Lexus ES 300/ES 330

lenscap · September 2001

I didn't know the 2002 brochure was in. I'll have to stop at my dealer tonight. Thanks for letting us know.

I realize now the moonroof is standard. My dealer gave me a small guide on the ES which was meant for dealers only. It didn't say anymore than we already know, but it said the moonroof was optional. It was printed in June, so clearly Lexus changed their mind.

As for the price, my dealer sticks to his guns that the car loaded will be $38,500. The NAV/ML option on the GS at $8,000 actually includes the moonroof, heated seats and HID lights, so you need to subtract those out.

Also, the adaptive suspension should be $620, same as it was for 2001.

We can only see how this price thing plays itself out.

lenscap · September 2001

I see Lexus has just announced the price of the 2002 LX 470. While the price is exactly the same as the 2001, the NAV is now standard. In essence they have lowered the price of a NAV-equipped vehicle by $2,000.

So, hopefully there is a little surprise with the price of the ES.

trd4me · September 2001

I agree that impressions can change substantially when you see the car in person. I remember seeing pictures of the IS300, and then seeing the real thing. Honestly, the pictures don't do it any justice(well, at least the ones used in advertisements and thumbnails). I've seen the Camry in the flesh(or should I say metal?), now I'm just waiting to see the ES300. Oh yeah, my local dealer also estimated $38,000 target(like what lenscap has said in the past) and that it shouldn't be competing with the GS300. Which edmunds TMV shows $42950 with Mark Lev/Navigation package.

gambhir · September 2001

Lenscap
You are right on-there may be surprises
My dealer says $39,500 max but it will be great if 38K is the limit
will be nice
I know that the sunshades come packaged with HID and that may remain at 550.
Who knows maybe nav/mark levinson may cap at 4K or so
Even sc430 has nav standard now-will let you know as soon as I find more

mmcbride1 · September 2001

Is a dangerous place for the ES to play, IMO.

Would you rather have an MB C320, a BMW 330i or 525i, an Audi S4 or A6 or an ES300 for the same price?

The ES will sell, no doubt, but IMO the sales numbers will be down from where they would be if Lexus kept pricing constant.

lenscap · September 2001

I was at my dealer yesterday evening. He said Lexus has not formalized prices yet, but that they are now being told a loaded ES will be about $37,500. We can only hope that's true.

Keep in mind when I bought my 1995 ES new the sticker was $35,800.

As for mmcbride1's comment/question, I do agree that coming close to $40,000 is a bad move just to keep the exclusivity. Clearly Lexus does not want the volume that Acura gets with the TL. Obviously the higher the price the less the car will sell.

As for other cars (MB, BMW, Audi), if I spent $40,000 I'd be tempted to get a GS 300 without the NAV/ML. They can be had for that price. I believe all of the other cars mentioned are over $40K with comparable equipment like NAV (sticker, don't know about discounts), so even at $40K (which I doubt will happen) the ES would be less expensive. I've seen loaded C320s and 330i in dealer lots for $43-44K.

mmcbride1 · September 2001

You made a good point. Why get the ES when you can get a GS for a little more?

And yes, if you put every single option on the MB and BMWs, then the price would be over $40k. But I think most people get well equipped, but not loaded, MBs and BMWs. That would put them right around $40k.

And at $40k, a couple thousand either way won't be a major consideration. People will get what they like best (or at least they should).

But why wouldn't Lexus want to sell 60,000 ESs? I think they would love it, provided they have the excess capacity.

There's a lot more competition at the $35-40k level now than there was 6 years ago, too.

$37,500 for a loaded ES is better than $40k, I'll give you that.

lenscap · September 2001

I love it! We're starting to agree on things.

gambhir · September 2001

I really hope you guys are correct--I wish you were on the lexus pricing department

my only apprehension is:
base with destination=32,050
you are then talking chrome wheels, hid package (with r/s wipers), rear shade, heated seats, air suspension, brake assist, VSC and TRAC bundle--assuming moonroof standard--as additional options
For the price to be 37,500 which I agree is the fair price, all these options would hav eto be within 5,500--which may be tough
But who knows--miracles are possible
Comments

mmcbride1 · September 2001

All I was saying is that the competition gets a lot tougher at the $40k level than it is at the $35k level. At $40k, you bring in the BMW 330i (instead of just the 325i), the BMW 5-series, the Audi A6, the MB C320 and the Audi S4, not to mention Lexus' own GS300. IMO, I'd rather take any of those over an ES for the same price. That's why I think the ES needs to stay at $37k or so max. If they keep a $5k or so cushion under those other cars (selling prices, not necessarily MSRP), they shouldn't have much of a problem.

