BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

brave1heart · April 2003

I check CR on most major household purchases that we make. It never crossed my mind to see what they think of my car. Frankly, I'd only care what they think of my car if my car didn't need more personality than a fridge or a toaster to put a smile on my face. I am planning on keeping my beloved '01 325i till I drive it into the ground.

markjenn · April 2003

CR used to rate cars like refrigerators, but not any more.

Consider their recent choices:

Best overall car: BMW 530i
Best sporty car: Subaru WRX
Best sports car: Honda S2000
Best family sedan: Accord/Passat
Best small sedan: Honda Civic
Best green car: Honda Civic Hybrid
Most versatile: Vibe/Matrix
Best small SUV: Toyota RAV4
Best mid-sized SUV: Honda Pilot
Best pickup: Chevy Avalanche
Best minivan: Honda Odyssey

Not a dog in this bunch. CR is not an end-all to the car buying process, but as the only publication which accepts no advertising, the only publication which buys their test cars on the open market (instead of being given "ringer" press cars), the only publication which actually tests things like bumpers, and the only publication which compiles comprehensive reliabliity data, it is highly valuable information in the car buying decision.

- Mark

vbscott · April 2003

This is an interesting discussion of how Consumer Reports issues reliability ratings. One fact to keep in mind is that there measure of reliability is relative. That is, they do not rate in terms pf problems per 1000 directly, but in relation to ALL cars on the road.

For example, CR does report problems per 1000 data in general, and they have shown that cars have been getting more reliable every year. That means that each manufacturer has to improve their models every year simply to maintain there position. If they don't, then as other cars get better, their model will slip.

So BMW has to match the quality improvements that Kia and Hyundai make, since their improvements move the average up as well. This means that the E46 3 series, which I believe started out better than average, has slipped in relative measure since it was first introduced, simply because the average car's reliability has improved and BMW has not made any dramatic changes in reliability.

CR even makes this point when they list NEW for reliability of redesigned models.

mg330ci · April 2003

I hope you'll get a big signing bonus with your contract in advanced!

On the other hand, keep enjoying your car, I cannot think of better psychotherapy after a long night on call than one of these bad boys ;-)

brave1heart · April 2003

I too was thinking that the M3 must be a huge stretch for your budget right now. One more reason to enjoy it!!

leenelsonmd · April 2003

I think that for any budget the M3 is a big stretch. Is it really reasonable for anyone to spend $55k on a car? Probably not. The vast majority of the people posting on this board seem to be sensible individuals, and if one was purely rational most of us should be driving a Honda Accord or something like that--maybe a WRX for those who really craved some performance.

I suppose that the car for me represents a high priority. I am actually a very frugal individual -- i almost never buy lunch, i skip starbucks, my wife and i usually split a meal at restraunts, we usually do not get wine at restraunts, etc. Everyone has those things that make them happy...i like starbucks, food, and wine, but I do not like them enough to spend that much money there, so i just skip it and then everytime I turn the key, I appreciate the small sacrifices like that.

I have also been shaped by my profession somewhat -- life is precious and frequently much shorter than you expect so I think that you should live every day to the fullest.

more later...

seivwrig · April 2003

Thats a good philosophy. Like is definitely short and should be lived to the fullest. On top of that you seem like a very responisible person. Why not drive an M3. I think that most of the individuals on the Edmunds would not drive a BMW if it would put them in the poor house. At some point, I would like to own a Porsche 911 (993) or Boxster but the insurance would kill me right now.
Enjoy the car. I'm always happy for nice and successful people.

shipo · April 2003

I have to hand it to Honda, this was a brave (and costly) undertaking.

http://home.attbi.com/~bernhard36/honda-ad.html

Notice the subject line; it says 'One "Take"', I did not say "Take One". In fact, this video was take 606. Wow.

Best Regards,
Shipo

leenelsonmd · April 2003

Thanks seiv for the comment.

I also do not have a high speed internet connection so shipo's post took me about 15 minutes to download. Were the tires rolling up hill there at the beginning? -- pretty awesome ad though.

Anecdotal reliability reports:

'91 Honda Accord - (Sold 106k miles) Engine Mount and Radiator replaced at 65k miles

'94 Honda Accord - (Sold 99k miles) Radiator replaced at 62k miles

'95 325i -- (Sold 100k miles). Passenger seat (electrical) broken--$750. CR in 4/2002 rated the '95 3 series as a best buy for a used car.

