BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

tcn2k · July 2002

If you want big HP for your price, get a mustang and forget the nissans and it's counter [non-permissible content removed] cars. Good old american classic, get you there on some days, and others will be at Ford getting warranty work done.

kdshapiro · July 2002

We're not comparing one manufacturer to another. We're looking a broad trends, not saying how one car compares to another. Today the sweet spot is 3.0, tomorrow it's moving to 3.3 and 3.5 liters. That's a bad trend. Not that you shouldn't be allowed to buy bigger engines, but the trend toward bigger is a harmful one to the environment.

Maybe manufacturers ought to skinny down the size and boost performance with turbos and superchargers. But that has it's own set of isses.

nyccarguy · July 2002

I was actually never a fan of forced induction until I bought my Saab. I love that low end turbo torque and my engine seems to never "run out of breath." Neither does a BMW I-6 though. There are lots of arguements for and against forced induction whihc I don't plan to venture into. I do like how different manufacturers get similar power from numerous different engine configurations. These different engines are almost part of the manufacturers brand identity.

BMW does it with an I-6, Audi does it with a 5 valve per cylinder V6 & Turbo 4, Mercedes-Benz does it with a 3 valve per cylinder V6 (although I read their switching back to 4 valve in the next few years)...

leenelsonmd · July 2002

A 3.0 liter 330 with 260HP (maybe utilizing valvetronic) and weighing only 3000lbs would be a dream.

I have to say that HP is not everything, but it is something. Additional HP means smoother and more effortless acceleration at any level whether you intend to go 0-60 in 6 seconds or 12. I am in the market for a new BMW, but I am seriously considering waiting another year since the 2003 is virtually unchanged. There is nothing wrong with the current 330, but the car does not exist in a vacuum. The entire market segment has shifted with the '03 model year and BMW cannot ignore this (and I am sure that they have not). Look at what happened to the 318--for those who own one, it may still bring satisfaction, but no owner of an E46 330 would be able to stand that car for more than about 10 minutes.

Does anyone speculate about a mid year change?

Will the 330 ever get a 6speed manual? The G35 raises the bar -- the coupe will have 275HP and a 6 speed.

What will 2004 hold?

Should I wait or should I just pull the trigger and get an '03 330? All opinions welcome.

1pierce · July 2002

This is just MHO, but I don't expect any significant changes in the 3-series for the remainder of this model line. It will get one or two new standard features each year (like the armrest, or similar), and a few new colors, wheels, etc., but I'd be shocked to see an engine change. As someone said earlier, 184 HP out of that 2.5L is pushing the limits. I doubt they could tweak it to 200HP. And nobody complains about the 330i, which was just upgraded from the 328i a couple years ago, so that will probably not be touched either. I'm sure I'll be quite happy w/my 2002 325i for the life of the lease.

That said, I agree 100% that a little more HP makes acceleration more effortless at all speeds and in all situations. This is especially true for those of us with automatic, who drive in hilly terrain. It might make the difference between a downshift or a smoother acceleration. That's the great thing about my Maxima (190HP but gobs of low end torque). It will hold a gear on a hill like nobody's business, and feels REALLY strong below 3,000 RPM. Of course, some of this is the rather sluggish transmission, but the car can get away with it without bogging down on hills like most cars w/slow automatics.

1pierce · July 2002

One more thing: I think the new model 3-series will come out in 2005. Can anyone corroborate that? These BMW models usually last for about 6 years.

If I were you, and I was ready for a car, (and I could afford a 330 - you lucky dog!), I'd just pull the trigger and get the 2003 330i. If you lease for 3 years, you can replace it with the new model when it comes out. Also, you always get a worse deal on a brand new model, and no first year model, on average, even a Toyota or Honda, is as reliable as the second or third years, and so on. I've read documented evidence of that.

leenelsonmd · July 2002

Thanks. You may be right that I should just go ahead and get it. I am spending every waking moment thinking about it and so it is likely the money spent will be good for both a new car and increased productivity. I am reluctant, only because I like to keep cars a while (until about 100k miles) and so the 330 may seem outdated in 7-8 years.

As far as affording it--I would not say that. I think that it is a matter of priorities mostly. We each spend our money as we see fit and I have only two priorities: house and car (kids and wife are constants and so I do not count them). I probably should be buying stock given the low prices, but I just have different priorities.