I also think Lexus wants to sell as many ESs as they can.

s852 · September 2001

Chrome wheels, VSC, air suspension, brake assist, etc are very expensive options that add little value to the car.
Even the $2,000 navigation system only adds a few hundred dollars to future resale value.

What is the expected price of a more commonly equipped car that would be just leather, CD changer, moonroof and maybe heated seats and sunshade and few, if any, additional options?

gambhir · September 2001

lenscap
I agree with you completely
s852--the answer to your question will be around $35K
I am not ruling out a $39K sticker with everything
selling price eventually will be $35k
i will know this week

lenscap · September 2001

As an aside, my friend's 1997 ES has the Adjustable Variable Suspension. It seems they didn't make too many 1997-2001 ESs with it, but IMO it is a great feature and really works well. It definitely changes the personality of the car depending upon the setting.

Plus, they improved the system for 2002 by having it work for each wheel independently.

So, if any of you wind up buying the 2002 I recommend this option (I think it is $620).

brian42smith · September 2001

If a loaded ES300 prices at $37,500, I'll buy it. If it comes in at $40,000, I won't. It is a matter of principal. Lexus can easily sell this for car for a very profitable $37,500.

A price beyond that is pure greed and sends a message that Lexus thinks its customers are stupid, or in love with the car regardless of price. I don't think either apply.

Acura has proven that an auto company can package a luxury sport vehicle at a "value" price. I like what they've done. I think they've cut dealer profitability a bit, but I like that nearly everyone pays the same price for their cars.

It is a bit ironic that Lexus may be making the same mistake that Mercedes and BMW made ten years ago by assuming that customers will pay nearly any price for their cars. A 10K premium for a ES300 versus a Acura TL S is a bit much.

I have two Lexus autos and will buy the 2002 ES300 if it is REASONABLY priced. If it isn't, I'll buy something else.

Hope someone from Lexus' marketing department reads these forums.

rebelsk · September 2001

What do you think the pricing will be for the car with all the options excluding the nav system but including Mark Levinson? 36,000?

alpha01 · September 2001

I really can't imagine any sane person screwing up the look of their Lexus by adding cheap, ghetto looking chrome wheels (or gold trim for that matter) ESPECIALLY at 1700 frekin dollars.
The new ES is a fine looking car. Don't fall into the options trap by getting the yucky chrome rims.
~alpha!

s852 · September 2001

Since there are no official prices available, it is early to be getting overworked about the price.
If the MSRP is too high for what you get, people won't pay and the dealers will have to discount it.
If the MSRP is too low, then there will be a stampede to get the car creating a shortage and dealers will mark up it to take advantage of the situation.
So MSRP is not really going to matter that much in the long run because the market will decide what they are willing to pay for it or they will just go buy something else instead.
There are plenty of other nice cars in the same price range from Mercedes, Acura, BMW etc. if the car is released with an overpriced MSRP.

trd4me · September 2001

Remember also, Lexus has had this strange habit of prebundling different options together. Dealers usually receive pre-arranged combinations where customers don't really have much choice in choosing a desired option without getting another premium. An example is with the GS300. If you want the HID lamps, you gotta go with at least the Mark Levinson audio. For the IS300, if you want heated seats, you have to get the luxury leather package, which only is combined with certain colors(can't get'em on the yellow IS). Right now it's wait and see, but if pricing did come to $40k+ fully loaded, I would not go with the ES300.

lenscap · September 2001

I agree Acura has some wonderful products at a lower price point. But the new ES will not be $10,000 more than a TL-S. That car is about $32,500 w/NAV. By the way, who here remembers the previous generation TL that stickered for $38,000 loaded?

