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BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • skobolaskobola Member Posts: 207
    As much as I have followed E46's engines' specs, there was no change in displacement: both 323 and 325 had 2.5-liter displacement. However, 325 was re-tuned to increase horse power, because this was what people were looking at. You probably already know that the smaller 3-series was named 323 only to make it more distinguished from the 328, as BMW believed that less people would opt for 2.8 for quite the money difference if the car was "only" 0.3 liters beefier.
  • riezriez Member Posts: 2,361
    skobola... My wife has a '00 323ia. I know it has 2.5L. There wasn't any change in displacement for this smaller I6. But the 2.8L I6 did grow by 0.2L, from 2.8L to 3.0L. The above cited C&D article discusses what caused the changes in reported output for these motors from MY 2000 to MY 2001.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    So you did finally get your M3. Congratulations (I know it is a little late). Awesome car. WHat color combo did you end up getting?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • mxpro738mxpro738 Member Posts: 59
    BMW, I think, leaves us with one true dilemma.

    How many of you were one the fence about the coupe vs sedan decision? What did you decide to go with and what was your rationale?
  • kominskykominsky Member Posts: 850
    Coupe - Quite simply, my decision was based on styling. I have two children who are large enough to crawl into the back seat by themselves and small enough to not mind doing it. If I had car-seats to deal with or carted adults around regularly, I may have chosen the sedan. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    How does the convertible factor in?

    I have been leaning towards the coupe for the same reason that Komisky articulated above. However, I'm now considering just going whole hog and getting the 330Ci Convertible (I've always wanted one).

    Does anyone have personal experience regarding how much performance I will lose by going topless? By performance, I'm referring to body tightness, acceleration, etc. In other words, all of the things that make the 330i so wonderful...how much will they be muted by losing the top?

    To be honest, I'm having a difficult time deciding which 3 series to get. I was impressed with the 325i sedan, but each step up from there delivers more and more satisfaction. The only one I would never consider is the M3 Convertible because it's just too much money. Where to draw the line (and the cheque) is the tough part!
  • denkdenk Member Posts: 75
    I can't comment on how performance might be affected by a convertible design, but I have owned two convertibles(not BMW)in my younger days and can point out some of the things you should consider:
    -The seats get dirty very quickly and the sticky sap from the trees must be continually wiped off.
    -Convertibles are very hot in the summer so get used to sweating a lot.
    -The top will rattle after a few months.
    -Both of my convertibles developed leaks where the top meets the windows.
    -There will be a lot of wind noise.
    -Don't remember if there was a higher insurance premium.

    On the other hand, if you don't mind a little dirt in your eyes, a convertible can be very enjoyable on summer nights after the sun has set.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I can well relate to your experiences. I had a '79 Alfa Romeo Spider when I was in college and the top rarely went up (I lived in So. Cal.). When it was up, the top leaked noise and water like you wouldn't believe, and the tan vinyl seats were filthy.

    More recently however, I owned a '94 Mazda Miata and never experienced any of the issues that the Alfa was plagued with. It was tight, quiet (relatively), and rarely rattled or leaked.

    Funny, although the Miata was superior to the Alfa in every way, if I could choose one again today, I'd take the Alfa in a heartbeat.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    For any Houston BMW CCA members, the local chapter will be offering a Car Control Clinic. See link below for details.
    http://www.houston-bmwcca.com/driving/carcontrol/carcontrol03.htm
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    I got a sedan because I only had to wait a month for it (the one I wanted was on its way to the dealer). Coupe would have taken 3 months.
  • mg330cimg330ci Member Posts: 162
    I elected the coupe (5-spd manual)SP, leather, sunroof.

    I prefer the lines of the coupe (are they pretty or what?) Also, I just don't like the front of the sedan.

    My 2 kids have no problems in the back. One uses a booster, and there is reasonable space for getting her set-up on the booster. (our other vehicle is a Honda Odyssey, and we used it most of the time when we take the kids, without it, I might have picked the sedan)

    Adults at least up to 6ft are comfortable in the back.
  • mg330cimg330ci Member Posts: 162
    I don't know, the surgical facelift (literally) that BMW did to the 3 series is not of my liking.

    Following extensive surgery, BMW just inverted the turning signals from left to right and viceversa, so now it points up (smile) instead of down (mean?)

    Do you guys like the Joan Rivers (post facelift #237) look of the 2003, or the previous appareance of the 2002 model?

