BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

dave330i · March 2002

Oh, ok. It's alway so much clearer in my mind.

When I wrote both, I ment both high & low beams.

cnorthrup · March 2002

Did anyone watch West Wing last night?

This board is not at all like that, but I can think of another one that is...

CNorthrup

mschukar · March 2002

Well, I thought I had the nicest car on the street for a couple weeks (except for maybe the Mercedes a few doors up) until yesterday the guy 4 doors down had an M3 convertible idling in the driveway!! He's got the SMG II also. We decided we need to go out for a drive with our two 3's sometime. Reminds me of the Avalanche commercial, "Hey, you wanna switch?" Wishful thinking!

Anyway, back to break in. He picked up the M3 at the performance center in SC and drove it back here to Wisconsin. Wolfgang (sounds like someone you can trust for BMW knowledge) at the PC told him to change the speed enough for the RPM's to change by 500 rpms (about 10 mph) every 50 miles. This certainly is more informative than "vary the speed" advice in the manual.

I also asked a gearhead acquaintance (he rebuilds engines for fun) about varying the speed for break in. He didn't say anything about the pistons "stopping" at a particular spot in the cylinders but said the cam shaft is lubricated by oil slinging around and a constant speed wouldn't randomly distribute the oil. This seems to support Wolfgang's advice. My question is why doesn't this matter after the break in period?

On Xenon's and DRL's

I love the Xenon's. I can't say they're worth the cost, but you definitely notice a difference. I almost enjoy driving at night better than the day!

I opted for DRL's when I picked the car up. I haven't been annoyed by other cars DRL's myself as Shipo mentioned and I didn't want to drive around with my Xenon's on all the time. Personally, I don't think mine are bright enough to be annoying. When it's a little darker I turn on the lights to the middle position and turn on the fog lights just for the hell of it.

-murray

p.s. I ordered my personalized plates today "AMO BICI". Bonus to anyone who figures out the meaning. Hint, where in Europe did Shipo say not to park your Bimmer?

genie1 · March 2002

DRLs are mandatory in Canada. I think they are great for lo-visibility conditions including dusk, rain, snow etc. People fail to realize that if they can't see thirty feet ahead, then others can't see their vehicle either. At least with DRLs you have a marginally better chance of being seen by the other guy!

The difference is especially obvious when you (don't) see an older car without them coming up behind you on the highway.

brave1heart · March 2002

AMO BICI

Love and kisses?!?

pap5 · March 2002

Longtime lurker, first-time poster to this board.

We picked up a 530i in der Fatherland last July. It has the Steptronic (my wife's only non-negotiable regarding the car). As I have documented on the 5-board, I don't believe that the Step and the I6 are the happiest pair. In both fully-auto modes, performance in the lower half of the power band is more sluggish than I expected. Most noticeable is some hesitation and indecisiveness at launch, and delayed kickdowns to lower gears. It takes a bit of the edge off the excitement of owning the car. This doesn't happen in the "manual" mode -- engine response is uniformly smooth and linear through the gears. But "shifting" a manumatic is nowhere near as satisfying a shifting a proper manual.

Most people who own Steptronic-equipped cars seem to be satisfied with them, but I still urge you to give the 5-speed a real try.

mschukar · March 2002

AMO BICI

Love and kisses?!?

You've got the first part right.

Thank you for playing. Next contestant please.

-murray

butmywife · March 2002

Postoak- The production # will get you into the Owner's Circle so you can track your car's production. I first saw my VIN# when I paid for the car 30 days before ED delivery. BTW, email the O Circle and ask them to decode your VIN# and they will.

mschukar - I Love British Colombia?

postoak · March 2002

Thanks! Hmmm, 30 days before delivery would be about 5/25. Looks like I'll have to take PeopleFirst up on their offer of an extension.

pfaust · March 2002

I have heard that maintenance costs for these cars can be outrageous. I am prepared to buy my first BMW within the next two months, but would like to get an idea on what to expect for these costs. I know the first two years or 24k are free, but what about after the honeymoon is over?
Can someone tell me the average cost of the following? Of course, it makes a differerence on whether a dealer or an independent mechanic performs the work. For a worst case scenario, what would a dealer charge for:
1) Oil and filter change.
2) Replace front brake pads.
3) Typical tune-up.
Thanks for any assistance.

mschukar · March 2002

I Love British Colombia?

Not even close.

Another hint, what kind of racing do I like? I think this was a discussion 6 months ago or so.

