the best deal I can expect for a lease with 15k on either car?
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    The Front seat come Electronicaly Adusted here in the US as Standard also. "Theremin" was referring to the Electronic Lumbar Adjustments in the Audi. Saab doesn't offer that.

    Home link is a feature that provides you with a few bottons that allow you to remotely activate various things such as a Garage Door opener and Lights etc. in your home (anything you can plug into an electrical outlet). It uses FM Radio waves (X-10 Brand) technology to turn things on and off remotely. It is available for about $100US in the catalog but many mid level cars sold in the US have this feature as standard equipment. It's also available a Radio Shack for a fraction of the Saab Catalog Cost but neither are as nicely installed as the Factory Units are in cars like Audi or Nissan.

    I do agree with most of "theremon's" comparisons to the A6. The A6 does have great seats. The A4 seats are a different story -- very short seat bottom. The one touch close features for windows and Sunroof on the Audi are Great. However, Audi's Maintenence program may seem better but those programs ARE NOT FREE. They are reflected in the Sticker Price. Saab could charge a higher price and offer more "Free" services as well or.. Audi could reduce their pricing and offer fewer "Free" services.

    I've had a couple Audi's over the years and have LOVED them. For the money and fun factor, I like my last three Saab's just as well though. An A8 would be nice someday though and a TT Coupe would be welcome in my garage. As soon as I can justify spending the money for a Toy, I'll have one.

    Drew
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    If you are willing to travel, try Saab of Troy in Michigan. They were #1 in sales last year (in the U.S.). They have a large inventory
  • redirectorredirector Member Posts: 27
    A couple of other points for your consideration.

    Dealer Experience:
    I have owned a 1998 Audi A4, always coveted the A6, but when I finally had the $$$ to afford one, I was disillusioned by the Audi dealership, particularly the service dept and even the repeat-Audi purchase experience. So I shopped around, and had excellent pre and post-sale expriences with Saab, and in addition to the vehicle comparison, the Dealer experience was important to me. Saab also has a free 3 yr scheduled maintenance program. Of course all markets are different, so that's entirely subjective and locally influenced.

    Safety:
    The latest iihs tests are out (http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_midlux.htm), and the 2002 Saab 9-5 is a Best Pick. The 2002 Audi A6 tested a category grade lower, Average. Saab wins all the European tests, too. So this might be a "best in category" for Saab vs the competition. Saab also has OnStar now, not sure whether Audi has rolled this out yet...

    Customization:
    Audi interiors are the class of the industry. BUT, Saab has a good standard interior and you can add some nice touches. I took the liberty of adding some accessories from the Saab catalog -- wood steering wheel, door pulls, shifter, cellphone holder. These I negotiated as part of the overall package at a significant discount to aftermarket costs.

    Both the A6 and the 9-5 are really excellent executive-class transports, and if you are considering the Aero vs the 2.7t, you are in for a hell of a ride either way!

    Good luck with your choices, and thank you for "calibrating" the Edmunds review. Not that I should be surprised...

    Redirector
    2002 9-5 Arc
  • theremintheremin Member Posts: 26
    Thanks for your input and giving me more food for thought r.e. the Aero vs the A6. I have a question which probably seems pretty strange, but it's a very important consideration for me--if you guys or anyone else out there have an idea about this I'd appreciate it.
    --When a CD is playing on the Saab's Harmon-Karden system (a very good stock system, by the way), the display simply says "play". When you hit fast forward or reverse, THEN the elapsed playing time (i.e. 2:37 etc) appears, but only until you let go of the button at which point the time disappears and "play" re-appears. Very often when I'm in the car I'm listening to things for professional reasons and I need to be able to see the playing time on a CD WHILE it's playing. This is pretty much an imperative for me and could even be a deal-breaking problem. Is there any way the display can be programmed or re-wired so that the playing time is constantly visible (rather than just seeing "play")? Obviously the elapsed playing time is in there, I just need to SEE it without having to constantly push a button and interrupt the sound. Odd question I know, but any thoughts? Thanks.

    p.s. I'll be test-driving the Aero a few more times in the near future, so I'll be dropping in with more impressions, comparisons, questions etc.

    Michael
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    Wow.. now there's something that no one outside of your profession would think of. I couldn't even have told you how to access the Elapsed Play time. It's simply not something I'd really ever need to know but I understand if it's something that Helps your work.. you need it.

    If the Saab were here now I'd be happy to get the manual out and see if there is a way.. Sorry. If you don't get an answer by this evening, I'll get the book and check it out for you.

    Drew
  • redirectorredirector Member Posts: 27
    It may be one of those user-definable, programmable settings that can be adjusted using the dealer programming tools (where you can also change, if you want, how the security system operates, the settings for the A/C, etc). Not sure, but maybe.

    Might be worth a trip to the Service Technicians, rather than a sales rep (but a good sales rep will dig for it).
  • bmwjoebmwjoe Member Posts: 136
    Tell the dealer that it is a deal breaker. Ask them to show you a car with the display indicationg the play time. If is can be done, they will do it to make the deal.

    Drive Safe,

    Joe
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    There is always the option of aftermarket stereos...and you can get a mighty fine CD unit for the price of a premium stereo option.

    Unless you like to keep a car stock, I feel this will always be the better option. Unless you have that lexus Mark Levinson system:)
  • theremintheremin Member Posts: 26
    I appreciate the responses to my question about the CD elapsed time display--haven't gotten an answer yet, I'm going to try & ask a dealer later today. The aftermarket solution might not be possible with the Saab--it's what I did with my Audi A6 (I don't like Bose at all) and I currently have an incredible sounding system made up of various components (Eclipse, Alpine, JL Audio and MB Quartz) which can all be removed when my lease is up. It would be very difficult to remove and replace the entire Saab dash audio panel--and it wouldn't look very good. Also, these components that I bought for the Audi probably won't fit the Saab and I can't afford to buy any more aftermarket stuff right now. The Harmon Kardan stock system is good enough for me--except for the time display problem. Hmm--maybe I should try to contact Harmon Kardan and ask them. Well...if anyone finds anything else out, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

    Michael
  • darandalldarandall Member Posts: 57
    Remember to change the amplifier start volume when you test the car. With the radio off, hold down the weather band button. Turn the radio on. Start volume of 9 will show. Turn the volume knob up to 22, then release the weather band button. Turn the radio off for at least 10 seconds, then enjoy the system. You'll be amazed. You won't want the time to elapse ever!!
  • dskidski Member Posts: 414
    I'm skeptical about that start volume subject. I tried it in my last 9-5 and the only thing that changed was that the radio would always be too loud when we started the car.

    I don't beleive any other variables changed. I do know that you need to turn the "loud" feature on to full enjoy music though.

    Drew
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