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Comments
Is yours the V6?
Drew
If the car is only 2 years old, and the dealer is being honest (which from what you've presented, they aren't), you should press for some kind of assistance from Saab. That mileage/age is low for a H/G failure.
Can you not try another Saab main dealer (perhaps your original one). If they are scamming you, then Saab need to know.
Simon
But a new head gasket??? Even a high school auto shop student knows there are lots of obvious ways to check for that problem. If the story is true then I think it took alot of ballz to suggest that service.
If they put it in writing then you might have something against them to use at Saab USA. Since you didn't fall for it you'll be hard pressed to prove you were harmed but I think Saab USA needs to know that one of their dealers is trying to stick it to people.
I'd expect this from something like a Chevy dealer. I have a friend who has an old Suburban that had a bad miss. He just moved out of state and took it to the nearest Chevy dealer in his new town. They gave him an estimate for over $1400 to fix the truck. He arranged a meeting with the service mgr and the tech who wrote the estimate. Over $1000 of the work was parts replacements that weren't needed or so-called preventive maintenance ("well, since your truck is so old we think these repairs are a good idea..."). All the truck needed was new plug wires, cap-rotor-condensor, and fresh plugs. Along with a few other parts the *real* total was about $300.
If it smells like BS, it is. You did good by getting a second opinion. What's next is up to you.
The Audi A4 fell off my list as it is small - and feels cheap. I would never buy a car in 2002 without Telematics on it - and if you want Onstar in an Audi - better be prepared to drop 5K on options !!! Build your own Audi. ? .. hmmm it should say : build your own - pay MSRP and wait 4 months.
If you live in New Haven CT, you will also experience the uglyliest Audi dealer I have ever seen in my life. It's located in Wallingford CT with 5 brands crammed into a shack like warehouse building.. The sad Audi rings are spray painted on metal mesh and is falling off the building....... very very funny. Oh yes the sales team - well lets just say you will hop on a time machine and vist the 1970's.... in my opinion these people could also be selling knives... siding....vacuums .. it makes no difference....... and I have never been on a test drive where I was explaining how a car works. ! - this guy was a senior sales guy...:))
OK - moving along - dumping Audi off the list - I gave the 9-5 Linear a test drive and loved it. The first dealer in Connecticut quoted me 34K – and initially would not get me the above color combo. I called dealer #2 up the road and immediately got a quote of 31.5 K ( less tax and documents ) plus the color combo I wanted (he had to bring it in from Hartford). The first dealer obviously did not tell me about the rebate and wanted to take advantage of me so I did not mind driving 30 miles to dealer #2. I’m sure I could have got dealer #2 down even more ( 30k even ) however I think I got a decent price on this regardless. Bewarned that CarsDirect quoted me 34K.... so even this highly rated online source is cashing on in this hidden deal...
The best part of the purchase was being pre financed via PeopleFirst.Com . I walked into the dealer and the salesperson gave me absolutely zero attitude ( – no the undercoating - no extended warranty chat – just the keys waiting and polished 9-5 with 35 miles on it. I wrote the amount in the preapproved check- signed some other forms and I was out the door in 30 minutes.
Things I love about this car:
- Despite being a four cylinder I love the speed and handling.
- Quality – Quality - Quality - the doors shut like a vault – and it feels like 40K car. ( I can not say this about the many A4’s I test drove )
- Premium Stereo rocks
- Love the room in this car – the A4 was like a little box compared to this
- Onstar is great – can’t believe you would buy a car with out it.
- Great traction - it was pouring last night and this car handles very well on slippery surfaces
- Not having to use premium gas will save me mondo.
Not too happy:
- the 3-year maintenance seems a bit thin - should be 4 to match warranty and include a few more bells and whistles
- I may look at replacing the wood dash to Aluminum and give the car a bit more of an edge (has anyone done this yet)
Global Saab suggestions
- Get a new website - the current US one sucks and almost turned me away from this great car.
- XM satellite radio should be an option in all 2002 Saabs – a total no brainier. A further perk could be a free XM Saab channel if one doesn’t want to spend the 10 bucks a month.
