Saab 9-5 Sedan

rfellman2 · November 2000

Do you like to drive for fun or do you like to show drive so you can show off your socio-economic status.

The Lexus is an OK car but I never looked at Lexus when I purchased a 9-5 SE and 9-3 in 1999 and 1998 respectively. SAAB wooed me with its torque, its utility, its safety and its design (comfortable seats, cargo capacity, cockpit). The SAABs just stirred my soul and excited me unlike the Audis, BMWs and Volvos I test drove.

As for value, you can not beat year end close out deals on SAABs.

The fact that you are torn between a Lexus and a SAAB tells me you want the SAAB but feel the call of the majority beckoning you to select the quality leader like a lemming heading over an Icelandic cliff.

If you plan to trade or sell in two to three years, sure buy the high demand Lexus, but if you are committed to a long term relationship with an ageless car that will grow on you like a leather jacket, get the SAAB. If you already test drove the 9-5 and you still are undecided, buy the Lexus because you "lost that loving feeling" for SAAB and it is that fanatical love of SAABs that makes SAAB owners so loyal to the brand.

bg10 · November 2000

I have a question for those who have damaged their 17 inch wheels and destroyed their more then slightly expensive tires when they hit pot holes. The question is: What kind of tire pressure are you folks running?

Right now I'm running 40psi for normal driving with 1 to 2 people in the car and I'm wondering if I should be running more. I realize 40 is above Saab's recommendations, but I don't mind trading off a harsher ride for a noticeable increase in handling, fuel mileage and tire life. As higher pressure also helps preserve tires and wheels when hitting holes, I'm wondering if I shouldn't increase it. Any comments?

new2leasing · November 2000

Bret....looks like you've done and lived with your homework. I am new to leasing and have some questions! I am looking at the 2001 9-5, 2.3t. I am getting the "loyalty cash", but not sure if that is a dealer trick (like it could have been negotiated anyway). The two dlrs I am talking too are basically giving me the same deal. One is $2675 down (incl tax) and 511/mo 36 mos and the other is about 3100 down, 485/mo 36 mos. Both lease deals are for 15k mi. Are there other points of the lease that I can negotiate? I am in Los Angeles, the tax rate here is 8.25.

Thanks/Mike

fz8893 · November 2000

I have a 99 with 15k on it and it is now blowing heater air with the smell somewhere between wet socks (used) and sour milk. Just hoping someone has dealt with this problem and resolved it.Pl ease feel free to e-mail with any ideas...Thanks

ffb13 · November 2000

the manual tells you to increase tire pressure to prevent damage to the wheels.
i keep mine at 38 psi all around but still had a blow-out.there is no way to prevent it.--it all depends on what you hit---the speed---and the angle at which you hit it.
on a long trip i have gone to 42 psi.and it is comfortable.
but,if your car is not loaded you will wear out the center of the tire faster than at lower air pressures and prematurely.
the air pressure is determined by your load factor
and speed.

bg10 · November 2000

ffb13, thanks for the info, I will try to watch out for trouble. Thankfully I live where it doesn't freeze that often or that hard and pot holes are not much of a problem.

By the bye, I have kept my tire pressure above the manufactures recommended pressure, usually 5 lbs. or more, for many years. I have never worn out a tire in the center before the edges. This could be partially because I drive hard but I suspect it has more to do with steel belts. Bias ply tires deformed a lot under pressure and over inflation would chew them up in a hurry. Good steel belted radials, are much more tolerant of higher air pressures. I suspect that the idea that higher then recommended air pressure wears out the center of the tire faster is more myth hanging on from the bias ply days than reality.

ffb13 · November 2000

WEAR due to overinflation,in the center is a fact.
i too have always kept my tire press. above rec.
specially in s class mb.
and,i do wear out the center first. i get about 18,000 miles out of michelins.
mxx---many years ago up to the new mxv4's

russ8128 · November 2000

As with any car purchase/lease you should begin and end all discussion on how much you (or the leasing company) are paying for the car (captialized cost = purchase price). $500 over invoice or less is usually considered a good deal. Use the internet sites (like edmunds) to get the invoice for the car you are interested and go to dealer with a reasonable figure for the car. Negotiate on that number without informing them on your choice of financing. Once you have finalized the price, discuss leasing the car with the capitalized cost set at the price you negotiated. This usually works for me and allows me to have the upper hand. Also, have you tried any leasing companies in your area. Here in NY-Long Island I found several that were very aggressive with their terms (all used Saab Financial). I used one of their numbers to get the dealer to meet it. It worked for me and gave me a very good starting point.

dski · November 2000

>i get about
18,000 miles out of michelins.<

You guys were leaving me scratchin my head with all these psi recommendations. It just didn't make any sense to me and goes against everthing I've been told.