When will the E46 change? I thought 2005 as well, but I wonder sometimes if 2004 will be the year given such a paradigm shift in the market.

An additional consideration--look at the stiff new rule that California just imposed for the year 2009 or something like that that says that car emissions will be regulated like all other green house gas emissions--We may find that we will all be driving 900cc BMWs that get 75mph and go 0-60 in 24 seconds soon. Is it time to buy now and get the muscle car out of your blood before they are taken away completely?? It will happen soon.

Opinions welcome.

locke2c · July 2002

Well, if BMW ever makes a sportbike with 1/3 of an F1 engine that would be a 900cc inline triple... I could see myself owning one of those! Would do 0-60 in more like 2.4 seconds though. ;-)

First they need the GP1 racebike though. Ah, dreams.

-Colin

gotenks243 · July 2002

"We're not comparing one manufacturer to another. We're looking a broad trends, not saying how one car compares to another. Today the sweet spot is 3.0, tomorrow it's moving to 3.3 and 3.5 liters. That's a bad trend. Not that you shouldn't be allowed to buy bigger engines, but the trend toward bigger is a harmful one to the environment."

I understand you're looking at broad trends. All I meant to show with my post is that a move to bigger engines is not ~necessarily~ more harmful to the environment. I don't know why I'm using Lexus as an example again, but anyways, a GS430 with a 4.3 liter V8 only gets two worse highway mpg (same city) as a 3.0 liter I6 GS300, while giving off less emissions (ULEV instead of LEV). I'm just trying to point out that bigger is not necessarily ~worse~ or necessarily a ~harmful trend~.

Mike

seivwrig · July 2002

Some interesting points were made on this HP issue. Especially in reference to the power band. With most people living in cities over most of the globe, the low end power is probably where it is at anyway.

As far as great changes in the engine displacement, I think we will have to wait and see what is done with the 2003 5er. Currently, the 3er has the following engines: 1.6L (4-cyl), 1.8L (4-cyl), 2.0L (4-cyl), 2.5L (6-cyl), 3.0L ( 6-cyl), 3.2L (6-cyl, M3&M3 CSL), 4.0L (V8, M3 GTR). I could see BMW going to 3.0L and 3.2L(maybe 3.5L if it does not undercut the M3) for the 3er. I can realistically see a 6-speed in the 330i for 2003.5 only because the Z4 3.0L will have a six-speed. But I really think as far as engines go, we will need to wait for the 5er. The current 535i, has a 3.5L engine with 245 BHP this is not much more than the 330i 3.0L engine with 231 BHP.

riez · July 2002

LSD is a performance enhancer. It improves acceleration, both straightline and esp. in hard cornering. Traction and stability control systems are primarily safety enhancers. They work best primarily at low speeds. Most use brakes, throttle, and transmission (automatics) to cut output to a wheel; they won't increase output to a wheel (in non-4WD systems).

You'll notice that most automotive test reports will discuss maximum performance figures with TC and SC systems turned off.

Just read the recent press raves over cars like the Acura 3.2CL Type S 6-speed manual with LSD. Transforms the car's performance.

TC and SC systems cost money. So does LSD. Most buyers don't understand the critical differences between the two. Many wrongly think TC and SC systems can replace LSD. They don't, since they do completely different things. But buyers think TC and SC are more modern. Must be better than old, inferior LSD. So if a company wants to save money and not alienate buyers, eliminating LSD is the best of both worlds. Foolish buyers think their TC and SC systems completely replaced it. And the manufacturer doesn't have to spend the money on LSD.

But notice that BMW wisely keeps LSD for the M3 and M5. A true high performance sedan or coupe has to have it. And BMW knows it! But the average 3 or 5 Series or 7 Series buyer won't even know what they are missing. They'll go ape for the alphabet soup TC and SC systems. Too bad. In past, going back many decades, you usually could get LSD as either standard or optional equipment on most BMWs. BMW's decision to drop LSD in most models reflects move away from performance toward luxury and as pure cost cutting in a market that can't figure out what is truly beneficial to performance. Sad.

kdshapiro · July 2002

I understand you're looking at broad trends. All I meant to show with my post is that a move to bigger engines is not ~necessarily~ more harmful to the environment. I don't know why I'm using Lexus as an example again, but anyways, a GS430 with a 4.3 liter V8 only gets two worse highway ...

