BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

blueguydotcom · June 2003

If you want to vastly increase highway safety and lower death rates, institute German-style driver training and vehicle inspection programs. Fund it by diverting ticket revenue from local municipalities to a national driver training fund. You'll see a lot fewer tickets, a lot less deaths, and cops redeployed from revenue generation to more beneficial activities.

Amen to that!

cabbatan1 · June 2003

Wow,this discussion board moves quick.. Anyway,here is my 2 cents on the back seat issue of the 325. I think Mark said it perfectly in a previous post. "This car is just fun" Well put!
If you are trying to convince yourself that you can fit 3 kids back there and you are comparing it to an Accord or a mini van.. Forget it.. Its not as big. What is the worst thing that can happen? Kids don't complain about space,it's the parents perception that kids need lots of space. I have two huge teenagers and they think the back of my 325 wagon is like a limo. It's all what you are have been used to and I have never owned huge vehicles or mini vans. In Europe,a VW golf is considered a family vehicle. Having said that,get the car you want,not the car you think you need..

scipio1 · June 2003

OK, so I just couldn't part with the 330i. I ended up writing the check for the residual value today. My wife is ecstatic. She loves it.

Now that I'm committed to keeping it though, I'm determined to fix some of the things I had lived with before when it was really mine. Parts are already on the way for the steering power assist retrofit.

Here's the question: I'd like to goose the wheel size. I compromised when I bought it because I really wanted the color and the only one they had didn't have the sport package.

www.aaarims.com has "replica" wheels for sale and claims to be of comparable quality to the OEMs. Does anyone know if this is true? Are replicas really as good as the OEMs? If not, how much difference is there? Has anyone bought anything from aaarims and have any feedback? Thanks in advance,

njdriver1 · June 2003

Hi - I've posted over in problems, but I wanted to ask over here: any opinion on the dealer suggesting they change the entire transmission after 20,000 miles on a 2001 auto? The idiot light came on with the service engine light, and after 3 days with the car, BMW wants the dealer to change the comp chips. But the tech's want to replace the entire transmission. A year ago, they had to replace the "valve body" of the trans. Maybe it is a bad transmission?

Can I request that they replace the transmission anyway, since its under warranty? Or, is that so major, I'm better off with them trying to solve this through the computer?

Thanks

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Cabanan- Thanks for those words of wisdom:

"What is the worst thing that can happen? Kids don't complain about space,it's the parents perception that kids need lots of space." and also--"Having said that,get the car you want,not the car you think you need."

I'm convinced...after all the kids will always complain and fight -"don't touch me". "you are breathing on me" and many other tipical stuff regardless of car size. Even in a minivan wich I do not have and will NEVER get.

Maybe a smaller car is what they need...so they can come closer as a family. hee...hee! Thats it!...this is my excuse and I will quote my friends in this forum.

About the legs...oh well this generation hardly uses them anyway...maybe we can chop the off. These kids knowadays rather keep their fingers in order to play video games - against everything I ever did when I was their age.

kyfdx · June 2003

I wouldn't go with aftermarket wheels. Take a look on Ebay.. You should be able to find plenty of used factory wheels to upgrade to 17". They might have a scratch or two, but you'll know the quality is there.

regards,
kyfdx

ajvdh · June 2003

Used factory wheels is a good route. But don't cross aftermarket off your list, you just have to do a little investigation. There are a lot of "bling-bling" high fashion wheels that are junk. OTOH "name brands" e.g. BBS, Fikse, SSR or Enkei are frequently superior to the OEM wheels.

Two things to keep in mind - less weight is better for ride and handling, forged is stronger than cast. If you call Tire Rack, you can usually pry that info out of them. An alternative is http://www.wheelweights.net - I don't know how up to date it is.

