BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

brave1heart · May 2001

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you can't tell a difference between the 328 and the Altezza, that's great for you - you've saved yourself some money and should finally loosen up a bit and feel happier - it's weekend time anyhow. If even after reading all these posts and esp. after driving a 328 you are not convinced, then you know what's good for you and you have nothing to prove to yourself or us. Enjoy your weekend.

pat · May 2001

Folks, some posts not in adherence with the Town Hall Terms of Use have been removed.

I have followed your discussion about "censorship" and the value of opposing opinions, and I think some very valid points have been made.

However, posts must comply with all aspects of the TOU to which you all agreed when you joined Town Hall. The posts I have removed violated the requirement that you "agree to disagree in a civil manner should (you) take issue with the statements of another Town Hall participant..."

And I should also mention that profanity is expressly prohibited - this includes vaguely disguised profane words (i.e., "masked" profanity) - and is also a reason a post will need to be removed.

As long as everyone remains respectful and otherwise within the user agreement, there will be no need for your hosts to intervene.

Thanks.

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Host
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ds2k1 · May 2001

Welcome to the BMW board, my friend. May the civility ensue. And by the way, I agree that BMWs are expensive for their class. I just happen to think they're also worth it and was willing to pay the premium to drive it. I also happen to be one of the few who thinks the IS300 is a pretty nice looking car, although I don't care much for the interior. I think you have a fine ride, I'm sure it handles quite nicely, it sure is plenty fast, and you'll no doubt derive as much pleasure from it as we bimmer owners will derive from ours. You are, however, on a BMW board - you don't actually expect us to say, "You know what, you're right. I got jipped and I need to go out and get me an IS300", do you? I'm sure you don't. But again, I welcome you spending as much time enlightening us, if you think it's worth your time. Perhaps you should be likened to a missionary out doing the Lord's work, no?

alpine325i · May 2001

V-tech, I just read your last post. You sound like a nice guy now that you've calmed down. I apologize if I was way harsh with you earlier. Don't start none, won't be none. Have a good weekend

)

ds2k1 · May 2001

Anyone else feel like one?

Have a great weekend everyone.

v_tech · May 2001

this civility is working for me. i have no doubt learned a lot here and i thank you all for the free education. i will no doubt drive my friends new 330i because i am excited for him. the price is wrong for me but so what?? the problem with my using him as an example is that hawaii has such inflated car prices to start with because we are on a rock i presume. i don't know the reasons for sure but his car will definitely be 40K after everything. i admit it is a fine car worth the price to many of you. my points are decent but worthless in a sense i do realize that. again, best wishes to all of you and your bimmers. they are indeed fine machines worthy of many accolades. the 328i has great torque, great responsiveness, great acceleration, great ride, you name it there is no doubt. i do like the looks of the new bmw's too i just want the 225 horses for 34 to 35K after tax. but the IS will do for now.

but for sure this is it for me no more troll action. don't miss me too much.

oh wait, if any of you haven't been to hawaii you should write to wailea because i tell you maui has one of the best resorts in the islands and it is called the Grand Wailea. you can trust me on this one. you will not be disappointed. so ask wailea about the merits of maui (i think he or she is from there).

aloha and mahalo

vvti

denright · May 2001

Thanks, Mike. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

V-Tech - I anticipate that my 330xi will come to about $41K including tax and tags. Again, this is based on a purchase price of $38,475. I have calculated that if I put down $15K including my trade in, I will have payments of under $500 per month. Not bad at all.

Have a great weekend everyone.

postoak · May 2001

First, let me state that I have been flying under false colors (a bit) here because:

1) I am still in the product resolution stage of buying a car -- I haven't yet decided on a Bimmer, although it is the leading contender.

2) If I buy a Bimmer, I will certainly do the Euro Delivery as I have already made plans to spend 3 weeks in Germany, but it will be NEXT summer, not this one. I had planned on renting a car for most of the 3 weeks so THAT expense could be credibly subtracted from the price of the BMW, giving it a price advantage over the other vehicles I've been considering.

Platypus - Wow!!! I definitely want the name of your salesman!! You've just told me I can get a 330i for about what I had planned on spending for a 325i!! (Now I just have to decide whether to stay with the 325 at lesser price or go with the 330. How did you get these European invoice prices?)

