BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

sunnybrook · May 2002

Do most of you take your BMW to the local dealer for things such as oil changes, tire rotation, etc... or can the local jiffy lube do just as good a job?

dave330i · May 2002

The maintenance is "free" for the first 3 years, and even if it wasn't I wouldn't take mine to jiffy lube.

mg330ci · May 2002

If you have SP (sorry if you mentioned this before and I missed it), then you are not going to rotate the tires. Does BMW recommend tire rotation on non-SP equipped cars? Please help on this (I think no).

Inspections: What are you referring to by inspections, state inspections?. If this is the case, any authorized center (the gas station, tire shop, etc. around the corner should be able to provide this) otherwise, the manual doesn't mention anything about inspections outside routine service.

Hope this helps in your decision.

tenet1 · May 2002

...for the SP or non-SP as per the Owners Manual.

mg330ci · May 2002

Thanks tenet1

Think about it pierce1, if everything goes well, you will only taste your BMW dealers coffee and donuts ONCE a year!!! :-). And believe me, their coffee is probably not that good, although, there are some dealerships that are worth visiting. There is one in Kansas City that reminds me of the Guggenheim museum, worth a trip every week just to check it out!

brave1heart · May 2002

I thought you knew that BMW advises against tire rotation. The rears drive the car, the fronts steer. Because they have different functions, they wear out differently and tire rotation might compromise the balance of the car. BTW, good luck tomorrow - stay cool and you'll get what you want.

mfeldman - Shipo's 328's steering was marginally heavier than my 325i's retro'd steering but I'd say road feel was the same.

sunnybrook - I would not take a stir fry pan for an oil change at Jiffy Lube. Not any more at least - I used to take my "disposable" cars ($200 cars that run for a few months before you junk them) there back in college.

tenet1 · May 2002

Why does BMW use Conti's? In my opinion these are the worst tires I have received in a new car. I feel that they could do much better and increase the handling and control of the car.

dave330i · May 2002

Contis: Most OEM tires tend to be the cheapest, and if you look at the prices on the conti's, they're in the lower half. On the plus side, they seem to have longer tread life than most, and quietier ride.

tcn2k · May 2002

jiffy lube, you nuts!

stgreen · May 2002

When i turn off my 2002 330xi sometimes the oil light comes on just when i remove the key. its not red like on start up, but rather yellow and sometimes it stays on and sometimes it just goes off.

any others with same situation??
ps - i checked oil levels and it seems fine.
stg

zer2 · May 2002

Let me start by saying I don't work for Pennzoil or have any other relationship to Jiffy Lube, but in their defense I've watched the BMW mechanics change oil and Jiffy mechanics change oil. They do it the exact same way. First, remove filter (it's painfully easy since the filter is on top), next remove drain plug. Let oil run out. Screw drain plug back in. Put in new filter, then put in new oil. Done. Also, the BMW synthetic oil is made by Castrol and can be bought at Jiffy Lube. After the "free" (yeah right) maintenance, BMW charges about $150 for this process while Jiffy charges about $60, or do it yourself for less than half of that again. We're just talking about changing oil, not brain surgery. Now, for more complex diagnosis or repair I agree wholeheartedly with everyone else.

shipo · May 2002

When Brave1heart and I swapped cars, I was surprised at how similar my "Original" steering felt compared to his "Retro-ed" steering. That said, some of the same differences applied (as my 530i), his car has SP and mine did not, so, the 328i with its narrower tires, and larger diameter steering wheel should have made my steering, if anything, lighter, however, it was not (by the narrowest margin). When you drove the 530i, did you notice if it had the SP or not? I have never driven a 5-Series without the SP, but I do know that it has the same larger diameter 4-Spoke Steering Wheel as my old 328i, as well as the standard 225 section width All-Season (harder compound-easier to pivot) tires. All of this is a long way of suggesting that you might find a 530i SP to have similar steering feel to your 330i.

