BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

seivwrig · December 2002

Lamborghini has already created a jeep like vehicle. People tend to forget that Lambo creates tractors and farm equipment. Ferrari on the other hand is a race outfit first, a producer of cars second. They use the cars and gear to help fund the race outfit.

brave1heart · December 2002

"10 years ago, a 7 sec 0-60 was exotic car territory, nowadays, the econoboxes easily match this, so the monster trucks."

I can't think of any econoboxes or monster trucks that do 0-60 in 7 sec flat. Any examples? I still think that 7 sec flat is very respectable and faster than a good 95-98% of the cars out there in the real world (by the number of cars, not number of models that can do it).

brave1heart · December 2002

The McLaren F1 gains 10 mph EVERY SECOND - can you imagine that? 100-150 mph in ~ 5 sec. Still not as good as good rollercoaster as far as excitement, though ;o)

climatecontrol · December 2002

I just wanted to add that the hp war is entertaining considering the huge increases in power vs price i.e...220-255hp in mainstream cars under $30K, but what is scary to me, cars are faster today, but most drivers are not getting smarter. It scares me each morning and afternoon on the freeway to see so many SUV's swerving in and out of traffic traveling between 70-80 plus miles per hour.
I've noticed that most drivers that own decent to real nice cars (BMW's,Infiniti,Vette,Benz,Lexus..etc) tend to drive closer to the speed limit, more cautious, and rarely seen as major victims in car ascendents. Most of the cars that drive recklessly on the freeway or at excessive speeds tend to be the SUV drivers,trucks,beat up old cars, and econoboxes. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my observation.

This week I had to drop off my M3 for service. As I walked in, I noticed a wreaker backing up into the service area with a new 7 series on the back. The front end was completly smashed. I asked my little buddy in the service dept what happend to the new 7. He told me that the driver ran off the road trying to make a simple adjustment using the I-drive system. Next thing he knew, he ran off the road not paying attention. The owner only had 3,000 miles on it. We both agreed that we hope BMW does not try to implement the I-drive system on other BMW's in the future.

climatecontrol · December 2002

P.S.
Wanted to update the room that my sister and I will travel to Germany in Jan to pick up her 540i sport. We're looking forward to it. I've heard the weather in Germany has been above avg in temp this fall/winter. Anyone have any tips, ideas concering the trip there? Would love to hear.

div2 · December 2002

"I can't think of any econoboxes or monster trucks that do 0-60 in 7 sec flat. Any examples?"

Well, the V6 Altima is a bordeline econobox. The SVT Focus and the upcoming Neon SRT are 7 sec and under cars. As for trucks, the SVT Lightning and soon to come Ram SRT are under 7 sec trucks. Heck, I went to college in the mid-late seventies and the fastest domestic cars were the Corvette and Trans AM-and you had to really flog them to get them into the sixes. The holy grail of acceleration was the Turbo Carrera, which did 0-60 in the fives. And the fastest US spec BMW? The E12 530i- which did it in the low eights...

stretchsje · December 2002

but what is scary to me, cars are faster today, but most drivers are not getting smarter.

Too true. Some people on the Mazda6 thread are calling 220hp too little, citing more power as a safety feature when merging. Rediculous. It's only there for thrills or weaving like an jerk.

seivwrig · December 2002

I guess we should be glad that the Focus RS or Nissan Skyline is not sold in the U.S. As well as the slew of British track cars like the Ariel Atom, Caterham 7, Westfield Megabusa and Lotus Elise Exige. What the track cars lack in HP, is made up in exceleration and handling. Europe has a love affair with the speedy, 4 banger econoboxes. Life is definitely going to be different once the Suburu Impreza WRX STi and Mitsubshi Lancer Evo VII shows up on our shores. People say they will not pay $30 for a compact size BMW, but at least it has refinement. More than I can say for the new Mitsu and WRX. I cannot see paying $30K for a street ready rally car.

getz2 · December 2002

I'm ecstatic about the boost in horsepower, and hopefully bmw will up the ante in the next iteration of the 3-series. Yeah, refinement is great, but getting blown away in the straights by an altima is not a reassuring feeling, especially when you forked out considerably more cash for the 2.5l pushing around the 323/325i. I traded in my 323i for a new maxima with the 6-speed, and that thing flys in a straight line (hits 60 in six seconds flat, 1/4 mile in 14.6 per C&D).

