BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

pbrshp · September 2003

I have a 2001 325XI and my Goodyear Eagle RS-A's (205/50/17)are about worn out after 32K. Does any one have a recommendation for replacement tires? I called my local BMW parts department and they can order me another set of Goodyears, Continental ContiTouringContacts, or Michelin Pilots. The Goodyears and the Continental's are about $150 a tire and the Michelins are >$200.
I live where it snows and do not want to mount snow tires in the winter. Thanks for you Suggestions.

pbrshp · September 2003

I have a 2001 325XI and my Goodyear Eagle RS-A's (205/50/17)are about worn out after 32K. Does any one have a recommendation for replacement tires? I called my local BMW parts department and they can order me another set of Goodyears, Continental ContiTouringContacts, or Michelin Pilots. The Goodyears and the Continental's are about $150 a tire and the Michelins are >$200.
I live where it snows and do not want to mount snow tires in the winter. Thanks for you Suggestions.

jim1395 · September 2003

you should check out the tirerack.com. you can't beat the prices or selection. i have ordered several sets of tires from them in the past few years and have been very happy. the only thing is that you'll have to have someone put them on for you. perhaps you bmw dealer or local reputable tireshop

tcn2k · September 2003

I just purchase some continental touring contacts on tirerack website for only 74 bucks a piece. It is being shipped directly to the preferred installation sites on their website. The cost with balance is 15 bucks per tire. It all came to be much cheaper. I called the installation place and they said they use plastic german wheel installation machine so that your rims won't get scratch. I am bringing it in tomorrow; we will see how they do. But they quoted me more for the same wheels, and they did recommend me using tirerack since they work with that site fairly often.

riez · September 2003

This year I bought a set of ContiTouringContacts for my wife's 323ia. Bought 'em thru my local BMW dealer. He charged me only $75 each (of course there are additional taxes, disposal fees, etc.). I also bought a set for another car thru a local tire dealer. He only charged me $64 each (plus taxes and fees). But these are low performance tires. If you want a more aggressive AS tire, you might look at the more expensive ContiExtremeContact.

If it snows, you really should consider snow tires. They are recommended even for AWD and 4WD vehicles.

kennynmd · September 2003

Are all the exterior parts such as sidemarker lights, taillights, and corner lights the same for all E46 models?

honda_autobahn · September 2003

What is the deal with BMW Assist in the Premium Package? Seems like it would be worthless without the NAV system.

nobee · September 2003

I don't understand this as well...Someone on another board thinks it'll be kind of like On-Star. I on the otherhand hope it'll come with the NAV type of a display minus the Nav capabilities w/ a direct voice link to BMW reps...Hopefully, we'll find out this week.

-nobee

bmw323is · September 2003

The E46 coupes and sedans do not share many exterior parts, but the 325's and the 330's do.

chile96 · September 2003

Are you sure? I am pretty sure that although the cars appear very similar, actually few, if any, of the exterior body parts will fit both models.

rpadilla · September 2003

Hello all.....I have a 2001 330i (PremP,SP,STEP,TitSil/Blk), and I am currently at 35,200 miles on the odometer. The warranty will expire in another 800 miles, and I was wondering if there is anything I should be worrying about and having checked out BEFORE the warranty expires. I have heard rumours that BMWs require a tremendous amount of service as they age, but, I want to keep my car for 10 years if I can. Any thoughts?

tcn2k · September 2003

Has your brakes been changed? My dealer said it will cost 800 bucks for all 4 wheels. But they do offer extended maintence warranty up to 50k. So if my brake does not go out by 36k, i am purchasing it. It cost 400.00 bucks for the extended warranty, well worth it in my situation.

topspin628 · September 2003

I have always wanted a convertable but have never taken the plunge. When my lease is up within the next year I will most likely "re-up" for another 3 series, I like it that much.
Can anyone give me their opinion as to the trade-offs of rag top to sedan and coupe. Also, living in the North East how will it be to drive a convertable in the winter (I know, it would be cold with the top down!)