Best Regards,
Shipo

riez · May 2002

1pierce... Good to see there is at least one eternal optimist in the world. How much you wanna bet your estimate regarding the number of warranty trips is low??? And how many days will some warranty service trips take? BMW is not quite up to Lexus or Infiniti standard. I love my two BMWs, but I have had more service work in the first 20,000 miles than in the entire 80,000 miles I had my two Infinitii. And I'm already having to have work done on top of earlier work (e.g., sunroof and AM radio problems continue in my wife's).

mfeldman · May 2002

I drove a 530 with sp. Maybe its the power assist that's different -- more speed sensitive and thus lighter at very low speed. My 330 is definitely not a one han parallel parker. I like the heay weight on the freeway, but think more assist at lower speed would actually make it more responsive. Maybe the 530 has the best of both worlds; I didn't drive it on the freeway. Unless it is all perception, it is a little odd that all the retros don't appear to have the same feel (per other boards). Of course I (and a couple friends) still think I have a left/right imbalace, but the bmw rep doesn't think so.

shipo · May 2002

The flip side of that is my 328i, it saw the dealer exactly twice, for the 15,000 mile service and the 30,000 mile service. I should also mention that I had the "Seat-Belt Click" taken care of at the 30,000 service, but I consider that purly optional as I would never even have complained about it had I not known there was a fix for it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · May 2002

What year was the 530i SP that you drove? I wonder if there was a steering change on the 5er between 2001 and 2002 as there was for the 3-Series.

Best Regards,
Shipo

mjones6 · May 2002

I haven't had a chance to get back on this board for a while. Sorry if my question about the air bags sounded like I was a lawyer looking to stir up problems. I really wanted to hear some positive stories as well.

I now have my 330cic, it is a lot of fun. Got here quicker than expected produced 4/19 recieved 4/15.

Shipo, out of curiousity at a high level when do they deploy vs not. The manual says that the air bags deploy in some rollover crashes.

shipo · May 2002

Hmmm, since I am (unfortunately, I had a lot of fun when I did) no longer working in the Auto industry, I no longer have access to the engineers that create this stuff. Edmunds has a very nice write up on the evolution of airbags, which mention the latest generation of Smart Bags, which use Fuzzy Logic to determine when and how hard to fire the bag. It is my understanding that the smart bag systems (a version of which I believe is in use by BMW) take into account not only the severity and type of the accident event, but also the weight and (seat) location of the occupant(s). One of the goals of the latest (and future) rounds of airbag system design is to prevent airbag induced deaths by making the systems ever smarter and more flexible (which will make them fire less often), which, if you read the Edmunds article you will see statistic of 148 documented deaths. I also found another site that lists many of those deaths by various categories, interestingly enough; at the time this list was published (sometime in 1998) there were no deaths attributed to airbags in BMWs and only one in a Mercedes.

The following are the links to the sites that I have just referenced:

http://www.edmunds.com /ownership/driving/articles/43822/article.html
http://www.autosafety.org/Airbag/AdultDeath.pdf

The following links contain other airbag information that you might find of interest:

http://www.solid.ikp.liu.se /Research/po2.htm
http://www.ibl.vt.edu/research.htm
http://www.intellimec.com /products/controller.htm

I hope this helps. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

P.S.
For some reason this site is fussing about the above links being longer than 115 bytes (silly, I know), so please remove the spaces from the Edmunds, Solid and IntelliMec links.

mfeldman · May 2002

Recently drove the 2002. Ironically, before buying my 330 I drove a 2001 530and at the time thought the steering was heavy -- no doubt compared to the light steering of the pre-retro 330.

jean7of9 · May 2002

Hello to all. I have been reading this board daily for the last three months because I plan to procure the 03 330xi as a second car. While I am a regular contributor on the E-Class board, this is my first posting for this one. Since there are no hints available about the 03 model in North America I looked in Europe for the September model (equivalent to our 03). Both BMW France and Great Britain provide on their Web sites the following data for the 3.0l engine: Power-231 HP @ 5900RPM, Torque-300 Nm @ 3500 RPM (221 lb-ft). This is a small but welcome improvement. Meanwhile a friend who owns a BMW dealership in Europe is mailing me the Europeen datasheet of the September 3 series. I will post any relevant data. Please note that BMW France provide an excellent presentation for the new model in QuickTime format. Those of you who already drive a recent model can point out the subtle changes.
Jean

shipo · May 2002

I think that you will find that the EuroSpec power numbers for the 3.0 liter engine equate exactly to the 225 HP and 214 pounds of torque as posted for the U.S. spec cars. In other words, no change in power, just a slightly different yard stick. ;-)