I am very excited for the next run of the 3er, and have no doubts that BMW will more than outmatch the straight line hustle that the japanese manufacturers are providing. A turbo inline six would be pretty sweet.

-Getz

kdshapiro · December 2002

How is the handling of tne Maxima compared to the 3 series. It's not even in the same league. Straightline acceleration is one thing, but it is not a precise driving instrument. (At least that was my impression when I test drove it, the Maxima that is). Which car can you have more fun with? Tossing the Maxima around the road at 60 is going to be a bit different than tossing the 325 around the road at 60. Two completely different cars.

I say bring on the Lancer EVO, according to the review, if you want to blow everything away, but dont care about accutrements that's the car for you. It's not the car for me however. BMWs mission is to produce an all-around top notch drivers car. The mission of the Lancer is a top-notch handler without the sophistication of the BMW. Add that sophistication in and you now have a car that will sell for much more.

The boost in HP and the trend toward bigger engines is disturbing overall. We need to come go grips with pollution and oil as an energy source.

brave1heart · December 2002

Although none of these cars will be sold en masse, that's still a convincing list.

Hey, I was thinking that your son will end up getting the ti after all. You are not going to sell it if you get the 330i Club Sport, right?

tenet1 · December 2002

Drink lots of Beer when in Germany.

I have made many day trips to parts of Germany when flying through Europe just to spend a day drinking some good Pilsner or Kolsch.

Just dont drink and drive.

newtoboston · December 2002

Here's two comments to lower my popularity on this board:

What we really need are higher fuel taxes. This would discourage the use of any vehicle which gets low gas mileage, whether it's a high HP sedan or a gas guzzling SUV. This is one of the reasons other countries don't drive as many massive vehicles as we do, when gas is $4/gallon you tend to care a little more about fuel economy. And that's what I'd actually like to see, gas at over $3/gallon.

What would be even nicer but not probable, if the government were to use the gas tax to actually clean up the environment.

And if I can just rant for 2 seconds on parents who give their kids SUVs to drive around. Gee, because my kid is more clueless/reckless when it comes to driving let me give them a vehicle that will save them but kill everyone else on the road. That's exactly what this is, my kids life is more important than anyone else's life because SUV's are only safer when involved with crashes with smaller vehicles.

How about instead of huge SUVs you give your kids better training behind the wheel and a smaller car with every safety option available. And maybe if they had a smaller vehicle they wouldn't feel as invincible. Of course I have no right to speak on this as I have no kids and don't know what it's like to be a parent.

getz2 · December 2002

The 3-series would run rings around the maxima in any road course. My 323i was sport package equipped, plus I bought aftermarket yokohama 225s, which held the road insanely well. I have a favorite off-ramp which banks sharpely and is almost a perfect half circle, and in the bmw I could take that corner at about 60 mph with some 4 wheel drift, in the maxima 50 mph is about all I have been able to muster. However, where I notice a huge difference is on the highway when going to pass. At 65 mph, a quick downshift into third and the maxima is right in the sweet-spot, and it really moves to about 85 mph, before necessitating the shift to fourth. The 323i never felt like it was lackinig in the top-end, but the maxima has the advantage of an extra liter of displacement, and it is very apparent at highway speeds, at which I spend the vast majority of my commute. There are a lot of things that I miss about the 3-series, but I drive a ton of miles and the at 75,000 mile mark the bmw started to nickle and dime me to death, so I switched to something cheaper to maintain. The 3-series is a better car, but it comes at a price. I still have fun in the nissan, and since my previous 3-er was a four door and the max is a four door, I don't see them as being completely different, just a different emphasis on driving characteristics. I'll be back to BMW, but I just needed a break.