That is not true. Bigger engines contribute more carbon dioxide to than smaller engines period. Even though the other NOx emmisions may be lower. Carbon dioxide is a contributor to global warming. 2 miles per gallons over millions of vehicles and their associated contributions make a significant difference. Again, I'm not an environmental wacko, but to dismiss or poo-poo the trend as not relavent in the aggregate is an incorrect view.

Why would BMW put an LSD in vehicles such as M3 and M5, that can do 0-60 and run rings around 98% of the cars anyway. To me it's not a cost saving measure because for $70gs people will fork over another $300 to outfit your M5 with it. My guess is they wisely decided the complexity of offering it vs the incremental performance benefit wasn't there. Doesn't seem right for a car company not to soak you for more money with additional options, if they can.

riez · July 2002

kdshapiro... LSD is not that complex. Certainly not when compared to ABS, TC, and SC systems. LSD has been around for decades. Performance cars had LSD back in the 1950s and 1960s.

BMW has to put LSD in cars like M3 and M5. Performance enthusiasts would rebel at a car that lacked such an important performance enhancing device. But BMW saves a bit of money by just going with ABS, TC, and SC in the other 3, 5, and 7 Series vehicles. And these buyers haven't figured out what they are missing.

Look at how many of today's BMW buyers pass on the Sport Package or buy an automatic transmission instead of a manual transmission. In USA BMW is perceived as a high quality luxury marque that has performance capabilities. Value of LSD is lost luxury buyers let alone on a non-Sport automatic transmission 325i or 525i.

kdshapiro · July 2002

How many Euro spec BMWs are sold with LSD? I'm not saying it's not a performance enhancment, I'm asking how much does one really gain over not having it. I'm talking about real gains, not theoritcal this is what you're missing.

mg330ci · July 2002

I strongly believe, that a 6-speed transmission on a car with 3 liter, <300hp motor is no more than a marketing gimmick. It does not provide any advantages and actually, will probably confuse you more when shifting.

I smooth, slick, short throw 5-speed is all a BMW needs. Just make it right, just make it even better. How about shortening the throw, a la S2000 or Miata range?

riez · July 2002

kdshapiro... Don't know what percentage of BMWs now or in past had LSD. All I know is that nearly all of the real high performance models did. Probably darn near all M Series. Can't imagine an M without LSD. And to get the most out of it, you have to turn off the TC/SC systems. They defeat performance. LSD enhances performance.

You should check out all the ads for LSDs. Everyone from Dinan to Quaife and a zillion others all have LSDs for BMWs. There is a huge demand for this performance product. Can't imagine anyone seriously upgrading their new or old BMW without first ensuring it has LSD! Serious person knows better.

And check out all the articles in general automotive press (R&T, C&D, MT, AW) and BMW-related press (Roundel, Bimmer, European Sports Car) that extol the clear virtues and benefits of LSD.

Lack of LSD is the one biggest gripe I have about my 540i6. A huge deliberate cost-cutting oversight on BMW's part. And probably an attempt to ensure that M5 owners believe they are getting all they can for their extra $15,000-$20,000.

locke2c · July 2002

kdshapiro,

I humbly submit that a limited slip differential's importance depends largely on 3 factors:

1) vehicle use
2) wheels driven
3) horsepower & torque

A RWD sedan with reasonable power--by today's standards; outstanding power not so many years ago-- may not need an LSD because of its use. (did anyone read my Z3 vs. 3er post?) It's OK to smoke tire a little, or to have traction control cut it abruptly, if you're using it for touring and mundane (but enjoyable) transportation. when you are using it for motorsport, the lack of a limited slip differential is HUGE. or even just driving a little hard.

Your example earlier about FWD sedans needing them isn't because it's a "Type S", it's because they are FWD. Putting all the power down to just one wheel AND expecting that wheel to do some cornering too just isn't going to work. Sadly, the days are long gone when no sensible person would purchase a FWD vehicle with sporty intent, but I believe that's a whole 'nother topic. And Chris probably remembers me discussing it at length in technical minutia in those topics... ;-)

-Colin

bmw323is · July 2002

I bought a 2000 323. Oh no, in 2001 they came out with a 325 with 14 more HP. You know what they say - "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck."

By the way, while my car has 14 less horsepower, it has 6 more lb-ft of torque and weighs 100 pounds less.