18K? - Now I know I'm doing the right thing. If I only got 18K out of a set of tires, I would be very upset. With the vehicle I use for business that would mean almost two sets per year! I've always followed vehicle manufacturers recommendations and aside from one minivan I had, I always got close to 40K before replacing tires. However, I don't have the Aero wheels and tires. I realize 40K would not be possible with those types of tires.

Drew

rtd1 · November 2000

I don't have any particular insight w/ the 9-5, but that doesn't prevent idle speculation.

You might have a clogged drain leading from the AC evaporator or heater core. Acccumulated moisture can create mildew which could cause the smell you describe. On the 9000, the well that contains the evaporator also houses the cabin air filter. This well accumulates a lot of crap--leaves, bugs, mice, etc. I'm assuming the 9-5 has a similar setup--with the well hidden under one of the panels at the base of the windshield.

Find and clear any system drain tubes, locate and clean out the cabin air filter compartment. If that doesn't work, the dealer or an AC shop can decontaminate the system, which usually clears up the problem.

If the smell is noticeably sweet, you have a coolant leak somewhere in the system, which would be a warranty item (it's worth keeping an eye on your coolant level, just in case).

bg10 · November 2000

Tires are an interesting subject. The current Michelin MXX3 has a UTQG wear rating of 140. 18,000 mi. is about right for hard driving with that kind of tire. 18,000 mi. however is not good on an MXV4 which has a wear rating of 400. High performance tires usually use a softer grippier rubber which wears quicker than the harder rubber used for touring tires.

Inflation pressure also affects handling and it used by manufacturer to adjust a cars handling. On one extreme, Ford used very low pressure to cure a rollover problem with the Explorer. The low pressure let the tire break away before before generating enough force to cause rollover. It also caused overheating and failure of the tires. More commonly front and rear tire pressures differentials are used to tune the handling or compensate for the difference in handling between partial and full load. Another adjustment used by manufactures is lower pressure for a smoother ride at light loads and higher pressure to keep the tires from overheating at high speed or high load.

The lower temperature at high pressure is due to less internal friction in the tire. This is where the increased fuel mileage with higher inflation pressures comes in, less internal friction equals lower rolling resistance. The better handling is due to tread squirm, the higher pressure keeps the tread blocks from closing up.

Part of the problem with tire/wheel damage on the Aero is due to the tires. The MXM Michelin they come with are designed for high performance (soft rubber) with a smooth ride (soft side walls). This leads to a tire that probably won't last longer than 18,000 mi. and is susceptible to damage from pot holes, etc. Increasing the inflation pressure will partially compensate for the soft sidewalls though and minimize pot hole problems.

Hope this helps.

bmwjoe · November 2000

bg10

Thanks for posting a well thaought out and informative note.

Joe

dhanley · November 2000

Finding a clogged drain is the real solution. What i've done as a quick fix is to turn the fan on, about medium, and get out of the car, open the hood, and spray quit a bit of lysol in the intake vents at the back of the engine compartment.

The lysol should kill the mold and bacteria in the system making the smell.

i do think it's weird that the air intake draws air from the engine compartment. Not the best in stop-and-go traffic.

We got 40K miles out of out mxv4 tires. It should have been 30K miles, though.

dave

ffb13 · November 2000

how about 5500 miles out of a set of tires on an nsx,
or,8500 on a 911.

it all depends on the tire compound. the stickier the tire the softer it is and the less wear.

driving habits also influence the wear.

ejh00 · November 2000

Anyone know if it's possible to see the time display for a CD in the 9-5 SE's sound system? Most players these days allow for track or time display, and when you fast forward it does appear. In this Harmon Kardon system it defaults to track only, with no apparent alternative. This might seem like a small thing, but is there a programming option (that 's not in the manual) that would let me see the elapsed time?

dski · November 2000

Yes I do realize that higher performance tires have poor tread life. That's why I indicated in my post that I really couldn't speak to the tires used on the Aero.

