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Lots of people have the impression that the resale on a Saab is awful. Maybe not. Its all in how it is measured. Maybe the resale on Saabs isn't really that bad or even any different from other sedans in its segment if measured as a percent of the actual purchase price not the MSRP. Lots of German cars go out the door for the full Moroney. No discounts. Most people get into a Saab at a hefty discount off list price or in subvented lease (how else do you get to lease a 40K car for $400 per month?). Now three years later when you compute the used Saab's resale/residual value, if you do it against the actual purchase price, not some fictious list price that no one ever pays, it may well be as good as that of a BMW. In other words they both lose about the same percentage over the three years from their original acquisition costs. The only difference is that the BMW factory/dealer pricing strategy is to have a firm list price and Saab's is to have an inflated list price. The former sells the sizzle, the latter sells the deal.
Now the negative. Having said all this, Saab's present problems are its own fault. The present box that Saab finds itself in is the result of poor marketing and product planning. Poor marketing let Volvo take away its position as THE Scandanavian front wheel drive winter vehicle and poor product planning have left it as the one of the few import lines without an AWD wagon. Given where Saab was 25 years ago, this is crazy. Saab OWNED this market but let it just get taken away. Saab's only solution (with the exception of the plan to rebadge some GM Trailblazers!) is to discount the hell out of the product and market the deal, not the car.
Take the Aero. It is undersupported by the factory. Supposedly, the Aero is Bob Lutz' personal ride. If the word ever got out that Lutz who could drive any car in the GM stable, drives an Aero, that would move some iron. (Two middle aged car nuts in a bar: "Hey, I just got an Aero, you know like Bob Lutz. It goes like hell and I'm going to take it up to Stowe this weekend instead of Anne's V70 wagon".) But, no. Lets just hype a new lease program. Additonally, Saab has seen to it that there is no aftermarket parts suppliers for enthusiasts, no aftermarket enthusist's magazines similar to the 10 or so you can find on a a good news stand for BMW and the two or three magazines devoted to Audi, and just no real juice to get some of the young Bimmer crowd interested in even a test drive. (Quick: where could a young guy buy some drilled pedals for his Aero? Stiffer shocks? Maybe even some Recaro's?)
Maybe as the host suggested earlier, Suburu is the new Saab and the kindest, gentlest thing GM could do is just fold Saab into Suburu as their funky, imported car line. The anti-BMW car line.
But they should be OK. It'll throw off the speedo a little (less than 2%) as the new tire is physically larger than the old one.
I am just coming off a lease on an Audi A6 Avante. Comfortable and sure-footed in all weather but I don't want to buy it. Too many irksome design flaws and a surprising number of recalls. The service department also tuned me off.
I see a few comments about snow tires. Are they really necessary? Even the dealer mentioned that they would probably be needed on the Aero. After this winter in NJ, I don't want to think about snow again.
Any advice on purchasing a pre-owned Saab? Any experience on how much the dealer can move on the listed price?
I'm also considering a Subaru Outback H6 sedan. Has anyone else taken a look at them?
Question1= is this a good value?
Question2= for about the same dough I can get a new Accord V-6 (without navigation). What would u do?
Our Linear did fine with the regular tires in Chicago last winter; my sister lives in western Michigan which gets a lot of lake-effect snow - her SE did fine with regular tires.
The Subaru H6s are nice, I'm betting if you drive both you'll pick the 9-5.
There's no comparison between a 9-5 and an Accord. Driving dynamics and safety alone put the 9-5 on a whole 'nuther level than most any Asian sedan. Not everyone appreciates this and its OK if you don't. There's a good reason why a bland, soulless car like a Camry is a perpetual #1 seller.
I stopped by a dealer once and asked about used ones - I am in North East. He said you either get heated seats or ventilated seats, but not both and the ventilated was a "warm weather package".
1. Is this true, you can only get one or the other?
2. What do you guys think of the ventilated seats and refrigerated glovebox? Do they work?
I began to research European sedans and was immediately drawn to the 9-5. The A-4 also seemed interesting but I simply preferred the 9-5 drive. Also looked at the passat but when adding in basic options, drove the price up to 9-5/A-4 levels. I know that by going the european route I will incur more maintenance and potential repair costs than my previous Japanese cars, I guess it is the cost of the fun. But I have heard some very mixed feedback on Saab reliability from local mechanics.
Almost all say go with just about any other car such as a volvo or audi because of their perceived better build and reliability. Reading these posts, all seem to be about the same with their fair share of horror and love stories for all the cars. Can anyone chime in with real life maintenance stories when the car goes out of warranty from 60k+. I love the car and the huge deprecation makes the 2000-2002 9-5 a steal at less than 50% of original price. A number of mechanics also suggested spending a little more and getting a BMW, they basically said although I would be getting fewer options for the price, great reliability. Any and all input would be much appreciated. I need a little help in making the leap from a lifetime of worry free japanese driving.