Thanks in advance for any data, opinions.

div2 · September 2003

As you've discovered, there are a lot of clueless idiots who pass on third-hand misinformation about BMW reliability and service costs. Most of these morons haven't even sat in a BMW. In actuality, the only BMWs that tend to bruise your wallet as they age are the 7ers, 8ers, and neglected M cars. Aside from scheduled service, my 82K mile 1995 3er has only needed replacement of the front brake pads and the serpentine belts. It still has the original battery. We took it on vacation this summer, driving it for hours on end at 85 mph(4250 rpm)in 95+ degree temperatures. In 1500 miles it used less than 1/4 qt. of Mobil 1 15W-50 and averaged 31 mpg. I drove a 1987 535is to 140000+ miles and all it required was a water pump, fan clutch, clutch slave hose, and rear shocks. I sold it in 1992 and it's now on it's fourth owner; at 300000 miles it finally needed a head gasket.

someday · September 2003

I have decided on a 2004 325 Cc (considered the 330 Ci heavily but felt the 325 was enough power for me although after test driving the 330 my resolve was shaken a little.)

These are the options I am considering:

leather (although wavering due to the past discussions on the 'ette. Would have to get leather if I got the gray interior)

Titanium Silver
automatic
moonroof
sports package
xenon

The invoice price for these options is 33,800.
Has anyone had any experience on how much above invoice for the 2004 models are going for? Also is there any other options that are a must have?

Also the sports package comes with the 17X8 alloy wheels with performance tires. I would prefer the 16X7 five spoke allow wheels with all season tires (last longer). Is this a difficult switch? and would I lose out by making this switch?

I live in the SF bay area and any recommendations for the best dealerships would also be appreciated.

Sorry for rambling but ready to buy my dream car and worried about making any mistakes.

Thanks for any feed back.

blueguydotcom · September 2003

I own a 3 series (which needs servicing already for a broken seat and a cruddy transmission) and I have many friends and family who are current and past owners. All the past owners parted ways with their bimmers for the same reason: super high cost of repairs. Current owners outside of warranty have been hit with $4k bills for a tranny (540ia), $250 for a battery at the dealer (M3), etc. They swear by their cars but also swear at them when things break. CR and others confirm it too - BMWs are not reliable vis-a-vis japanese luxury cars like Infiniti and Lexus and anybody who is honest will atest to the general high cost of post-warranty ownership. Yes we all can point to anecdotes but in the end the data speaks more loudly than the guy with a 3 series that's been driven 700,050 miles with the same oil, blah, blah, blah.

tcn2k · September 2003

Well, got my new tires put on. Along with that, two rims of mine are now scratched really badly. This is a second time Big-O mess up, i do not recommend them as a install dealer. Although tireracks.com works like a charm. Anyone know any tire place that can fix scratched rims?

brentcho · September 2003

This should be a recall...The service advisor agreed w/ me...The interior door trim has drooped off for the second time since buying the car in 1999. Both sides came off in the summer of 2001. The dealor replaced them (mileage: 23,000ish). The rubbery felt finsihed trim cames off of the door trim again 2 weeks ago(dealer quote, parts & labor: $700ish). They cannot replace just the part that comes off but the whole door trim. Current mileage: 57,000ish. I took the car in......The same dealer that replaced them said that they could not replace them again under warrenty........called them back and talked to the same service advisor. He promised to call me back.......it's been 3 business days.......no call.......I would appriciate any advise on this matter..................thanks.......

igorvodov · September 2003

Does anybody know whether 2.9% financing incentive expired on Sept. 2, 2003 or are the dealers still offering that through BMWFS?

