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http://www.eurobuyers.com/
hpman: Welcome back. It sounds as though we did similar trips. Can't wait to hear about your adventure. Now the wait begins . . .
ButMyWife
-Chris
Based on where I live and work, they are really the only dealer that is realistic for me to use, so I'd like to know other's experiences before I make the purchase...
Thanks.
I'm thinking about buying a 330i and am curious how easy to use the BMW Navigation system is. I have Nav on my current car and love it and definitely want it in my next car.
(Not looking for a debate about the merits of Navigation in general -- been there, done that...)
Staggering Tires: Brave: Isn't it obvious. Given the level of arrogance (I guess I'm just as bad as the next) on this Board, nobody is talking about this because almost nobody really understands, or can explain the advantages/disadvantages in a coherent manner. I'd actually like to hear a little more about this myself. Do they do this on race cars?
Invoice Price: Several dealers told me that invoice pricing from BMW increased this spring. My numbers still aligned with theirs (maybe the publications were up-to-date) with the exception of MACO.
Acquisition Fee: Saw a question on this from early in the week, without a sufficient answer. BMW Financial charges a whopping acquisition fee on all leases (about $550-600 on a 325i). They also charge first month's payment, and a security deposit equal to a month's payment rounded to the next $50. That means you will spend over $1,500 down, before your cash begins to reduce the finance amount. Even with a partially subsidized lease, I got a better lease deal from my credit union. I advise leasers to shop around.
New England: I just spent a week in Boston on business and pleasure. Rented a car (Hyundai Sonata - company was paying). Neat city. Lots of BMWs and Audis - way higher percentage than in Pittsburgh. Awful driving habits around the city. Very aggressive, too fast, bordering on wreckless. Reminded me of driving in Italy, how cars fill every void at intersections. Took the scariest cab ride of my life. I had a great time in the city, and it was a great trip, but I'm glad to be back in Pgh. Something about going 90 mph bumper to bumper with a semi on 93N in a Sonata that made me a little queasy.
Being on the board for long (since post 1000) along with a number of other Bimmer boards, I'd like to share my opinion on the board in general from my own experience. Edmunds is like a 4-year state college. Everybody gets in, begins his Bimmer education here, and shares his excitement about the brilliant engineered car. We all have quite a few good memories here. We all meet some kind and knowledgable guys who you wish you can always talk to. But here is still an undergraduate school where most discussions are entry level, not a graduate one. There are a limited number of excellent faculty members. Professor Shipo and brave1heart can not (and should not) comment and answer all questions. When you become a senior, you do not learn as much from here, you need further odyssey in addition to your own studies to find your answers. In my case, bimmerfest and e46fanatics have been helpful.
Saying so does not mean I do not love the board and I am not back. Like every alma mater, you always pay attention to it and celebrate its growth. Shipo and brave1heart, you always have my vote for the dean. Cheers!
Ummm! Do you like to smoke your rear tires on every stop light ddblue? (;-)
You spread this thing on the calipers and it lives them like new.
Now, the question is, would it be safe to use on alloy wheels??
most passenger cars are set up so that they have a slight amount of understeer. using staggered tires helps to reverse this and may even lead to oversteer. the reason is that a lower profile back tire will have a shorter and stiffer sidewall and will be more likely (relative to the front) to lose grip and swing out. All in all, the result is a more balanced car in the turns as opposed to the original understeer. If this is wrong please let me know, I'm no expert.
Also, Michelin Pilots come in HX and Sport models. We have the HX on our 328 and they seem to be real nice compromise between sport driving and everyday use. The Sport model is more high end for maximum performance.
-Paul
Thanks for the welcome Riez.
JingleJill is back...(I never really left)
I had a 2 month exercise in stupidity.
BMW is the ultimate driving machine. (Are the flames going to start?)
Riez...I promise to post more.
JingleJill
While I am not expert either, I believe that moving to a wider tire in the rear (wider than stock) will actually promote more understear. Having a wider contact patch in the rear (your aspect ratio will most likely remain the same, for instance, a 330 has 225/45 in front and 225/40 in back, both profiles are the same in actual distace from the wheel to the road) will reduce the tendacy for the tail of the car to come out in turns.
For instance, if my 330 had 185 width tires on the back and I gave it full throttle upon exiting a turn near the corning limits of the car, the skinny rear tires would give way before the wider (225) fronts would, thus leading to massive overstear. On the other side of that coin, if I put 295 width tires (assuming they would fit in the wells) on the rear, it would be nearly impossible for me to break the tires loose with the throttle in hard cornering because the fronts would loose traction first and just push through the turn.