Braveheart1 - you and I are in agreement about bimmer.org, although I object to the old technology (I mean, what's with anybody NOT running a forum with UBB/INFOPOP these days) about as much as the mostly useless content. That said, I guess I am going to have to start hanging out there more since Platypus got so well educated over there.

gurumike · May 2001

Just an example of how very affordable a 330i can be (and yes, I'm back on a base model car with CD player), a two year lease (yes, two not five!!) with 10k miles. $2000 total down payment (I'm sure it work work in any state) $500. I wonder what Altezza owners pay? A guy at work (in the detail dept - really !!) just swapped his 99 Accord for a 2001 Altezza and when I told him the 330i was less (he never bothered to ask, thinking it would be too high!) he was GUTTED !!!
Free service the whole time you got it and in two years, choose a new color/spec and do it again!!

gurumike · May 2001

ds2k1 · May 2001

3 years/36K miles. Love those high residual values!!

veekay1 · May 2001

jon shafer:
u dont have any black sapphire metallic pics on your board!!

to everyone: has anyone seen a blk sapphire metallic in person? anybody have any pics other than those on bmw website?
thanks in advance

killerk · May 2001

Front brakes & rotors replaced @ 31K.
Rear brakes & rotors replaced @ 38K.

So no one here had gotten their brakes done on their bimmers, yet? Anyway, the brake warning lights should come up if the pads wear down too thin, right? Or I should not wait that long? Thankx.

jon_shafer · May 2001

We have a Sapphire Black Metallic 330i (step, sport, prem.,xenon, CD) in our basement that hasn't been detailed yet... Perhaps we can get

gurumike

to help me crack the whip downstairs so that I can photgraph it!

:-)))

platypus · May 2001

For the absolute best deal on European Delivery, contact Joern Esser at Passport BMW (MD). 301-702-6407. Tell him that "Mike from Texas" referred you. I expect he will offer the same deal on a 325i or 330i. Can't say whether or not it applies to coupes, and I know for a fact that it does not apply to convertibles.

I see that you are in Houston. Unless you want to go to Maryland to pick up the car, Joern will have to arrange a courtesy delivery for you at a local dealer. Most dealers will charge between $250 and $500 for this. I'm paying $250 for a courtesy delivery in Temple.

If you're waiting to pick up the car next summer, then it is quite conceivable that the economic conditions will be different. The discount may not be as high, but whatever the current market is at that time, Joern will offer you competitive pricing.

Euro invoice pricing can be found at www.eurobuyers.com. Euro invoice on the 325i is $22,590. There is no separate Euro invoice on the options, just standard US invoice and US MSRP.

I agree with you on the format of bimmer.org. I wish they would switch to UBB - exciting posts would get so much more visibility. With the current format, after two days, your post is essentially dead.

veekay1 · May 2001

JON:
URE A BLAST!
i didn't know Gurumike was incharge of detailing!! lol
well, how does it look without the detailing?
i chose that color without even seeing it in "flesh and blood"....hence a little nervous!
veekay1(week22 325xi/step/cwp/pp/xenon)

P.S. And by the way, I am a fan of urs already; u are doing yeoman's svc. over at the bimmer.org site!

ross66 · May 2001

Getting ready to order a 01 330i w/ sport pack, roof, leather but struggling with color selection. Thinking about topaz blue with gray leather. Any thoughts or other suggestions? Thanks!

brave1heart · May 2001

Damn, I missed the group hug - I knew I should have stuck around tonight. Been waiting for this special moment for too long and it slipped right under my fingers (sniff-sniff). Can we have this as a weekly event every Friday night, ppppplease? A big cyber-hug with lots of beer ;o)

postoak - platypus is a very smart guy and he would have learned a lot under any circumstances, regardless of medium and type of board. As far as technology, yep, you have a very good point that this board's technology is old - bottom line is, it doesn't have a search engine and you can't set up topics easily so you could skip right to the song you like. But you know what - it's the people and the business model that matter, not the technology that much. Trust me on this one - I am in technology. I don't use the latest technologies at work but they can charge $200/hr for my time. A web master who is about 3 years ahead of me technology-wise can charge maybe $80 tops. You know why? It's the ability to work with a team and inspire them and get the best out of everyone that matters. That whole shared knowledge/collective wisdom type thing, remember? Once you get the critical mass (volume of people and posts), you can afford to go with the latest technology. If you just have the technology with poor people resources, it won't take you anywhere.