JingleJill · September 2003

I have a 2002 325ci with less than 10k miles that has had the door trim replaced 3 times. Two times for the passenger door and once for the drivers. I had the second door trim replaced after 6 weeks of having it replaced the first time. The service advisor admits it is a problem, especially in the south Texas heat. It is very frustrating and an inconvenience. I had a 2001 330i and never had the problem.

rpadilla · September 2003

tcn2k -- I had an incident of RF wheel vs square curb, and I blew out the RF tire and dented my rim (boohoo). However, I bought my tires at Discount Tires WITH the replacement insurance, AND, they repaired the rim (dent fixed and rim refinished) for $150. It took 5 days for the rim to be worked on, but, it was well worth it, and the shop they farmed the work out to did a great job. Considering the SP rims cost somewhere in the ballpark of $500 apiece, you might want to look into whether there is a Discount Tire in your area. FWIW, since they were able to get their hands on the same tires as Tire Rack, I went with them, and didn't have to find a place to mount and balance each wheel when I bought my tires. AND, they will swap snows for summers for a small fee.

kdshapiro · September 2003

I'll reiterate my anecdotal evidence as everybody's experience with cars is different. Aside from wanting a BMW for a long time and finally acting on my wants, my experience with friends and associates who have them have been - extremely positive. My car has been more reliable than the whole of my friends who have reliable Japanese vehicles. Trannies being replaced, cars being bought back under the Lemon Law, cars taken to the dealer time and time again for fix a problem. In fact that has also been my experience with the last three vehicles I've owned. The vehicle that lasted the longest also rusted completely through.

So getting a car that thus far does not like going to any dealer or mechanic to get itself fixed is a real treat for me. How it will stand up, only time will tell.

wjc673 · September 2003

Hi -
This board is tremendous - a fountain of information! I saw one of those great (and addictive) infomercials for the "AutoLock". This device is like "the Club" but is secured under the break pad. The security here focuses on the fact it makes it impossible to depress the brake (and thus impossible to put the car in drive). Does anyone have any experience with the "AutoLock" for their 3-series? I live in New York and car theft is always a factor with a new car. This would be for a 2003 325i with automatic transmission.

blueguydotcom · September 2003

That's simply amazing. The current and former BMW owners I know personally tell me he/she loves the car. Mention problems or repairs and they all begin to rattle off scary amounts of issues and astronomical repair bills.

I dig my 330i. Love is a bit extreme but I may be in love with it. Yet in 3 months (excluding issues that weren't the car's fault like the rear-ending, blown tire, attempted theft), I've already got a nice list of issues for my first service appointment.

1. loose, creaking driver's seat.
2. binding, unruly, mercurial tranny.
3. hesitating engine - I dismissed this throughout july and august as a random once a week thing but now it's happening at least once every other drive.

3 months - 3 problems. Do I complain about it? Nah. I love the car, warts and all. Sure my seat may creak every time I shift and the tranny may lock me out of a gear or the engine may sputter a bit every now and then but the other 80-90% of the time the car's sublime. The only car I enjoyed driving more than my own is the 740i. Does it make me think I should buy my ZHP when my lease is up? Uh, heck no.

riez · September 2003

blueguydotcom & kdshapiro... With large production runs and lots of variables, about all we can really use is average data. All of the sources have their limitations and flaws but they are better than nothing. Consumer Reports, JD Powers, etc. have extolled the average reliability of Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura for well over a decade. Consistently year in and year out. Pretty much each model.

The key is for BMW to pay more attention to design and manufacturing. Build it right the first time. Heck, there are tons of articles in Roundel (BMW CCA) and Bimmer magazines that discuss how BMWs are NOT as reliable as these three marques. Just read the current issue of Roundel. Nice article (p. 29) that looks at JD Power 3-year reliability data (The 2003 Vehicle Dependability Index).that favors Lexus, Infiniti and Acura (ranked 1, 2, & 5). BMW comes in 13th. Better than average but not by much. BMW looks a bit better because MB and Audi both have their own issues--they are next to each other buried deep in the bottom third.

kdshapiro · September 2003

I agree that's what is written, but I haven't seen it. I may have a solid car. When I brought my car in for service, the SA slammed the drivers door and said to me, "Hear that, your car is as solid as they come!!!