As for changes for the 2003 model year, my guess is that there will be virtually no change for the sedan versions of the E46, however, there may be some minor face lifting for the Coupe and Convertible.

Best Regards,
Shipo

roc50mg · May 2002

The yellow light means you should check your motor oil and add a half a quart or so of oil to your car depending on how low you are. I encountered the same problem in my 330XI a few months after I got it. I thought it was odd at first because it didn't occur consistently, and I just ignored it for a while. It then started to occur more often and when I finally got the owner's manual out to have a look, it recommended adding oil.

One mistake I made was I added too much oil. After I checked on the dipstick, I thought I was really low on oil, but if you read the manual carefully, a low level on the dipstick equates to less than a quart. After I added the oil, the light hasn't come back on again. I think that it is not atypical for new bimmers to suck up half a quart of oil in the beggining.

Anybody else on the board have a different thought?

1pierce · May 2002

I am getting a 325i, no SP. All tires are the same size. I will rotate front-to-back only, no matter what BMW says. I understand that with the 330 SP, you can't rotate because the wheels are different sizes, and with directionals, you can't cross. I never cross anyway, even on my van.

I am referring to state inspections. I prefer to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. I have had bad experiences before with the "gas station around the corner". They always seem to find the burned out turn signal bulb that I know wasn't burned out when I dropped off the car, etc.. Otherwise, they can't cover their cost on inspections. Also, I had a minor sidewall (just barely in the sidewall) puncture in a fairly new tire once. It was plugged, and had been driven hard for months. No problems, whatsoever. Wouldn't pass state inspection, though, by the letter of the law, so the local BP failed me. I wasn't about to pay another $150 for a new tire and have one tire with different wear characteristics than the other three, so I took it to the Dealer. They either didn't catch it, or they let it go because they didn't want to make me mad. Either way, that tire passed two more times at the Dealer before it wore out. The Dealer has an incentive to keep you happy, especially if you lease.

dave330i · May 2002

It's usually means oil level's low. I'm surprised the oil level's correct in stgreen's case. I assume you checked correctly? Hard to tell what people experience level is over a message board.

Side view mirror: It turns out I did have the mirror adjust over to the passenger side. Once I moved it over to driver's side, it tilted again. It's something useful to know.

sunnybrook · May 2002

Wow, i didn't realize all the pent up anger many of you have towards this establishment. Not that I would ever take my new BMW there, but i wasn't sure if they even could do synthetic oil changes. Guess now I know...

1pierce · May 2002

Just my opinion, but...

I've taken my cars to the local Munroe (which is probably no better than Jiffy Lube) for years. My Maxima runs perfectly after about 12 oil changes there. An oil change is an oil change (I've done many myself) as long as you use a good filter, fill it to the right level, and it doesn't leak when its done. A monkey could almost do it. Other than the mess and inconvenience, I'd continue to change oil myself. What,...you guys think the oil changers at BMW are brain surgeons? They're probably the young guys that just graduated from lot attendant, and aren't good enough do real mechanic work, yet.

I'll take my BMW to the dealer until the free service and warranty runs out, then its back to Munroe, where an oil change costs $25, not $125. This free service is one thing that makes the car a good value, and allows BMW to do CPO with confidence.