    Of course, this is just my personal opinion! (it is funny to analyze how this companies completely change the look of the car by doing this "complete extensive redesign" which means just switching the turning lights in betwen!)
  • dusterbusterdusterbuster Member Posts: 23
    Hi everyone,

    I currently have a 330i on order for European Delivery in June. One option that I've been waivering back and forth on is the Navigation system. I've never had navigation in my cars, but I've heard good things about them in general. It would be great for road trips and finding my way to new places around town without always getting on the computer and printing out maps from mapquest.

    My concern with ordering the BMW Nav system is (1) cost ($1640 invoice price), and (2) relatively lackluster reviews by people, esp. in comparison to other brands like Toyota/Lexus and Acura.

    Any recommendations or thoughts either way regarding the BMW navigation, in particular the current DVD-based system, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help everyone!
  • cecilt1cecilt1 Member Posts: 74
    I had the nav in my '00 323. I bought it when I lived outside of DC. It was great and very detailed. I moved to a more rural location and I never used it. I loved the screen and the displays. I thought it made the interior look much more luxurious as well. It moved the climate control down to the little eyeglass cubby hole which looked nice.

    In all honesty, it was kinda of a pain to use. If you put in directions and knew the way but wanted to "test the system" it would sometimes send you a different way that would be longer. To me it was easier to call to get directions on the cell phone then try to enter the address while driving. I would want it if I bought a used BMW to let the first owner eat the cost. I would not order the option if buying new.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Many of the "old wives tales" about convertibles don't really apply to the 3 series. Yes it will get hot and all of that, but BMW designed the coupe first as a convertible and then added the roof further along in the design stage. Unlike Toyota which has ASC chop the roof off of a Camry Solara so it's chassis is about as still as a wet noodle. The 3 series Convertibles have long been praised for their excellent structural rigidity and lack of cowl shake.

    As for coupe or convertible: when I was considering the 3 series last year, I was going fo a coupe all the way. But I was 26 and single at the time. I ended up choosing a Honda Prelude which is actually less practical then the 3 coupe.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear.
  • bkassingbkassing Member Posts: 13
    I had a '98 BMW 323 and have just ordered an '04 330.

    I disagree:

    " -The seats get dirty very quickly and the sticky sap from the trees must be continually wiped off.
     -Convertibles are very hot in the summer so get used to sweating a lot.
     -The top will rattle after a few months.
     -Both of my convertibles developed leaks where the top meets the windows.
     -There will be a lot of wind noise.
     -Don't remember if there was a higher insurance premium."

    A. Put the top up when you park under a tree (and everywhere else; why leave it down; it's autamatic.
    B. Well of course it is, there is no top. But if you get hot, put the top up and turn on the AC.
    C. I had mine two years. No rattles
    D. Duh. Of course there will be wind noise....it has no top.
    E. I don't think there is any insurance diffference.

    Convertibles are great. There is some overall firmness being that there is no top. However, it is a BMW. It's plenty firm.

    It does cost more. ;(
  • denkdenk Member Posts: 75
    I never dreamed anyone would take my comment about wind noise to mean when the top was down, so to clarify, I was talking about wind noise when the top was up.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I think I'd rather have a real roadster. It's not as if the 3 series trunk or rear seat are voluminous to begin with, take away some of that for the top and the side braces...

    Of course, the Z4 is pretty... ah, different. But I would've sprung for a Z3 without reservation.

    -Colin
  • ipatty13ipatty13 Member Posts: 47
    I was in the same boat as you on my recent ED purchase. Nav or no Nav? Is it worth the 1640? Will I use it enough to justify the cost? Is it really that inferior to Lexus' system?

    In the end, I decided to get the nav, and I bet every car I buy in the future will have a Nav. I'm not saying I am in love with the BMW NAV, but it can be very practical, and it super improves the car's interior, IMO.

    Ask yourself this (if you're financing some of the price): is it worth the extra 35-ish dollars/month? I can still answer that question affirmatively.

    The best way to analyze it is to see how many people out there with the nav are saying it is NOT worth it? I think you'll find that an overwhelming majority (including myself) say they are glad they have it.

    In other words, just bite the bullet and order it ;-)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, I have been batting this one around for a number of years, and for me, it's not worth it, yet. Why? Depending upon which model and model year, either two or four reasons:

    All Model Years:

    1) Cost, I simply cannot justify $1,800 for a fancy map, however, if we are talking about my wife, $3,000 isn't too much money. ;-)

    2) Cost of a periodic update is WAY more than a new Rand-McNally map book, and (based upon comments that I have heard) often times less accurate.