PS- CAN'T WAIT TO GO TO THE AERO ACADEMY IN GEORGIA.
That said, I'm kind of in the same position you are. I was very impressed by my short test drive in a 9-5 Aero but am still a little nervous about giving up the flawless reliability I have experienced with my Japanese cars.
Also, negotiate the cash back discount off of the invoice, not MSRP.
Dealers I've spoken with confirm there are incentives. Every Sunday the Chicago Tribune also lists the $4,000 Aero and Arc incentive right there with the Linear.
They DO exist.
where are the GM Incentives posted?
Thanks
Do a net search for GMfamilysavings.com or something like that.
Supposedly "Everybody knows" that the resale is awful on a Saab. But maybe the actual used car buyers don't know that.
When you compare on Edmunds the resale prices of comparable Saab and Volvo models (e.g., Aero vs. T5, etc.) they are within $200 with Saab often being higher! Sure maybe the initial MSRP of the Saab is higher, but no Saab buyer pays MSRP. After the usual significant discounting, a new Saab is roughly the same price as a less-agressively discounted Volvo. Three years later this parity persists.
Where is the bad Saab resale? Maybe only in the eye of the fools who compute it from MSRP, not actual purchase price?
What did I miss?
These are same discounts available to the general public. This site will list Linear incentive, but not Aero or Arc.
So, the $4000 cash back is real but they're not really publicizing it. Can someone tell me what the point of a sales incentive is if no one knows about it. Is this just another brilliant marketing move by GM? I for one would not be able to be considering a 9-5 at $40K. If I hadn't stumbled in here and heard people were getting them for low $30s, I wouldn't even have looked at the Saab. How many more potential buyers is GM missing?
The idea behind dealer cash is to offer a way to sell cars without reducing brand equity. But since we all know that SAAB's are heavily subsidized, will it work at this point? Why not at this point reduce MSRP and call it even?
this is about 60 % wear. but in about another 5m miles i will need to get tires,the thread wear is only 3/32 away.
currently i have the oea michelin mmx.
thinking of going to the goodyear f1 tire.
has anyone tried this tire as yet ????
and if so --results ????
the tire rack customer poll states that it is 100 % better than the michelins on my car.
quieter ,
longer lasting ?????????
better in the wet.
but,most of the 9.5 and aero owners tell that the mmx only gave them 15 to 22,000 miles were i am in the 60,000 range by the time i re-tire.
i think it has to do with ny inflation pressures of 41 front and 39 rear.
anyhow,i would appreciate any feedback on the goodyear from saab owners as there is none on tire rack.
thank you.
ff
Oh yeah...seats. Just set it on "1" and forget about it. You won't even notice it's on. You'll just be very, very comfortable. If you forget to turn it on and get sweaty, then you'll have to crank it up, experience rapid evaporation, and notice the cold and noise of the fan. Of course, if it's that hot out, other fans in the car will be louder.
Intelligently used, it's like a good non-steroidal agent. All of a sudden, you just notice that your knees don't hurt anymore. You just feel normal...not in pain, not sick to your stomach with side effects. Just normal. Quiet relief.
Gotta hand it to those Swedes. Who'd think that folks in a cool climate would put this into a car.
Best,
Greg '03 Arc Wagon newbie
The idea came from back when they were part of the Aircraft Division. It was a feature commonly used in Fighter Jets. Not sure what company or who invented it though.
Saab was the first to put cool things like this in cars but companies like BMW eventually copy them and make everyone believe they were the clever ones to think of the idea. Heated Seats is another good example of this. Self Leveling Head Lights? I think that might be a Saab original too but admit I'm not positive about that.
Drew
Obviously the larger 9-5 has clear advantages in comfort. There's no hatchback like on a 9-3 but there are wagon versions available and the sedans are very flexible haulers.
Having driven both I think the 9-5 is a "more together" car - better chassis, steering, brakes, etc. Also the 9-5 is a better long distance tourer. If you plan to drive long distances, carry lots of people, or have a long commute, the 9-5 is a winner.
Both cars are very safe and have performed well in crash tests. In 1999 (IIRC) Euro NCAP said the 9-5 was the safest car they'd ever tested. So I think the 9-5 has an edge in safety.
As for years, the newer the better. Saab has worked on its bugs aggressively and the '00 models are better than the '99's. In '01 the 9-5 won the JD Power award for highest consumer satisfaction for a new car.
Good luck with your decision.
I did some pretty thorough research on tires that fit the Aero, not really wanting to come up with the cash to buy the rim combos, though they weren't a bad deal, and not really wanting to give up the performance the Michelins gave. I settled on the Sumitomo HTR+ and feel like I lucked out. It's a bit softer, but not that much and it is absolutely great in snow and ice. I have about 6000 on them now and great wear so far.
The dealer informed me right away that I was in for a change when the foul weather came and then unbelievably told me that a number of his custys kept the Prim's on last winter. Yes it was an easy winter. But I will tell you this - driving the Aero with the Mich's in winter, even with all of the wonderful safety devices that come with the car, is like taking an out of control saucer ride down the toboggan slide. I know you northern folks know what I'm talking about.
