BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

nyccarguy · September 2002

Didn't you just get a 540iA?

As kdshapiro mentioned, there are many advantages to leasing. One big advantage is that you are leasing against a set residual value, so if by the end of your lease the body style has changed, consumer reports flips the car end over end while trying to brake for an armadillo, or there are reports that the wheels fall off while driving (this actually happened to early Jaguar S Types) you don't have to worry about the resale value of the car dropping.

You just turn the car in to the dealer and either walk away with another one or go and lease another car.

You don't have to worry about bickering with the dealer that edmunds & kbb say your car is worth $22,000 and he's (or she's) can't offer you any higher than $15K on a trade and has the same exact car selling used on the lot for $26K;)

It is advisable to lease within the warranty period (& free maintenance with BMWs) so you really don't incur any additional costs (besides your lease payment, gas, & insurance) for the period you drive the car.

As kdshapiro also mentioned there are some disadvantages. He pretty much covered them.

There are also many good reasons to finance the car or pay for it outright as well. The best thing to do is maybe talk to your accountant and see what is right for you.

hiddendragon · September 2002

I am going to pick up my 03'325 this weekend. The dealer faxed me a page for Car & Key memory perference sheet to fill out. I noticed there is a choice for Daytime Running Lighs to be actived or not. What's you guys option for that?

Also with 03' premium package, I think it come with the automatic headlight control, not sure that is related to the daytime running lights...

any suggestion are welcome...

Thanks,
Happy Dragon

tenet1 · September 2002

I can definately feel the "notchiness" in my gas pedal. Having it fixed in 3 weeks with my 1st Oil change. I am positive it will be a huge impact.

erickpl · September 2002

Brave,

I had my car looked at for the that problem too. They ordered some parts for a 'module' or something like that. Do you by chance have the part numbers they replaced? Are they the same ones posted a while back (I believe they were for a step tranny)? I suspect they are the same, but wanted to get your input on it as to what exactly they did.

I'm looking forward to getting rid of that notchiness... SO annoying once you notice it, kinda like the squeaky seat belt B-pillar.

-Paul

mschukar · September 2002

I opted to have the DRL's active. The DRL's are the halogens run at partial power. The only other time the halogens are used are to flash brights if you have Xenon's.

The way I see it, if having these lights on help someone see me and help avoid an accident, they are well worth it.

I also sometimes run the lights on the middle setting (parking lights) and turn on the fog lights in semi dark conditions that don't require full headlights.

I've seen 3's with DRL's approach me and they seem fairly benign in that they aren't too bright, but they are noticeable.

-murray

brave1heart · September 2002

Parts # for the sticky gas pedal fix on my service tcket are
1 35-40-6-762-481 (Module),
1 35-40-6-756-720 (Adopter plate)

My car is a 2001 325i manual.

jhox85 · September 2002

How in the heck you guys get rid of those pesky bug splats? I have very little luck using "Tar & Bug" removers that seem to be Kerosene.

Any ideas?

ajvdh · September 2002

The "facelifted" 3 series you saw was a hatchback, right? Even though it's based on the same E46 chassis as the sedan/coupe, they decided to let Bangle make the front end more, uh, distinctive. I think it looks like somebody tried to splice a little Integra DNA in.

After the 318ti experiment of the mid-90s, I don't think we'll see it on this side of the pond.

erickpl · September 2002

Thanks for that information. Mine is a 2002, but I suspect the part setup is the same. I'll verify the numbers you gave me against what they've ordered.

Man, gotta love this Edmunds thing!

-Paul

jpnwdc · September 2002

I am likely buying a 2002 325i tomorrow. I'm debating between buying it or financing through the BMW Owner's Choice program. Does anyone have any experiences or thoughts on the Owner's Choice? It sounds similar to a lease except the car is titled in my name. After 36 months, I can buy it for a set price or BMW buys it back (at a set price).

My thoughts are this. If I lease, I pay a monthly use tax (10%) on the lease payment, but no sales tax upfront (I live in D.C.). If I then choose to buy the car at the end of the lease, I have to pay sales tax, and am thus paying taxes twice.

With the Owner's Choice, I pay sales tax up front, but no monthly use tax. If I decide to buy the car at the end of the 36 months, there is no additional tax.

Comments or suggestions?

denk · September 2002

Does anyone know if there is a manufacture date, after which the new gas pedal module and adapter plate would have been used so you shouldn't have to worry about the sticky gas pedal problem for a car made after that date?

erickpl · September 2002

Mine was built in Jan 2002, and it has the problem.

Thanks for the numbers brave.