A data point - I bought a slightly used set of BBS RK, complete with almost brand new tires for $1200. The wheels are stronger than my stock rims, and 6 lbs lighter each. They're also so pretty I almost feel bad about only using 'em for track and Solo.

lukyme · June 2003

Hello again. Next time I'm at the dealer I will ask them. Seems like this must be the norm. It's not really a problem, just different from what I'm used to. I have a Nissan 350Z automatic also, and it has the "drive by wire" accelerator, which I believe is an electronic method of signalling the amount of pedal pressure to the engine, instead of the common cable/sheath. If you touch that pedal, the thing goes...no hesitation at all. If anyone else has info. about the BMW slight acceleration hesitation at start off, let us know.
Thanks

scipio1 · June 2003

As I looked closer, the more suspicious the aaarims.com wheels looked... they're not the stock sizes and don't offer bigger rear tires. Too bad.

The 330i currently runs on 7x17 stock BMW rims, which I find a bit less confidence inspiring. I'd be delighted if there was a way to economically upgrade them to the old 17" M double-spoke type 68s. I had those wheels on my E36 M3 and I loved them, just gripped like crazy. They would be my first choice as replacements.

I have the 18s on my current E46 M3, but I'm wary of whether or not 18s would really fit well on the 01 330 (I read somewhere that BMW altered the wheel well of the M3 to fit the rear 255s in... but now everyone has the option of 18s: did they alter the wheel well on all the subsequent E46s or does that mean the 255s should fit in ANY E46?) Add in the possibility that I'd have to recalibrate the speedometer etc. and it's too much work to go to 18s.

If I could find a good set of current M3 19s thoguh, I might be tempted to get them, slap em on my M3 and try to transfer the current 18s to the 330...

Does anyone have experience with the 325 sport package 8x17s? Any good? Are they almost as good as the 330's M double spokes (yes, I know the rears are bigger)? More importantly, are they a noticeable improvement on the 7x17s on the stock 330?

Thanks in advance everyone...

walter12 · June 2003

As I understand it, if the two choices are fiddling with the chips or a new transmission, I would go with the transmission. This seems to be a no brainer since the techs are recommending the tranny after examining your car. BMW did not examine your car and it seems that they would recommend the chips because it would be less expensive.

By the way, is this a new transmission or a rebuilt one? I think I read here or on another board that various manufacturers make the BMW transmissions but that the quality is fairly similar. Hope things work out for you.

scipio1 · June 2003

I just saw one of the new Mercedes CLK 500 coupes on my commute home...

It's horrendous! An abomination! Holy cow someone tell BMW Chris Bangle has been moonlighting for the competition!

Words failed me utterly. How could they possibly do that to a reasonably presentable vehicle? MBs had fallen considerably out of favor with me (owned a 1985 190E 2.3, but haven't seriously considered one since), but the CLK convertibles were starting to grow on me, partly because every 5th car down here in Westwood/Brentwood/Beverly Hills is a CLK cabrio.

I mean, they're still overpriced and slow compared to a 330ci, but once you get used to the lines they're really quite pretty, in an elegantly sedate and feminine kind of way. God I hope the new CLK cabrios fared better than that coupe.

nyccarguy · June 2003

Well, not to start a totally different topic here, but I personally don't think the CLK (coupes & cabriolets) was ever meant to compete with the 3 series (Coupes & Convertibles). 1st off, MB doesn't need the CLK line to compete with anything because they sell pretty much every one they make. Most (I think) CLK buyers buy the car for the style, the luxury, the everyday performance, & the 3 pointed star.

The old CLK 430 Coupe is still one of my favorite cars on the road. If I had the oppurtunnity to buy one, I would (even though it is only available in automatic and I love my manual tranny) The new CLK does nothing for me. It isn't ugly, it just isn't head turning. I see where they were trying to go by eliminating the B Pillar and incorporating the CL style Grille.

sta2 · June 2003

I've lurked here for a spell and you folks seem to have most answers. We're interested in a loaded 04' 330 cic.

Are the rear seats split folding? We're intersted in the Cold Climate Package with the Ski Sack, but we'd like at least one of the rear seats to fold down.

Anyone, anyone.......

Dave

billherrmann · June 2003

I have an 03 330xi that has absolutely no hesitation when the gas petal is pressed. The response is so immediate that I usually lead off with that aspect when listing the many super features of this fine automobile. To anyone who is experiencing hesitation, I say SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!

kdshapiro · June 2003

With the cold weather package, dual 60/40 split folding seats come with the vehicle.

jay108 · June 2003

you are willing to accept a Consumer Reports 'fair' rating as listed in the July 2003 issue.