Anyhow, it would be smart to keep up with both boards if you had the time. For me personally, I am contributing a lot here because I really enjoy it and I have the benefit of learning new things. I just don't get either of these two on the bimmer.org board. I do like it here and as long as it's entertaining and I'm learning, I'm sticking around. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Is it golf time yet?

postoak · May 2001

Now it's just up to me to do my homework. I'm still not 100% sold on BMW because

1) The one dealer contact I've had was a negative experience. What a snooty, disinterested salesman! I don't put up with that. Treat me like that and I'll go right back to the same dealership and ask for a different salesman and tell the salesmanager why. I was almost looking forward to doing that :~) but now it's a moot point.

2) The shift on the BMW is strange! I admit I'm not terifically coordinated (23 handicap), but I stalled out the engine on my test drive 5 times! And I've driven a stick for the last 7 years! What's up with that?!

3) The interior of this car is pretty plain.

OTOH, I thought the back seat area was quite spacious. (Of course, I drive a Miata now :~))

But, I'm about 90% sure I'll go with BMW. In case anyone is curious, other vehicles that I'm considering are: MB 240C, Jetta, Passat, Audi A4, Maxima.

brave1heart · May 2001

"With the current format, after two days, your post is essentially dead." You are totally right - it may even be shorter than that. But tell me, do you actually go and do searches on bimmer.org? I'd just do a 'Find' on key words from the last 2 days' posts and I never go to the archives. I betcha the vast majority of people never go to the archives either. If you did have to, though, yes, bimmer.org does have a better search engine. But the key thing is, how often do you do it? Not often enough, right? It's easier to start a new discussion and get the most recent info anyhow. And something like 90% of the posters seem to be college kids because that's the cool thing for them to do - go with the best technology. It's a tradeoff, and that's the least to say. I know you have you roots there and maybe you can explain better. Am I missing something here?

platypus · May 2001

ross66: Topaz is an awesome color. Second IMO only to Titanium. Topaz lends to more "fun," while titanium is more "serious." I don't like the lighter colored interiors (grey/tan) because of the contrast with the black dash/steering wheel.

postoak: Coming from a Miata, it's no surprise you're having a hard time with the E46 stick. The Miata's throws are about the shortest in the business, while the E46 throws are quite long in comparison. And yes, the clutch is tricky. I think everyone on this board agrees.

Let me guess - you went to a Houston dealer. Texas dealers in general are just plain arrogant. The only ones I found to be somewhat pleasant were Garlyn Shelton in Temple and Fred Brown in Bryan. I even tried a couple of Houston dealers. At one of them, the internet manager thought he was doing me a favor by offering me a $500 off MSRP "internet special." Hah!

Given the other cars you're looking at, the 325 fits in more closely than the 330. One of my uncles just picked up a new C240 and I got to take it for an extensive test drive. Nice car. Feels more solid and heavier than the E46. Interior felt rich and more luxurious. Back seat room felt tighter though. Acceleration was somewhat disappointing as the car was an AT. Handling was good - better than other MBZs I had driven, but still not up to par with BMW. It's just suited for a slightly different buyer - one who wants a fine German marque, and values luxury and ride comfort just a little more than sportiness and handling.

Also test drove an S4 last year. Was amazed by the power of the twin turbos and quattro traction, but the steering felt numb. Heavier than my 330i, but much more vague and imprecise. Enough to turn me off. Plus, I can't stand turbo lag. Give me instant throttle response with a normally aspirated engine anyday. Back seat was very cramped - that is hopefully solved with the new A4.

platypus · May 2001

Don't get me started on the bimmer.org search engine. It's useless when trying to find recent information as it never turns up any posts in the current year even. Try it. Everything will be from 1998, 1999, or 2000 if you're lucky.

Many of the same topics are re-hashed over and over again, so the way I like to start by looking is through one or two weeks of the most recent archives.