As far as the power increases, it seems that most of these vehicles have gas mileage that is right in tow with what weve seen from less powerful engines in the past. I believe the new accord v6 is still an ultra low emissions vehicle? It seems engines are getting much more efficient, and I doubt we will see any adverse effects in our environment by gaining a few extra ponies. The only solution is finding a source other than fossil-fuel, but not many folks will want to give up the performance of a gasoline engine. Hybrids are nice immediate patch-work solution, but again you lose the oomph. I think a major area that needs to be addressed is getting the millions of beaters which account for vastly more emissions than a modern vehicle off the road, or up to speed. Also the millions of gallons of diesel that get burned on a daily basis do a whole lot of harm as well, but nop one seems to ever glance in that direction either.

-Getz

seivwrig · December 2002

Horsepower is not really all that. Like I previously listed. There are a bunch of four bangers that will beat my 325i on straights with comparable handling but no refinement. If straight line acceleration is what one wants, buy a Mustang GT and save the change. Turbo and inline-6 don't go together. BMW prefers naturally aspired engines. Porsche does turbo, Audi does Quattro, M-B does slushboxes and BMW does naturally aspired engines.

I'm not speed racer and I did not buy a BMW to drag against Camaros. But if a Camaro want to tail me on a mountain road, good luck. The bottom line to a BMW is REFINEMENT and HANDLING, hence the Ultimate Driving Machine .

brave1heart · December 2002

I think there is fossil fuel for decades on out there - it's just that it will get more expensive to extract it in a couple of decades. If gas were $3 and over, everything you buy would be more expensive - not just the gas you put in your car.

mschukar · December 2002

newtoboston

I happen to agree with you on gas taxes. Higher taxes would encourage investment in new and existing technologies that will have long term benefits for everyone. Raise the cost of driving and let the consumer decide what is best for them. Better mass transit and high speed rail would benefit our society as well.

There is an article in a recent Consumer Reports on the trend towards higher mileage, larger vehicles and lower emissions to the detriment of mpg.

getz2

Also the millions of gallons of diesel that get burned on a daily basis do a whole lot of harm as well, but no one seems to ever glance in that direction either.

I disagree. The EPA has regularly lowered emission regulations of diesel engines, the latest new regulation going into effect last October. I am working on exhaust filters for diesel engines that remove 90%+ of the particulate (black smoke) associated with diesel engines. These filters will be required on diesel engines in 2007.

VW's diesel cars achieve high mileage without the hocus pocus and complexity of hybrid engines. I drove a Jetta in the early 80's that got 50 mpg. Obviously, the consumer hasn't demanded high mileage.

-murray

newtoboston · December 2002

I realize $3/gallon means everything would be more expensive. That would mean Americans would have to struggle with just 3 TVs in their house instead of 4. Maybe the family I know with 4 cars between 2 people would have to cut back as well.

Anyway I'm way off topic so I'll shut up.

mschukar · December 2002

I don't think everything needs to be more expensive, but the cost of transporting items with gas engines would be more expensive. This would encourage alternatives and a reevaluation of how companies distribute things. Of course, tax breaks could be given to transporters of goods.

It's not a matter of if the cost of fuel will go up, but when and how we will adapt.

-murray

getz2 · December 2002

I don't understand why everybody pulls the "go buy a mustang" card when someone mentions they would like a more powerful engine. I guess I could go buy an M3 instead. As far as inline six and turbo not going together, they went pretty well in the skyline and supra. Granted, the bmw inline revs as freely as anything out there and spools nicely to redline with good torque which is readily available, but I wouldn't mind seeing a forced induction variant to save the added weight caused by increasing displacement. I don't see why you would need to seperate REFINEMENT and HANDLING from brisk acceleration, as there is a market for it; evidenced by the M cars, AMG, etc. As far as the ultimate driving machine, yeah BMW builds some cars that could fit that bill, but I don't know if the 3-series is the pinnacle of all driving. Perhaps at its current price range the 3-series is the best driving sedan you could buy, but given the choice I would take a 911 turbo as providing slightly more excitement if you throw everything into the mix. BMW, like any other company is about building a product that sells, which it has been very succesful at, and they will continue to evolve their product as time progresses. I don't know if you can lock a company into being about "slush-boxes" or "turbos", as they build products which have neither. With BMW and turbos, isn't the next five series rumored to be offering a twin-turbo inline six?

