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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Did the Prelude have ATTS? Got to experience the joy of torque steer for 10 days or so. Not going to get a FWD period.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Not sure about the ATTS (don't even know what it stands for). It did have a lot of torque steer, though. One corner really frightened me - I accelerated fast but smoothly out of the turn and before I knew it, the fronts slid. Not much you can do with a FWD in a situation like that except let off the gas. I know my 325i would have not come close to sliding in that same situation and even if it did, you can play with modulating the power since it's a RWD.

    BTW, is your vacation over? Welcome back, we missed you. Genie1's been a lot less interested in the board since you left ;O)
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Member Posts: 356
    There's really a million ways to slice & dice the issue.

    To start, we have to understand the underlying intent of a speed limit: to foster safety.

    The problem is that vehicular speed is always situational and speeding can be no more immoral than the creation of inappropriate speed limits, or obeying the letter of the law by doing exactly the speed limit despite under adverse driving conditions.

    We also know how speed enforcement has generally transformed itself away from actual promotion of highway safety into a revenue tool which is a perversion of spirit and intent.

    I have no moral problem in letting a police officer present his evidence and if it is wrong, prove how his evidence was wrong. Even if I was technically speeding, that which he considers to be the evidence must be correct: it is the object lesson to prevent the potential for the improper conviction of a completely innocent man.

    And that's what applies here: if the GA officer testifies that the defendant was going exactly 70.0 mph, the burden is on him to prove that. If he can't do that, the defendant should walk, regardless of his actual innocence/guilt. If, on the other hand, the officer recognizes the limititations of his technology and presents his case while taking that into account and states that the defendant must have been going somewhere between 67mph-85mph (and this is correct), then the defendant should pay.

    It is in the public interest to make sure that our public servants strive to prevent abuses and actually strive to discover the TRUTH in court, instead of manipulating alleged facts to merely try to WIN their case: law officials who do unprofessional and shoddy work should be punished so that next time, he gets it right, and officials who knowingly abuse the system where it has known weaknesses and use it to punish the innocent and minor offenders simply to create revenue deserve nothing less than loss of employment followed by imprisonment.

    -hh
  • boelkeboelke Member Posts: 14
    Gents,

    What do you mean when you say 7/10ths 10/10ths?
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    On this board, it typically means driving at about 70% of the cars or the drivers limits.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    7/10ths and 10/10ths is like a percentage that approximates how far you're pushing the car. It may refer to RPM's, or handling limits, or top speed (10/10ths being highest and 1/10 lowest)
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Terrific reflexes for a middle-aged man :o) I must be getting old...
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    No need to convince me or most other people on this board. We had a debate on speeding a few months back that covered the issue from all angles. In short, there is no high correlation between speeding and accidents - only about 10% of all fatalities are related to speeding. Traffic enforcement has turned into a money-making machine - just look at the recent debate on shortening the yellow lights at intersections from 5 sec to 3 sec over the years to generate tickets. Law in general is guidelines for justice, not rules carved in stone and it can be interpreted many different ways. Criminals abuse it and so do law-enforcement people but overall, it works very as the lowest common denominator in a country of diverse population such as the U.S. As far as reasonable speed limits, in most of Europe and the rest of the world, the official freeway limit is 130 km/h (about 81 mph) and you won't get pulled over for doing 140 km/h (~ 88 mph). Not to mention that we have the best roads and vehicles (function of wealth) here in the U.S. I NEVER argue with a police officer and typically apologize for my driving. But if that doesn't work, I have the right to defend myself in court. I have never caused an accident in 15 years of driving.
  • boelkeboelke Member Posts: 14
    Thanks brave, kominsky. I live about 4 miles from work and everytime I drive I try and get ads much fun out of it by shifting close to 5500 to maximize torque on the succeeding gear and downshifting where possible. Because of lack of practice I do end up in some close calls cornering with the car but hey it still is fun.

    BMW driving school has slots available now for April in SC. Has anybody tried it and how was it? I want to learn how to push my car to its limits safely.

    Another thing. I drove on 3 to 4 inches of fine dust on a "shortcut" in the Croatan forest. I was following an Explorer and the DSC was working overtime as I was sliding on that layer of sand/dust on that road. I never lost control even at 65 to 70. Sure the tail would slide but DSC kicks in and keeps me straight. Now my engine compartment is covered in fine dust. Is it safe to wash the engine compartment?