As for Lexus doing strange pricing things, think about the 2000-01 ES models. Loaded they were around $37,000, but the window stickers always subtracted $2,000 for the Luxury Options Package. So the car was now $35,000. I think they do the same thing with the RX. Perhaps that will happen with the 2002.

mathtype · September 2001

I received a small (preview?) ES 300 brochure from Lexus today. For those of you who haven't seen it, here's some information it supplies about the car that you might find useful.

** There are nine available exterior colors: Alabaster, Mystic Gold, Starlight Pearl, Blue Onyx Pearl, Millennium Silver, Black Garnet Pearl, Mystic Sea Opalescent, Crystal White, and Black Onyx.

** Three colors of leather are available: black, gray, and ivory. The gray is not available in fabric, but I believe that this is essentially irrelevant (see below).

** The moonroof is standard; just about everything else you'd expect to be optional (including leather) is optional. However, my *guess* is that the Premium Package (leather, CD changer, and seat/mirror memory), which is required for both nav and mark levinson, will come on every ES 300.

** Other options are: brake-related features (VSC, TRAC, and EBD), AVS suspension, HID lights, rain-sensing wipers, rear sunshade, and heated seats. (I apologize for the acronyms, but my fingers are getting tired.)

The brochure, of course, makes no mention of price, and the pictures and text yield nothing you probably don't already know.

BTW, my closest dealer says that no dealer will show the car before Oct. 1. True or false?

lotusfla · September 2001

Thanks to Hurricane Gabrielle, my ac now has a musty odor. I know to spray lysol into the return for the ac, but where specifically is is the return?

rebelsk · September 2001

Has anyone seen one of these at their dealers. I know they said October 1 but sometimes they show up earlier. Thanks

gambhir · September 2001

HI!
this chat has gone so quiet--come on folks any rumors about pricing?

saloveku · September 2001

there are pictures and descriptions on the Lexus Canada site - www.lexus.ca

bacojoe · September 2001

On the Toyota press release website the announcement was made that the 2002 Lexus ES300 will be in showrooms on Mon Sep 24,2001 with a base price of $31,505.00 the same price as the 2001 ES300. I could not locate any prices on optional equipment.

clim · September 2001

I have a 1999 ES300 and have been very happy with the car. Before I purchased my car, a friend of mine told me she hated Lexus drivers because they drove so slowly. I did not notice this before I bought my car, but I did notice the slow Lexus drivers soon after.

Why are there so many Lexus drivers that drive so slowly?

I love passing other luxury brand autos to show that not all Lexus drivers drive like they belong in a nursing home.

To all Lexus drivers out there-PLEASE KEEP UP WITH TRAFFIC AND STAY OUT OF THE FAST LANE IF YOU ARE KEEPING WITHIN THE SPEED LIMIT! Thanks.

dave210 · September 2001

Hi, while I don't own an ES (Toyota Avalon), I still have been reading about the new ES on this board, since it might be a likely candidate to replace my Avalon.

Anyway, today on Saturday the 22, a grayish-blue new 2002 ES 300 passed me with the Lexus dealer advertisement plates. Obviously this meant whoever bought the car has not gotten new plates yet. Interesting though that I saw one today when they aren't supposed to even be released until Monday. I thought I'd just pass that along.

Oh, by the way, it looked very sleek and low to the ground. A lot like the new Camry in styling but a little bit more radical. I know that's almost an oxymoron when talking about the ES 300, but compared to the model it replaces, the styling is definitely a big change. I'm still not sure what I think of it. It looked good but the headlights seem to go on forever, since they kind of sweep back on the hood a little too much for my taste. I didn't have much time to examine it, for I was passing the lady driving it at 35 mph, but I saw enough of it to make an opinion on the styling. I'll have to wait until I can really examine one at the dealer.

lenscap · September 2001

Whoever you saw driving that new ES must have been someone from the dealer. My understanding is that no car can be sold and delivered prior to October 1, although I could be wrong.

Also, all three dealers in my area say they aren't getting cars until the end of the week. Hopefully they will get them sooner, though.

lenscap · September 2001

I called Lexus Customer Service and they gave me the prices.