Since I'm a fair and balanced writer I must report that several cars received the lowest rating of 'poor', they are: MB C320, Jag X-type, and Lincoln LS, Audi A4 Quattro also got a 'fair' rating.

The BMW did receive the best overall score of excellent though.

Machines getting 'very good' or 'excellent' scores are Lexus IS and ES, Acura TL S-type and the Infiniti G35.

If you place high importance on reliability, you best shop at the Japanese store near you.

uga91 · June 2003

Again, I know I'm only a visitor here, but at least I'm not a troll like you. I read your bio and it says "I like all sorts of cars except BMWs and huge SUVs." Your last 3 posts were here and the "I don't like SUVS, why do you?" thread. Why don't you stick with your Pontiac Vibe thread and leave the threads for cars you do not like alone? I also remember Consumer Reports calling the BMW 530i the "Highest rated car ever" so they must not hate BMWs as much as you do.

white6 · June 2003

Could it have something to do with the "learning" curve of the computer? I know that they have a fuzzy logic adaptation that "learns" your particular driving style.

kdshapiro · June 2003

is no car at all. It's your two feet. Don't buy any car, unless you are willing to risk, break-downs, lousy dealer service, unscheduled trips to the dealer and a lot of expense.

I don't buy the supposed bullet-proof Japanese vehicles as 5 vehicles, Honda, Toyota and Nissan over a number of years, in my mind, gives an average rating to reliability.

You will also note, that in the JD Power initial quality survey, BMW edges out Infiniti. After a year and a half, my own experience with the BMW is that it is heads above any past Japanese vehicle I've owned. Of course, it's more expensive as well, but a heck of a lot more fun to drive.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

Machines getting 'very good' or 'excellent' scores are Lexus IS and ES, Acura TL S-type and the Infiniti G35.

Of that group only the G35 can be called a serious contender. The rest are nice enough cars, just not sports sedans.

lukyme · June 2003

Made me stop and think about this. I am a conservative driver, and have been easy on the car for the break-in. Maybe this thing has assumed that I only start off slow, so has built this into a memory...I sure hope not. But it's something I will mention to the service tech. anyway.
If so, I will need to untrain the computer by taking off like a bat outta you know where. That will be fun.

kdshapiro · June 2003

If you want to take off like a bat outta you know where, shift it into sport mode. The car has two distinct personalities, between regular and sports mode. Regular gets me 24+mpg. Sports mode will not be that high due to the more aggressive shifts.

jay108 · June 2003

Now doubt the BMWs are great running cars. The reliability thing is really kind of a moot point since everything is covered by their warranty.

ksoman · June 2003

the cold weather package adds just a ski sack that goes through the ski pass through or whatever it is called, the rear seats are not folding in either 325 or 330 convertible. The other things the cold weather package adds is the high pressure washer for headlights and 3 step heated front seats.

buy anything and everything you want, but absolutely get the adaptive bi-xenon...

ksso

scipio1 · June 2003

Actually I think the ski sack and folding seats come together. You can pay for the option without the cold weather package (had the folding seats/ski sack in both my E36 and E46, without the CWP). Absolutely invaluable for those runs home from IKEA if you lack a backup SUV. I think it cost about $400-500 on my last one. Luckily, it comes standard the coupes/cabrios.

ksoman · June 2003

1. i have a 2004 325 convertible which has no split folding
2. i have the cold weather package which does not include split folding
3. the only reason we bought the 325 over the 330 was because the first 2004 in at the dealership was a 325 in the exact color wife was fixated on, but having test driven 2003 330 cic, i know they did not have the folding rear seats with the cold weather package
4. i looked at the spec sheets i'd on both the 325 and 330 and the 2004 brochures and both do not talk of folding rear seats...

but then i'm not as bmw savvy as some of the others on this topic....

buy any combination you want, but absolutely get the adaptive bi xenons, hey if nothing else just get those lights alone !!

haha, I know i would

ksso

scipio1 · June 2003

That's very strange. I haven't used them in my cabrio, but I'm pretty sure I have them. I'll check later.