Then, if you still can't find what you're looking for, create a new post, and preface it by saying, "I searched through the archives and couldn't find anything on..." Lets the regulars know that you made an effort to find the information yourself, and they're more willing to help out.

gurumike · May 2001

...sorry if it is. But have you been to

www.bmwfilms.com ??

Incredible short films by top directors. Right now their offering "chosen" by, I think his name is, Ang Lee, the guy who did croutching tiger...

jon_shafer · May 2001

It looks so darn cool...

alpine325i · May 2001

Pictures! Finally! Wow! Thanks guys, The pictures are great, I must have spent a half hour looking at the cars in the Cutter Gallery. Real nice cars. Right now I have a 325i. Now I want a 330 after looking at them, especially the Titanuim Silver Metallic #354. The black interior with the silver trim is a work of art! Serious stuff! (jaw still on the floor)

)

mrpeltyn · May 2001

Greetings Everyone...I just put the first 40 miles on my new 325i and all I can say is EXHILARATING! I bought Titanium Silver/Black Leather, PP, SP, Step, and In-Dash CD. I can't believe I wasted some years driving a 3000GT and a 4Runner (even though they are pretty nice vehicles)! Anyway, thanks to all of you informative folks that educated me so I could get a fab deal. I'm sure I'll post a few operational questions in the weeks ahead!

alpine325i · May 2001

Congratulations on picking up your new 325i! Awesome car! I regret not getting the sport package

When I drove my car home from the dealer, I almost got in an accident because I was staring at the interior in awe and not paying attention to the road! My father is in the market for a new car now. We went to test drive the new Passat wagon. It was ok. When we left together in my 325i with him driving, as soon as we left the lot he said: That's it, it's over, I'm getting the 325i Sport Wagon, End of story, but he wants the same color as my car! AAAAAAAAA!

)

mrpeltyn · May 2001

That's funny about your dad...but you can't blame him! He knows a good thing when he sees it! Anyway, is yours the first BMW you've had? The Volkswagens are pretty cool too by the way. 40 miles into it, I just lovvvvve my 325i. The medium tint I got makes it all the more appealing. Regards...

postoak · May 2001

The MB C240 is the only one on that list that I've eliminated. It somehow doesn't fit my image of myself, plus I would be paying for some things I don't really need -- all that electronic communication equipment, for example. I'd rather spend that money on performance. Your oservations about it pretty much match my own. It DID have a firmer suspension than the Passat. The Passat had a really nice shifter -- very, very, smooth (no stalls there!), but after hanging out at www.vwvortex a while, I am concerned about the reliability of the Passat.

Since the IS300 will have a standard transmission available next year, I will be taking a look at it too. But as things stand right now my doing the Euro Delivery gives the advantage to the BMW.

aaa330i · May 2001

I've used the archive search on bimmer.org extensively the last few weeks as I'm generally loathe to post questions that have been answered many times before. I've found it to be very useful to the bimmer newb, but as I learned more and more and had fewer questions, the signal-2-noise ratio was just too much to handle.

burrsr · May 2001

You go away for another half-day, and all hell breaks loose: I mean, 90 posts worth of catch-up reading, v-tech adopted into the family, cyber-hugs...what's next...dogs and cats living together...it's anarchy!!! But it's definitely All Good...

I gleaned LOTS, as usual, including First Amendment interpretive skills, which can always come in handy...

Again, if VALUE were the #1 driver for most, I suspect there'd be a lot more TL-S's and fewer 3ers on the road. It's a value-packed car (it's #1 competitive advantage) but does not offer the level of thrill/smiles/school-girl giddiness that's implicit in the 3ers "value" interpretation. And, due to the likes of the TL-S, Altezza, etc., the actual $$$/content ratio of 3ers is evolving. Just look at what's standard in the 330i in today's pricing structure versus just 2 months ago -- there's probably $2k of "value" right there (even though I didn't get to take advantage of it -- boohoo). Further, anyone who buys can take full advantage of ED (a truly TERRRRIFIC deal), and anyone who leases has the tremendous (and NOT artificially inflated) residuals that make this car a solid value no matter how you slice it.

Unfortunately, this weekend I am traveling and am limited to the "rental fleet special" -- a Buick Regal (uggh). It was either that or a Grand Am (double uggh).