The only other thing to consider is that the oil-change light on a BMW needs to be reset. I don't think this can be done by anybody but a Dealer. Can anybody help on this? If it can't be reset, then we may be stuck paying the price forever.

dave330i · May 2002

Who ever changes the oil, just make sure the right weight, right amount, and synthetic is used.

allano · May 2002

My daughter's 330xi had its yellow low-oil light come on after the ignition was turned off about eight months after delivery. I let the car sit for about 1/2 hour to allow oil to drain back into the oil pan, cleaned off the dip stick and found oil level just below the add mark. One quart filled it and keep it above 3/4 until her recent one-year service at 11,000 miles.
Naturally I check my 325xi wagon at the same time and found it about 5/8th full. At its one-year service (12,600 miles), oil level was at 1/2 between MT and full. Seems like the 330 uses more oil during break-in than the 325.
BTW, what are your dealers doing?. The dealer listed $34.97 (charge to warantee) for the oil change using the BMW branded filter, synthetic oil and adding windshield washer fluid. I heard another person, who's car was out of warantee, get charged the same thing for an oil change. At that cost and a car wash thrown in, I'll take it back to the dealer in a heart beat.

john01 · May 2002

"Who ever changes the oil, just make sure the right weight, right amount, and synthetic is used.", and make sure the drain plug is back in. Guy I used to work with took his car to Kmart, got the oil changed, left on a road trip. About 40 minutes into the trip, his engine seized. Apparently the plug must not have been tightened all the way, that everything had leaked out. Kmart ended up paying for a new engine.

1pierce,
You can purchase a simple tool for about $50 that will reset your oil light. You can even make one with a couple of wires and bits from Radio Shack. For $150, you can even get one that will read OBD codes. Try Peake Research. I often hear people changing the oil, but not reseting the lights, then during the Inspection I or II, they have the dealer reset the light. Some say the car will go right past the Inspection point mileage without turning on the light.

1pierce · May 2002

Brave: So BMW doesn't recommend rotation, even for non-SP wheels? I follow your logic, and if I were racing this car, I'd probably follow that direction. But, I can't believe that under normal driving, a 6,000 mi rotation will hurt handling in a noticeable way, especially on all-seasons. And, it will get you an extra 3-5,000 miles on your set of tires.

One other thing: I don't know about you guys, but my left front wheel is always the dirtiest on the car, my fronts are always dirtier than the backs (due to brake dust), and my left sides get dirtier on average than my rights. Probably because the car passes oncoming traffic on the left side. As such, I like to rotate my wheels so that they wear and take abuse evenly. Of course, I care more about the cosmetics of the car than many of you road racers.

The debate is always lively here, and very fair-minded. That's what I like.

1pierce · May 2002

I'm surprised that K-mart didn't argue that he lost the oil plug after he left the garage.

tcn2k · May 2002

I do the oil change myself before taking it to jiffy.

claywaterfill · May 2002

I am new to this board and just wanted to stop by for a second. First, when I saw the number of posts here, I figured it would be like the Protege board--a chat room. No helpful info, just a handful of Protege owners having a chat one message at a time. Not here. People who really care for their cars and list useful info for other owners and advice for those seeking a 3-Series. Thanks. Second, I got the July 2002 issue of Road & Track yesterday. If you don't know, the G35 won over the 330i (second place out of 11 entries). The G35 board has had gloating posts today wondering what BMW owners would be able to make up to say their cars are still better. If you haven't seen the article, the 330i was judged to be the best car and the car most of the testers would rather buy themselves. The fact that the G35 cost about $7000 less is the only reason why it won. I guess the G35 owners will now be able to use the Elantra method of reasoning--the car may not be as good, but it's cheaper--making it the one to own!Anyway, with three kids, there is no 3-Series in my future, so I'll be on my way. It's good to see a board around here with some useful information, though.

allano · May 2002

I'm sorry to seem critical, but your friend must not pay attention to his idiot lights. The first time I replaced the oil filter on my Honda, the rubber gasket of the old filter stuck to the engine. I put on the new filter, hand tightened it and went on a test-drive. All was well until I rev'ed the engine above 3000 rpm and the idiot light turned on. Looking back, I saw oil spread all over the road. I pretty much coasted back to the house, crawled under the mess and found my problem. The engine never seized and consumed oil at a rate of 1 quart in 6000 miles over the next 152,000 miles.
Sounds like his experience was as much his fault as the oil changer's.