    Pre 2003 3-Series and All 5-Series:

    3) Cannot have the in-dash CD and the NAV system, you must opt for the cassette instead. Ugh!

    Pre 2003, All 3-Series and 5-Series models:

    4) NAV system was CD based, and required you to carry (purchase?) seperate CDs for different parts of the country.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    I guess I'll chime in.

    Is it worth it? I have used it plenty in my first year and have 23,000 miles,10 states and 4 countries to validate it.

    Is it accurate? Not always, it failed me most in my birthplace, Ipswich, England. It fail some more in my father's home town, Luton,England. I works quite well in Houston until I get downtown.

     The cassette player in the dash actually benefits me. I have over 300 cassettes and most religious material still comes on cassette. By the time some ministeries start using CDs, some other medium will out there.

    I would love to have the DVD based system but I have not seen the prices of the disc. As it stands now, you can get a set of updated disc for $200 to $300. If the update DVD costs $300, then you are only paying for convienence.

    It is good, because this co-pilot does not go to sleep. It is not the easiest system to use, I like the Nissan/Renault NAV but the BMW Nav does the job. I don't think I would want the touch-screen. I don't like grubby finger prints on anything.

    To tell you the truth there are very few options that are worth the money. IMHO, the only options that look like they are worth the money are the Bi-Xenon, SP and CWP.
  • mithiral67mithiral67 Member Posts: 10
    I was wondering, I heard somewhere that you must choose a package when you purchase a 330ci. Is this true, and are you also required to pick a package for the 330i? Thanks
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Who ever told you that told you wrong. You can certainly go an order a 330ci or 330i with non-metallic paint, and a leatherette interior, and not so much as a single option, and BMW will gladly produce your car for you for an MSRP of $36,295. That said, if you want to buy one out of dealer inventory, the betting is that you will not find one so (un-) equipped.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dusterbusterdusterbuster Member Posts: 23
    you guys make excellent points both ways on the issue of whether to order the NAV. in the end, i've decided to bite the bullet and just order it for much of the reasons listed by ipatty13. knowing me, if i ordered the car without NAV, i'd probably regret not paying the $30 or so extra per month for the system, especially those times when the mrs. and i are trying to find a restaurant from our trusty entertainment coupon book, or heading out for a weekend trip.

    i think for me, the extra $30 per month will be worth it for the added convenience of the NAV. still wish it was cheaper than the $1640 invoice price though.
  • newtobostonnewtoboston Member Posts: 31
    You mentioned that you had your car over in England. I was going to buy a new car when I moved over but a few weeks ago I learned it wasn't illegal to drive "right-hand" cars in England. Do you happen to know:

    (1) Would I lose free scheduled maintenance?
    (2) The costs to modify a 3-series to English specs?
    (3) Costs to ship?
    (4) In general, do you think it's worth it?

    I'd prefer to bring my car over because I'd take a big loss selling a 6 month old car and because cars are so expensive over there (that VAT is killer).
  • topspin627topspin627 Member Posts: 67
    I found the previous questions very interesting regarding the trade-offs of owning a convertible. I've never had one but like most of us, on those picture perfect days I find myself filled with lust when I see someone motoring by with the top down and a smile on their face. I live in the NE and we are in the grips of one of the worst winters in recent memory. So to those of you who've owned these tanning machines, what do you think? Do you get one and then move on to hardtops because it's out of your system or once you've owned one you don't go back? I have 18 months left on my 330 and I'm already contemplating my next 3 series. One and all feel free to chime in.
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Can't say if you should go top down or not in your next purchase, but if you do go top down, I'd recommend a 2000-01 M Roadster. They can be owned for $30k or so right now (assuming you can live with a roadster).
  • topspin627topspin627 Member Posts: 67
    Need the back seat and some trunk room for golf clubs etc. Was thinking that a 325 with SMG might be cool. My guess is that living where I do I would probably have the top down only about 20% of the time. So I would love to know what you give up in real world driving (I don't race) with the top up.
  • seivwrigseivwrig Member Posts: 388
    There are a few modifications that will have to be done to the headlight. US cars had their light point slightly to the right. You may have to get the city lights and rear fogs activated. My brother goes to England from Germany about four to six times a year. He has patches that deflect the light on his headlights.
    You would lose the free maintenance because their warranty is not as long as ours. Since you bought your car thru BMWNA, the warranty is different. You could probably call BMWNA on this. You should not have to change much but I can contact my brother. It is not illegal to have a LHD in England, some Brits have been known to buy their cars in Bellgium because of the ridiculous cost of some cars in the UK. I don't know the cost involved to taking a car to the UK. If you email me at seivwrig@swbell.net, I'll check with my brother before he get sent to war.
  • mithiral67mithiral67 Member Posts: 10
    First some back ground. I plan on buying a 2004 330i or 330ci towards the end of the year. Several of these questions I could answer at a dealership, but I am currently studying for the CPA so my time is limited. I am a first time buy and a little inexperience in many of the aspects of purchasing a car. I read edmunds advice on buying and it left some of my questions unanswered. I already know exactly what color and options I want.