-murray

abcnyc · March 2002

My 330i is steel blue with manual transmission, leatherette, SP, CWP, wood, and xenons. I was able to get $1465 off MSRP which is about $1790 over invoice. I suppose I could have gotten a greater discount if I had more options. But understand that the discount may also depend on your region. I also had a wide range of responses from dealers just within the DC area. I had one dealer indicate that he might be able to discount $200 - $500 off MSRP because they can sell many of their cars at full MSRP.

mschukar · March 2002

Check out http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport.cfm?section=ownership&vhcl_nmb=9500 and compare it to other cars.

it shows 5 year costs of a 330i including maintenance and repair costs.

-Murray

jparente · March 2002

Hi, new to the 3 series board. We just bought a Certified 2000 BMW 323i about a month ago and love the car. As we are in Idaho we will need some type of winter tires. Wanted to get some recommendations on your experiences and also were you can pick up some rims for those tires (so the nice ones on the car don't get damaged).

Also, what is with the auto climate control and the periodic high fan speed? It gets a bit annoying and not sure if this is normal behavior or not. Thanks!

bmw323is · March 2002

Try tirerack.com for snow tires and wheels, although it may be too late to buy them this winter (then again, maybe they have some good closeout deals).

If your fan is increasing and decreasing in speed, it may need repair. If it just goes to a high speed until the car is warmed or cooled, that is normal. In warmer sunny weather, it sounds like the car is going to take off. I always have to set the fan control lower manually and later reset it to auto.

Enjoy the new car.

rdl40 · March 2002

My 330i steel blue with sp, leather and style
"72" wheels just arrived at the dealer today.
Went to check it out, can't wait to pick it up on Saturday.
I was able to negotiate a $1200 over inv. on this car.(SF Bay area)

jluftig- thanks for the advice on the "clowns nose" , gave the instructions to the dealer for
programming.
Did your car arrive?
Ron

jjshabadoo · March 2002

1) It seems clear to me that you have never driven or been in an automobile equipped with xenon headlights yet you want us to save the anecdotes. Sure that makes alot of sense. Why bother posting anything if you don't care to hear what others' experiences have been? A large part of the usefulness of this board is so that people benefit from the experience of others.

2) You demand "guidance from scientifically valid double-blind experiments" yet you don't feel compelled to do the research yourself. I think a number of us have already expressed what we think are the benefits of xenon headlights. We are not the ones that need convincing. Enjoy whatever you decide on and be sure to share your anecdotes with us.

dej0 · March 2002

I am curious, you imply that the blue light (higher frequency) of the Xenons is bad for contrast. Why? The intensity of backscattered light is proportional to the frequency of the light raised to the 4th power. Higher frequencies should give better contrast, even at a slightly lower light output. I agree that the eye and the brain filter the light for preferred frequencies, but on a clear day, the sky is blue, not yellow (or purple as scattering would predict).

I agree that DRL's are not for everyday. In NC, we are required by law to 'burn head lamps' while using our windshield wipers. It makes sense to use them when there are less than ideal conditions.

Ned

shipo · March 2002

Hmmm, I remember a discussion from 1998 about Xenons, apparently they aren't blue at all. If I remember correctly, they are about as close to pure white as possible, so, while they are certainly less yellow, and they might appear blue (as opposed to those stupid Blue aftermarket lights), they really are white.

Best Regards,
Shipo

allano · March 2002

I believe BMW's standard lighting is not getting it due when talking about Xenons. People have compared the BMW Xenon's to regular lighting on other cars but that may be like comparing apples to oranges.
The other clear night, I had the opportunity to compare both BMW lighting systems (Xenons on my daughter's 330xi and regular lights on my 325xiT) on the same hilly, winding, blacktop road and did not find any eye-opening differences. In fact, there are more similarities than differences: the far-probing beam slightly off to the right, the sharp vertical cut-off (obvious just before a hill) and the wide spread pattern on both sides. I was not able to pick up objects at any significantly (greater than 40ft) greater distance (drove regular lighting first, xenon's second).
At turnpike speeds at night, I have never been surprised by unexpected objects (thrown retreads, roadkill) with regular lighting. And both have the authority to move slow-pokes from the left lane as you approach them (never experienced that before in any other car). Whether Xenon or regular, BMW lighting is one of the best in the business.
I guess the obvious question would be whether I would buy Xenons the next time. For me no, but my daughter would not be without them because of the way they look. But also consider that I bought a wagon and use it to haul her rocker-recliner, matress and 4x8 sheets of plywood when I'm not enjoying fast on/off-ramps.

dej0 · March 2002

Hi Folks,
If you are interested, I have two pictures of our new 325, steel blue metallic sedan during the Performance Center Delivery. The URL is www.duke.edu/~edl/bmw.html. The photos are both from the rear quarter panel, I could not get far enough away to get any other shot clearly. I'll try to take some more after washing it. The pine tree pollen is out in force these days.