31,505 -- Car
575 -- Shipping
550 -- In-dash 6-CD
620 -- Adjustable variable suspension
1700 -- Chrome wheels
440 -- Heated seats
640 -- HID lights w/rain-sensing wipers
210 -- Power rear shade
330 -- Wood wheel/shifter
650 -- Traction control/brake assist/stability control

Packages:
1560 -- Leather, memory seats/mirrors
3010 -- Leather pkg w/ML stereo and 6-CD
3960 -- Leather pkg w/NAV and single & 6-CD
2110 -- Premium (leather pkg and 6-CD)
4860 -- Leather pkg w/ML and NAV

jrichrds · September 2001

I read bacojoe's post that the new ES300 would be in showrooms today (Sept. 24), and sure enough, they were available at the Lexus dealer I went to.

I'm not a fan of how the front of the car looks. But the inside was nicer and roomier than earlier models.

rebelsk · September 2001

Are the full brochures available at the dealers now?

jrichrds · September 2001

The Lexus dealer close to me had the cars, but no brochures yet.

gambhir · September 2001

so a fully loaded ES 300 with all the options is $41200-as I had predicted--invoice will be around $36200---hmmmmmm so it is NOT value priced

skinnygandu · September 2001

Actually a loaded 2002 ES300 is $41,530. But it depends on how much you absolutely need.

Some things I would find unnecessary, like the GPS Navigation system, the ML Sound system, as well as rear sunshade, wood wheel/shift knob & chrome wheels.

For a car the caliber of the ES300, $41K hardly seems high considering what you get: Mark Levinson stereo, GPS Navigation system, power sunshade, chrome wheels, wood wheel, and AVS.

mmcbride1 · September 2001

But for that same $41k (actually, even less than that), you can have an Audi S4, which has AWD, Bose stereo, a 250 hp twin turbo engine, ESP, traction control, xenons, etc. It has a great interior with outstanding performance (performace far exceeding the ES, or any other Lexus except the GS430, which costs $50k+).

If you'd rather have luxury over performance, get an A6, which has everything you mentioned (except it has Bose instead of ML - let's not debate which is better - I'm sure the ML is, but it's more expensive, too). With the A6, you also get Quattro AWD, and a more luxurious interior (IMO, although Audi is known for their interiors).

Or for that $40k, you could have a Volvo XC, a BMW 330i, an MB C320, or even a Lexus GS300.

Why would you take the ES300 over any of these (seriously)?

gambhir · September 2001

Yes you hit the nail on the head-the GS300 is deeply discounted because of economy --the ES will not be yet because of newness
and above all power still remains same--If it was a 260 hp or more powertrain then atleast I would have said okay--wow!--well also I was hoping they will offer a value discount of $2100 or so to make it competitive--even my dealer was expecting the cap to be $39K--this is really absurd--another point is they offer a lot of goodies on ES and yet they leave the GS430 which is 56K fully loaded without even a sunshade or rain sensing wipers--I am really disappointed at the strategy here
I think ES will not sell very well then they will start selling at invoice pretty soon

lenscap · September 2001

All the comparisons above are not relevant. While all the cars you mentioned are indeed great cars, you have to compare SIMILAR cars, as well as cars EQUIPPED the same. You are comparing non-loaded cars with a loaded ES300 -- very unfair.

S4 -- While a very fine car, is not the same type of car as the ES300 except for price. It is a high-performance car along the lines of BMW's M cars. I highly doubt people will be cross-shopping the two. Heck, the Chrysler Town & Country is almost $40,000 grand but you can't compare it to an ES.

A6 -- Again a very nice car, but equipped like a loaded ES300 the 2001 model (2.8 w/quattro) is $42,480, $2,650 MORE than the ES at $39,830. The Audi does have quattro, though, so this is a close comparison.

330i -- More sport-oriented, although could be considered a legitimate competitor even though it is much smaller. Still, this car with NAV is $42,785, $2,955 MORE than the ES at $39,830.

C320 -- See the 330i.

Even the GS300 loaded with NAV and ML is in the mid-upper $40s. You're comparing a loaded ES in it's first model year with a near-base GS in it's last year before a major redesign. So part of what you're paying with the ES is the newness.