'00 Maxima - (Has 68k miles) Glove box latch broken at 60k miles (no abuse --cost $300)

'03 M3 -(11k miles) -- it is due now for its first oil change. Only problem was right daytime running light burned out about a month ago and was replaced.

I of course do not include routine items like brake service or changing belts or tune-ups in the above list.

In my experience I have not noticed a significant difference between the Japanese and the German cars that I have owned. When cars have over 60k miles it seems that about once a year or so you take it in and you get a bill between $500 and $1000 for various items related to routine wear and tear. I have never had to deal with electrical gremlins or catastrophic problems of any sort.

shipo · April 2003

Yes, the tires were rolling up-hill! Remember, I said "No special effects". So, how do you get a tire to roll up-hill? Simple, you glue a whole bunch of weight to one spot in the tire, then you balance the tire "Just So", with the weight at the top so that when it gets "Nugged" by something, the weight falls, effectively rolling the tire up-hill.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dan_bmw · April 2003

No disrespect but when someone tells ne they are frugal I interpret it as a nice word for cheap. I order appetizers, wine, and a meal that I refuse to share. I also tip well for good service.When I was younger I went through five months of watching young boys lives coming to an abrupt end and wondering If I would be next. Mine almost did; that is why I was only in that deadful place for 5 months instead of thirteen. That is why I buy expensive, high quality cars and enjoy them. I would think your profession would lead you to the same conclusions. But I do understand your approach and I respect your trade offs. I do agree with being reasonable on how far one goes paying for a car, even though th M is a beauty. Please don't take offense we all have different views.

butmywife1 · April 2003

Hi folks! ButMyWife-wife accidentally put 89 octane in the 3'er last week. I did a search on this board and found some posts that suggest no harm will be done save some performance. When I turned in the car to Harms in Munich last year to be shipped here I had to sign a document saying I had used only 92+ octane while driving in Europe.
Here my question: What is the reason for the document if the only ramification is a drop in performance?

Secondly, my original contis have 18,000 miles and the outside treads are all but a memory. I keep the tires inflated to 30, 35 (front/rear) and check them monthly. Question: Am I taking corners too quickly or improperly inflating the tires? I'd love to hear your opinions.

One year with the car and loving it.
ButMyWife

shipo · April 2003

If I remember correctly, the document that you signed at Harms was a statement regarding leaded fuel. Given that you can still buy leaded gasoline in Europe, and the fact that lead plays havoc with catalytic converters, the EPA will not allow any cars in the U.S. that have burned leaded fuel in their lifetime.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brislance1 · April 2003

My mind is a bit foggy on the cooling fan problem on some of the 00 and 0l 3Series cars. Does anyone out there remember which cars were affected by this problem and which fan was the problem one? I seem to remember that only a small number of 00's were affected.. I have an 00 and have had no problem and have received no notice of a problem from BMW. My car was manufactured in May of 00.. Thanks.

brave1heart · April 2003

30 psi is on the low side for the fronts - I run 32/34 F/R on the street and ~ 37/35 F/R on the track in my 325i, which weighs ~ 3,250 lbs. I forgot which 3-series you have but the heavier it is, the more pressure you should have in the tires. The best indicator are those little triangles at the end of the outside treads. If those are very worn out, that means your tires tend to be underinflated for the weight of the car and the type of driving that you do. Ideally, the tires should have just enough pressure so that when the car is pushed hard in corners, the tire patch will expand for better grip but without actually getting past the triangles. Too much tire pressure is not good because the tire won't be able to adjust the patch in hard cornering.

brave1heart · April 2003

You are safe - the '00 models never had the cooling fan issue. Most '01 models did all the way to ~ May-June '01. I think Siemens was the good fan and Bosch the bad one but I'd have to check.

brave1heart · April 2003

According to my records, Siemens was the bad fan and Bosch the good one.

bmw323is · April 2003

brislance, I also have a MY 2000. I did not get a recall on the fan, but I did get one for the thermostat. Biult in 02/00.