blueguy - My car is not *100%* problem free. The AM radio reception is the pits and can't seem to be fixed, and from driving through roads that would give a moon buggy a run for it's money, my front seat creaks/squeaks slightly. Also, the driver's window squeals occasionally while opening or closing and I hear an occasional squeak from the engine that is either the fan belt or the water pump. So in a year and a half plus of ownership I can't complain. Oh and today I found out how good the ABS is when coming to a panic stop from about 50mph.

riez · September 2003

kdshapiro... Read Bill Howard's "End Piece" column in the September 2003 issue of Roundel (BMW CCA), p. 144. Second half of it discusses a talk JD Power III made in NYC early this summer at the International Motor Press Association. Small excerpt:

"the German automakers are the last to get it, "
'it' being the notion that the results of third-party quality surveys may be embarrasing short-term and immensely helpful long-term ... [According to Power] 'Re IQS [Initial Quality Survey that Lexus typically wins], the think there has been denial. The biggest denial has been with the Germans. I think the denial can be summed up as 'We design cars the best way we know and we know what is best. The consumer can't tell us what we need. They don't understand things.'"

Howard ends his column by pointing out that the fact Lexus beats Porsche by 2 points in one year's survey is outside the margin of erro (thus they are statistically equal), "but when Lexus comes out on top every year for a decade running, maybe Power is on target."

Howard is absolutely right. BMW needs to pay attention!

Remember the latest results from MB (318) and Audi (318) are horrible. BMW (262) is just above the average (273). Only Porsche (193) shines. They came in 4th. Lexus at 163!!! Toyota's total corporate rank is a 196, as Toyota gets a 201.

Consumer Reports data also roughly in line with these results. Bet BMW wishes CR would recommend the 3 Series again?

kennynmd · September 2003

I just bought an 03 325Ci. I got the similar options as you.I also wanted the sports package but couldn't find a new one with that. Anyways, I'm not 100% sure but the only difference with the sports package is the bigger tires and wheels, clear corner and sidemarker light and thigh support seats. Since you want the stock wheels, don't get the sports pack. and just buy the clear corner and sidemarker lights. That's what I did with mine. As far as price, I'm not sure. But my salesman told me about a grand under MSRP.

kdshapiro · September 2003

I'll bet a lot of people don't respond to these surveys. I've never sent in any JD Powers survey nor have I participated in the CR surveys. I'll bet there are a lot of people like myself. I didn't participate a few years ago, when my service advisor got to know me very well, nor do I participate in BMW surveys. You may say it's about statistics, but again, try telling that to my friends who have had Hondas bought back under the lemon laws or tranny failures. I never consult reliability surveys when when getting a car because when it boils down to me, they mean nothing.

buffagm · September 2003

Hello,
I have 8k on my 2003 330i, I've changed the oil myself at 5k miles, about 10k earlier than what the OBC was recommending, just to be on the safe side. My questions are, its almost going to be a year since I had the car, when do I take it in for service? Is there anything scheduled within the first year? What reasons should I state when making a call to the dealer? Sorry if any of these could easily be answerd by reading the manual, but I've read mine and didnt get anywhere. Thanks-

kdshapiro · September 2003

buffagm - you don't need to change the oil unless it makes you feel better. The car is to be taken in to the regular service when the service indicator says so. When you first turn the car on it displays the number of miles left. Follow that. I took my car in at 15,000+ miles. It feels strange not to change the oil every 3000 miles, but that is what it is. If it's been a year since you've had the car and the service indicator doesn't indicate it's time, you can make an appointment anyway. BMW will service the vehicle once a year per the maintenance schedule.

riez · September 2003

kdshapiro... If you throw out the survey data, why would you assume the non-scientific anecdotal evidence has any validity? By definition, it is inherently unusable for the purpose at hand.