Back in 2001, when we paid the $4-500 for the split folding seats in the 330 sedan, they were definitely standard in the coupes/cabrios. I used it as an argument to get my wife to agree to a coupe. I lost.

kdshapiro · June 2003

"you are willing to accept a Consumer Reports 'fair' rating as listed in the July 2003 issue."

I accept this as I accept the JD Power Initial Quality Survey, which lists BMW ahead of Infiniti. Yes, BMWs are great running machines, but I am unclear how that statements translates into the fact my BMW goes into the dealer once a year for service and has no mechanical or reliability issues.

Statements like that at the 50,000 foot level sound great, except it doesn't really tell you what side of the ownership experience you will be on. Just ask my friends who had their Honda bought back under the lemon law.

ksoman · June 2003

I think every few years there is a resurrgence of people buying german cars or german branded cars... then reality hits in because cost of maintenance is higher (i'm not saying rate of maintenance, just cost) and then everybody goes tangentially opposite to japan or japanese branded cars... the only loser in this whole deal is the so called native 3 or now native 2?

ksso

sopecreek · June 2003

Have any of you 3-series owners actually benefited from buying extended warranty? I mean I bought a couple for my cars before. You must get all the scheduled maintenances done, otherwise warranty companies are likely to refuse to pay for repairs. But if you do get those maintenances, your chance of having problems that are serious enough to justify the cost of the purchase is very low. I paid $600 and $500 for two and only one vehicle had repair done under that warrnty (made in Dearborn.) I paid deductible of $100 and the warranty paid $120. So in all, I paid $1200 and got back $120 worth... There was peace of mind but it came more from following maintenance intervals not so much from the warranty. I'm not buying the ext. warranty again.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

When I leased my 330i the dealership told me at the end of the lease I can buy the car and they'll make it a CPO (thus giving me another 2 years or so under warranty).

scipio1 · June 2003

how much do they want for that?

blueguydotcom · June 2003

No idea. Didn't press the matter because it's all moot at this point. If the car turns out to be a dog it'll go back. If something more entertaining is out, it'll go back. The only way I'll keep the current car is if it's running perfectly and there's nothing more exciting available.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Please share- I was surprise to find during my visit to the BMW dealer that a 325 with Nav and premiun package after a discount came down to mid 33K I did not go into the specifics or negotiations b/c I am not at a purchase point.

My question is how can a BMW with a cost of mid 33K have a lease payment of $378 per month tax included. A maxima of similar price has a payment of $515.

Is this true? Do they actually lease so well. I can only think of a superior Residual Value that brings the monthly payment down.

I rreally did not ask the sales guy to give me a monthly payment b/c I do not negotiate on monthly payments I negotiate car price, discounts and how close i can get to sticker price or go below MSRP.

If these cars lease so well its almoust a no brainer to get one. WHICH LEADS ME TO THE SECOND QUESTION. iS MAITANANCE EXPENSIVE ON A LEASE?

ryoken · June 2003

It's a combination of the high residual value and a low money factor (lease version of interest rate). BMWFS is, I believe, offering rather low money factors on 3-series leases.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

When you lease (or buy) a 3 series you get 4 years/50k miles of free service.

BTW, you can make your lease even LOWER. Do a search here on Multiple Security Deposits or MSDs (you need to buy before june 30th to get the best deal).

Check bimmerfest.com too. Nobody at BMW will tell you about MSDs but if you're leasing it's a great way to bring down your payments and make your money supply some massive returns.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

I did see/read someones explanation about this MSD. I did not fully u8nderstan but did see that a large chunk of money needs to be put down at a determined interest rate that will be returned at the end.

If this is the case I would be a bit hesitant to invest my money in some kind of lease program. Other alternatives apeal more to me.

I probably need to go over this and will visit the suggested website. Thanks blueguy for advice.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Thanks to all for sharing regarding MSD's. I did only a bit of research and found the following.

Leasecompare.com moderator said: "In general we do not recommend doing it. The idea of leasing is to pay as little up front as possible. "
-Tarry Shebesta

The Lexus Lease Glosary defined it as:
"Multiply Security Deposits
Lexus provides you with a special feature to leverage your investment in a Leased Vehicle. You may provide multiple security deposits beyond the required minimum amount and these additional deposits will help to further reduce your Lease Rate. All of your security deposit will be returned to you upon expiration of your lease."