I called my dealer and the numbers I have are the same... well almost
For the Module, they have 35-40-6-762-480 (you said 481).

Brave, do you know of a difference between the two? Maybe just model years?

At least my dealer has the parts on the way, so hopefully next week, I can report how much smoother it is, just like brave's.

-Paul

tcn2k · September 2002

part number ending in 480 are for step.
481 is for manual.

erickpl · September 2002

Are you sure on that one? I have the manual as well...

Calling the dealer to be sure again.

-Paul

pat · September 2002

psst... remember the tried and true maxim .... don't feed the trolls. ;->

kominsky · September 2002

... but those little furry critters are just SO cute! LOL!

erickpl · September 2002

Yeah, but they end up like little gremlins... remember what happens if you feed them after midnite.

pat · September 2002

yah, let's move on, okay?

brave1heart · September 2002

The sales tax that you pay at the end of the lease should be assessed on the remaining value of the car, so the tax will be significantly less than the sales tax that you would end up paying upfront under the Owner's Choice program. I am not familiar with Owner's Choice but it sound like a program designed to combat the 10% "use tax" that is assessed on leases in DC. I don't know which one is better for you - you should estimate the total taxes you'll end up paying under both case scenarios and discount them to present value to figure out which one is cheaper. Sales tax paid 3 years down the road is not the same as sales tax paid now. I personally am a firm believer in buying and I think that leasing vs. buying is a lot like renting vs. owning. There are risks associated with owning a home but in the end it usually comes out cheaper than renting/leasing the same asset and it gives you the flexibility to customize your home/car to your own tastes. Leasing a new car for 3-4 years is typically more expensive than owning a car for 5-10 years because the car depreciates significantly faster in the first few years and you just keep rolling one lease into another. If you are planning on keeping the car for only a few years, though, some subsidized leases may come out to be cheaper than buying. If you own a business and you can write off the lease as an expense, leasing would also make a lot of sense. In most other cases, buying would be cheaper. Also, you may not care but I don't believe the leasing company would allow you to take your car to an autocross or a high speed driving school either.

kennyinmd · September 2002

I am new here and am looking into a 2003 325i. I just wanna know if there is much off the MSRP or what most people here are paying. I am looking for it to come with as options...the premium package, auto trans, leather, wood trim, and upgraded stereo (if it sounds worthy for the price). Any comments on the upgrade or base stereo would help. Any names of dealers here in Maryland or DC with good help and assistance.

love2skicar · September 2002

yes, adjvh, the facelifted 3 series i saw in zurich was a neat little 31X hatchback. i liked it a lot. i don't know what a Bangle is though?

yes nyccarguy, you have a great memory. i did just get a 540a, but it is a company car . . .

the rest of the time we drive a 93 corolla and 94 jeep cherokee. since we got the 540, we can't deal with those any more so are selling those 2 cars and getting a 330xi as our personal car.

that's the downside to bmws -- it's hard to drive another car after you drive one.

we tested an X5 yesterday which was very nice but still an Suv. it also was much more difficult to park in our tight boston spot

tonight they let us take a 330xi home and it is really nice

only questions are sport vs. non sport, options and 02 vs. 03, lease buy etc.

i heard the sport on the xi is only cosmetic and tires

i wish i had the sport on my 540. it is very smooth but too floaty at high speed

interesting contrast. just got back from 2 weeks in germany. there are some short sections of the autobahn where i you can drive full speed.

but most of the time there was too much traffic or we were limited to 120KPH

people drive faster on average on my way to work here in mass!

any advice on sport or non sport on an xi would be appreciated. it's much less expensive on the xi than on the 540, but it also must come with less

bmw323is · September 2002

Does anyone have any factual information as to the % of reduction in horsepower that the air conditioning uses when on? On my bimmer, it literally seems to take 20% of the HP. I had an RX-7 once that felt the same way. In my Ford truck, I can't tell the difference with the air on or off. Could it be different by brand of auto?

nyccarguy · September 2002

Don't worry, this is not another "which one of these should I get," but just a comparison of a friend of mine. He has a 2002 A4 3.0Q w/ 6 speed and his sister recently purchased a 2002 BMW 325Ci w/ Steptronic. Both cars are equipped with Sport Packages. He drove his sister's car last night and I just wanted to pass his observations & comparisons on to the board.