My opinion: I can understand the trade off on a limited use vehicle such as an NSX or 911; however, now that we are seeing more high performance designs on "Every Day" type sedans I would think average customers would be very upset with such short tire life. As long as a customer is well informed in advance,(LOL, who do I sound like now?) I guess it's fine but I sure would prefer a longer lasting tire with acceptable performance on my every day car.

Drew

ffb13 · November 2000

i can only agree with you.
to my surprise my aero tires have about 19,000 miles on them and it looks that they only have about 35 % wear---not too bad for this tire. i had thought that 18,000 miles was the limit for this tire.

pdeckert · November 2000

I recently bought one of the remaining 2000 model 9-5 (2.3t) sedans and enjoy its handling and performance here in the north-east. The car has seen some demonstrator use, and I found some signs of early wear and tear. I am concerned about the dealer service up here and the car's reliability under northern driving conditions - partly based on customer internet responses.

Although the car's manual recommends oil changes at 16,000 km intervals, the dealer recommended service every 8,000 km. In addition, I was given to understand that Consumers Union downgraded the car's reliability - previously "outstanding."

I would be very interested in hearing opinions of other customers, especially those located up north. Thanks and best regards - Peter

dski · November 2000

With today's oil and engine technology, following the manual on oil change intervals should be fine but I prefer changing around 5,000 miles, 8,000 km?. (Here in the mid west we don't use metric)

Todays oils will hold up fine for the longer intervals but my concern is more about debris such as metal flakes that will be present by waiting to change at a longer interval.

I'm not sure what types of "early wear" your refering to but ours is almost 2 years old with over 20,000 miles and everything is holding up as expected or better than expected so far. But we have been the only owners and it's always garaged.

We probably aren't in a climate as cold as yours but we certainly are in a colder climate and consider the 9-5 to be a great cold climate car. If a cold climate car is what you wanted I think you chose well. Remember, in Sweden & Findland (where they do use the metric system and have tons of Saabs) it's much colder. These cars were built for their brutal conditions.

Good Luck to you.
Drew

cbruk · November 2000

I have been looking at the 9-5SE and Aero and am wondering about the reliability (I had a 900T way back and cost me a fortune). Haven't seen anything on problems on here. Is that because there aren't any, or just wrong thread? Any info much appreciated.

pdeckert · November 2000

Thanks for your response, Drew!

I heard about the ECU problems, but I got the impression that they affected essentially cars made for the US market - and showed up primarily in hot and humid weather conditions. Is this correct? I currently reside in Newfoundland, part of Atlantic Canada. I wonder whether the 2000 model was affected - and when these problems were corrected by Saab?

I have driven in the Scandinavian countries; mostly Volvo rental cars, but also a base Saab 9-5. Fortunately, they have better dealer service networks, and it would appear that parts availability and service costs are better than on our side of the pond. I believe there is room for improvement here, and hopefully GM will take the initiative.

As far as the Consumers Union reliability ratings are concerned, they tend to be pretty accurate. For instance, we also have a Toyota 4-Runner Limited - not much fun to drive, but absolutely reliable under our rather severe driving conditions. The only problem we had were warped disks, which were promptly replaced under warranty.

I hope that our experience with our new 2000 Saab 9-5 (2.3t) will turn out just as positive. It certainly is fun to drive hard...

I look forward to further comments. Thanks and regards - Peter

ffb13 · November 2000

you want reliability,then buy a honda or a toyota camry.
as far as saab is concerned,they rate poorly in this area going back many years.
but,the new ones seem to have improved.i own an aero and so far ,20,000 miles it has not let me down. but,saabs are known for massive failures after 60,000 miles.
we will see

dealsrme · November 2000

sorry i'm so late in responding to your post. the last half of november has been busy and kept me away from the site. if you haven't bought a car yet, let me offer my 2 cents;

1)don't listen to anyone who talks asthetics. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. you'll have to make that call on your own.
2)you can also ignore those that talk about the saab as if the uniqueness of the car is all the reason you need to buy it. at the risk of sounding like a saab sales brochure; 'real' saab owners buy into the saab philosophy. unfortunately, there are plenty of folks that buy a saab so they can make a contrarian statement about themselves based on the car's reputation. these are not 'real' saab owners. being different just for the sake of being different is just as mindless as doing something because everyone else does.
3) the lexus is a ringing endorsement of japanese engineering. it is a fine car but, as a saab owner, i couldn't imagine myself in a lexus. the two cars may both be classified as entry level luxury sedans, but they are worlds apart (no pun intended)in design and operationl philosphy. they are not comparable cars in my mind.