By the way, it seems that my battery is barely starting the car. My car is 3 years and 3 weeks old. That is not long enough for a battery to last, IMO. I don't remember if bateries are covered under warranty - my free maintenance ran out less than a month ago - go figure! If I can't get a new battery under warranty, I've heard good things about the Interstate batteries. And I've heard complaints about BMW batteries. Any thoughts?

jb_shin · April 2003

Despite what the label or BMW says about it being a maintenance-free, filling it up once or twice a season with distilled water is a good idea.

shipo · April 2003

Rarely have I had a car that had the OEM battery last three years. Oddly enough, my 1999 328i was on of them. The only other car was my 1998 LeBaron GTC; that battery lasted 47 months; unfortunately, the lease on that car was 48. :-/

Best Regards,
Shipo

leenelsonmd · April 2003

I think there is a difference. I agree that when most people use the word, cheap might come to mind. I know it is off thread, but I am definitely not cheap. I usually tend to leave a very large tip for two reasons 1) I have a child, and 2) my meal tends to cost less than the average person. For average service I tip 20% on the total bill and for great service I sometimes tip up to 35% just to show my appreciation. It is also a nice way to redistribute wealth -- and when I was young and working jobs like that the little extra tips just made my day.

I think that by Frugal, I am focused in where I spend the money. I like the bimmer and did not think twice about spending the money for it. I think that a better word my be that I am Utilitarian -- I try to get the most "Utils" for every dollar I spend and so if something doesn't have enough "Utils" for me then I just skip it. Everyone is different and I think part of enjoying life is determining what has the most "utils" for you.

BTW: I took no offense whatsoever at what you posted.

FWIW: When I am out with friends I actually enjoy ordering wine since it adds so much to the atmosphere and since it is usually pretty easy to finish a bottle when at least 2.5 people are enjoying it.

Shipo: I love the counterbalance technique that you describe--I did not think about that. I knew that you would have the answer though.

butmywife1 · April 2003

Thanks for the great info. So, does it hurt my 325xi to run on 89 octane? I noticed that I got about 5 mpg better on the 89.

BTW, I posted a couple of months ago about a rattle that I could hear with my left ear which seemed to be coming from the left rear door. Sure enough, the wood panel bracket contraption had broken so the dealership fixed it. No rattle!

ButmMWife

nyccarguy · April 2003

Well, I was at the auto show at the Javitz Center today (there's no such thing as organized crime, ok people). Without taking up 5 pages worth of postings on my thoughts, I do want to say that the BMW display was (and always is) very complete. They had every car open and most of them were sticks. Contrary to the Crysler display and the Chevy diplay which had cars which were loced, explain that one. I think I convinced my Dad to take a serious look at the X5 when the lease is up on his QX4 in about a year.

back to the 3 series though. The 2 M3s they had there (1 coupe, 1 convertible) had the optional 19" wheels which I think don't look as nice as the 18 inchers that come on the car. Loved the Imola Red w/ Black leather interior.

They had a Red/Black 330i with performance package. What a mean looking car. I love it.

For the first time in a while I can say that I like the 3 sedan better than the 3 coupe. They had a 325i & 325CiC next to each other, both with SP. The wheels on the SP 325Ci are new (for '04 I guess) and they don't look nearly as sharp (imo) as the style 44 (?) wheels that originally came with the E46 328i SP and then the E46 325i Sp until now. I really like the 325i with SP wheels. They had a Silver/Black w/ 5 speed on display. No matter how many Silver BMWs I see, they're all still pretty cars.

dan_bmw · April 2003

Thanks for your very intelligent and reassuring response. I guess we should stay focused on BMWs and you make a good point about being utilitarian. I think I got the most utils when I recently ordered a 330i. Probably for the first time ordering a car, I decided to negotiate only the very best deal and I think I did. It does give you greater satisfaction. I can assure you that when our car comes in (hopefully 4/24/03) that my wife and I will redistribute some wealth at our favorite restaurant. Best wishes.

Dan

div2 · April 2003

Both of my Bimmers have their original batteries; the ti has a 10/95 build date while the 528i has a 5/96 build date. I do top the batteries up with distilled water every six months or so. FWIW, new BMW replacement batteries claim to be maintenance-free but in reality all Munich did was stick a big label over the filler caps.

motorcity3 · April 2003

Hello everybody,

I ahve a question about a possible problem. For the past few days my a/c (fan) has been acting up. It comes in and out as I am driving. I am not talking about the fan blowing stronger and then weaker. I am talking the fan stopping blowing all together. I look at the auto-climate and it is half way up but the fan has stopped blowing. Even when I raise the fan speed I still get nothing. Sometimes it comes in a few minutes later and then goes out again. Other times it goes out and does not start again unless I shut off and restart the car. Has anyone had this problem? Is it a known problem? I own a 2001 325i about 23K miles.