    Thanks a lot gents.
  • genie1genie1 Member Posts: 398
    I was interested, but you guys weren't very entertaining.

    :)

    Welcome back Dave.

    I asked a friend if I could drive his Accord so I could really appreciate my own ride. (He said no) :(
    So I'm going to test the IS300 instead. :)
  • derprofiderprofi Member Posts: 250
    Just when I thought the Aztek was the worst design I'd ever seen, along comes Cadillac to take the prize with this new CTS. Anyone care to wager how long Cadillac will wait before dropping this design?
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    yeh, the reflexes are fine. the mind is that of a 7-year old (or so my wife tells me). all of my maturity has gone straight to my hair. :-)
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Got back late Tuesday night. Not doing anything for 10 days or so was great. Went through a BMW withdraw though (drove a 93 Accord). Did get to hydro plane which is always interesting.

    Genie1: Good to be back. I remember the IS300 being a good handler, but somewhat twitchy.
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    if the 330 club sport is anything like previous club sport editions, yea, it's gonna be worth the extra money...

    -Chris
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    I've finally got an order drawn up and ready to sign. Of course it's always possible to get a few more dollars out of the dealer, so I wanted to see what you guys thought:

    325i sedan, steel blue, SP, cold weather package, moon roof, bi xenons, computer & HK upgrade (floor mats included). I live in Madison, WI BTW.

    MSRP = $33,045
    Invoice = $29,960
    My offer = $31,000 (purposely low ball)
    Their counter = $32,045

    I left saying I needed to clear it with my wife and I might consider $32,045 if they included the arm rest ($350 installed, they claim) and let me take out the M3 for a little drive.

    $1000 off MSRP sounds ok, especially if they include the arm rest. On the other hand, it sounds like others have gotten $1500 off MSRP.

    Are there any useful dealer installed options I should/could get included (alarm, sun shade, etc.)? Maybe a key ring or coffee mug? It doesn't hurt to ask, I guess.

    -Murray

    p.s. I got an email from our Travelocity fair watcher…Round trip from Madison, WI to Munich…$215!! If I didn't have a 16 month old daughter, I'd be on my way to the Autoban!
  • superman5superman5 Member Posts: 154
    what is the model number for 1999 bmw 323i, is it e46? plz help
  • MULAWYERMULAWYER Member Posts: 24
    You dealing with Zimbrick? What's the salesperson's name (if you don't mind). I have not really talked price yet with the dealers here in Milwaukee, but they really don't seem to be dealing right now. I was looking to do around $1500 over invoice, so your figure ($2000 over minus $350 for arm rest= $1650) looks good to me!

    BTW, I like the color choice! Are you going with the black 'ette?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The following are the build designations for the 1999 3-Series:

    E36 -- 318ti, 323is, 328is & all convertibles
    E46 -- 323i & 328i

    Hope this helps.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • visordocvisordoc Member Posts: 48
    I'm currently waiting for a 2002 steel blue black 'ette 330i sedan to arrive sometime in the next 4-5 weeks. One question I have is can I bring the car to service at a dealership that is different from the one from which I had purchased?

    The reason is because the dealership that is close to my home could not beat the price that another dealership (further away) was offering.
  • jmad325jmad325 Member Posts: 17
    Hi, I am currently considering trading in my 95 325is for a newer four door 3 series. The edmunds TMV for the 330 is almost exactly the MSRP, which I really don't want to pay, for 2002 models. I was wondering if anyone in the Houston area, or anywhere around Texas, has been able to find a good deal for a 2002 330 (work up from invoice, 1000 or more off MSRP). I am not too sure about options right now but at least xenons and leather, but not everything. If I can find such a deal I might go for the 330 or just stick with the 325. thanks. josh
  • rpadillarpadilla Member Posts: 53
    I recently did the same thing -- bought an '01 330i from a dealer in ANOTHER STATE, and for service, I HAVE to bring my car into the only BMW dealer in town.