Get a 2003 and enjoy it!

visordoc · July 2002

All this talk about how the 3'er should have a manual 6 speed to match this or that car (ie. TL-S, upcoming G35) has gotten me to add my $0.02.

Whether rightly or wrongly, I note that 0-60 times are probably the most important stat, in that consumers and car mags/reviewers pay attention to when comparing cars. I've noticed that most if not all manuals (including the other cars with 6 speeds mentioned above) have gearings that just get past 60mph at the end of 2nd gear near or at redline. (If someone doubts me, just browse through some car specs in a brochure or magazine.) What this means is only one shift is needed to do 0-60, which is important because even a semi-pro can only shift as fast as 0.1-0.2 secs. So the less shifts, the less time is added to the 0-60 run, which is good because the engineers want to optimize this time. Another shift to get to 60mph will only add 0.1-0.2 secs more. The remaining 3rd to 5th or 6th gears then gets spaced out accordingly to achieve whatever top speed and highway mileage figures they have in mind.

My parting question then, to those who want 6 speeds: why stop at 6? Why not get 7 or 10 speeds instead? A tractor-trailer truck has that many, but more does not necessarily mean better or faster.

jjsmitty69 · July 2002

I just took delivery of my 2002 325XI. What a great car! I have a question for all of the experts. How do I program the Key Memory? I have the seat and mirror memory down, but I am unable to program the individual keys. Is there a trick to this? The salesman attempted to show me but he couldn't get it to work. He suggested I read the owners manual. I did but it states to take it to the dealer to program. Is there a way for me to do this?

postoak · July 2002

Okay, I've gotten my ED photos placed on a CD and want to provide a link to them. What's the most painless way to get them on a site somewhere? Last night I tried roadfly as I noticed Brave1heart used that site. Two problems there: 1) it has a 9-photo limitation and I've got about 15 or 20 and 2) even working with only 9 I got a "size limit exceeded" message and nothing loaded. Then I tried cardomain. I was able to upload 1 photo, but then I'm supposed to know how to place them on my own webpage -- I don't think that's what I want to do. I just want to post the photos where you can click on them in turn, as I've seen you guys do. Help!

john01 · July 2002

Try www.imagestation.com. It is owned by Sony so you get some junk emails once in a while, but you get free space for pictures and videos, virtually unlimited. They provide simple way to upload pictures. Yahoo also provides free space for pictures, I think.

tenet1 · July 2002

Go to picturetrail.com. You will be up in no time

postoak · July 2002

that I want to avoid getting junk email. However, I guess it is okay to enter my "pseudo" email address (that's what I call the ones provided by yahoo, etc.).

I'll try these tonight. Unfortunately, the photo-clerk decided not to convert my photo of the instrument panel when I'm going 134 MPH -- probably because it is a fuzzy picture -- so I have to wait until tonight to get it.

ccotenj · July 2002

1) the 3er doesn't NEED a 6 speed... it wouldn't do it really any good at all. an extra gear doesn't mean it's better, it just means it has an extra gear... don't know about anyone else out there, but first, second and third in my e36 are plenty short... just because "so and so has a 6 speed" doesn't mean bmw needs one...

2) lol colin... yea, i remember... i wish you had made it over to my current fwd v. rwd topic where i had one person INSISTING that because you were turning the drive wheels it would turn better... also, thanks for injecting a little sense into the LSD discussion... i'm gonna take a wild guess that the majority of the posters on this board (you and me and a few others excluded) couldn't tell the difference between a lsd equipped car and a non-equipped one...

yes, riez, they all have it, but i wouldn't call it a HUGE demand, there is SOME demand... they have a billion other "performance products" too... if you've got that big a gripe about it, put one in, for crying out loud, call up zionsville, get a used one, and have a mechanic put it in... that being said, this statement:

"Can't imagine anyone seriously upgrading their new or old BMW without first ensuring it has LSD! Serious person knows better."

wouldn't be true... serious person knows that suspension and tire upgrades are gonna buy them a heckuva lot more...

ok, everyone, be honest (you stay outta this colin, i KNOW how you drive...

)... how many times do you actually light up the traction control light on your dash? i'm willing to bet not very often...