He was suprised at how strong the smaller 2.5L I6 (very impressive power) was as compared to the 3.0 V6 in his A4. He said with some miles on it and a stick that it could probably run with his 3.0 with no problem. He said the 330i must be like a road rocket and can't imagine how fast an M3 is:)

He likes the interior of his A4 MUCH better. He said the monotonous orange lightling in the BMW is somewhat distracting and discomforting to the eyes. The A4's interior lighting is spectacular. The BMW is a snug fit for him. Now granted he's 5'7" and weighs somewhere around 240lbs, but he's much more comfortable in the A4.

He said the steering in the BMW was much heavier and more precise than in his Audi. He used the phras laser sharp do describe the steering of the 325i.

As far as ride quality goes, he said his A4 actually rides rougher. That may have something to do with the fact that his tires have 20K on them and the BMWs tires are obviously brand new.

So I asked him the obvious question: If you were shopping today, which car would you pick? Hands down he would take his A4 3.0Q 6 speed. He loves the unique look of his Amulet Red, SP equipped A4 as opposed to the ubiquitious 3 series which are all over the place in Connecticut. He says if he was shopping a 325i vs an A4 1.8T, he might have to reconsider. He said if the 1.8T were available with leather and the wood trimmed interior it would be closer, but as of 2002, he'd take the 325i.

brave1heart · September 2002

The 325 manual will run neck to neck with the A4 3.0Q manual. It will also *feel* faster because of the engine growl. As far as the interior, the A4's may be prettier but the 3-series' is a lot more ergonomic. The biggest difference is in the controls, which are perfectly weighted in the 3-series and placed just right. The gas and brake pedals are so far in our A4 that I would not even attempt a heel-and-toe with it. As far as the A4's rougher ride, it is likely that your friend has the sport packager in his 6-spd A4 but your friend with the slushie 325 does not. Even compared with or without, I would not be surprised to find out that the A4 rides rougher because it is much heavier and there is so much more mass to keep in check.

nyccarguy · September 2002

Actually, both cars are equipped with the Sport Package.

I've driven his A4 myself and it is definitely a great car, I'd take a 3 series myself. You are right about the engine growl of the 3 series. His A4 is fast, but it is a smooth fast. He said the 325 feels quicker.

Am I making sense?

brave1heart · September 2002

I think we are saying the same thing.

nyccarguy · September 2002

LOL!

ddblue · September 2002

It's been a while since I posted here. I just wanted to get some general feedback from everyone on my situation.

Recent layoffs at my company and just a bad atmosphere overall in the telecom industry have caused me to rethink ownership of my 2001 325Ci, which I purchased new. I still have my job, but I'm concerned (for good reason) that more of us will get the axe here at my company soon. So...I now have about $26,500 left to pay on my car w/ $640/mo payments (ouch) for the next 3.5 years. I was thinking about selling my 2001 325Ci for about $28/29K and paying off the loan---then finding a 1997 540i Sport (w/ 60K+ miles) for about $21-22K. So, that would leave me with about an $18K loan. Not bad. It brings my car payments down about $200. Even if I get laid off $400/mo is affordable.

BUT...I am love the E46 coupe design, and with the recent designs by "Bungle and Hoodwink", I fear that the next generation 3 may look like the 7 left in the dryer too long. Not good. The sexy lines of the 3 will fade into history (I'm hard pressed to find an automobile that is as svelt/sexy/powerful as the E46 coupe). Also, once my existing loan is paid off, I'll have the car for another five years, whereas if I buy a 1997 540i, by the time that loan's paid off the car will be on its last legs.

I did apply to refinance my existing loan for a lower rate, but any feedback here would be helpful.

nyccarguy · September 2002

I'd say stick it out with the 3er. Haven't heard too many good things about the 5 series in gereral that were 1997 MY cars. You might have a cheaper payment for a few months, but once something goes wrong with the '97 5er (I don't think '97 is eligible for CPO?), it will significantly swell that month's expenses. Remember, your 3er still includes free maintenance and a full warranty until 4 years 50K miles. The 540i Sport will no doubt suck down more gas than your 3er. Definitely stay with the higher payments of the 3. When you find a new job, you'll be glad you did.

kominsky · September 2002

I'd tend to agree with nyccarguy. I'm also in the telecom field so I know how you feel, but I keep thinking (hoping?) that we are at or near the bottom of the slide. I BELIEVE things will begin to pick up again in 2003 so as long as I/we can ride it out, it'll be okay. If I'm wrong, I'll have the nicest car at the welfare office. ;-)

ddblue · September 2002

Thanks for the input. I was leaning towards that, but you know how money/job crises can make your sphincter clench up.

nyccarguy · September 2002

If you do lose your job, don't let the characters on the G35 vs. 330i board know. You'll be sure to see some dumb comments like...