allano · May 2002

Took a closer look at the bill. The $34.97 oil change was just for parts, no labor.

jean7of9 · May 2002

I am familiar with the different yardsticks. That is why I have done a careful conversion to the North American Standard separately from British and French Standards. Both come to the same conclusion. The only universal standard would be in Kilowatts (KW). The BMW web sites in Europe state the engine power to 170 KW which is equal to 231 HP. Here is another catch. The USA web site states the 0-60 acceleration of the 330xi in 6.9s. The UK web site states the acceleration of the new model 0-62 in 6.5s only. Then the lower American 330xi power can be caused by a different catalytic converter.
Jean

1pierce · May 2002

I agree. How could you drive with your oil light on until the engine seized, on the highway no less, right after an oil change? Why wouldn't you pull into the first gas station and buy a quart of oil - then you'd figure out the problem?

That guy was LUCKY he got his engine replaced.

Its called personal responsibility, people,...take some! OK, I admit, that was a little harsh.

ccchen1102 · May 2002

Starting yesterday, I've noticed that sometimes the fan speed goes high/low randomly, although the IHKA display shows it at a fixed level. This happens on both Auto and Non-Auto mode, does
anyone ever experience the same problem? Anyone knows the cause of this? Thanks.

john01 · May 2002

allano:
Well, I guess he is a decent attorney (yeah, he is a lawyer and he argued on it himself). He does have problem with those common sense stuff, though.

1pierce:
We could definitely use more of those all around.

Now back to our regular programming...........

shipo · May 2002

Hmmm, I remember reading somewhere that regardless of European country or USA or Canada, all BMWs of a specific model would have exactly the same power ratings. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the source of that little tidbit of information. It could be that the U.S. numbers are slightly understated, as are the acceleration numbers.

As for future changes, I would not bet on any engine changes until the Valvetronic system makes its way over here on the I6 engines, which, the last I heard, was going to be something like 2004. When that does happen, my guess is that the 3.0 I6 will produce something more like 270 HP.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart · May 2002

Oil change - you do it once every 15K or so - it's worth paying someone who knows what they're doing to do it. It's very simple, sure, but why take a risk with something so essential for the longevity of the engine?!?

Tire rotation - OK, a set of 4 tires costs say $600 and you get 25K miles out of them. That's 2.4 cents a mile. You rotate the tires and you get another 5K miles out of them. You just saved yourself $120 but paid about the same to rotate the tires every 6K miles. And pray you don't get warped rotors and or upset the balance of the car.

Magazine rankings - who cares? Automobile magazine is readying a comparo between the IS300 and the G35 for SECOND place because they say the first one is reserved for the 3-series. C&D already mentioned that the G35 does not measure up to the 3-series when pushed hard. But the G35 has all that extra horsepower. Great! the Mustang SVT has 390 HP and it is about the same price, if not even cheaper. Does it look, handles, sound, smell the same? Does it make you as happy driving it?

nyccarguy · May 2002

4/10 of a second difference wouldn't be due to the difference even if it was 225 HP (US) to 231 HP (US) which it isn't. There are so many variables when it comes to testing acceleration numbers like temperature, humidity, driver skill, driver weight. If you recall a car & driver article published within the last year comparing a 330Xi, S4, & WRX, they got the 330Xi to do 0-60 mph in something like 5.7 seconds (although the admitted that trying to do so on a day to day basis would fry one's clutch) BMW also pads its numbers for marketing purposes here in the US.

petrarch · May 2002

Took delivery of my new 325i on Friday!!! Big step up from my '89 Volvo. :-)

After two days, I noticed the infamous brake dust on the wheels. I'm about to order Klasse...

Do you folks use all-in-one on the car, too? How should it be applied (e.g., after a regular car wash), and what material should be used for application (e.g., micro fiber, terry-cloth towel, etc.)? Also, what about frequency of use?

dl7265 · May 2002

Regardless of miles, once a year. Thats my case, and uusually brake fluid changes once every 2 years however i learned the hard way you have to ask for it.
Ive had service a few times at my non purchasing dealer inspection, fix a flat ect, and it had been fine, these are not loaner car situations , but wait 45 minutes.