Using this logic, having a wider than stock rear tire would give you better traction in the back in both cornering and accelerating. The stock front tires would loose grip before the rears in hard cornering, and lead to increased understear.
Hope this rubbish makes sense to someone... and again, I'm no expert.
Best,
hpman
Doh!
hpman
What else was in the $2,300 you paid up front? My dealer (actually all three I went to) assured me that the only three things I had to pay were first month, acqu. fee, and security deposit. All three dealers computed this total very consistently, too. Your monthly payment must be pretty high (thus bumping up first month and security deposit) to get to $2,300, or else they slipped something else in there. What year is your car? Regardless, $775 seems outrageous.
That said, I'm not sure what you can do, if you've already taken delivery,...other than appeal to their good nature, and ask for a partial refund. Wanna bet how far that will get you?
As for our BMWs, it doesn't seem that excessive oversteer is a problem, which leads me to believe that the staggered tires are really just for looks, since they would be considered "more aggressive".
Just my very un-expert opinion. ;-)
To avoid this tail-happy scenario, BMW increased the rear grip of the 330 by widening the tires to 245 to compensate for the added power being applied.
Some more rubbish for a amateur...
hpman
Best wishes,
Ed
I've dug myself out of that hole and now I am driving a little Miata until I get myself in another BMW.
I have returned and I will never leave again. ;o)
JingleJill
What hpman said about staggered tires sounds right to me. I took his example to an extreme (think bicycle tires vs. very wide tires) and the oversteer/understeer impact became more apparent. I think staggered tires would make a lot of sense in a car with a very short wheelbase that has initial oversteer like the 911. The much wider rear tires help overcome the initial oversteer and convert the oversteer to understeer when you get on the gas. I am not that certain about the advantages of staggered tires in a car with a much longer wheelbase and perfect weight distribution, though. From the boards that I've been reading, it seems that 330 owners have been having a lot more oversteer issues with their staggered tires and it is common for them to bump up the fronts' tire pressure 3-4 psi above the rears' for track events to achieve a more neutral feel...
I found a used 3-series with Nav to test drive before I bought just to try it out. I think it is mostly acknowledged that the German car makers (BMW and Audi anyway) lag significantly behind their Lexus and Acura rivals in the Nav system business.
To make a way long post short(er), you dial in the information and it gets you where you want to go. Guess that's the whole purpose.
Hmmm, $25 per thousand? Maybe I am missing something, however, the houses we have looked at have been more in the $12 per thousand category, which to be quite honest, I found a little funny in light of the fact that the agents were apologizing for how high the taxes were. Do you know of the $25 rate is for all of NH, or just specific areas? The good news is that we came to an agreement with the builder of the house we wanted in Windham today, and we are set for a 31-July closing. ;-) That said, as this is a new house, the specific tax bill has not yet been calculated.
Don,
While I am not saying it is impossible, I have NEVER heard of what amounts to “Self Bleeding Brakes”. I think somebody was feeding you a line of HoooHaaa. ;-)
Bing330i,
Wow, I think I am blushing. ;-)
Sunnybrook,
Hmmm, Michelin Pilots. Ok, next question. Which of the following version of the truth are they?
Michelin Pilot Sport
Michelin Pilot SX MXX3
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S
Michelin Pilot HX MXM
Michelin Pilot Primacy (which came on my 530i SP)
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
Dan__2,
Hmmm, a $775 acquisition fee? I think you got ripped, I only paid $500, which as I understand it, is the basic BMWFS fee. So, unless you financed via an alternative source, somebody (you dealer?) put some padding in there.
Brave1heart,
Yup, now I really am blushing. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
-murray
On a non-M 3-series, I think the larger rear tires are mostly for looks (and to assure understeer). With more HP, fatter rear tires will keep you hooked up in the hard corners (Viper, Vette, Porsche). I'm not an expert either, but it's fun to try to become one.
now, why does it work?
2 hints..
1) think circumference, not width...
2) what do you do to your front tires when you autocross?
-Chris
I am not suggesting anything here so please do take it the wrong way. If they really waived the fee, I will check them out when I am ready to buy the next BMW.