"Yeah he's the typical Bimmer owner who just buys the car for the flash and to keep up with the joneses, but he can't even afford it now that he lost his job."

You've been putting up a pretty good fight over there on that dead horse beating thread!

brave1heart · September 2002

Sorry to hear about your situation. Keep in mind that since you currently have warranty on the car for another 2-3 years, your monthly payments are predictable. If you buy a used car, you may end up incurring costly repairs for which you may not be prepared. In addition, every transaction costs too much money - you have to pay sales tax (5% here in MA), registration, etc. Finance rates on used cars tend to be higher than rates for new cars. Plus, the 540 may be quite expensive to maintain. All I can say is hang in there till better times.

And BTW, I could care less what any board thinks in this situation. You gotta do what's right for you.

vkwheels · September 2002

I know it can be tough. It might not happen. I'm on board with the feedback given so far. I'd try to hang in there with both the car & the mental outlook. Nice seeing your logon, by the way, you haven't been 'round for a while.

markjenn · September 2002

I'm on board with everyone else, but for a different reason. Any time you flip cars you incur a lot of overhead - taxes, registration, salespeople, dealers, etc. That's the last thing you need now. And if you do lose your job you may want the flexibility to sell down to a Nissan Sentra, not have to sell the used car you just bought and incur yet more overhead.

Ride it out.

- Mark

azjpeg · September 2002

hey all. my first post. glad to have found this forum - edmunds is a great resource.

ordered an '03 325i last week and hope to have it before december... sold my '97 z3 about a month ago and miss driving a bmw.

just wanted to chime in. will surely have questions and/or comments in the future.

nyccarguy · September 2002

What are you driving in the mean time? What color & options did you order? Which Z3 did you have?

ballbag23 · September 2002

I'm also in the telecom industry and just got the call that my 2003 325XI will be ready for pick up on Monday. Who cares about the job...if you get laid off, you can spend the next two months ripping around in your bimmer from job interview to job interview while you're collecting severance. If you're good, you'll find a job that will cover your monthly car payment. Well, that's my plan anyway.

Not to compare, but...I also checked out the G35, since I'm a tightwad and always out for more bang for my buck. While the G35 will certainly dust the 325 off the line, I found the overall drive, comfort and look (especially the interior) of the 325 worth the extra $$. Add in the fact that the G35 doesn't come in AWD, and I chose the BMW. When a G35 blows me off the line, I'll soon pass it a mile or so ahead while its pulled over by a cop.

Anyway, to each his own. You can't go wrong with either car. Is it Monday yet? I never thought I'd look forward to another Monday.

andrew001 · September 2002

I also ordered a 325XI 3 weeks ago and currently my status is produced but not shipped. how long it takes from my current status to be delivered to my dealer?

Thanxs

dolivette · September 2002

Hi all-
Does anyone have experience driving the 325xi with an auto trans? Is it really sluggish like some people say? I live in NY and dread having to drive a stick in traffic! Also, does the sport package slow the car down (extra weight)?

tchoo · September 2002

I thought you worked for the govt? How's Lena? If I remember correctly I bought my 325Ci right about the same time you did. My opinion? Keep her. Its gonna give you a lot less trouble than a 97 5-series. 97 was the first year for E39's and I hear there were some teething problems.

locke2c · September 2002

I agree with Mark by default.

I wouldn't do what you propose because a large part of your "savings" is stretching the loan out from your current 3.5 years remaining to what... 5-6 years?

If you're going to make a big change for a budget reason, make a BIG one and ditch the 3er in favor of truly cheap transportation. Swallow your pride. Then when things straighten out, get another nice car.

For the time being though, I'd stay pat unless that $640 car payment is burdensome even with your current job.

-Colin

mschukar · September 2002

Personally, I wouldn't have a $26k loan on a car, but to each his own. I saved my pennies for over two years without a car payment, sold two cars, then paid cash for my 325i.

I think you would be fortunate to get $28k for your 2 year old 325. If you do sell your Bimmer, I wouldn't be buying a used car for $21k, I would get something under $10k, save your cash for a couple years and get a much lower loan when you can afford it. A little something called living below your means.

Do you own a house? I refinanced my house last month at 5.75% for 15 years and locked in for a second refinance at 5.25% without making a payment! The interest I pay will drop by more than $3k the first year. 30 year loans can be had for under 6%.

You might be able to refinance your house, roll in the balance on your car and have lower payments than your house + car payments. This would be a great option IMHO.