1pierce: only those oil changes and Insp 1 and
2 are gonna get your a loaner, at least a BMW loaner.

tire rotation: Discount tire will do it for free, however i dont like the marks left on the wheels from rebalancing.

DL

mg330ci · May 2002

Good luck on your bid

Rotation: Numerous posts about why is not worth to rotate tires on BMW, particularly since they do not recommend it. I will like to add that the 50/50% weight distribution is another factor against the need for rotation (compared to a nose heavy, FWD car). Also, remember that the rocket scientists at BMW will charge you an arm and a leg for a tire rotation, you know all the SKILL and TECHNICAL EXPERTISE involved in doing it!, so beware.

Loaner: I will advise you to read the fine print, the dealer from whom I lease mine, will only guarantee a loaner for routine covered service and NOT for warranty work, so again beware (hey they still gave me a great, (ok good) deal $1500 over invoice and low money factor).

Oil change: So you (or not you but other people) think BMW is much better than your local lube? Until recently, I used to change the oil on our cars myself. The single time my wife took our accord to this nice, shiny friendly smiley dealer (who even gave a loaner, wow, Honda, loaner wow), they forgot to replace the filler cap, which fortunately, was laying on top of the motor (I got lucky, something bothered me and as I opened the hood (after driving back 10 miles), I saw it) So for the 3rd time, beware (I know, Honda certified mechanics are not as skilled in changing oil as BMW certified mechanics, so this particular experience cannot be extrapolated, yada yada yada, fine, JMHO).

Use your free service at BMW of course, but after that, as long as you can reset the light and use the right oil, anybody, anywhere can do it. (Again, there is this dealership in Kansas City, beautiful place, good coffee and Danish, free soda (or pop depending where you are from), cute receptionist, it might be worth the trip) 

mg330ci · May 2002

I am sorry to hear you had so many problems with your bimmer.

I don't know, but if a car causes me so many problems, probably I would not buy it again.

I hope your beammer is providing you with many smiles on the road to overcome those dealer visits. (or perhaps the recepcionist are your dealership is also cute (:-)

mg330ci · May 2002

Well, I dont know, in paper looks like a great car. WAIT, what is this, NO MANUAL TRANSMISSION!!!

In my book, that is a no-no.

I will give it a chance next time. Competition is great, lowers the price of the cars, increases the incentives, forces the companies to improve on each other.

I love the G35, the IS300, the A4. I am a car enthusiast.

Please, GIVE US MORE GREAT CARS, so you guys can debate about them, car magazines can sell more comparo issues, and we can buy our next one for less!!!

Hey, thanks to Nissan, BMW will probably increase the HP of the engine in the future without increasing the price. add more standard futures, so I can lease a better BWM next time. Thanks Nissan, thanks Infinity, I LOVE the G35!!!!!

vkwheels · May 2002

You don't rotate tires any which way on a BMW? Oil changes every 15K (not every 3.5-5K)? Wow. News to me, I'll have to RTFM, as they say. Jiffy vs. dlr--IMO quality of work will hinge on the person doing the job rather than the establishment. I wouldn't blindly avoid or go to either one. No, it doesn't take a genius, but it takes someone who is conscientious about his work, replaces caps, tightens screws, checks around, doesn't leave a mess, etc. I've used coupons for cheaper places, now I ignore them all & stick to the shop where the guys are good & the owner cares. I'll use the BMW dealership for my new car, whether they earn my trust to carry on with them is yet to be seen.
Tchau for now, VK

nobee · May 2002

long time no see. hope you're still having fun with your new bmw!

-nobee

derprofi · May 2002

...and I just can't get over how much better, sportier, classier, etc. my '02 330i looks. I sure am glad that the extra $ wasn't a problem for me. But even if I had to settle for an ugly car due to financial reasons, I'd sooner get a WRX than a G35. Just my $0.02, of course.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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