    Now, would I lose some bargaining power by telling them about the exact car I want and having them find it for me?

    If they don't have the car I am looking for and they need to order it, then will I need to sign a contract to order the car, ie stuck buying it, or do I sign when I take delivery of the car?

    Does anyone know where I can find pics of the 330i with a aero package? BMW.com has a side pic, but I haven't found any front pics.

    Does anyone know if BMW plans to change the 330i's exterior like they did the 330ci?
  • cecilt1cecilt1 Member Posts: 74
    I have owned 2 in my life. A '91 and '94 Mustang GT. Both were not daily drivers. In a shirt and tie in the summer I wasn't crazy about it with the top down. But then again I was 24 and 27 with each vehicle and put up with it. Weekends it was great. No better feeling. I had cloth and would not get leather in a convertible. I hated to give my 94 up when I bought the '00 323. I do miss the convertible. However, I was finding out my girlfriend(now wife) at the time I had the Mustang didn't like to go out on a date with the top down. You know the whole it will mess my hair up thing. That got to be a drag(well, do I appease her and put it up when its a nice 75 degree late afternoon day or keep it down and drive in silence(music though). I normally kept it down :)

    I would not hesitate to buy another, especially a BMW but you will get leather in the BMW. Sticky in the summertime with shorts is all I can say. I wouldn't worry about a little loss in performance either.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Drive an M Roadster, then you'll probably giove up golf for Sunday drives:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • leenelsonmdleenelsonmd Member Posts: 208
    2003 M3 Steel Gray Metallic, Coupe, Xenons, Premium Package, HK stereo.

    convertible vs coupe:

    FWIW: I love the rigidity and the low noise level of the coupe over the convertible. The convertible is harder to keep clean, is slower, and the top wears out after a year or two (IMO). Get a coupe and put the windows down and sunroof back and you are almost there.

    Also, the convertible only seats 2 in the back and if you have a car seat then it will have to go on one side or the other. In the coupe, I can put it in the middle which is a little safer for the kids.

    If you have the money then get a convertible for the nice days and keep it parked in the garage when not in use.

    coupe vs sedan:
    I like the lines and the trim on the coupe more than the sedan. It also sits lower to the ground. I have a kid and soon to have another one and the 2 door issue has not been a problem at all...of course most of the time we use the Maxima for family outings, but the car seat fits in the back of the coupe just fine too.
  • leenelsonmdleenelsonmd Member Posts: 208
    Thanks for the info on the Houston car control school.

    I will send my app off tomorrow and hope that I make the cut.
  • mitchs3mitchs3 Member Posts: 68
    I have noticed my fuel economy has dropped some this winter. Others in cold climates notice the same? I live in Maryland and we have oxygenated fuels , perhaps this is to blame. Car seems to run fine. I remember from physics class that the delta in temperature defines Carnot efficiency, so by this theory colder weather should provide greater efficiency, though I doubt this boils down to real MPG. I am not complaining but my average mixed driving MPG fell from 25 to just above 24....Any comments....
  • gtom71gtom71 Member Posts: 17
    I haven't owned a Bimmer since my uncle gave me his old '84 318i when I started college. I now am interested in buying one, since my Acura Integra was stolen recently. I'm looking at 2001/02 325i's because they fit in my price range. Looks like I can get a decently equipped model for between $22-$27k. I have seen dealers in Canada w/ the appropriate color and equipment that I like. They also seem to be slightly better priced because of the exchange rate. It also helps that I have a cousin in Canada who can check out these dealerships and do the test drive for me. I know he'll be good because he's a car buff and he also owns a BMW. My question is do the Canadian cars have different specs or equipment? Besides an odometer change from metric system, what other mods are necessary? Anybody familiar w/ any customs or any other taxes? Any paperwork hassles? Any knowledge or guidance would be much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Gabe.
  • ipatty13ipatty13 Member Posts: 47
    dusterbuster,

    I think you'll be happy with your choice to buy the nav. If you aren't, though, please don't come stalking me! ;-)
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    You can always place the golf bag in the passenger seat. ;)
  • bgt1bgt1 Member Posts: 50
    I chose the sedan. One, its cheaper (why is the coupe MORE expensive?? strange) and two, the coupe has a back seat and if you intend to haul around 4 people just having two doors and moving the seats become SUCH a pain in the rear. Id rather have 4doors or JUST a two-seater instead of a 4/5 seater coupe. Used to have a coupe and it was more a pain than styling.