Love the car.
Thanks in advance for any advice,
-Jay
I looked at another used Maxima but decided it was time for a change. I was considering a 2001 fully loaded V6 Accord for $17,500, but saw and test drove a 2000 Saab 9-5SE and really liked it. I can get into the SE with 30,000 miles for slightly under $20,000 and am comparing it to the Accord and Maxima. My questions (and concerns) are as follows:
1) The obvious question is reliability. I am a big Consumer Reports advocate and I saw they bumped the reliability up from average to above average. It seems to be based on reliability improvements (especially electrical) made after the 1999 model year. Do most owners agree with that assumption? I plan on putting about 150,000 miles on it and have no fear of that number with Nissan or Honda, but do most of you expect to get 150,000 miles without major problems?
2) The second question is also related to reliability and cost of repairs. I have had two people tell me that if something goes wrong, it will be much more expensive to fix then if it were a similar item on a Japanese car. Is this true?
3) I read something about the tires being performance tires that should only be used in good weather. I'm not sure if that's true for the SE or only the Aero.
4) What kind of gas is used in the 2000 SE? Regular or premium? If it's premium, with the mileage I put on, I need to factor that in to my higher monthly payments
5) I also saw a 2001 9-5 SE through a Saab dealer on the internet that I could pick up for around $21,000. Were there any real differences between the 2000 and 2001? This dealer is about two and a half hours away from me, but I would make the drive if the car not just newer in years, but also look and/or reliability.
Thanks in advance for any answers you can give me.
(2) Yes. In general European cars will be more expensive to repair due to the cost of parts.
(3) The SE uses 16" touring tires whereas the Aero 17" performance. Any of the cars you mentioned will benefit from a top quality tire which will be priced accordingly.
(4) Gotta use premium due to the turbo motor. Also most Saab owners highly recommend using full synthetic motor oil (like Mobil One or similar) to protect the engine and the turbo from the added heat. Saab recommends at least a semi synthetic oil but you'll find full synthetics of better quality.
(5) No real diffs between '00 and '01. The 9-5 received a major makeover in '02. But the general consensus is the newer the 9-5, the better and more reliable it is.
Happy Saab shopping :-)
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/faq/service/ma.html
-Jay
my experience with the aero 2000 has been so-so.
new computer 4 times ,new fan for the motor,left me stranded .....
and other.about 6 other failures.
now ,at 51,000 miles ,(4 weeks ago or so ) my dealer told me that i needed a new exhaust,have an oil leak from the head gasket,and need a new cowl......
he waited until i was out of warranty.......but,i think this dealer's mechanics are on a commision basis and ........took the car to a gas station and put it up......
the exhaust has rust on the outer layer.but it should give me another 2 years or so.but a good aftermarket ss unit is 300.$.
the oil leak nowhere to be found.......
the cowl.........i cannot see why it needs replacement ,maybe one of you experts can tell me.
my tires ,michelin mxm pilots ,with 52,000 miles have only 3/32 left out of 10/32 when new,or another 6,000 miles or so.--the car has 58,000 miles now but i run snow tires when i amin ct. in the winter.
i am looking to replace them soon and posted here about the goodyear f1 but no one has replied.
so,if you are asking ----to choose between a honda,acura or toyota and saab. with 2 years of use.......
i will go with
honda
toyota camry
acura
and forget saab.........too many unknowns on this car and poor reputation from those who know,the mechanics.....
or,i tell you what ,go to consumers union and check on the ratings.but remember,the saab rating is based on year to date........look at back issues and you will see that in the past saab have been very poor and now,is the promise that saab is now better.......
maybe,but it is a gamble and if you have limited income to gamble ,go to honda or toyota camry or lexus 300es-------
you cannot go wrong here. but ,i am not recommending,just giving you my objective view,ande suggest that you go to past issues of c.u.--they have excellent data.
look at it this way, if you have a good car the warranty isn't a big deal, you are covered for 50k. you can shop around for a gm warranty in the mean time, from what i understand.
legitimate issues we have had, are rear seat heaternot working, and sid losing columns a couple of times, headlight bulbs burning out(drive in and they are replaced).
another issue(resolved) that maybe was just a moneymaker.
regrding winter driving, the tc works, but it's not like a 4wd system. snow tires will definetly help, so buy a tire\wheel package, if you are going to keep the car. it probably cheaper in the long run, and will keep your wheels looking good.
if you post what state you live in, maybe you can get some feedback on the dealer.
from what i understand, another resource is saabnet.com
Has anybody had similar problems? Is this the start of a downhill trend?
Thanks.
More info at saabnet - search for di cassette
While no one is happy with their DI failures, it doesn't necessarily represent a trend towards failure of a bunch of other parts.
Other common problems on the 9-5's are faulty turbo's producing a light smoke at start up, and faulty LED's in the information display.