-Chris

nymadi · July 2002

I'm close to buying a 2002 BMW 325i here in Houston and the quotes I've been getting so far are all around $1500 over invoice which I think are reasonable if the MY 2003 wasn't around the corner with a couple of extra standards (rain sensors & Auto headlights).
Do you guys think I should be more aggressive or just wait for the 2003 model? I'm afraid I'll be taking a chance not knowing the price increase for the MY 2003.

nyccarguy · July 2002

I wonder if BMW would offer an LSD maybe as a standalone option (a few hundred bucks) or possibly as part of the Sport Package. Just a thought. Oddly enough my Dad's 2001 Infiniti QX4 has LSD that he got as part of a package. A big 4500 lb truck is the last place you'd need an LSD (for performance reasons). He says it works well. In light snow he has a hard time gauging whether or not the LSD is helping him get going or the 4WD.

locke2c · July 2002

chris,

I don't have traction control but my LSD is working quite well. There's nothing better than smelling the stink of new tires when you sidestep the clutch at 5k rpm and crank the wheel hard right... A few brief moments of wheelspin, sideways drama and then and you're GONE.

:-D

by and large I baby my M3 though, don't get me wrong.

-Colin

kominsky · July 2002

I think a 6th gear would be nice to have, but only as an over-drive. I would, personally, keep 1st through 5th exactly as they are.

erickpl · July 2002

Congrats to the poster with the new xi. Yet another AWD!

1. As for the key memory, I think it works like this:

2. Set your settings on your buttons on the side first (I'll assume one for you and one for your spouse).

3. Lock your door with your key.

4. Unlock your door with your key.

5. Press the setting you want (the button on the side you wanted for your settings).

I believe the key memory only remembers the settings that you last used with that key. So if you set your memory on your seat first, then set it the way you want, it should work.

Keep in mind, I don't have power seats. Most of this info I gathered from old posts.

Congrats on your xi. You'll love it.

-Paul

http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

rshaw11 · July 2002

Many of the memory features of the key and auto need to be setup by your dealer. Contact them and they will give you a form to select the options you want programed. The first programming should be free.

jean_k · July 2002

I have 2 days to pick a car. Plus it's the classic trade off question. Would you pick a BMW 330i or a 325xi? I live ine rainy rainy weather so having an all wheel drive is very nice. But so is the extra hoursepower and torque you get in a 330. BMW owners who have experienced both and live in rainy/cold weather. What would you do? Get a 325xi or a 330i?

Thanks

J

mg330ci · July 2002

Comes one about every other day

, and on those days, about 2-3 times

Almost always happens on this 90o corner in which I am accelerating from standing.

It actually surprised me at the beginning how often the system would come in. I guess, being my first RWD, and powerful as it is, I should have expected this behavior.

I need to try driving in an empty parking lot w/o the DSC to really get a fill of how many times it has actually save my but, or does it interferes to early, sooner than what you really need it to? Is it to conservative in its threshold?

nyccarguy · July 2002

I say go with the 330i. It should handle fine for those rainy days. The BMW DSC-X AWD system (on the 325xi) won't do that much for you in the rain (as opposed to Audi's Quattro System). If you said you lived in a snowy region then that would be a different story.

mg330ci · July 2002

You should do fine in the rain with the 330. Don't need 4WD for rain. Enjoy the extra oommp.

Nevertheless, if you are a conservative guy, obsess with safety, by no means, get the 4wd, that way, your mind will be happy and you will be able to sleep better at night.

Bottom line:
If the car was for me, I'll get the 330.
If the car is for a loved one, I'll get the 325 4WD (or better yet, a hummer, 0-60 in 4min flat or is it infinity, ugly monster, who cares if it gets scratch, who cares if it crashes?, and if you do, you would not be going very fast anyway

ccotenj · July 2002

i personally think that for regularly skilled (like most of us out here) folks, it's not too conservative... i know i have to *work* to get mine to kick in unless it's a really sharp corner as you described (i'm also gonna give myself a slight pat on the back here for finally getting close to learning how to brake into a corner and very occasionally actually finding the apex, and getting through the corner without too much excitement going on)... i think for "our" group (the one i'm including myself in), it's good that it probably kicks in a little early, because generally speaking, this group has gotten themselves "over the line" by too much exuberance, rather than intentionally trying to throttle steer through the corner (as an example of when it might kick in)...

for those who are more skilled, it's probably conservative, but then again, those who are that skilled rarely will actually drive to those x/10ths on the street, they save it for the track...