the reason 'saab-o-philes' exist, and they do, is because of the automotive nuances that you'll become aware of after spending time in a saab. as i said above, these nuances are not a reason in and of themselves to buy the car but, realize the car is different and determine if those differences suit you. i personally would highly recommend a saab purchase.

if all of this sounds too esoteric, please feel free to disregard it.

good luck!

rbr · November 2000

I finally picked up my 9-5 this morning (Sun green, tan interior). Car looks absolutely perfect -- as I am in Minnesota, I'd better enjoy the exterior while I can because we're in the snowy season and its just a matter of days/hours before the car is covered in snow, sand and road salt.

Thanks to Julie at Countryside Saab in Maplewood, MN for all the assistance. I must have visited the dealership at least 6 times, and Julie was always very positive and helpful, especially the day I spent a good hour and a half driving around with her checking for the fuel tank "thunking" problem (I never really heard it, as I said when I posted on this topic a while ago).

The first thing I did was to adjust the amplifier volume as explained by SMU1976 in post #214 -- the stereo gets REALLY loud during the adjustment, but (just as SMU said) mine was at the default of 9 or 10 and I raised it to 25. It helps a bit to turn down the standard bass and treble controls during the adjustment period to take the "edge" of the noise. As predicted, the volume adjusts back down in about 8-10 seconds and sounds much richer (dont forget to return your bass and treble controls to neutral after the adjustement). I wonder why Saab sets the default at 9 or 10 when it has such an obvious effect on the sound?

I'm looking forward to going through the owner manual of my new "toy" and I'll try out the OnStar
system on the way home tonight! (Geez, thats a "toy" within a "toy"....)

mlgtx · November 2000

My wife and I recently concluded an exhaustive (and exhausting) 3 month car search. Since I utilized quite a bit of the information posted on this site I think I owe it to others to post my conclusions and hopefully aid others in their decision-making process. So here it goes:

My wife and I recently had our first child and felt the urge to sell/trade our Inifiniti G20 and purchase a larger, "safer" vehicle, i.e. more safety features. We already own an SUV so we felt that the proper replacement car would be a mid-sized "entry-level luxury" class car. The vehicles we compared from this class included the base models of the Infiniti I30, Volvo S70 and S80, Lexus ES300, Audi A6 and the Saab 9-5.

Although the I30 was a very roomy vehicle with nice amenities and the least expensive of the lot, we were so disappointed by the "soft" market price (as the Infiniti salesman had warned us) for our Infiniti that we felt it would be unwise to purchase another Infiniti and suffer the same fate down the road. On top of that we felt the I30 was rather ordinary and derivative in design (to quote Edmund's review of the car). And although the commercials for the car would lead one to believe otherwise, the car wasn't all that quick considering it had 225 hp. And to top it off, I hate FAKE WOOD!

We ruled out the Lexus because we felt it was nearly comparable to the I30 but was grossly overpriced, at least it was not worth 4-5k more than the I30. Besides, we felt that "everyone" owns a ES300 and did not want to follow the pack.

We ruled out the S70 largely because it was already an outdated and obsolete design, having been replaced by the S60 by the time we had commenced our search. But that having been said, there were some really goods deals available.

The base model A6 by far had the most luxurious of interiors, but my wife despised the design of the car's backside, and I was not impressed enough with the car performance to be willing to pay, in my opinion, Audi's rather lofty pricetag.

So, we came down to the S80 and 9-5, the two cars that we felt were the most highly rated "safety" choices among our group I researched both cars rather extensively, including the sharply polarized views of those folks posting on this site concerning both cars. We were so torn when it came down to our final decision that we chose to test drive the S80 over to the Saab dealership and compare them head-to head. We both agreed that the Volvo, notwithstanding its FAKE WOOD(!!) interior, had a more luxurious and somewhat roomier interior, but we preferred the Saab's quickness and the Saab's sportier interior design and driving experience(including the 5spd manual transmission, which Volvo does not offer in its base model). The other most influential factor was Consumer Reports having given the S80 a very low reliability rating (I am not surprised having spent some time reading the S80 postings on this website).