-murray

azjpeg · September 2002

nyccarguy-

'97 z3 was my first bmw. just the 4-cyl, silver/black w/ chrome pkg. really was a great car. would have loved the 6, but couldn't afford it at the time.

interim car is an '88 acura legend v6 w/ 50,000 miles - was literally a grandma's car, willed to us this year. reliable (and boring) just like a honda....

'03 325i will be 5-spd, steel grey/blk leatherette, titanium trim, moonroof, on-board comp, hk and zenons. just what i wanted, really. will have a bmw friend install a 6-disc and maybe new wheels down the road.

brave1heart · September 2002

Your advice is very sound except that I don't see the appeal of paying cash for your car/house or whatever. The money you used to pay for the car has opportunity cost which has to be factored in. The 32-33K that you tied up in the car could be working for you instead - the 30-year T-bill is still at 5-6% and you could have financed the car with a 3-4% tax-deductible loan. You are using an expensive asset regardless of whether you finance it by using someone else's money or your own. What's more important is optimizing your rates of return - that is, getting loans at the lowest possible rate and investing your money at the highest possible rate (same risk assumed). It's good to have some leverage (cash in this case) esp. if you have some money set aside for a rainy day and/or you have a steady and highly predictable income stream. All IMO, of course, and coming form a guy who bought his 325 with no money down and no regrets.

mschukar · September 2002

you could have financed the car with a 3-4% tax-deductible loan

Is that 3-4% before or after the tax deduction? If you know of a 3% before tax loan, please share.

In general, I don't disagree, but as stated in the start of this thread, these are uncertain times in terms of job security and investment returns. If Ddblue or anyone here loses their income, the last thing they would want is a $20k loan regardless of what they could "earn" in a risky market. At best, we may have gained 1 or 2% annual return in the 6 months since I bought the car, but could have lost 29% on the S&P. Not much opportunity there!

Paying off a loan or avoiding a loan completely may not always be the "best" investment, but it is probably the safest.

FWIW, my wife and I have been paying the maximum 401k percentage for over a decade in addition to buying my company stock at a discount and putting aside money each month for our child's education. I don't feel that I need to take the risk of "borrowing" money to invest, as you suggest, to have a secure future. Ddblues job insecurity indicates he is in a worse situation to take on investment risk than I am.

-murray

pkbimmer · September 2002

Hi folks: I am desperately seeking infomration on the following:

BMW 325i
Automatic Transmission + leather + premium package + sports package + xenon lights

15,000 miles per year, 3 year lease

I am in Fremont, CA (Bay area). One dealer said that the residual value is 59% and the money factor is 2.65, the other dealer said that the residual is 58% and money factor can be as low as 2.25%. I really need your help in figuring out what the right residual value and money factor should be. Thanks in advance for all your help.

brave1heart · September 2002

Except for maybe the ultra rich, we all borrow money to invest, including you. Unless your house is paid off, I don't know... In my situation, we would not have been able to put a down payment on our house if I had paid cash for my 325 and the A4. By using leverage, we can afford the lifestyle that we like now when we are in low 30's. As I mentioned before, I would only recommend that only if you have "some money set aside for a rainy day and/or you have a steady and highly predictable income stream". It just goes to show that it's hard to advice anyone on their investment choices without a good understanding of their financial situation.

Try this link - 4.5% before tax, which would equate to 3-4% after you write off the tax expense.

http://www.deepgreenbank.com/info/index/

denk · September 2002

I have a 2002 325xi with automatic and I have never felt that that the car was sluggish either in local traffic or on the highway. In fact, at times the car seems so fast and resonsive it is scary. And, you have the sport mode if you want to extend the shift points. I don't have the sport package, so can't speak to that question. Unless you do a lot of track driving like Braveheart and some others, I doubt you will ever feel that the car is sluggish.

ballbag23 · September 2002

Well, my car is already at the dealer, and the BMW Owners Circle website says its 'En Route' to the US!! I was told it would take about 6 weeks from the time I ordered the car until I could pick it up (however, i believe it depends on the time your particular VIN was scheduled for production). My car came in over 2 weeks early. Anyway, as soon as you see your car as 'En Route' to the US, you can expect a call from your dealer within a week. You should also notice an 'Estimated Delivery Date' under 'Review Order Detail.' Although its a bit vague of what delivery they're referring to (prep center or dealer), this ended up being the date that my dealer had it in his hands. If you're planning on selling a car on the street to use as a down payment, I suggest you don't rely on the website data and wait until the last minute. The unexpected early arrival of my BMW left me with 2 days to try and sell my car on the street, so now I'm stuck with trading it in.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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