-Chris

ps. wanna really have a lot of fun? if you ever get an early snowstorm where you are, go out in a big parking lot and turn the dsc off with your summer tires on...

woo-hoo!

locke2c · July 2002

actually in only moderately aggressive driving on city streets I observed a '01 330 with DSC engaged quite early and quite harshly. it would not allow the car to exit a corner with even a hint of oversteer or wheelspin, clamping down on the fun immediately.

that was just a brief impression though and I didn't have a chance to autocross the car; I'm curious what it would've done there.

-Colin

tcn2k · July 2002

Getting my sun roof visor fixed as we speak. Also told them about the cd player ejecting cd not completely all the way. The service adivisor took a look and said, yup, we will replace the player for you today. Anyone has this problem on there business cd player? The cd ejects but doensn't eject the cd fully?
Now i am hoping they don't make a mess in my cars interior or someone at bmw is going to get the full load of my wrath. There was some grease on the visor because it broke and got dragged on the rail, i have tan interrior and it looks awful! Hope those people clean that up too. Well, that is it of my whinning!

ccotenj · July 2002

i guess yet another reason why the e36 is a better car...

i'm shocked they've taken that much *bite* out of the car... i mean, i'm FAR from the most aggressive driver in the world, but i do make the car work pretty regularly, and i don't hit the "i'm taking control now" zone that often... mine seems to let me venture into the "fun" zone, but seems to know when i need "parental supervision", so to speak...

of course, it's always possible that i'm not trying hard enough... the other thing that is possible is that i've subconsciously learned the limits of how far i can enter into the fun zone before i get my hand slapped...

-Chris

seivwrig · July 2002

Chris:

I can actually light the traction control at least once a day. It is also the same spot that would place my truck in a serious understeer situation(A left hand turn to an on ramp from a standing light. I believe that chemicals are the culprit at this spot).

NycCarGuy:

I don't think BMW would do it. I think it has to with the whole package of buying a Z car or M car. The Z cars and some of the M cars have the LSD and the M3 has the variable differential lock(VDL). Like some have said on this thread, your average yuppie Bimmer driver would not the difference between DSC and LSD/VDL. The M cars are performance cars (Manual tran, high revving tuned engine, better suspension and exhaust.) If a regular 3er driver wants a more sportier car. They can 1)Buy a M car, 2)Get their car tuned through an aftermarket company like Hamann or Alpina or 3)Make it a long term tuner project. I don't think that BMW would compromise their M cars for the sake of adding more performance to their 3er or 5er. I guess one could add up the costs of buying a base model car & modify vs. buying the factory tuned car. You can beat the factory performance car with a tuned car but it may cost you more. If you must have the LSD, there is probably some tuner that can do it.

seivwrig · July 2002

In Houston, for a lack of other words, our roads are crap. I can light the traction control just by driving around Dr Lee Nelson's neighborhood (which currently I do ever night because I am on nights working on an AT&T project. With the current turmoil in telecommunications, Worldcom project could be next).

Water would necessarily light up the controls. Fast jerky movements can. If you want to try this, get a vacant lot. From a standing stop, have the wheels turned, then gun it. If the wheels are sharply turned before you hit the accelerator, you car should go slow until you straighten out the wheels. I learned about this at the ultimate drive experience. Ultimately, I am trying to become a better drive, so I don't want to see the DSC/CBC light up. I have taken 180 degree exit ramps while squealing the tires and not seeing the lights come on. I don't know if I'd try it with the DSC turned off. It is kind of an insurance policy, but then again I have done it with Mustangs and no traction control.

1pierce · July 2002

As a not-too-far-in-the-future owner of one of those much disparaged non-SP, steptronic equipped 325's, maybe my opinion on this topic will be taken less seriously, but...

I agree w/riez. LSD is an important performance enhancement (I wouldn't call it "huge", otherwise we'd be reading about it in C&D all the time, and BMW would include it on the 330i).

That said, TC and SC are far more important in most driving circumstances typically encountered. I read the article on the Acura CL. I'll bet 95% of buyers won't be able to tell the difference. Why? Because you have to drive the a car pretty hard, and have a pretty keen feel and plenty of experience to detect the limitations of a FWD car as good as the CL Type S. That accounts for very few of us in the real world.