    What MAY happen, as in my case, is that I won't get the "special" service they typically reserve for customers of that dealership. These "special" services, as I have been told, include priority listing when your car is in service (if you bought there, your car is bumped AHEAD of others WHO DIDN'T BUY THEIR CAR THERE and are waiting for service...so much for making appointments), free car washes, loaner cars (none of which, I may add, are BMWs) and shuttle service (if you don't want a loaner car).

    So, buy your car at the best possible price...that's the smart thing to do. And, don't worry about bringing your car in for service. If they treat you unreasonably, you can always "ding" them on the survey -- BMW service centers pride themselves on the EXCELLENT ratings they receive from their customers. I have already "dinged" my local BMW service center by doing this.

    Good luck!
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    what did you "ding" them for?

    -Chris
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Yes, I'm dealing with Zimbrick. A friend of mine recommended Jeff Klomp as a sales person. He seems pretty straightforward without all the BS.

    I think I'll take the $1000 under invoice if they throw in a couple coffee cups. At best, I think I might be able to get a couple more hundred off.

    I had considered emailing several dealers within driving distance with my exact order and price I was willing to pay, but I never got around to it. I don’t' think I would drive for 5 hours for a few hundred dollars anyway.

    I'm going with the black 'ette. I like the look of the black better. My only reservation is sitting on a hot seat in the summer, but I figured this is only an issue for a couple months a year. I'll probably buy a sunshade for the front window. I had an RX-7 with dark brown leather that didn't seem to be a problem.

    Good luck with your purchase! Maybe we can get together for a drive around the Kettles next summer!

    -Murray
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    shouldn't necessarily deter you from going European Delivery. A friend did and the trip worked out great, albeit a bit shorter from the DC area. Before electing to postpone replacement of our sedan and get a S2000 as a third car instead, I was all set to pack up my wife and 3 & 6 year old daughters to go to Munich to pick up a 530i at huge savings. At least you don't have to explain taking your 16 month old out of school.

    By my calcs, the ED invoice on your car is about $28,085. I know I could get it at $1,500 over invoice without much difficulty (ED sales do not come off a dealer's allocation, so some can be convinced that any profit is gravy). If your dealer would actually go down to your lowball $31k offer on a US delivered car, perhaps a $29.5k ED price isn't worth the trip. But at a US $32k, that may be worth another thought. In my case, the 530i savings of about $3.5k would have made it a no-brainer.

    Good luck on whatever you decide. You've already been fortunate enough to get the right sex child. Oops, that's going to start something!
  • tenet1tenet1 Member Posts: 354
    Is there a website where I can explore Euro Delivery prices etc? I would like some more info on the process.

    Thanks
  • hgeyerhgeyer Member Posts: 188
    www.eurobuyers.com
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Congratulations on a great combo!!! Your options are identical to mine, the only difference is the exterior color. Maybe our cars were separated at birth :o) Steel blue should go very well with black 'ette. The black 'ette does get a little warmer during the Summer (mmm maybe 5-10 degrees warmer than light interiors) but I really like its sporty look. I got $1,300 off in the spring of this year. When I tried to negotiate a price in November, 2000, the best price I was able to get was $700 off here in the Boston area. I think $1,000 is not unreasonable for this time of year but again, the regional differences could be dramatic. In addition to the armrest, you could also ask for free wheel locks, a T-shirt, good financing rate, and sure, an M3 drive would be awesome. I hope it works out for you - keep us posted.
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    I wouldn't mind taking my daughter to Germany, but she has food allergies (dairy, eggs and peanuts). Basically, we can't trust feeding her food from a restaurant and trying to read food labels in English is challenging enough. I think we would have to take all of her food with us.

    Also, my wife didn't want to go to Germany before May that would put delivery of the car into June or July. I know I've been looking at 3 series for nearly 2 years, but I'm definitely getting more anxious now.

    I considered taking a friend along and driving up to Belgium to watch one of the Spring Classics (remember, I'm a bike racing fan) in March or April, but I don't think my wife would go for that :-(

    In the end, I wouldn't use Euro delivery to save money, but to get a free, memorable trip. I'll just plan ahead a little more when I get an M5 in a few years :-)

    -Murray
  • bmw_guybmw_guy Member Posts: 17
    What is the difference between V6 and I6, technically???
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    one has 6 cylinders in a row, and the others have 2 banks of 3... :)


    the inline 6 is a much more balanced and smooth engine than the v-6, but requires a "longer" engine bay... the i6 is also more efficient...


    this explains it pretty well in non-technical terms.