Thank you for any information.

brave1heart · April 2003

We had our first Boston CCA autoX this year. We are running on the same field as last year at Devens Airport but the track is almost twice the length of last years!! My runs were in the 50s last year; on the new course they are in the high 90s. The course layout is also easier to read and follow, and most important  faster. I topped out in second gear twice during a six-cone slalom, which means 60 mph in my car. Thats a wildly fast slalom based on what Ive seen in the past. We managed to get 6 runs only but the intent is to get 8 once we get past the inevitable glitches at the beginning of the season. If that works out wed be getting pretty good seat time. Based on preliminary results, I think I placed 4-th in my run group out of ~ 10 cars. Shockingly, the best driver in the group is a 19-year old kid who runs the same E30 318is with his dad and they placed 1-st and 2-nd respectively. Theres no catching these guys  they are outstanding drivers and their car has an all custom-built suspension. They are running as fast as the M3s, if not even faster. The engine is stock, except for a K&N filter and a Triflo exhaust. Just goes to show that you can win with only 130 HP against cars with 100 ponies more with the right suspension and driving skills. The other guy that placed ahead of me drives an E28 M5, which seems like an awesome car, not to mention that hes also a very experienced driver. I know I have to improve my driving skills but I may need at least anti-sway bars to maybe have a shot at these guys. Another thing I liked about this years autoX is that unlike last year, the BMWs run with none-BMWs on the same course. Different classes of course but you get somewhat of an idea how you car stacks up against other street cars. Kudos to the organizers for a job well done!

dave330i · April 2003

Wow! 90 sec is a long autox course. We average 60 sec out here. How many run groups do you guys run?

hgeyer · April 2003

Now that the war in Iraq is over and Gerhard Schroeder has come as close as any German ever will to apologizing for Germany's "exaggerated remarks" against the US, we need to drop the boycott of German products (the 330i PP is looking really nice) and switch our disdain towards National Public Radio. Here's why:

Last Saturday, I packed up the family for a drive to the in-laws to celebrate Easter. I tuned in Tom and Ray Magliozzi, who fielded the following call from Kathie in Washington, paraphrased below:

Kathie: "I have a disagreement with my boy friend. When did it become acceptable to drive up behind someone and flash your high-beams to get them to move over. He says that this is how people drive on the Autobahn."

Tom & Ray: "He must be one of those BMW drivers (he actually was), and he is a moron. While he may wish that the car in front of him would "vaporize", it is he who should be vaporized." "You need to dump him."

The exchange was quite funny and can be heard at

www.cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Show/
(click segment 6)

Unfortunately, these statements only perpetuate the type of stereotype of BMW drivers that I try to live up to. It also provided for 3 hours of "I told you so" from my wife.

dave330i · April 2003

That's pretty funny, since according to most state traffic law, that's how you're suppose to signal a slower traffic to yield to faster traffic.

bigorange30 · April 2003

and am getting the same "I told you so's" from my wife. Hey dave, how can we a copy of that traffic law that says that?

hippo168 · April 2003

Just think for a moment, they even have different colors (blue and red), AND the siren. : D

dave330i · April 2003

Here's a link: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs41thru43.htm

look under headlight. I used to know of a better link, but can't seem to find it right now.

bigorange30 · April 2003

http://www.motorists.org/issues/safety/seven_signals.html

Its not law but these guys seem to have good intentions.

jb_shin · April 2003

Actually, it is considered to be "rude" to flash from behind. More proper way, at least I heard is, to use your left turn signal to indicate that you are moving faster and wish to pass.

BTW, according to some of our German friends, there are 3 lanes on the autobahn. Right lane for slow moving cars, middle lane for passing, and left lane for BMWs. Supposedly, some people will hesitate to cross a street if they see a BMW coming their way, as they feel that the aggressive BMW driver won't slow down or stop. Stereotypes are pretty much the same whether you are in Germany, or US.

leenelsonmd · April 2003

Had first oil service performed today. My car is almost 6mo old with 11.2k miles.

The service guy laughed because my first oil service was due at 11k miles -- he said most are 14-15k miles. He knew I have been driving it for all it is worth.

They replaced the windshield wiper inserts too.

Of course all of this was free, but it is interesting that 1 BMW oil service equals 3-5 oil changes at Jiffy Lube. I love that. It represents a significant environmental advantage too since it decreases the amount of waste oil by 60-80% over most other vehicles.

Enjoy.

erickpl · April 2003

For anybody looking for an M3, check out the site:
http://www.cccbmwcca.org/ and check out the classifieds...

-Paul

locke2c · April 2003

200k miles and $19,500???