Ned

brave1heart · March 2002

AMO BICI

I love bikes?!?

butmywife · March 2002

The price? Perhaps the question is, How much ARE you willing to pay for xenons? Would those concerned about the price be willing to pay $650? How about $575? Would you be a buyer today if I could get them for you for $550? That said, if you want a real blue light special, try K-mart, if you can find one that is still open.

Color? The color shouldn't matter. Either a person likes them or not. Blue or white? Let's compromise and call it blight.

ButMyWife, xenon warrior prince (lululululululu!)

derprofi · March 2002

You love bikes?

I was having flashbacks to high school Latin (amo, amas, amat...) and trying to think what the heck "bici" meant (hmmmm, didn't Caesar say "beni, bidi, bici"? ) but then it clicked.

butmywife · March 2002

Si esta escribiendo en espanol, AMO BICI seria "I love bicicletas," como dice el senor Bravo.

Gracias, ButMyWife

brave1heart · March 2002

I don't have any scientific proofs or even a good understanding of light to explain why HID lights are better. I do recall watching something about cars on the Learning Channel , though, and they mentioned that the light emitted by the HID lights resembles daylight much closer than regular lights. They also mentioned that HID lights are far superior than regular lights and some day they may be standard on cars just like airbags are today. The xenons are one of my favorite options on my 325i but if you are on a very tight budget, $700 may not be worth it. The regular lights on the 3-series seems to be exceptionally good as well.

nyccarguy · March 2002

Hey Rob-

Your (ahem) employer seems to be getting a bad rep on the X5 board. I know there's nothing you can do about it by telling them you'll give them a good deal if they come in as that would be not kosher with the TH agreement. If you'd like, I'll give them your handle here on TH and tell them they can email you if they have questions.

huntzinger · March 2002

1) It seems clear to me that you have never driven or been in an automobile equipped with xenon headlights...

Ah, but I have.

Why bother posting anything if you don't care to hear what others' experiences have been? A large part of the usefulness of this board is so that people benefit from the experience of others.

Ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"?

The basic problem is that there is tremendous variation in human responses; I've had product tests videotaped where there was obvious performance bias due to subject knowledge: one common example is 'anticipatory flinch', as the subject was expecting pain and he reacted before the pain source was even applied.

Suffice to say that the contribution of human performance is a not insignificant part of my daily job.

And to be brutally honest, it is also possible that the reason why I didn't see any big difference on the Xenon drives I've been on is because of my own doubts: Placebo Effects can work in _both_ directions.

2) You demand "guidance from scientifically valid double-blind experiments"...

Yes. I've learned that anecdotal claims are not generally worth much, because they have so many sources of error and bias. It is for this specific reason that I am only interested in good quality, scientifically based test results.

...yet you don't feel compelled to do the research yourself.

Not exactly. I don't have a compelling need for the answer right now, so its a low priority for me to get around to this research.

I think a number of us have already expressed what we think are the benefits of xenon headlights. We are not the ones that need convincing.

Here's the dilemma: how do you definitively know that you're actually having an improvement in perception performance, and that it is not at all possibly attributable to a psychologically based Placebo Effect?

My contention is that you don't.

---

From dej0:

I am curious, you imply that the blue light (higher frequency) of the Xenons is bad for contrast. Why?

Because the human eye is most sensitive down at red, not up at blue.

I believe that it has been demonstrated that it can require as few as 2-3 red photons to trigger a neural response.

It is also known that other wavelengths require more. The inference is that a blue headlight would need to be more powerful, just to maintain the same performance as a red one. Now I do know that Xenons put out more power, but what I don't know is if they put out enough additional power to overcome this apparent handicap.

I have posed this question to one of our young guys who has an appropriate background and who likes puzzles for entertainment on the weekends. By the time that I need to have a more definitive answer, I expect that he'll have something interesting to provide more insight.

In the meantime, I already know that I've lost a good deal of my night vision simply due to age: our Pupil Diameter is typically 7mm at age 20, but by the time we turn 30 or 40, its down to 5mm, which is a 50% reduction in light-gathering area.

FWIW, if I had to take a guess as to why we're more sensitive towards red, I'd speculate it was those thousands of years of evolution where the only night light source was a camp fire. Sounds as good of a guess as any other!