We have owned our 9-5 for almost one month and we both love the car. We are very pleased with our decision. We have not had any "fuel thunk" problems or "ECU" problems and we have received excellent service from our dealer, which unfortunately is the only Saab dealer in Houston, which all along has made us a bit uncomfortable about the Saab. Nonetheless, we feel it was worth the risk.

Having said all of that, I don't think anyone could go wrong with any of the cars we tested. We chose the Saab b/c we felt it had the best combination of safety features, price, "sportiness", interior luxury, uniqueness of design, fuel efficiency and dealer service.

I could probably drone on with data and statistics but I will refrain.

dski · December 2000

Yes, what is the deal with "fake wood"? A pet pieve of mine. My brother recently purchased the S80 and I was amazed when I first rode in it and saw the Fake Wood. Not only is it fake but it looks absolutely awful! I've seen fake stuff in some cars that actually look fairly good so I never understood why some look so bad. What's most puzzling, the fake I've seen that looks best has been in less expensive cars while the worst has been in expensive rides. Strange, very strange.

Drew

rollie · December 2000

Regarding post #364:

dski, actually the real wood in the S80 looks very similar to the fake wood (I've got the real wood in my '99 S80 T6 so I know). In general, real wood these days usually looks pretty fake or plastic like in appearance. This is due primarily to safety considerations. I'm not sure if there is a regulation or if it was voluntary but most manufacturers have resulted to highly lacquered wood in order to prevent splinters in accidents. The result is that more and more real wood looks shiny like plastic. I'm beginning to think less wood (and more carbon fiber, brushed aluminum, etc._) is better with the exception of true luxo cruisers like the S Class and LS430. Just my opinion.

Thanks.

-rdo
rdollie@home.com

naplegalesusa · December 2000

I just received in the mail(November 30, 2000) the recall notice to replace the ECM in my 2000 Saab 9-5 Aero.

The recall notice categorized the recall as "emissions related." The notification said that sulphur, in the rubber mountings for the printed circuit, may cause a chemical reaction that may damage the electronics in the ECM.

The anticipated replacement time, according to the notification, is approximately 20 minutes.

Believe me, after having replaced many major components on my 1999 S-80, except the engine itself, this MINOR recall doesn't even register
on my radar.

By the way, as far as I can tell, my Aero has shown no ECM related problems after 10,000. No squeaks, rattles, very tight.

romni · December 2000

Has anyone out there experienced low gas mileage w/ a 9-5? I bought a '99 - granted, auto transmission - but seem to consistently run around 15-17 mpg in city driving. Could this be related to ECM issues? Other than this concern, I continue to enjoy this car (except perhaps a bit more road noise than I'd prefer). I appreciate any input (Drew?).

rtd1 · December 2000

Yes, this absolutely could be evidence of an ECM problem.

Which engine do you have? If I absolutely flog my V6 ('99) the worst mileage it gets is still in the high teens. Additional things to check for might be clogged air filter or exhaust (unlikely) or a dragging brake.

If you have the LPT 4 automatic I'd think you should be getting in the low to mid 20s in town and low 30s on the highway. You should also calculate the actual mileage the old-fashioned way, because the EDU could be off as well.

Good luck.

mlgtx · December 2000

Has anyone taken advantage of the cell phone "pre-wiring" in the 9-5 and installed an integrated unit? I asked my dealer about it and they told me that although they have yet to receive such a request they beleive the cost was up to $900 for equipment and installation and that only Nokia phones are compatible. Anyone have any info. to the contrary?

Thanks

eieio1 · December 2000

I am planning on getting my car wired for my Startac. My dealer told me that all I have to do is buy the Motorola hands free kit which they will wire to the SAAB system. I wasn't planning on spending $900 myself, so I too an looking for some insight on this.

Doug

dski · December 2000

I don't believe you'll be spending $900. I have not elected to wire mine at this point since I use a different vehicle for work: however, my understanding is that the cost includes: The Phone, the car kit for the phone (Nokia's is around $150), a plug or wiring of some sort from Saab at approximately $12, and labor from your saab dealer (maybe an hour or two labor). Assuming you already have the phone, my guess is that you'll be spending another $200 to $300.