Very few cars loaded with NAV are $40,000. Realistically most ES300s will be sold with leather, 6-CD, heated seats, HID lights and VSC/TRAC/brake assist. Those cars will be $35,920, which is very competitive if you ask me.

And there are some fine alternatives out there for a little less, including the I35 and TL.

In summary, most cars out there are great. But the ES300 is still cheaper than a comparably-equipped A6, 330i or C320. If someone can spend $40,000 maximum and they want a loaded car with NAV, the A6, 330i and C320 are not options.

So, not to be sarcastic but yes, I would seriously buy one.

mmcbride1 · September 2001

But the above comparisons ARE relevant because most people cross-shop cars based on price.

Anyways, I was just mentioning all of the other great cars out there for the same price.

All of the cars I mentioned can be had well-equipped for $40k (I did not mention any cars that start at $40k because to get them well-equipped would cost much more). Therefore, while a 'loaded' 330i or C320 would cost more than $40k, most of them sell right in the $40k range. Actually, based on the people over in the BMW 3 series board, most 330i's are coming in at the $38-39k range, and since they are almost all ordered from the factory, that tells me that's how most people want them equipped.

As for the A6, the pricing on the A6 3.0 is not out yet, so we can't compare it, but the 2001 A6 2.8 costs $41,480(including destination) for a fully loaded model WITH NAV, and prior Audi owners get a $1,000 loyalty rebate. Seeing as A6's are not selling for MSRP, and the fact that all Audis have free maintenance for the first 4 years/50k miles, and the A6 has Quattro AWD. Maybe you don't like Audi's for some reason. That's fine, but they undoubtedly offer more than the ES. You could have a 2001 A6 2.8 fully loaded for around $38-39k, easily. The 3.0 pricing will be similar, but they won't be discounted as much right off the bat.

So not only is the A6 2.8 Quattro an option, it offers more than the ES for the same amount of money (actually, it's probably cheaper right now). It has everything the ES has, plus AWD and free maintenance for 4 years.

And what about the Volvo V70 XC? What does the ES offer for $40k that the Volvo doesn't? The Volvo has AWD, too. I had one of these for a loaner when I took my A4 in for my 5000 mile service. It's a very nice car.

So you'd rather have a 'loaded' ES300 than a car with maybe no sunshade (or something trivial like that) but much better performance and a better interior for the same price, or a fully loaded V70 XC/A6 for less? Why? Because it's a Lexus? Does a brand name really mean that much to you?

lenscap · September 2001

Just so you know, I do value your opinions.

The A6 price I got was off the Audi web site. Perhaps your info is more accurate.

I do think the A6 is a beautiful car, don't get me wrong. I just personally would not want one. I've heard of too many problems, especially electrical. Now this may not be the norm, but it's what I've heard. And I would keep the car about 6-7 years, so I would be out of the free maintenance period. And aside from that, I just prefer the Japanese cars overall. Just like some people prefer German cars. But again, I would see nothing wrong if somebody wanted to get the A6 over the ES300.

And personally I would not want quattro. It just adds weight and cost to the car for something I feel I would not want or need except on rare occasions. So, while that is a plus for some people it is not for me.

As for Volvos, I'm not crazy about them at all and would not consider them. But again that's just me.

At this stage in my life I do think the only cars I would consider would be from Lexus, Acura and Infiniti. In fact my brother just got a 2002 CL Type-S and I think it's great.

And while it doesn't mean everything to me, the Lexus brand does mean something. My family has owned three LSs, two GSs and my one ES. And I love each one. It wouldn't stop me from buying another brand, but it does count for something.

I really am glad there are so many choices out there. Just more power to me when it comes time to buy.

As for the ES300, so few will be near the $40,000 mark that I think it's a moot point. Most will be $34,000-$36,000.

jimbres · September 2001

I'm inclined to agree with lenscap. Prices matter, but other factors drive the shopping process.

Few enthusiasts will find any of the entry-level FWD Japanese cars very compelling, although the Acura TL-S is probably more interesting than the Lexus or the Infiniti. My wife has a '99 ES300. It's a pleasant car that's been absolutely trouble-free during the 2 1/2 years that she's driven it. She loves it. But it's not an enthusiast's car. How could it be? It's FWD, & you can't buy it with a stick. That's enough to keep many (if not most) enthusiasts from test-driving it.