BTW, no one responded to my earlier post (# 27somethin' -- I'm not "scrolling up" to find it) regarding M3/M5 engines requiring a 1,200 mile oil/filter change. Why (physically, mechanically) is that???

Big smiles!

jpagan · May 2001

Hey guys, I'm also looking to purchase a 325i with PP and SP. Could you all comment on current prices and/or negotiated prices.

jon_shafer · May 2001

I am very sorry if my posting of pictures was offensive, or perceived as solicitation my the members of Edmund's Town Hall Forum. I never dreamed that people here would complain about it. Rest assured, it will never happen again...

pat · May 2001

Please see my emails. We'd love to have that page available under the conditions I mentioned. If my correspondence has not been clear, please feel free to let me know off-line. Thanks.

Pat
Host
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postoak · May 2001

Braveheart1 - what kind of "old technology" do you work with? I, also, work with old technology as my profile shows.

Platypus - I ran the numbers for the 325i, and the options I'm interested in, using the information at Eurobuyers and assuming I got your deal:

Base ----- 22,590
Xenon -------- 425
Metallic ----- 405
SP --------- 1,275
24,695 total invoice, ED
Profit------- 1,400
D&H----------- 645
Del. to Tex.-- 500 (could be less)
TTL---------- 1,700 (an approximation)
Total------ 28,940

Am I missing anything? I'll have to see how this compares to a manual IS300 (which I now see as the main competition) but we also have to take into account that I'll need a rental in Germany for 21 days if I don't go BMW...

jpagan · May 2001

Just curious, what'd you pay for the car.

denright · May 2001

Where are you coming up with $1400 dealer profit? The best I have heard of anyone getting is $1500.

jakep1 · May 2001

Thanks for the reply to my post concerning steering issue. I misunderstood and thought that April production (ie. date on Vin plate) meant the car had the new "old" steering. My biggest complaint (only had the car five days- 800 plus miles already) is the steering on center feel-not a confidence builder on the highway. Other posts have refereed to BMW NA potentially fixing this issue by replacing the steering rack. What are you thoughts on that? I do not want mechanics pulling my new car apart for no reason. For now I am just going to follow the board, enjoy the car, and see if anyone comes up with a plan how/if a retrofit is possible/worth it. Thanks again

aaa330i · May 2001

Borrowed the 330i demo car from the dealer this morning and went driving with my wife for a couple hours. When we finished the drive and I asked "can I buy the car" she replied "I thought it was going to be *just* another car."

I laughed, because all my ramblings had meant nothing until she actually got behind the wheel of one.

Needless to say...I've now got a Titanium Silver 330i, Prem, Sport, 5-spd, Black Leather on order for $1500 over invoice from Garlyn Shelton Imports in Temple, Texas.

micga · May 2001

I have had my 325i for about 4 days now and I have a question reguarding the DSC function. Does this automatically come on when the car is started? The reason being that mine does not, I have to turn it on manually. Also, will the DSC come on when you start slipping (blinking DSC on dash display) even if the DSC is off?? I think mine did when I hit a patch of sand.

Thanks

sandecki · May 2001

Thank YoU!

postoak · May 2001

denright - I got the $1400 over invoice from platypus' post #2727. That was on a 330i. I don't know if the same could be done on a 325i but I don't see why not. But remember I also have figured in another $500 to a 2nd dealer to deliver to my area. That second figure could be less or nothing if dealing with a local dealer. Anyway, $100 in the overall scheme of things (trip to German, etc.) is no big deal.

It really gets even better though because I just checked with a car rental company and it would cost me about $1600 for a rental for the length of time I'll be over there. So that can, with not too much rationalization, be subtracted from the sales price of the car.

sendecki - I believe not. This only applies to purchases, plus you must pay cash 1 month in advance or finance through BMW. So if you have a trade in that was going to be part of a down payment, you'll need to have that sold too. That's the down side -- perhaps 2 months without a car. Not a problem for me.

alpine325i · May 2001

Funny story, I thought the same thing when I was test driving alot of new cars, *just* another car. I was sold within the first minute of driving a BMW. What's the old saying? A test drive is worth a thousand words? or is that a picture? Congratulations! Have fun with the new car

)

wailea · May 2001

Mica if I read your post correctly - you are actually deactivating the DSC by pressing the button and having the light come "on" in the instument panel and on the button. When the DSC in on, you should not see a orange triangle with a exclamation mark in it in the instument display or a light "on" in the DSC button. You can check page 80 of your owners manual, assuming you have a 325i.

errickson1 · May 2001

Believe it or not, I ordered my 325i, sight unseen, and I have NEVER been behind the wheel of a 325, or any other Bimmer! How's that for faith in the auto-enthusiast magazine reviews!