So Lexus says "ALL OF YOUR sECURITY DEPOSIT WILL BE RETURNED TO YOU UPON EXPIRATION OF YOUR LEASE"

I do not feel confortable giving several thousand dollars to a dealership or for that matter a car manufacturer. Things are not well with this economy and we all know how this corpoprations can make it hard to almost imposible when it comes to returning money. Simply put, they are not in business to return money...they are in business to make money and the more the better.

There may be better places and things. Anyway, I only found this by researching a few minutes so there may be opinions that prove me wrong and make this alternative a positive one. Will keep searching and learning!

These forums do help

riez · June 2003

sailoverfuel... I'm no fan of leasing, but not sure you are adequately comparing what the MSDs can do for you. Key to leasing is to pay as little as possible over the life of the lease, not necessarily just up front. (Though given the time value of money, money up front is more "valuable", but with such low general interest rates, you can't get too much if you invested the money elsewhere.)

You have to calculate the rate of return on the money you put down into the MSDs versus what you could get elsewhere with that same money. Guessin' you'll find you won't be able to get much of a rate of return on this small investment over just a 2-4 year term (e.g., CD, T-bill, money market fund, etc.). Then see how much money you save on the lease payments. Turn that into an annualized percentage basis and you can compare. If investing the money gets you 3-4 percent but the MSDs get you 5-6 percent, you're better off with the MSDs. If not, don't.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

Let me put it this way, I handed them a refundable $5000 and it'll save me $2500 over 3 years. That's a 16-17% return per year on my investment. And BMW will give it back at the end of the lease because: a. i have a contract, b. like any security deposit it comes back to me at the end of the lease rental - unless I decide to buy the car and then it goes toward the residual.

If you can show me somewhere that I can turn 5000 into 7500 in 3 years I'm interested. Especially in this economy.

Also, why is BMW changing the MSD program to a max of 5?

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Blue...you are right. According to your numbers. I am just a skeptic when it comes to getting money back from BMW or any other corp.

When u return your lease...you say they give it back. I am sure the contract may be/seem that simple and includes several disclosures and protections for BMW as THEY, not you, wrote the contract for their protection.

What about the condition of the car? Are they allowed to get dollars from this deposit if they claim the auto needs work? Or is this a deposit that is set appart?
I will check all this.

Riez- I do understand your point. My case as others may have, is this. I do not pull 5k from a checking account. Since having $ laying around is worthless. It would mean taking it out from an investement. But you are right it may still be smart to do the MSD assuming no troubles when is time to get the deposit back.

Lastly, does BMW have a program similar to Honda and Acura. Were they have a 1,500 insurance type deposit when you return the car. Meaning the person does not pay for any cost over normal wear and tear utill is over 1,500. So its kind of a deposit paid by the company?

Something else to think about and look into.

Blue- I work for the Office oif Consumer Affairs with an Att. Gen in a state and I see this EVERYDAY. Corp finding ways/tangents and discvlkaimers to con peoplo out of THEIR money. caution!

kdshapiro · June 2003

I have never failed to get my security deposit back from any car company. I have been charged excess wear and tear, but that was deducted from my security deposit, as it should have been. In any case the excess wear and tear will always apply. Either it comes from the deposit or you pay later.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

again I am just being a skeptic. If they have a large deposit (MSD) it is tempting for them to FIND a way to charge wear and tear or something to keep a portion of that money they ALREADY have and do not need to collect!

kdshapiro · June 2003

That kind of stuff gets car companies into trouble. Remember the flap over Honda, I think it was. There was a class action suit against them, as they were charging excessive exces wear and tear fees.

blueguydotcom · June 2003

again I am just being a skeptic. If they have a large deposit (MSD) it is tempting for them to FIND a way to charge wear and tear or something to keep a portion of that money they ALREADY have and do not need to collect!

Also you're talking about the return as if the dealership will know BMWFS has MSDs on my car. They'll know it's a lease return. I'd be very surprised and extremely fast to contact my lawyer if i got a hint of anything being abnormal.