-Colin

brave1heart · April 2003

From what I understand, we are following the classes used by the Golden Gate chapter, so you should be very familiar with them. There are 10 BMW classes and 5 none-BMW classes, which are the same as the SCCA's.

http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/events/2003/autocross.asp?page=rules

bmw323is · April 2003

Thanks to all for the responses on batteries. I must admit that I've never checked the water in my battery (my bad). I thought it was a sealed maintenance-free type and, besides, I never think to go to the trunk when checking all of the fluids. I'll do better from now on. By the way the car wouldn't start this morning, so I used Roadside Assistance tonight to flatbed it to the dealer. They showed up in 30 minutes and were very nice. The service advisor said there may be something wrong with the electrical system and they wanted to check it out. They told me $200 for a new battery, unless something else is wrong, in which case it would be under warranty. I know that is way too expensive, but what else could I do - not knowing what the problem really is?

I'm becoming more frustrated at the problems I've had with my car. I still love the drive and the look of the BMW. Here is a list of problems in my 3-year history.

4,100 miles - replace clutch bushing (noise), aim headlights (poor factory aiming)
7,700 - replace power steering pump (leaking)
9,200 - seat belt noise (not fixed properly)
11,400 - thermostat recall
16,200 - seat belt noise (not fixed again - broke B pillar trim in process - gave up trying to fix)
17,900 - passenger front window stuck in down position (replace regulator)
21,900 - replaced ventilation fan limit switch (fan went crazy)
24,000 - engine noise - determined to be defective fan (serpentine) belt
25,300 - dead battery (or electrical problems?)

So what does everyone think? Too many problems for a high quality vehicle, or am I just making too big of a deal? I've owned 8 new cars in my lifetime, and this one is close to the top of the list in problems (also the best in many other ways).

kdshapiro · April 2003

Those types of issues were along the same ones I had on my 3 Nissan vehicles. Niggling little issues that drove one crazy. FWIW, the dead battery issue can happen in any vehicle. BMW does not have the market on batteries that last forever. I've had batteries last as little as a year and as long as 5 years. The life of a battery depends on a multitude of factors. The power steering, thermostat, window regulator, and ventilation fan limit switch are not indicative of good quality materials. The fan belt can take a beating based on rpms and weather and should be replaced minimum every three years anyway.

jb_shin · April 2003

Checkout www.bmwtips.com for battery links. People have found replacement for about $90.00. FWIW, the original BMW battery goes for about $70 in Germany. I am wondering what makes them so special to be so expensive in the states.

jay108 · April 2003

Just be glad you are covered by warranty. The only way I would consider BMW ownership is new, buy or lease or maybe a factory certified car.

My BMW wasn't covered by warranty so I had to pay for all sorts of stuff out of pocket.

-flashers- we have strict speed limits in this country, just because you like to speed doesn't mean we have to give you the right of way.

jay108 · April 2003

I can't quote the source, but I read that BMW has the highest profit per car sold of all manufacturers.
This means they build the cheapest car and sell it for the most money. Hats off to BMW marketing.

bigorange30 · April 2003

Oh, that's funny. If I travel the speed limit on most interstates, I will get run over. I routinely see people passing me like I'm sitting still while I am doing the speed limit +5 mph even with a policeman in the opposing set of traffic.

dave330i · April 2003

I guess I wasn't clear. What I was wondering was number of participants at your autox. We usually have about 40 cars broken down to 4 run groups. Everyone gets 6 runs, with each run lasting about 60 sec. Even with such a small group & short runs, it still takes all day.

div2 · April 2003

Check his profile-he drives a GEO, for Pete's sake! He's probably never even SAT in a BMW, unless he got free tickets to the local New Car Show...

kdshapiro · April 2003

jay108 - can you back up your assertion that BMWs are made of cheap materials? What is the definition of cheap? The 3/5 series has been lauded for making the best of high quality materials. BMWs' fake wood trim is certainly not any faker than Infinitis'. And I don't need the weight and expense of a fully decked out interior in my 3-er. And the rest of the interior is quite good looking compared to other "cheaper" looking brands. In the mechanical dept I just heard a Nissan advertisment about bringing your car in every 3,000 miles. BMWs service interval is 15,000 miles. A 15,000 mile service interval is not indicative of "cheap" componentry.
***
In most of the country it is against the law to drive in the left hand lane, even if you are going over the speed limit. The left lane is supposed to be used for passing only. The "left lane Richard" should be tarred, feathered and ticketed.

kyfdx · April 2003

If you want the trolls to go away, you have to ignore them.

kdshapiro · April 2003

trolls - most trolls are looking for information as they usually are subobtimally informed.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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