Question: Is understeer the same as having a "tight" racing condition - i.e. the front tires want to push up the race track on turns? And conversely, is oversteer the classic "loose" condition, where the rear wheels want to swing around? I understand "tight" and "loose" from watching alot of Winston Cup racing. If this is the case, then my Maxima definitely suffers from an understeer condition in hard driving, where my old Grand Prix GTP w/Goodyear Eagle GT's was always loose at the limit, or oversteering.
My understanding is that the fastest handling race car is one that is slightly (controllable) loose. I guess a "neutral" car would be next fastest, and a tight car is the slowest through turns.
Do I have a handle on this, or can someone set me straight?
stagger is really important in nascar (as with all racing, it's just more easily "noticeable" with oval track racing)... why? because you turn left all the time... it's more important on short tracks than superspeedways... they will stagger the tires so that the inside tire is smaller in cirumference than the outside tire... this means that the car when pointed "straight", wants to turn to the inside (think about why a bowling ball curves)... this allows them to get through the corners better... the reason you don't want too much stagger on a superspeedway is that you have to "turn" the car to get it to go straight and you would cook the tires if you had to "turn" it constantly down the straights... somewhere like martinsville (for instance) you'd run a considerable amount of stagger... somewhere like michigan, you'd run a lot less... you can then fine-tune by adjusting air pressures (i.e. up a pound, down a pound) to reach a neutral condition...
-Chris
I was unimpressed by Passport because their service wasn't quite as good and they were proced higher.
In my case, my car hit the port on 15-May-2002, made it to my dealership on 22-May-2002 and I took delivery a day later. In my book, that means that your delivery is imminent. Keep us posted. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Yes, I saw Star Wars. hehehe
-Paul
Dale: i dont buy it either, and due to said "coverups" i would not recommend Moritz in Arlington.The customer service is good , but not sure where the mechanics come from.
DL
Thus, there is my problem. I'm not patient. "I want it now!!!" (Remember the famous line from Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory?)
I called Garyln Shelton in Bryan (I originally bought there when it was Fred Brown) and they offered me $400 off MSRP. I laughed. Then he said to call him back with an offer. I haven't done that yet.
I then contacted Park Avenue in NJ (all via e-mail) and their prices are very fair.
I then sent a "match-it or beat-it" to one of the dealerships in Houston. The "internet sales manager" wished he could match it, but the car I want doesn't exist. Yada yada yada...I replied that of course it does, you ORDER it. (It really shouldn't surprise me...I haven't heard good things about the Houston dealerships.
I haven't even tried the BMW Center in SA. (I still cringe just thinking about them.) I had a nice test drive experience at JR in Austin. No pressure what so ever.
I just wish some of the dealerships had what I want to drive.
So, there I am...will my lack of patience get the better of me? Hmmm, time will tell...
(Here I am typing this and thinking what can I do this weekend? Maybe go drive some BMWs...sheesh, I'm addicted. SAVE ME!!!)
You're in Austin, right? Refresh my memory.
Stacy
Cutter - Santa Barb
Riverside - Chris Johnson
Alhambra - Eddie Yeh
Sterling - Newport Beach, Tina
Pacific - Glendale
In understeer condition, you go wide of intended line due to fronts losing traction; in oversteer, your line tightens due to rears losing traction. Factors affecting include weight distribution, chassis/suspension tuning, and amount of rubber on the road. Rubber on road = contact patch, determined by tire circumference and tread width (also tire construction). For platforms employing both equal and staggered configurations (like 3 and 5 series), manufacturing economies dictate equal circumference at all four corners. Therefore, circumference is eliminated as a variable, leaving tread width. So, naturally oversteering cars might run wider rears to neutralize the oversteer to some desired degree.
The first production car with wider rear tires tires I ever saw was the original Porsche 930 Turbo of the mid-70s. Made sense -- big rear weight bias + big torque = big tendency to swap ends for drivers with more bucks than brains.
So why are front-engined cars like 330i SPs, 540i6s, and M cars staggered? Even front-engined cars can be made to oversteer, and maybe BMW figures that buyers of these variants would be the most likely to get into such situations.
Anyways i just had a thought , how long is your assigment in Germany ? The 2006 World cup is there. im thinking a great time for a ED we might have to rent a room from yall.
DL
What did you end up with, options, etc...?
Assignment in Germany is anywhere from 3 to 5 years. If we go, we sign on for 3 with a possible extension for an additional 2 years. (This is all speculative...I'm still waiting word.)
Stacy