    -Chris

  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Thanks Dale, your post are allways enjoyable and entertaining, unfortunatly most citizens only contact is a negitive one ie traffic unless they were a victim of a crime.Its a travesty it takes a major event for people to appreciate those who risk to protect them. OK, i better stop and ge back to the 3 series post :).

    IS11: Are you able to mention the pricing quote you recived for a NON euro delivery from Temple ? I had planned on making the trip but may not be possible now. thanks

    Well im off to Sunny San Diego ill catch up next week
    DL
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    Great link! I didn't know all these advantages of in-line 6 over the V-6. I was also surprised to find out that it's cheaper to build the in-line 6 these days. It seems like a superior engine in every respect except it takes more width to mount. I guess a lot of other manufacturers would be interested in using it if they could only cram it into their cars' engine compartments. Kudos to BMW engineers!!
  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    As the original poster regarding the speeding ticket, I'm really surprised at the extent of the discussion.

    In short, I don't know what exact speed I was traveling. Was it 86? I would be surprised. Was I going faster than 70? Yes- I would be a hazzard at 70. I typically travel 9-10 over. The cruise on the rental was not functioning so ?? This is my 2nd ticket in about 5 years.

    For those of you that say, you speed you pay, I'll expect that you will all be mailing in your checks when you look down and you are 1 mph over the posted or when you roll on the rt on red.

    I agree w/ huntzinger's post. If they say I was going 86, they should be 100% sure and be able to prove it. If they say I was speeding in a 2000 Vette when I was driving a Yugo, that should be a problem.

    There was no way that he could have picked me out, targeted me and pegged me accurately.
    Everyone slamed on there brakes (he was just over a hill) I was by no means that fastest in that group. They were going by me as we went over the hill. I actually had to swerve into the left lane b/c a motor cycle swerved nearly hitting me. It was almost a pile-up.

    Let's say I was going 80 and he tickets me for 86, should I pay it? Some say you speed so pay. Well lets say I was going 80 (speeding) and he peggs me for 120 mph, takes my license and gives a $600 fine. Do I sit down and shut up b/c I was technically speeding?

    Will I pay it? Probably. Even if I was going 54mph. It's not worth the trouble of going to FL for $150. Brave makes a good point w/ ins but since I only have one other violation, not worth it.

    No hard feeling to anyone I hope. Just my comments

    drcr
  • drcrdrcr Member Posts: 87
    Hey thanks for the feedback.

    Kominsky, did you find the info on the gas service notice

    drcr
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    If the officer used a laser gun vs. radar, then they can lock on you pretty easily from the crowd.
  • rpadillarpadilla Member Posts: 53
    The two main areas I focused on were their less desirable level of COURTESY (the sales person I was working with saw me in service, mentioned something to the service consultant assigned to me, who then became rude. I waited for over an hour and a half to get functions programmed into the car's computer, i.e., doors locking over 5 mph) and COMPLETENESS OF SERVICE (when I had purchased my car, since it was out of state, the BMW dealer hadn't programmed in the aforementioned functions, and service was closed. When I brought my car into the local BMW dealer to get those functions programmed, I had to bring up what I wanted programmed, AND, had to go back a second time because I was never given the menu of functions available, which I learned from this board). From others I have talked to about this dealer/service center, experiences are similar.

    Ray
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    you're welcome. it was the most straightforward one i could find, and i figured i'd be better off finding a "non-technical" link because i didn't feel like typing a hundred paragraphs on the differences... :)

    if you think about it for a second, your average american grocery getter for years came with some variation of an i6... it's only when space became a premium that v6's became more popular...

    -Chris
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    gotcha.

    my comment would be, "you expected to get the information and prep work that you were supposed to get from the dealer who sold you the car from the local guy you didn't buy from"...

    i'm curious as to why you think the servicing dealer should go out of his way to give you information that you should have gotten from the dealer who sold you the car? and why you think they should be in a big hurry to do this prep work for you if you didn't buy the car from them?

    put yourself in their shoes and honestly answer the above questions. don't know what you do for a living, but if someone bought something from someone else based solely on price and then came back to you with it and asked you to do something with it, would you be bending over backwards to help? i know i wouldn't be.