Also, there is a chance (if the car is solid) that'll i'll keep it. In which case they MUST give me my MSDs (or use them toward the residual if I choose). Heck even if the car's stolen or destroyed I get all of my MSDs back. I didn't walk into this blind.

I will admit I was blinded by my desire for the car and I jumped on it before finding a home for my Jetta. 1 month later i still have a 2001 Jetta.

Eventually someone will buy it. right?

majariwr · June 2003

I am a relatively new BMW 325XI driver and am getting ready to rotate my tires for the first time. I do not have the sport package, and have a full size spare with the same wheel as the other 4 wheels. When I purchased my car, the salesperson indicated that this was an advantage since I will be able to rotate the tires using all 5 wheels instead of just 4. Unfortunately, the manual does not describe the rotation pattern. So when I called the dealer, a service representative said that I should only rotate the 4 tires that are on the car and not use the spare. Does anyone know what the BMW-recommended rotation pattern for this car is? Does it use only the 4 tires that are on the car, or can one rotate on the spare? Thanks.

nyccarguy · June 2003

That BMW advises AGAINST rotating tires.

itsmeehkyle · June 2003

Hi there folks i hope you guys can help me on this I am a first time Bmw buyer only 19y/o didn't study mechanic in hs (medical student) dont know anything about cars but to drive. I am looking at a 00 topaz blue 328ci i didn't see much on the message board about this model.. so can you guys find out the price for it now they are offering 23,500 the car has only23k miles on it .. it has moon roof leather single cd player and manual transmission and yea after the warranty goes out wat is the average service charge for the vehicle maintence such as oil change and etc.thanks guys hope to hear response soon.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

"That kind of stuff gets car companies into trouble. Remember the flap over Honda, I think it was. There was a class action suit against them, as they were charging excessive exces wear and tear fees."

Exactly my point Kd shapiro...and dealerships ARE in trouble all the time for finding creative ways to overcharge customers. Such as overcharging DMV cost of License and registration. Another class action suit. This is only one example of many. Class action suits such as rolling back odometers, selling used cars as brand new, changing/forging contracts and MORE!!!

"Also you're talking about the return as if the dealership will know BMWFS has MSDs on my car. They'll know it's a lease return. I'd be very surprised and extremely fast to contact my lawyer if i got a hint of anything being abnormal"

Yes Blue there is a connection b/w the way dealerships and the leasing company (if connected to manufacturer- i.e. BMW Financing) work. The dealership does know at the time of return what your agreement is with BMWFS and it is in their interest to make as much money as posible. They make money coming in and going out...anywere they can.

I am sure you, Blue, did check and I respect that but you will not be the first person with a complaint against a comp. like BMW. About getting a lawyer to deal with something this size...good luck. The cost of a lawyer may exceed the MSD depoit very quick...big risk if you cant prove anything and end up with double the problem.

We can leave it at that b/c I know is just me being a skeptic because I see it a lot were I work.

ONE RECOMMENDATION...CALL YOUR STATE OFFICE OF CONSUMER PROTECTION (CONSUMER AFFAIRS)AND ASK HOW MANY COMPLAINTS, IF ANY, ARE THERE AGAINST THE DEALERSHIP YOU DID OR ARE ABOUT TO DO BUSINESS WITH. THIS IS PUBLIC INFORMATION. YOU MAY BE SHOCKED MY FRIEND!

kdshapiro · June 2003

Essentially the ruling against Honda, says it's illegal to overcharge. You have avenues if the law is broken.

The dealership does not refund the deposit. The deposit checks are issued from the auto manufacturer themselves. This is an issue endemic to leasing. I have found that manufacturers tend to be lenient in order not to get customers angry. The last thing car companies need is bad press about their customer relationships. So while it's good to understand your rights as a consumer, the small risk relating to bad business practices with leasing, is far outweighed by the benefits of those who chose to lease. It's the old story about 1000 attaboys. I have never had a bad experience leasing, as the dealers only act as agents to collect the cars and note the damage. Most car companies tend to be fair. And if I were blueguy, I would worry more about the purchase side of the transaction than the termination side. Or in blueguy's case, I would worry more about rain in San Diego than getting his money back.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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