Overall I’m very happy - I feel I have purchased something unique - well built – with good value. I hope the A4 owners enjoy the 37K Jetta
Couple notes: Although the 3year maintenance may seem thin, you have to remember it is NOT really free. They could increase the time and coverage but ultimately the cost shows up in the purchase price. You got a Great price. The savings is better in your pocket now rather than paying for 5 years of wiper blades up front.
XM would be nice. Saab is putting it in the new upcoming 9-3 which appears to be an AMAZING car from what I've seen so far. I've already seen the full brochure and we may actually be regreting not waiting for it. It is much better equipped and will leap frog over the competition finally in it's Class.
I loved your idea of a Saab Channel on the XM radio. I have not experienced XM yet. Are Manufacturers creating their own channels?
I also love the On-Star system. I do wish they would offer a more competitive package and ability to use a Portible phone like BMW does with their hands free system though. I keep bugging On Star about this one when I get surveys. I only want one phone and one phone number for my Cell Service. Help me out with that one guys. It can already be done but On Star has licensing rights to the equipment so they could squash us from connecting a portible phone and by-passing their service.
Enjoy the new ride.
Drew
Stan
1. When I shut off the car I hear a noise coming from the engine (I think it's the a/c compressor shutting down??) It's not a fan but rather a low rumble that dies down after about 2 or 3 seconds.
2. When I make a quick turn left or right a noise from the steering column. Not a scraping noise but again like a rumble.
any advice or anyone with similar issues?
I was in a 9-5 SE wagon. Was hit broadside by
a caddy doing about 50. Airbags deploy....
no call from onstar.
So much for GM promises....
kirstie_h
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Share your vehicle reviews
You obviously own a computer so you know how todays technology can sometimes fail and let us down. I'm sure you've experienced similar failings with your Cell Service as well.
I'd bet the OnStar system has a pretty good track record in these matters but don't forget, it may not even be OnStars fault. They also have to depend on a Reliable Cell signal and Service to work properly. Maybe it was Verison's or WorldComms fault. If you were in a Dead Cell service, it's not really anyones fault. Have you considered that possibility? OnStar is pretty clear about explaining their dependibility on Cellular services and any damage to the equipment in a crash.
Best of luck hope they fix the car fast for you.
Drew
I know that onstar works in the area of the accident: the other vehicle was a '01 caddy, and
onstar called him. My guess is that the impact severed a cable in the car or something.
By the way, the car is not reparable. Everything
right of the center console is damaged. (the center console was crushed). The car has been replaced with a Toyota minivan.
Is this normal? I have the 30k service coming up. Any thoughts on what to say to the dealer?
Ride Safe,
Joe
If there is something that can be improved to keep On-Star functioning after a collision, We current owners sure would appreciate it being addressed.
Drew
Or we can lease it for $467 month, 3 yr. 12k mile lease($20500 residual, 1000 down). To me the lease is almost $3000 more then just outright buying it, can anyone explain why that might be? Does this sound like a good deal?
If you compare a LOAN on the $35K to the lease deal, you should come up with the Lease being cheaper unless you get a very low or no interest loan. Wether or not it makes sense to pay cash for expensive cars is another story.
Drew
more reliable, the light-pressure or the high-
output turbo.I intent to keep the car for atleast 6 years.Thanks for all the information.
(www.saabnet.com), it seams that the
2.3 HPT engine is more reliable than the
2.3 LPT engine. The primary isues seem to
blue smoke (blown turbo). The V6 lpt also
seems to be reliable.
Never seen an HPT like that.
Bill
I've never had this many failures in all my other ars combined (mostly Acuras & Toyotas).
Is there a problem with the Saab electical system?
Is it normal to run through a set of Saab brake pads in 25k miles? I've never had to replace brake pads at less than 40k before.
I love the car, but I'm considering selling it before the warranty period expires. Thoughts?
timing belt or chain? (I4 and V6)
also, am trying to decide between the Saab 9-5
and the Infiniti G35.
all input welcome.
thanks.
3.0t: timing belt (first replacement "free" @60K)
Can't comment on Infinity 35 (except, it is
a lot smaller, I think).
As far as the brakes go, there is no simple answer as to what normal life is. ie. I got almost 50K out of my New Montero and the dealer was amazed claiming that on average owners are looking at their second pad replacement by then. I drive 80% highway in that vehicle and No Aggressive driving.