mschukar,

thanks for the diesel update, good to hear. However, the best diesel engines never make it from europe to our shores becasue they are ham-strung by emissions regulations (ie BMW has a pretty sweet disel 3-series), when I mentioned regulating diesel I meant on a global scale. Diesel, sans your filter (I'm assuming), is still more polluting than gasoline.

-Getz

getz2 · December 2002

I don't understand why everybody pulls the "go buy a mustang" card when someone mentions they would like a more powerful engine. I guess I could go buy an M3 instead. As far as inline six and turbo not going together, they went pretty well in the skyline and supra. Granted, the bmw inline revs as freely as anything out there and spools nicely to redline with good torque which is readily available, but I wouldn't mind seeing a forced induction variant to save the added weight caused by increasing displacement. I don't see why you would need to seperate REFINEMENT and HANDLING from brisk acceleration, as there is a market for it; evidenced by the M cars, AMG, etc. As far as the ultimate driving machine, yeah BMW builds some cars that could fit that bill, but I don't know if the 3-series is the pinnacle of all driving. Perhaps at its current price range the 3-series is the best driving sedan you could buy, but given the choice I would take a 911 turbo as providing slightly more excitement if you throw everything into the mix. BMW, like any other company is about building a product that sells, which it has been very succesful at, and they will continue to evolve their product as time progresses. I don't know if you can lock a company into being about "slush-boxes" or "turbos", as they build products which have neither. With BMW and turbos, isn't the next five series rumored to be offering a twin-turbo inline six?

mschukar,

thanks for the diesel update, good to hear. However, the best diesel engines never make it from europe to our shores becasue they are ham-strung by emissions regulations (ie BMW has a pretty sweet disel 3-series), when I mentioned regulating diesel I meant on a global scale. Diesel, sans your filter (I'm assuming), is still more polluting than gasoline.

-Getz

mschukar · December 2002

when I mentioned regulating diesel I meant on a global scale

Actually, tough regulations on diesel particulate go into effect in Europe before the US.

I also think diesel engines have low demand in the US (for whatever reason) which prevents BMW and others to even try to sell them here.

-murray

div2 · December 2002

Nah, I don't think I could bring myself to sell the ti; it's way too much fun for nearly zero upkeep costs... And yes, No.1 son still wants it. He's always saying "Let's take the ti.", though he also likes the Wrangler pretty well-he's fascinated by the window cranks-up to then he only knew about power windows. Boy do I feel old...

div2 · December 2002

I was at the Gateway Tech introduction of the US 524td back in the mid eighties. The BMW spokesman started the presentation by thanking General Motors for "single-handedly destroying the market for diesel passenger cars in North America." I can't help but think that the horrible GM diesels continue to cast a pall over any manufacturer that wants to put oil burners into their product mix. Me, I'd LOVE a 330d.

brave1heart · December 2002

"Better mass transit and high speed rail would benefit our society as well." - Guys, mass transit does not work in this country. People (including me) love the privacy and peace of commuting by themselves. Raising the prices of gasoline will not change people's negative attitudes toward public transportation.

3 or 4 TVs in a house? Well, let people spend their money the way they want to. We only have one TV in our house but so what - we don't need more than that. If someone wants 4 TVs and are willing to pay for them, sure, why not? Why would they have to give up some of their disposable income to subsidize programs that are likely to fail, such as those aimed at improving public transportation?!?