It is correct that best performance numbers are always achieved with the DSC and TC turned off. But, again, in the real world, how stupid would you feel if you turned off your DCS to get the MOST out of your car, and then wrapped it around a tree because you don't have the experience or skill to control it at the edge?

IMHO, DCS and TC are not just for wimps, but are for those of us who want to drive our cars hard enough to have fun (which in most cases does not necessitate LSD), with the security of knowing the DCS will step in and rescue us if we get a little too exuberant. It also helps alot in the snow, but that's a whole other debate.

DCS is a feature that I am really glad is standard on the 325i.

kominsky · July 2002

The DSC is definitely too intrusive. There's a small rise in the road about 1/4 mile from my house and when I hit it fast enough for the car to get light (tire's still on the road, though), the idiot light almost always starts flashing. Many of the roads around my place are that Tar and Chip (or whatever it's called) which are not known for their abundance of traction once the 'chip' part starts wearing away. I would say on an average 'play' run, DSC kicks in several times. I've taken the same roads at the same speeds with DSC turned off and have never come any where near getting out of shape.

1pierce · July 2002

My recommendation (for what its worth!):

1. First choice: 330i - Soooo much car. Best engine in a sport sedan in the world (note: the real world, not the M3 world).

2. Second choice: 325i (no X), loaded with every option.

3. Last choice: 325xi

I am not a big fan of the xi. I test drove one because it was the only 325 on the lot one night. I have had Subarus, and I think you can do better in the AWD department than w/BMW. It adds noticeable weight to the car, and makes the car more sluggish at low RMP. That was my impression of the 325xi w/step (I presume the performance penalty is not as great w/manual). I found the 325i w/step to be lively, and the xi to be much less so at low speeds. Its also more in-motion technology to maintain.

You don't need AWD in the rain, and w/allseason or winter tires, you won't need it in a BMW in the snow.

Again, just my opinion. Use the AWD money for things you use every day, like more luxury/convenience features or more HP.

kdshapiro · July 2002

In NJ there is almost no place street legal that you could drive your car to experience the LSD. You could take it to the track, but if you were into track events I'm sure you get an after-market LSD.

The DSC is another safety feature. You may of course disable it, but it's nice knowing it's looking out for me, even when I'm not. The only real practical use for LSD is straight line illegal street racing. In my neck of the woods, I find it hard to get above 30 at times, much less at speeds to feel the thrill of the edge.

locke2c · July 2002

You're mistaken and I can only assume have never seriously driven a car with LSD as a comparison to one with open differentials.

You can experience it rounding your basic 90 degree intersection! In the rain even moreso, but on dry tarmac just the same.

-Colin

jmess · July 2002

I agree, LSD is immediately noticeable the first time you go around a corner and add some throttle.

As Mr. Riez has pointed out, BMW at some point quietly removed the LSD from the option list. I think the sports package option would be a good place for BMW to fix this problem. IMHO you don't have an ultimate driving machine without an LSD. I almost can't believe it isn't standard equipment on the 330CI.

kdshapiro · July 2002

That's the way I wouldn't drive however. That type of driving tends to cause pile-ups. That's why I'm saying, there is no place to almost drive a car to the limits here. If you take to the track, that's another story.

eengstro · July 2002

My $0.02 regarding LSD:

I believe, at least for the early E36, that BMW may have made the LSD available for improved traction in messy weather rather than for any performance benefit. As an example, my 1993 325i is optioned with the LSD, as part of the "inclement weather package" (which also includes heated seats, mirrors, etc.). I don't believe the LSD was offered as a separate option, at least on the sedans.

My car was built before any type of stability/traction control was available. In lieu of traction control (which didn't become available until '97, IIRC), a LSD was a logical choice to help improve traction on ice and snow.

Eric

riez · July 2002

ccotenj... Check out the latest issue of Bimmer magazine, October 2002. Lengthy article on the restoration of two 2002s. Here is what they wrote for the 1973 2002tii: "For starters, the 2002's conventional four-speed transmission was replaced with a more modern overdrive five-speed, a popular gearbox found in the four-cylinder 320i model. To aid acceleration, the stock 3.64:1 differential was also replaced with a 3.90:1 LIMITED SLIP, also common with the E21-chassis 320i." Adding LSD to either a restoration or just to enhance a current car is critical if performance is your goal.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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