Have your driving patterns changed at all with the Saab? Many people will claim they haven't changed but when taking time to think, they sometimes will admit to driving the Saab in a more "Aggresive/ Fun" manner than with their other cars. Driving in that manner is expected more from the likes of Saabs and BMW's etc than with Honda's and Acura's. The First Step is Admitting it then accept that the results are a happier existance and Shorter Brake Pad Life.
Drew
Am I a CHAMP now?
3500 back on 9-3se
6000 back on 9-3se convert.
6750 back on 9-5 linear (no mention of prem package)
5000 back on 9-5 linear wagon
This is from the GM Supplier Discount website but the rebates are typically the same ones everybody gets.
1) how do the preferated seats really work to keep one cool?
2) how is gas milage on average for those who have the ARC and the AERO?
3) over the long haul, day in and day out, is the suspension on the AERO? - too stiff? too jarring?
4) whats the 'winter wheel package' (16 inchers) like with the AERO? ((how does it handle in the snow?)
thanks in advance.
You're a champ! Thanks. When I told the dealership I was posting this note they said, well, we can do the full $6,750. The power of communication! Thanks!
What have been your experiences with certified preowned SAAB's? Is the warranty as good as it reads???Am I missing something?
My brother feels that 21,000 miles in a year is hard driving and I will be facing the expense of new brakes and tires sooner rather than later and these are exclusionary items?
He also says that when the warranty runs out, I will not be able to afford maintenance or repairs which are notorously expensive. Is that true??
I looked into the cost of an extended warranty and it is $2000-ouch!
Is anyone driving the Arc /
auto 6 cyl? How is it behaving itself so far??
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice.
By the way 2001 v6 was called the SE. I had a 2001 SE wagon...bought new for 30,500. Totalled it after 6 months (was hit broadside by a caddy doing 50 mph). I did not buy another saab because we really needed a minivan (children...).
The certification gives you a 100K warentee. Should be no need for another warentee. Also, V6 seems to be a good engine. I have not heard of any problems with it. (I did not own my car long enough to encounter any problems). The 2.3 LPT engine does seem to have issues with turbos/blue smoke (HPT 2.3 does not have this problem).
Once thing to consider, though is that SAAB maintence and repairs are expensive. Even though you would be paying 25K, down the road expenses will be much higher than many other cars. Price out the 60K tuneup, for example.
Also check www.saabnet.com
As for electrical glitches, I've had my SID replaced once due to dead pixels and several bulbs from courtesy lights, all under warranty. Never had a headlight or foglight burn out. First thing I did when I bought the car was remove fuse #35. I hate DRL's.
I hated the 3rd brake light back in the day they became mandatory ('86). But then the day came during rush hour when I saw two cars ahead hit the brakes extremely hard. I narrowly missed the car just ahead even though I was following a safe distance. From that point on, the 3rd light was just fine with me.
DRL's absolutely help people see you in various conditions.
Drew
Here are some of the questions I have and hopefully can be answered or opinionated by some of you Saab enthusiasts.
1. Do you know of any changes to the upcoming 2003 9-5 model? i.e. Nav, XM (satellite radio), etc. Especially navigation.
2. When is the next major change (cycle year) to the 9-5 model?
3. Curiosity question - What does the model designations represent? (i.e. 9-3, 9-5) Is Saab using the -3 and -5 in similar ways to the BMW's 3 and 5 series? Looks that way - luxurious SPORT sedan in the 9-3 and a sporty LUXURY sedan in the 9-5.
4. I'm rather impressed with some of the new features implemented in the 2003 9-3 model. Will we see some of the things migrated into the 9-5 models in the near future and how soon? (i.e. Nav, ReAxs, ideal location of the SID)
5. Like most people, I'm highly concerned about long term reliability. I have seen Consumer's Reports review on the 9-5 and it received high marks. And from the forums I have been following, the 9-5 has been far more reliable then the old platform 9-3. What have some of you 9-5 owners experienced with your car? One of the things I'm worried about if I wait for the next major change on the 9-5 - Will the new platform be as reliable? I've read some "horror" stories on the 9-3 previous years. Do you all expect higher reliability with the new 2003 9-3 platform then the last platform?
6. Opinion - I plan on paying for one of these models fully in cash when I return from overseas in about 6+ months. Being retired military - Saab has a discount 9% off MSRP. Can I do better than this?