FWIW, I have used systems similar to the Saabs, ironically I just spoke to someone this morning using one, and I think they are GREAT. If the Saab were my work vehicle, there is NO question that I'd have it installed.

Hope this helps.
Drew

davekovacs1 · December 2000

A cautionary note about wiring a cell phone into the 9-5. Prior to the inclusion of the Onstar system as standard feature there were definitely some issues to keep in mind when installing a phone with a pre-MY2001 Onstar system on board. Specifically if you wanted to use the auto mute functions etc. Also, it appears you can not utilize the Onstar antennae mass on the 2001 for a 3rd party cell phone. There is much conversation and user experience about this on Saabnet. It might be helpful to take a look at that site too.

Regards,

Dave Kovacs

smu1976 · December 2000

I tried the cell phone hard wire, with a Nokia.
No luck. Had the hard wire harness put in by Saab, then to ATT shops to connect to the nokia.
Three shops could not do it. They could not figure out the Saab wiring and how to connect to the Nokia. Lost out on about $250.00 in labor and parts. My 92 9000 Griffen came with the Nokia installed and its great when it works. Radio goes down when phone rings, speaker and mike built in. But the cell phone models change so frequently now that it is does not match. If someone got it done, help me. I have a harness of wires under the dash with no home.

kwando · December 2000

Has SAAB extended its leasing program that was to expire on November 30?

jim3039 · December 2000

My search for a mid-sized sedan has narrowed to the Audi A6 2.8 and the Saab 9-5. The S80 was a top contender for a long time, but the complaints posted on Edmunds along with what I find to be a boring interior, have placed it at a distant third. Therefore, I am on the fence between the Saab and the Audi. Can anyone familiar with the virtues of both cars shed their point-of-view on the decision I am wresting with?

Thanks,
Jim

smu1976 · December 2000

I liked the style of the Audi more, fantastic interior. Also think the Audi fit and finish may be superior. Saab had more power though and really was about 5 grand less than the A6. Yes, MSRP are very close, but Audi does not deal as much as Saab. At least I could not get a good deal on an A6 or an Avant. Saab leases are hard to beat. After 14 months with a V6 SE, I have had only one service call.

evilpancakewom · December 2000

It seems like European cars, with the cost of them should be reliable. That of course is just an opinion. I love the design and erogonomics(sp?) of the Saabs. But in the past and in the present it seems the reliability of the car isnt as good as other cars(excluding Japanese). A Volvo has just as many problems, but its usually with electronics, their engines, I must admit last a long time! (from past experience) Saabs are getting better with reliability due to GM taking over. I do want reliability in the car but I also want a good design, which most Japanese cars are bland(you go past them on the road and they look just like any other car). I have been considering a Saab, Volvo, Ford, and Chevy for the last several years! Right now I have a 1992 Camry with 160,000 miles on it with NO problems but its not a distinctive car nor a performance car. If Saab only had RWD instead of FWD I would have bought one by now! Ford is horrible with reliability but has RWD, and is worse than Chevy but the parts are cheaper when they need to be replaced(because there American. Volvo is slowly but surely making better designed cars and the reliability is going up but I prefer the Saab 9-5 design(etc). Anyway what Im asking is has anyone driven an American car compared to a Saab? Is it worth the difference and money? I'm sure ALL cars will have problems BUT expensive, and repeating problems, is not worth it.
Thanks for your comments,
Kevin

evilpancakewom · December 2000

Chevy more reliable than Ford
Audi more reliable than Saab
Audi more reliable than Volvo
Lexus more reliable than (hmm anyone?)

davekovacs1 · December 2000

First - -I must say your id is rather interesting and pretty darn unique.

What is an evilpancakewoman? ;-)

I have never really thought of driving any U.S. car for direct comparison purposes against the Saab 9-5. I guess the most likely cars to compare would be a Cadillac Catera (not a pretty package -but a newer and quoted 'nicer' ones debuts next year). Olsmobile has a possible offering to compare . . . however I honestly don't see a drastically similar U.S. car to compare.

I guess when it comes down to it - - the only person that can best determine if something is worth the money is the actual buyer. Most opinions expressed here are going to be highly polarized. It seems you like the Saab for its design and look . . . but only you can weight all your options, needs etc.

Good luck in your decision.