As far as the ultimate driving machine - well, it is just a very successful tagline, that's all. Ironically, there's nothing ultimate about BMWs - for every aspect of driving, there are other cars that beat BMW at it. BMWs do everything very well - that's why I love them but that doesn't make them ultimate driving machines...

riez · December 2002

brave1heart... Please keep preachin' the gospel. I couldn't agree more. Count me out when it comes to Euro-socialism or eco-communism! Gasoline is hideously expensive in England. Do they have low road conjestion? Pristine city air? Solved their mass transit issues? No. So much of that tax revenue just goes into the general fund for national health service, transfer payments, ag subsidies, etc.

Why are so many willing to give so much of other people's money--which is a function of their time and talent--and so much power to centralized government? Esp. when so much that government has tried to do in this area has been counterproductive. Just look at how much our government has spent on alternative fuel and electric vehicles. How many have been sold by GM, Ford, Chrysler? Then look what Toyota and Honda have done essentially on their own.

And you'll oh so love government-run mass transit when unionized government workers go out on strike to blackmail for higher wages! Just ask New Yorkers how they love it when the bus drivers et al strike.

kominsky · December 2002

This is probably not the place for this topic, but if either of you were running for office, you'd get my vote. ;-)

pat · December 2002

Ahem ... a political forum, we are not.

brave1heart · December 2002

We got a little carried away. It all started with HP wars, fuel consumption, what's right and wrong, etc.

kominsky · December 2002

To mark the approaching holiday season and to get back on topic, here's a hypothetical question for you...

Your wife (husband, girlfriend, neighbor, friend's dog... whoever) gives you $1000 for Christmas to spend on your car. The stipulations are that you must buy an item(s) for the car (no driving schools, etc) and it is a finite amount (ie, you can't put it towards something like Bilstein coilovers and make up the difference out of your own pocket). What would you get?

I'll go first (prices are approximations);

UUC Short Shift kit - $350
UUC Sway Bars - $350
UUC Strut Brace - $250
Real expensive fuzzy dice - $50

FWIW, I have no affiliation with UUC or fuzzy dice manufacturers

brave1heart · December 2002

Real expensive fuzzy dice - $50 - I'd get 20 of these

)

OK, really -
ECIS CAI - $350
RD front strut brace - $250
M3 steering wheel - $350
and have enough money left for a real expensive fuzzy dice ($50)

)

I would not want to fudge TOO MUCH with the rolling resistance of the car, so coilovers are a big no for me. The UUC sway bars are a great choice. I decided against them for now because the install takes 3-4 hours with a friend and I am pretty sure it will be a little over my head and esp. because you need to grease them at least once a year. Also, they may develop clunking noises if they are not properly installed.

potenzaus · December 2002

Hi,

Does BMW offer free scheduled maintenance like Audi does? For how long and how many miles? Thanks.

dave330i · December 2002

Are the swaybar front, rear, or both? I'd replace the strut brace with front camber plates.

What color fuzzy dice?

brave1heart · December 2002

BMW offers true scheduled maintenance. Audi does not. Not on the '01 A4 that we bought at least. They cover oil changes every 10K miles, which is not nearly sufficient for cars with regular oil, IMO. So every 5K miles, we shell out ~$60 for the oil change. I've thought about converting to synthetic but frankly, I think once the 4/50 warranty expires, we'd be selling it.

seivwrig · December 2002

Sorry about the Mustang line, but HP is not always equal to 0-60 times. Take for instance a comparo that was done in R&T or C&D that involved a Lotus Elise. This is a car that max at about 125 mph but it will beat my car in the 0-60. It probably has less HP than my 325i. BMW has done turbos but it is the exception versus the rule. I guess one could buy a Downing/Atlanta supercharger. I guess my problem is that I am a car fan (not an enthusiast), and have come to expect certain things from certain manufactures. Just like my M-B slushbox comment. Why do AMGs come with the slushbox. By some peoples definition (no mine), the AMG SL55 is not a sports car because of the slush box. The M-badge is another example of knowing what you get up from. An M-badge car does not come with an automatic tranny. Lada will always look like they come from Russia. Trabant will look like they were built backwards. And a 914 is not a Porsche (just kidding, my wife used to drive one. This the running joke in my household).