...although I feel like I have had the next best thing after reading some of the memeorable driving experiences on the board...(brave1heart, alpine325, deepdarkblue, etc,etc)

btw, I must add that I have been laughing uncontrollably after reading everyones comments on the "troll"...even the ones from the troll himself!. To the point where the wife and 2 year old walk into my office and ask, "what are you doing in there?!!"

wailea · May 2001

I wanted to make sure you did not take my post wrong. At the end I said ", assuming you own a 325i". I wasn't sure if you owned a 325i or 330i. I went back and read your post again and you have 325i. Sorry for any confusion.

Remember: NO Lights on is Good for DSC. :-)

denright · May 2001

First, on the subject of test driving... I was leaning toward buying an Audi A4 2.8 quattro before I test drove the 330xi. Man, that car had me at hello. After my wife drove it too, the only remaining question was whether or not to get the sports package. LOL

I have read above that week 21 cars went into production about a month early, on or about April 26. Thus, it seems that BMW's German plants are about 4 weeks ahead of schedule.

I suppose my car, which is scheduled to be built in week 25, may be in production in about 2 or 3 weeks, and maybe delivered in early July. Sound right?

Finally, my car is listed on www.bmwusa.com as a steel gray metallic 330i, rather than 330xi. Is that because BMW is essentially treating AWD as an option on the 330i? Or is this in error? Should I be concerned?

brave1heart · May 2001

It's been a week since I picked up my 325I SP last Friday. It's been all miles and smiles so far. Almost 700 on the first count; infinite number on the second count. Not a single problem or even a hint of a problem. As a matter of fact, the car keeps getting better as it is being broken in. I have noticed a slight improvement in acceleration. Brakes are smoother. The emergency brake which seemed very light at first and then it used to tighten up too fast seems to have corrected itself, as it is a lot more progressive now. The water temperature needle has never been past 12 o'clock even in the hottest days. My first service indicator seems to be constantly pushed back by the computer and is now at 14,850 miles with 700 miles on the car. I'm not sure how my aggressive driving has helped to extend the service interval. I gave Strumf Muscle (that's my car's name) its first wash today - it's incredible how easy it is to clean these new cars. The brake dust came off very easily and the wheels are clean and pretty again. I didn't know that the car had been waxed at the dealer's but I can clearly see that by the way the water sits in larger drops on the paint. Well, I wouldn't change a thing except for the steering of course but I am sure BMWNA will resolve this soon. Great all-around car, serious motoring, tons of fun, and it works an ALL five senses - I've never felt more alive!!!

micga · May 2001

WAILEA - Thanks alot for your posts. Right after I posted the message, I looked in my manual and found out just what you said. I felt a little silly since I should of checked the manual before posting the message.

Thanks again for the post

sandiegoblue · May 2001

Hello everyone!
I have been reading this board for the past couple of months and must say that I thoroughly enjoy all the quality information and opinions expressed here. I was originally in the market for a mid year model Passat until I realized that a 325i was just a little bit more. After the first test drive of a sport 325i, not being able to get the grin off my face, I was sold!

About three weeks ago I put an order in at BMW of San Diego for a steel blue 325i, SP, STEP, CD, moonroof and Xenons with production scheduled for about May 20.

GURUMIKE - Could you tell me if there is still time on my order to make any changes? I'm driving myself crazy on whether to get a stick or a STEP. I have always driven a stick, since the mid 70's, but with all the traffic I've been thinking a STEP might make more sense.

Another question I have is whether to get the PERMA PLATE paint protection. I know that there is probably a considerable profit margin built into the $300 cost. On the other hand, if it does protect the paint for 5 years and eliminates the need for waxing the car, it would be worth it. Are there any opinions out there on this product?

BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

Comments

gurumike

:-)))

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