7. Since reliability is often in the back of everyone's mind, particularly mine - Would I be better off just leasing one of these automobiles, experience it and then decide if I want it long term? Of course my first choice is to buy since I don't want to pay extra for a depreciating asset, but on the otherhand, I also don't want to be stuck with something that turns out to be a money pit.
8. Last question (I promise for now, but I'm sure I forgot something I wanted to ask) - Are the cup holders as crappy and useless as everything I read and heard? LOL.
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for answering any or all of my questions.
..Mark
Handling question - Has anyone had a noticeable problem with torque steer, common to high performance front wheel drives, and if so, how bad is it? How is the handling, cornering and road "connection" of the 9-5? If someone has comparision driven a BMW 3 or 5 series - how does it compare?
Thanks again.
..Mark
--Cup holders: the one that pops out from the dash is fine (although it's circumference could stand to be a little wider); the one that's in the arm-rest storage bin is completely useless. Even if you never put anything in the storage bin (fat chance), you have to lift the arm rest up completely to use it. Just know that you'll have one decent cup holder in the front of the car.
Torque steer, BMW comparison: Having driven a handful of different aeros, I've found the torque steer to be pretty mild (even varying somewhat from one car to another). I'm used to the all-wheel drive quattro steering on the Audi, so I can definitely feel the difference, but it doesn't bother me that much. When you consider how much HP and torque is being generated by the aero engine, it's not that bad at all, and I think one could get used to it pretty easily. I've found the handling, cornering and 'road connection' in the aero to all be excellent. It hugs corners, feels really responsive and tight--it especially feels good accelerating into corners. I test drove an aero and a 530i back-to-back and while the BMW is a great car, handles great, hugs the road etc, it's certainly not as fast as the aero and when you factor in the price difference for what you get (BMW options often have to be added separately & the $$ piles up), the aero came out ahead for me.
--My 9-5 complaints: the 2nd cupholder is useless; I wish there were more cabin storage room; the exterior color choices are rather unexciting (I have the same complaint about the AudiA6--BMW comes out way ahead here); I wish there was an all-wheel drive version; I wish the CD player would display the elapsed time WHILE a CD is playing (a strange complaint, I know, but it's kind of essential for me).
I too have long-term reliability questions about the 9-5 (specifically the aero and the 4-cyl HOT engine). Also, I've asked dealers when the next generation 9-5 is expected to appear and they mostly say 'not for 3 or 4 years'. But then, what do they know?
Good Luck.
regarding prices: you can expect to negotiation to about 31,000-32,000 for a linear, 34,000 for an arc and 36,000 for an Aero. That is about 15% below MSRP. When I bought my car, it was at the end of the 2001 year, with the post 9/11 incentives...I paid 30,500.
I have heard minimal problems with the HOT and V6 engines. LPT seems to have a propensity to blow turbos.
Here are the answers to your questions:
1. No
2. 2005
3. Something like that. The second number represents the size classification.
4. Yes. 2005.
5. Most I have heard from have had nothing but good things to say. Not sure, the next platform will be shared with the CTS. Reliability has been rather good since 1999 on the 9-3, but the new model is a good question. New engine, totally new body, etc...
6. On a current model, yes. On one of the new 9-3's, not sure. Only time will tell. If sales dramatically increase, look for Saab to discontinue incentives.
7. SmartBuy or Lease is a great idea right now. It would probably be good for you, if you have never owned a Saab before.
8. No (9-5), Yes (9-3). The cup holder on the 9-5 is lightyears better than the piece of **** in the 9-3. Saab has heard us and made the appropriate changes to the 9-3 and it looks very promising.
9. Torque steer is more prevalent in the automatic transmission versions of the 9-3, but barely noticable in the 9-5. With the manual, you can easily control the power to the wheels thereby making it almost unnoticeable. As for road connection, the Aero is the best of the three. The Linear model is a little numb but not as bad as a Camry/ES300.
I have driven the BMW 3 Series and it definitely is a driving machine. Saabs are very well balanced, but they are a few points behind BMW. That may change with the new 9-3, as it has gone to a fully independent rear suspension. I guess what narrowed things down was the price. I got a 9-3 SE with the manual transmission for $27800. I have the same performance as a BMW 330i for about $9000 less.