Regards,

Dave Kovacs

jim3039 · December 2000

Although I have not driven one during my search, I often see the Lincoln LS mentioned in many folks consideration set in this category. Given it has lots of similarities to the Jaguar S-Type, it may be a good U.S. comparison candidate in this category.

mlgtx · December 2000

Jim3039:

If you are truly down to 2 cars, you ought to test drive the Audi (sans salesperson) over to the Saab dealership, or vice versa, and compare them head-to-head. We did that (see my "Two Cents" post from last week) and it greatly assisted us in our final decision.

I agree with SMU1976. On similarly appointed cars, you will get a much better deal on the Saab than the Audi. We compared MY 2000 cars and the Saab was avaiable for about $4-5k less than the Audi.

For what its worth my suggestion to you is to GO WITH THE SAAB BABEEEE! I really enjoy mine. Good Luck.

rtd1 · December 2000

It was either R&T or C&D who did a sedan comparo that included the 9-5, the S80, the LS and the Aurora--so there's a pair of American cars to consider. The Catera was also mentionedand may be worth a look--I will only note that I've seen two sporting the SE's 5-spoke Ronal wheels (how weird is that?). IMHO the Lincoln is reasonably nice looking, but I didn't drive one when shopping.

The '99 model A6 was bog slow so I didn't have much of a problem discarding that option. A very nice car to be sure, and the only AWD option in the bunch. I'm certain I'd like driving a turbo A6. As to Audi reliability, go see their forums. It's absolutely clear that they suffer from far more engine problems than do Saabs. Saab's I4 is one of the stoutest engines in the industry.

davidgmills · December 2000

The 9-5 has proven to be very reliable with the exception of one flaw, the ECM, (sometimes called the ECU) known as the electronic control module or unit. The electronic control module controls most of the engine's electrical functions and when it is not operating correctly, the car runs very badly or not at all. Fortunately, Saab has finally figured out what the problem was with this electronic board; it was being corrupted by sulfur in the board's mounts. The Saab supplier of this board has agreed to replace them all and Saab has a pending recall on the ECM's. Failure did not occur usually till about 25,000 miles so the 9-5's inital quality was really high. Those who have had problems seem to have been satisfied with the latest version of the ECM, but unfortunately, the problem was not recognized soon enough by Saab, and a number of early 9-5 Saab owners bailed out, usually with Saab buying back their car. Needless to say, they were not happy campers. But most 9-5 owners, myself included, really do like their cars. I liked my 9-5 so well I bought 3 more Saabs: an old 9000, a new 9-3 and a new 9-5 wagon. I will say it took two tries to replace my ECM on my older 9-5 and I almost lost faith myself.

dski · December 2000

After reviewing the link I provided on Special Saab Lease and Purchase programs, I noticed that it is set up as a "Saab Loyalty" Program. It may not be available to those who aren't existing or previous Saab owners. Sorry for the confusion.

Drew

jim3039 · December 2000

I believe the offer featured in your link is valid to all buyers, Drew. Saw an ad in the LA Times over the weekend that offered same deal on the 9-5.

Regarding leasing, can anyone provide input on the approximate % residual Saab uses when calculating a lease. I'm trying to do the rough math on a lease for the SE and Aero.

saabee · December 2000

Been away for awhile, thought I'd jump in with my thoughts.

Much to my surprise, I've been driving in 3-5" of snow for the past few weeks on the stock Aero 225/45 - ZR17 Michelin Piolt's with 14K on them and have not experienced any difficulty. Along with the TCS and putting the automatic in the "winter mode" driving has not been one bit problematic.

Anyone had any problems with the stock tires in the snow or have you switched to snow tires? If you have switched, what's your experience?

pinochet99 · December 2000

I have had two head gaskets replaced on my 9.5.As well as I am on my 6 ECM plus 2 gas tanks.Has anyone had any problems similar to mine.I am trying to get away from this car as quickly as possible.I like the way the car rides and handles but feel it is going to be very expensive in the future because of poor quality control issues.Another important issue dealer told me thi is the worst car he sells .Dealer sells Audi,Porsche,Jaguar and SAAB.

jim3039 · December 2000

I'm trying to roughly figure out what a lease payment will be on 9-5 negotiated at approximately $38K. Does anyone know where Saab predicts residual value on the 9-5 after 3 or 4 years? Also, any ideas on the money factor they are currently using?

Saab 9-5 Sedan

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