    Also, the coupe styling is not THAT much different to justify getting one. Now, if the bimmer coupe were radically different than the sedan like the Infiniti G35 coue and sedan, I would have considered it.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    The coupe has more standard features than the sedan. For example, it has the sport suspension standard, that's why the sport package option is much less on the coupe than the sedan.

    BMW's pricing structure is very rationale. If you option up a sedan to the coupe's level, the cost is pretty close.

    - Mark
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    For the 330, sedan & coupe have the sport suspension as standard.
  • ron504ron504 Member Posts: 9
    I would appreciate your attention and advice. I am finally getting rid of my MB C320 and purchasing a BMW. I am looking at 330Xi or 530i. My interest in the 330Xi is only for the all wheel drive aspect. Although I live in Arkansas and not much winter weather, we have periods of rain at times and think the sure footedness of Xi would be good. Options, convieniences, luxury, I think the 530 would be the thing. I would appreciate your opinions. Thanks!!
  • dave330idave330i Member Posts: 893
    Never had any trouble with rain in my 330i with SP.
  • tenet1tenet1 Member Posts: 354
    If you are worried about the rain then any BMW will do pretty well. No need for the xi for rain.

    Go with the 530
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    For Arkansas, I absolutely cannot see the need to spend the extra money on AWD. Consider the following:

    1) With the standard traction control, you will have to hammer the throttle pretty hard to cause an unsafe situation with the RWD cars when the roads are wet
    2) Even though accelerating from a stop will certainly be a little better in the wet with the AWD car, the handling and braking will be slightly worse (extra weight)
    3) The 330xi cannot be had with the better wheels and tires of either the 330i SP or the 530i SP

    All in all, I would buy the 530i, then again, I am biased; I have had both a 328i and a 530i, and I prefer the 530i.

    Good luck, let us know what you decide.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Buying an Xi simply for rainy weather is a huge waste of money. I simply can't imagine any situation where someone would need AWD to "feel confident" on a wet road. OTOH, if you want AWD to maintain high average speeds, you'll be much better served by a WRX, an S4, or a C4S. If you want a 330i, buy a RWD model and spend the extra $$$ on several BMW CCA driving courses.
  • mg330cimg330ci Member Posts: 162
    I believe the biggest difference between the two (currently) lies inside your skull

    Interior space is slightly larger on the 5, repeat, only slightly larger!

    Exterior volume is a big difference, being the 5 more voluminous.

    The 3 provides a more sporty-younger image (and somebody might call you a yuppie) while the 5 provides a more mature environment and image.

    The larger volume and weight of the 5 creates a compromise in acceleration and handling, although depending on how you drive, you might never get to notice this. (There is also the V8 engine :-)

    So, inside your skull (joke) your personality is what I think should make your decision. DO you like sporty cars, be happy with the lesser BMW in the lineup (3 series in general) or do you feel, you are a more mature individual, that will enjoy, perhaps, a more sober vehicle.

    Within the BMW range, a brand that created itself as the icon in sporty automobiles, you can view this to vehicles in the following scale:

    Sport----------50/50-----------Luxury------Abomination
    M-Roadster---3-------5--------7-----------------X

    My bias is: I drive a minivan and a 330ci sp manual
  • dusterbusterdusterbuster Member Posts: 23
    well, maybe you could give me your address then so i can test out the navigation system's accuracy? ;)

    i'm sure i'll enjoy the navigation. it's kind of amazing how the price of this car has slowly crept upwards as i've added options, etc. and to think, i was originally thinking of a mazda 6.
  • ron504ron504 Member Posts: 9
    My perspective is much clearer in that I think I would much rather have a more mature vehicle such as the 5 series than go for sporty fun. I am more concerned with bells and whistles and "cushiness" than cornering and feeling the rush. Although, I have been told by other 5 series owners that this is a fun car to drive. Does not the SP increase road feel and noise? What about tires? What's the recommendation? BTW, thanks for the great advice.
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