-hh

esq1 · March 2002

What does everyone use to clean the dash?

tenet1 · March 2002

Damp cloth works wonderfully.

mschukar · March 2002

AMO BICI

I love bikes?!?

Ding, ding, dingWe have a winner! Thanks for playing. Your prize will arrive in 4-6 weeks.

I was trying to come up with a good personalized plate. I had MURMAN on my Miata, but it didn't really fit the BMW. A couple years ago, my wife and I took a cycling trip in Italy and had a wonderful time. I looked through the Italian phrase book for ideas and saw "amo" was I love. I know bici was bike. I typed "I love to bike" into Babelfish and got "Amo alla bici" in Italian. I took the liberty of removing alla and I had 7 characters to fit on a plate. Added bonus, it must translate in Spanish based on butmywife's response. BTW bici is pronounced "bee chee" in Italian.

Just to get off of beating Xenon's to death, are there any other good plate ideas out there?

-murray

nyccarguy · March 2002

Maybe you could put XTCBMW on your car to ensure getting pulled over and searched a few times a month.

dafreak · March 2002

that simply was awesome....i applaud you and your very analytical response....i look forward to hearing what your co-worker has to say...G35

shipo · March 2002

Especially so because y'all already know that I like them, however, here are some links to sites that attempt to present some objective views on Xenon lights:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/engineering/illumin/archives/spring2000/etc/xenon/
http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~stanj/Audi/Mods/XenonPower.html
http://www.cars.com.eg/xenon.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2001-06-07-xenon.htm

Best Regards,
Shipo

jjshabadoo · March 2002

huntzinger,

"Ever heard of the "Placebo Effect"?"

- Ah, but I have.

"The basic problem is that there is tremendous variation in human responses; I've had product tests videotaped where there was obvious performance bias due to subject knowledge: one common example is 'anticipatory flinch', as the subject was expecting pain and he reacted before the pain source was even applied."

- (Hmmm) Does that explain why oncoming traffic is more likely to "flash" xenon equipped automobiles? Is this an "anticipatory flash" associated somehow knowing that the oncoming vehicle has xenons?

"Yes. I've learned that anecdotal claims are not generally worth much, because they have so many sources of error and bias. It is for this specific reason that I am only interested in good quality, scientifically based test results."

- I agree with you here. What is not anecdotal is that the reach of xenon headlights extends further out than that of their halogen counterpart. Thus it illuminates further out and and to the sides of the vehicle. There is also less fading at the "edges" of the projected light.

"Here's the dilemma: how do you definitively know that you're actually having an improvement in perception performance, and that it is not at all possibly attributable to a psychologically based Placebo Effect?"

- Ah, that's where the research comes in. When it becomes a higher priority for you, then you can see what I've been trying to say.

jjshabadoo · March 2002

Are you the same guy who was around early in the week posting very "analytical" comments to the effect that:

1. The G35 is a safer automobile than the BMW
2. The G35 will do circles around the BMW

So does this mean you see the error of your ways and want to retract these statements?

billiam70 · March 2002

In my opinion it's mostly the after market knock-offs that are causing the problems. Those bulbs can be so obnoxiously blue that they really can be harsh to oncoming motorists. The quality is so poor the light is scattered all over the place. I think people need to identify what they are having issues with: "True" Xenon bulbs or those after market pieces of junk bulbs that are supposed to give that Xenon look.

The real Xenons do not bother my eyes any more than conventional bulbs, but those after market things are a totally different story. And you know that when a Honda Civic or Kia Spectra passes you that they are definitely after market.

Bill

derprofi · March 2002

Many BMW CCA autocross events and all of the driver schools and new driver clinics (as far as I know) are open to non-BMW owners. So as someone else mentioned, why not just bring out your G35 to one of the events and see how your car does? Seems like an easy way to prove your claim about running circles around Bimmers.

vkwheels · March 2002

Hi, Am new on this board. 14K+ messages is too scary to read so I will take it as a sign of your enthusiasm and love for this car. Test drove a 325 sedan, was dismayed to find out how much I liked it. So now am doing my homework. Would be happy for any advise on research or buying or experiences. In the meanwhile I'll be 'haunting' for more info. (haha)

nyccarguy · March 2002

The majority (I said majority, not everyone) will advise you to equip your car with the Getrag 5 Speed manual transmission (standard) and the Sports Package (Bigger Wheels, Summer Tires, Sport Tuned Suspension, Sport Seats).