    -Chris
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Cramming a I6 in the engine compartment of a FWD means making the car wider. Since nearly every car on the road (seems like at least 95%) is FWD, this is not a likely compromise.

    -Murray
  • ccotenjccotenj Member Posts: 610
    yup. or spend a boatload of money on r&d to make a really short transaxle...

    lol... i just thought of something... remember the pontiac grand prix "wider is better" ads? well, i guess they were right! (just not in the case of their car!!!)

    -Chris
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    <<< I was interested, but you guys weren't very entertaining. >>>

    Typical muse - sits there capriciously waiting for someone to entertain her :o)
  • mschukarmschukar Member Posts: 351
    Just a thought-I've heard that FWD is more efficient than RWD. If this is true, would the better efficiency of an I6 make RWD more efficient.

    My thought on FWD-manufacturers decided that they could make FWD cars for less cost than RWD and convinced the public that it was better (snow traction, etc). Joe Public looks at RWD cars (Mustangs, Vettes, etc.) and they suck in the snow, so FWD is better. Now, you mention RWD and everyone thinks you're crazy if you live in the midwest! Most gen X'ers probably never had the chance to drive a RWD car.

    -Murray
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I think you're right. FWD didn't start getting popular till the big oil crisis back in the '70's when gas was too expensive and the economy was weak. It seems to me, though, that the average driver out there was still better off with a FWD, as they had less of a chance of spinning the car out of control in snow and ice. The advance of electronic stability, traction control, etc. in more recent years is helping RWD make a more MAINSTREAM comeback (it never really faded in the high end and/or performance oriented crowd).
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I think she's waiting for someone to buy her those car seats for her. ;)

    Gave one of my co-workers a ride in my 330 couple of months ago. Now he's looking at getting a 525 with Euro delivery.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    I am stupid - I thought she'd settle for wits alone :o)
  • novcenthusiastnovcenthusiast Member Posts: 80
    late but:

    I don't think the current (and last) Prelude's have an Si model, but an SH. The latter comes with the ATTS Dave was refering to. Plus I think all the current body styles have 200hp or something. So Brave must've been driving one from the previous gen.

    The SF Auto show was weak. No new 7 series, no Mcoupe, no new 350Z, no RX8, and you couldn't get in any of the Porsches.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    while taking pain killers.

    Question for those with rain sensing wipers. Does it kick in automatically or do you have to start it? I have my stalk set at rain sensing, but have to force it to do the first wipe before it does it automatically. Maybe I should read the manual some more.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Member Posts: 2,698
    The one that I drove was a '96, which was the last year for that body style. They changed it the following year and renamed it to the SH and it had AATS, just like you're saying. It also had 195 HP isntead of the 160-HP Si that I drove.
  • rpadillarpadilla Member Posts: 53
    Look, Mr. Cote, I didn't expect you to understand. Really, I don't. I visit this board infrequently to see if there is some information I can use, and maybe to add my own opinions/thoughts/whatever. However, it is precisely this kind of response that keeps me "lurking" rather than actively participating. Heck, I don't claim to know anything about BMWs, or hold myself out as a BMW expert. Further, I don't mind a good debate every now and again...but, IMHO, many of the "conversations", if visualized, would look like two mountain goats bashing heads for territory....Hey, I value the opinions/ideas of many of the folks on this board, including yours, but I do not enjoy being attacked.

    Okay, let me come down off of my soap box for a bit. I really don't feel the need to defend myself. Moreover, in the event that you move, take your car with you, and go a local dealer/service center in your new area, then would your statement still hold true? Would you have to buy a new car there just to get the courteous treatment that anyone should deserve? I don't think so.

    Ray
  • petrarchpetrarch Member Posts: 28
    This has been beaten to death, but...

    At the dealership today, there were none w/ 'ette. For less maintenance and worry, I was leaning toward chosing it.

    With the individual options I'll be selecting on a new 325i, it costs very little more to just choose the Prem Pack. So, I'm a bit stuck...

    My impression (from this board) is that the feel is comprable. Is maintenance considerably easier w/ 'ette? For those owners who have it, is the interior simply odorless?
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