I'm just pointing out that impeccably "pro-BMW" sources like Roundel (BMW CCA) have no problem admitting the obvious: AVERAGE reliability for Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura has been consistently and signficantly higher than BMW, MB, or Audi. And that these three European marques need to make better reliability a priority. These results come from multiple sources (CR, JD Power, Intellichoice, etc.) and have been consistent for years.

If Roundel fanatics have no problem discussing the issue honestly and openly, not sure why you attack the surveys.

blueguydotcom · September 2003

The word zealot pops to mind. KD loves his bimmer to the point that he will not accept the blue and white prop might need to look more closely at anyissues.

BTW, my service light says 8000 miles. I only have 5800 on my odometer. I won't get anywhere near 15k. LOL

kyfdx · September 2003

If looking for a silver gray 330i ZHP coming off lease about July of '06, avoid the one in California. LOL!!

kyfdx

blueguydotcom · September 2003

LOL. I'd never want to own one of my used cars. They may look good and have all the service records but I drive'em hard. Drive it like I stole it...

kdshapiro · September 2003

blueguy, riez - Do both of you play the odds at Las Vegas? That's what you do when you buy a car, never know, from any manufacturer whether you are going to get a lemon or not. Reading all the tea leaves in the world and JD Powers and CR surveys won't tell you if you are getting stuck with a lemon. These surveys are useless to me as a guarantee as to the future reliability of my new vehicle. While they may be good at the 50,000 foot level, when it pertains to my new car, as opposed to a new car, they are worthless. Might as well play the odds in Vegas. My previous Japanese cars obviously did not read CR or JD Powers surveys as my ownership consisted of many trips to the dealer. When my cars start reading the surveys, so will I.

It has nothing to do with being a zealot.

kyfdx · September 2003

I know if I keep hitting 18 in blackjack, I may not lose, but chances are not good. Just like keeping a VW, Audi, Kia out of warranty.

kyfdx

kdshapiro · September 2003

Know people who have them and have been very happy with the ownership experience.

kyfdx · September 2003

the only people you know that are unhappy with their cars drive Hondas and Toyotas?

regards,
kyfdx

buffagm · September 2003

kdshapiro -
thanks for the reply, yes I changed the oil early mainly for peace of mind. Something new owner should know however: You can't make a service appointment before the car is 1yr old or has 15k miles. Since I bought my car in Nov, I will have to wait till then, unless there is something wrong with my car.

erickpl · September 2003

I can see both sides of this issue. While each individual car has a 50/50 chance of being good/bad, you can look at the history of the manufacturer and the model to get a good idea of how it may perform.

If you pick a Ford Pinto, history says you will have a good chance of blowing up. But if you pick Brand X car that has won several quality trophies, you probably have a better than 50/50 chance of getting a good, reliable car. It is like going to the blackjack table and getting that 19, but knowing the dealer has 16 showing and he has to hit. Yeah, you could still get burned, but the odds are working in your favor.

When people come on here asking us about reliability of our cars, we are helping them build a 'history' of the models we have. Would I take the word of 1 or 2 people on here about BMW quality? NO, but I WOULD factor it in when I do the research. Unfortunately, we all haven't 100% positive experiences with our cars, regardless of brand. I loved my Honda Civic Si, but I hated the small size of the gas tank. Even the 'best' cars have flaws that somebody has problems with.

We could have this debate till the cows came home, but in the end, both sides are right - just from different points of view. Can we just agree to disagree?

-Paul

kyfdx · September 2003

Can't we all just get along?? LOL

riez · September 2003

kdshapiro... You wrote, "Do both of you play the odds?", "Reading all the tea leaves in the world and JD Powers and CR surveys won't tell you if you are getting stuck with a lemon", and "These surveys are useless to me as a guarantee as to the future reliability of my new vehicle."