I see you're in Orange County, CA (I'm going there next month to visit). Try getting the car you want for around $1500 over invoice (check out edmunds.com & eurobuyers.com for invoice pricing). If you have little or no success with your local dealer, try Cutter motors in Santa Barbara. A few on this board have said they are more willing to negotiate than any dealer in California and have said it has been worth the drive from either San Diego or San Francisco.

Another option that is frequently discussed is European Deliverey (ED). You order the car you want from a dealer, and pick it up at the factory in Munich, Germany. You can either do it as a vacation to Europe (Which I hope to do with my girlfriend this fall) or just to save some cash if you've got a few extra days off. Theoreticaly you can fly in, pickup the car, stay one night at a hotel, drop the car off, and fly back the next day . The car (European Delivery 325Ci) that I've priced out comes out to be more than $3500 off US MSRP.

tenet1 · March 2002

Sorry to drag this on but don't the BMW Xenons have a lens that confines the dispersement of light to a certain area, instead of blinding oncoming traffic?
I think that the culprits are the cheaper versions used by other manufacturers that disperse light everywhere.

seivwrig · March 2002

I think that i have read that about the Xenon. I have the Bi-xenon and even with the lows, I did get flashed in Germany, on the autobahn to say the least. I've never had problems with cars that have Xenon coming towards me. I do get distracted when I see the bluish-white light in my rearview mirror, especially those on the Acura TL and CL.

My observation is that the light seems more like daylight and the side view is excellent.

Per the brochure and BMW website, the Xenon gives off a bigger beam of light than the regular halogens. I guess I will have to read some physics books.

mfeldman · March 2002

A while back you noted tha t you didn't think the 540 v8 would be as reliable after 100k miles as the i6. I remember in the mid 90s there being durability problems with the v8s. Is that still the case?

dave330i · March 2002

use the flash light in my 3 series today. With Good Friday and all things were pretty slow at work, so I started putting my Ferrari F1 lego together (Shell stations in Europe sells them or something. Williams/BMW would have been perfect, but Shell doesn't sponsor them). Clumsy me, managed to drop one of the pieces under my desk. Lack of lighting made the retrieval quite difficult, so I ended up walking out to my car and grabbing the flash light.

F1 lego turned out quite well. 580 pieces, about 12" long or so.

mschukar · March 2002

I used my flash light when I installed the arm rest since it was at night in my garage.

Nice size to hold in your teeth while you fiddle around with both hands. Definately one of many little extras I love about this car!

I received a mini mag light at work as an xmas gift. Great, I thought, that will fit nicely into my new glove box in a few months. Guess I'll have to find another place for it :-)

-murray

jluftig · March 2002

+ Evrything works perfectly - Universal Remote was easy to program
- HK Stereo is good, but it is not as nice as that in my wifes Lexus RX300. BMW still has rome to improve here.
+ Xenon - Love them, they just look better than standard headlights both from the driver perspective and from the outside. Is actual visability better, not sure.
+- Ergonomics requires some learning - not totally intuitive - but with many controls on the steering wheel, excellent adjustable seats. I give this a plus after the learning is complete.
+ Handleling, Power, Ride, all that you expect from BMW - great !
+ Quality of workmanship - does not get better.
Same as Lexus, MB, and other premium sleds.
Do I recommend this car ? - Yes !

rdl40 · March 2002

What's the color? Hope you got the 5-speed?
Pick up mine tomorrow!!
Ron

jluftig · March 2002

I got the titanium silver, blk leather. What did you choose ? There are a lot of silver bimmers, but I did not want to stick out and think it just looks great. I opted for the auto, but I know the manual is a blast. Having to share this with my wife and knowing that i do spend more time in traffic than I like, auto was the only option. You are going to love your car. Just went for a night drive, seemed more fun than the day. Getting connected to my machine ( learning the controls & how it behaves ) at night is great. These machines are so tight. The orange glow of the gauges and buttons, even those on the steering wheel. I went into a 90 degree corner at 30mph and it stuck to the pavement, the seats held me in place and a bag of graceries (Ben & Jerries) flew to the other side. What fun ! You will have to tell us how your first day goes.
Congrats on the purchase.

rdl40 · March 2002

Mine is Steel Blue with sport pkg., grey leather
and 18" style 72 wheels (those 18,s really fill the wheel well!!) looks great.

Also, thanks for the info on the clowns nose, did they program yours O.K.?

Weather here in SF bay close to 80, will be enjoying my bmw all weekend. My scheduled
delivery is 4:00 tomorrow afternoon, probably won't be out of dealership until 7:00.

BTW did you do e46fanatic checklist and test drive before you took delivery? Any issues?

I'll post after I pick up.
Ron

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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