I cannot fault anyone from feeling somewhat cheated if they get beat in their BMW by any midsize or near luxury japanese cars. As individuals,we should drive what we want and can afford. I enjoy my BMW and probably would consider driving an Audi, an Infiniti or Volvo(not for it styling). Can you get refinement and handling, yes. I thing the G35 is coming close. But by and large to get what you want tends to come at a price. I would love an Aston Martin but i am not holding my breathe.

ryoken · December 2002

You might want to consider tossing the fuzzy dice to pay the sales tax on the rest of the lot, since you're not allowed to make up the difference out-of-pocket.

I'd try one of the X-Pel clear bra kits. (About $350, I believe.) For the balance, maybe I'll get a bunch of $9.95 fuzzy dice and sell them to ya'll for $50 each.

leenelsonmd · December 2002

GETZ2: Why turbo charge the I6 when the 3.246liter I6 makes 333hp? Give the current M3 engine to the next 332 and give the current M3GTR engine (V8) to the next generation M3. Leave the turbos out.
Maxima is not a bad family car for the money. It is pretty quick in a straight line and does most things pretty well. I wouldn't compare it to a 3 series because it is so much larger. The 5 series is a better comparison.

Newtoboston: I agree about gas prices. Increase them and encourage fuel conservation. I probably would not have 4000 miles on my 6.5 week old car if gas was $3 a gallon. Spend the money on the roads and research for ways to move people more efficiently--of course I distrust the gov as much as anyone and to echo riez, most of the additional money would probably get wasted anyway.

Kominsky: you tell me. What would you get on an M3. I can see getting a CAI, the Short Shift kit and the fuzzy dice. Any other suggestions - Do I need to beef up the suspension?

Kirstie_H · December 2002

A journalist with a major daily newspaper is looking to talk with people who bought entry-luxury cars having owned more-expensive luxury cars (e.g. traded 5-series for 3-series).
If you have a story to share, please send your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Friday, December 20, 2002. Please be sure to include the vehicle model names and model years. Thanks for your consideration!

mschukar · December 2002

Guys, mass transit does not work in this country

You might be right, but the government can subsidize the airlines and the auto industry through new roads, yet when someone mentions mass transit or high speed rail, people cry socialism.

We pay to build new roads to solve congestion, yet 10 years later, the traffic jams are back and we call that progress?!? If you like the privacy and peace of sitting in your BMW in a traffic jam, that's great, but I would rather see my tax money spent on a long term solution rather than new roads that will be packed in 10 years.

-murray

brave1heart · December 2002

Boston did think of a new solution - it's called the Big Dig

) $16 billion (yes, that's billion) and 10 years later, no one knows if and when the project will be completed. In the meantime, the T is just as slow as it was when it was built, traffic jams are getting worse, and people are buying more BMW's so they'd weather the mess in peace and comfort

) I'd rather keep my tax dollars and spend it on the BMW than give it away to the corrupt politicians and union construction guys who are still run by Tony Soprano ;o)

p.s. If I recall correctly, Amtrak opened a high-speed line from Boston to New York some time in the past year. Last thing I remember hearing about it is that it wasn't close to breaking even and that it had serious technical difficulties. Do you really think that increasing the taxes on gas would change any of that?

mg330ci · December 2002

Like they do with electrics!

The government can give incentives to the buyer for purchasing a sensible high MPG vehicle (instead of the monster ut) People might reason that they don't need the monster after all and the rest of us will be able to actually see what's ahead on the road when driving :-)

riez · December 2002

Be thankful that the BMW 3 Series offers outstanding fuel economy. We are NOT part of the problem. 3 Series doesn't weigh a ton. Doesn't pollute much (relatively speaking). Doesn't take up a lot of space (overall height, length or width). And it is fun to drive! A truly great combination. No wonder it sells so well and holds its resale value so well.

kominsky · December 2002

dave - the swaybar price is for front AND rear. I'm not overly familiar with camber plates, but thought they were usually used when altering the ride height of a car. maybe I'm way off. what is the advantage on a stock suspended car? I'm thinking chartreuse(sp?) dice so they're highly visible and everyone will know when it's me cruising on by.