1. We are talking about AVERAGES and long-term trends. Consistency over time and across huge production runs of different models.
2. There are no guarantees on anything.
3. There is a huge difference between a specific car that is a lemon (which, in a legal setting, has a different and specific legal definition in each state) and whether one marque or model has better AVERAGE reliability.
4. Even the "best" marque or model can have a "lemon". One specific "lemon" is not directly correlated to the long-term AVERAGE.
5. Scientific surveys, using accepted methodologies which are explained, are NOT remotely similar to tea leaf reading.
6. Smart gamblers look for games that have better odds. Different games have different odds. Ignorant gamblers don't stay in the business long.
7. BMW is a business entity, not a gamer. It wants to make money. It assesses and manages risks. It has a long-term perspective. It needs to keep customers happy. A smart business works to improve critical factor like long-term average vehicle reliability, esp. when the results are public for all the world to see. [Do you think BMW would be smiling if its results were trending like MB and Audi are now? MB and Audi aren't happy.]

kdshapiro · September 2003

riez - you are supporting my point. There are no guarantees about the individual experience, which is why I do not use either JD Powers or CR to influence my buying decisions. First hand anecdotal evidence more commonly known as word-of-mouth is more valuable to me than a high level survey.

riez · September 2003

kdshapriro... I am refuting your point. You are engaged in both a statistical and logical fallacy. Your sample size is so small that it is meaningless. Thus GIGO. And you are assuming that what holds true for the select few has to hold true for the many. That is an incorrect assumption, one that is NOT supported by the long-term AVERAGE data.

If your next two friends or neighbors who buy new cars buy BMW 3 Series and both are "lemons", will you then refute your own argument and reject all BMWs?

imadrone · September 2003

Only after extensive research, anecdotal evidence (thanks to Edmunds and this board), and personal experience with our current 21 year old BMW, did we decide to purchase a 2004 325iT. COULD end up being a lemon, but the statistical probability is not great. I will, however, change the oil at 5k, 10k, 15k, and every 7500 miles thereafter. Cheap peace of mind, and we may wish to keep this Bimmer for 20+ years as well.

richard

seaf · September 2003

I agree with your points, it's a lost cause. Some people have trouble relating abstract data to real world experiences. Others know it and are willing to accept the risks. We all have different risk tolerances in dealing with our own lives.

kdshapiro · September 2003

riez - this is not a statistical or logical fallacy. It is an experience of life point of view. You can argue statistics and scientific all day-long and so on and so forth. These surveys will not guarantee I will get reliable vehicle. That is why I don't use them.

seaf - It's amusing that you believe it's a lost cause when there is a difference of opinion. I feel the same way. BTW - no problem relating to abstract data. It's the lack of consideration of common sense I'm puzzled about.

riez · September 2003

kdshapiro... My late uncle smoked all his life and lived to be over 90. Another late uncle smoked all his life and lived to be only 65. Guess what the statistics say regarding tobacco use and longevity? Do you smoke? I quit years ago. I believe the statistics. [But that is just me. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Just don't blame anyone if you don't live long and prosper (with apologies to Mr. Spock).

]

Remember, today I drive both a Lexus (IS300a) and a BMW (540i6). Am praying both are highly reliable.

In 34,000 miles of driving, I had some problems with the former '00 323ia. Issues with sliding sunroof cover, headbeam light switch, seat wear, heated seat. In 26,000 miles of driving my '98 540i6 I've also had a few minor issues (e.g., LCD needed to be replaced, faulty airbag warning sensor, broken rear cupholders, etc.). None were catastrophic in either car.

But in 78,000 miles of driving I didn't have a single, solitary problem with either of my two former Infiniti. I went from 2 times Infiniti to 2 times BMW to a Lexus. All were/are great cars. I expect the Lexus' reliability to be very good. Will I automatically buy another Lexus? No. Another BMW? No. Infiniti? No. But I might buy any one of them or something completely different (with apologies to Monty Python). Only time will tell.

seaf · September 2003

are not meant to guarantee results. They are used as tools for making informed decisions. If you consider not using such information as common sense, then that's your right.

I think riez's point of view is common sense. But then again, our backgrounds and life experiences determine what we consider common sense.

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

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