brave - sounds to me like your pocketing a good chunk of that money! i gotta check with the rule book, but i'm pretty sure that's cheating. Don't you already have the CAI and the strutbrace? I forgot about the M3 wheel... I may have to revise my list.

leenelsonmd - if i had an M3, I'd already have everything I ever wanted and would give the money to some goofy Ukranian who would like to add the M3 steering wheel and ECIS CAI to his list. :-)

ryoken - capitalism at it's finest. hahaha

dave330i · December 2002

Camber plates change the toe-in & out of your tires. It helps adjust understeer/oversteer of your car.

locke2c · December 2002

camberplates chiefly change static camber. static camber is adjusted to ensure the tire is in full contact with the road during cornering. more static camber = worse braking and acceleration in a straight line.

camberplates should not be installed on any car with stock suspension. the suspension should be upgraded first, even if it's relatively stiff like an M3 or Sport package would come standard with.

-Colin

getz2 · December 2002

leenelsonmd: Regarding turbocharging, I think it would be an interesting set-up, ala the twin turbo config used in the S4. You could have tons of torque at around 1800 rpms with considerably less engineering than went into the current M3 motor. A single turbo seems like it would be a fairly cheap solution to add considerably more power to the current 2.5L motor, and without going crazy on the amount of boost, should prove to be almost as reliable. The amount of turbo lag would be negligible as the 2.5L makes torque relatively early.

The M3 is a different story, that car pretty much does everything straight out of the dealership. I'm counting the days till I can upgrade to an M3/M5. I assume from your name that you practice medicine? I start my emergency medicine residency in june, so only 4 more long years of restless nights longing for the sweet embrace of an M car.

seivwrig: Good point regarding hp and acceleration, as many people overlook the power to weight ratio. Thats the compromise of sport-luxury cars, as all those creature comforts can lead to a pretty bloated vehicle. I'm still amazed at how well the current generation M5 scoots despite tipping in around 4000 lbs, so the GTRM3 must be quite the thrill ride. I was a big fan of the 315hp Z coupe despite its rather unique look, and look forward to seeing the new Z5(?) which may get the V8 treatment. I personally love the current performance trend, as it really benfits the consumer.

As far as $4 per gallon gasoline being a solution to our environmental woes, that would really slam the poverty line folks who have a hard enough time keeping their cars running, let alone worrying about buying a new fuel efficient vehicle. You should see some of the stuff rolling around inner-city chicago, you would be absolutely amazed. That was one benefit of spending some time at cook county hospital, it was like a little trip into the third world every time I turned off of the interstate.

-Getz

locke2c · December 2002

not to mention there's no guarantee those motor fuel taxes would be used on alternative fuels or even transit infrastructure. the taxes in place today often aren't used for that!

ugh, enough about that.

-Colin

mswickard · December 2002

Hello

I'm new to this forum and would like to get some pricing advice. Looking to buy a 2000 328i that has the sport and Premium packages. The buggy has 43.5K on it. The car is in excellent condition. Is 25500 a good price? I'm also considering another just like the one above that has 20000 miles and has the fold down rear seat, but not heated front seats....what is a fair price for this one .

Thanks for your input.

seivwrig · December 2002

The M5 is quite amazing. I like the stealth affect. Most people would never consider that you can blow their doors off when you pull along the side of someone. I like the Z cars. An uncle and aunt of mine, used to have matching 280Zs. There are alot of factors to consider in sporty cars. The whole lux-sport seems to work against itself, i.e. SL55. They need a bigger engine to work against the plush leather seats, power this and power that. I personally would like to see the M3 CSL in action. I think shedding the weight of the a regular M3 would definitely help. They are suppose to sell the CSL in GB.

seivwrig · December 2002

Personally, I prefer cosmetics.

Hamann Black grill kit ~$100
M3 steering wheel ~$350
BMW Clears ~$300
Myrtle brake handle ~$100
Juan Pablo bobblehead doll for the dash ~priceless

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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