The Japanese FWD entry-level luxury cars are aimed at folks who value chrome wheels & power sunshades over razor-sharp handling & the pleasure of a perfectly weighted clutch. Most of these people wouldn't go near an Audi or a BMW showroom.

mmcbride1 · September 2001

I got the A6 info from KBB (www.kbb.com). Just go to the A6 2.8 and you can add up all of the options.

Personally, I'd rather have a car that's fun to drive. That's why I drive an Audi and you have a Lexus.

lenscap · September 2001

This isn't related to the ES, but I thought you'd like it. There's a family that lives right down the street from me. They have one son who just turned 18. The parents bought the son a Land Rover Discovery when he turned sixteen. I guess all his friends now have SUVs and he wanted something different, so they bought him a new, bright blue 2001 S4.

mmcbride1 · September 2001

Nope, I don't really like that. I think it's ridiculous to buy stuff like that for kids. They don't appreciate it and they don't ever learn the value of how hard you have to work to be able to afford a $40k car...

Nice car, though.

lenscap · September 2001

Couldn't agree with you more about teaching kids values. But I knew you'd like the car.

ceccon · September 2001

I own a 93 ES 300, and am "cross-shopping" for a similar sedan. I have narrowed it down to the Lexus and the Mercedes C Class. Lenscap asked the rhetorical question as to whether a brand name matters. In my opinion, it does. However, it does not matter because of status, but because of reliability.

For example, my wife owns a 1995 Volvo 960 with 80,000 miles on it. The car has had repeated problems, and we have spent at least $2,500 on extraordinary repairs on the car. My Lexus ES 300, in comparison, has 152,000 miles, and never needed any extraordinary repairs until 130,000 miles.

Indeed, when I read the posts on the C Class, I notice that people have little problems like trucks not opening, keys not working, etc. although I would like to get a different car, having driven an ES for nearly 9 years, I am hesitant to switch brands given the reliability of the Lexus model.

Put simply, when you buy a Lexus, you are buying reliability. European cars will simply cost more to maintain. For people like me, who rely on their cars for work, that is a serious consideration.

jrichrds · September 2001

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm in the market for a new car, and my choices were Audi, Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. But then I think of reliability, and the only brand car out of the ones I want that I'm left with is Lexus. My '91 Lexus LS400 has been trouble-free ever since we bought it back in '90. My friends with Lexuses (Lexi? hehe) also have had great reliability track records with their cars. On the other hand, I have friends with BMWs and Mercedes, both old and brand new, that have had all sorts of problems with their cars and complain to me quite often. Not to mention my dad, who vowed never to buy another Mercedes again after his experience. Of course, this doesn't mean that all German cars have poor build quality, as I'm sure there are Mercedes out there that go trouble-free for years on end. And vice versa, that it doesn't mean all Lexus cars are ultra reliable. But given my own personal experience, it's hard to justify going with any other brand. So yes, to me, brand really does matter. There are certain models from the German manufacturers that if it was instead made by Lexus, I'd pick it over any car in the Lexus lineup. But unfortunately, that's not the case.

jrichrds · September 2001

In making a decision, it came down to the 2001 GS300 or the 2002 ES300. The only appeal of the 2001 GS300 for me was the extremely low price (vs. sticker/invoice) and the fact that the 2001 and 2002 year GS300 were basically the same. The 2001 GS300 was at $34,699 base, which I believe is even under the published invoice price.

However, despite the fact that I'm not too hot about how both cars look, I liked the 2002 ES300 better. The interior of the ES really won me over...it appears much more refined than the GS. If I hadn't known how much the cars' MSRPs were, I would've thought the 2002 ES300 to be the more expensive car.

And looking at the options, the only thing I really want is the leather package, which is basically on most all the ES's. According to Lenscap's figures, that would put the sticker price including shipping to around $33,600. Beats me why everyone's focusing on the car being in the high $30k range when you can get a nicely equipped one for under $34K sticker. That's value to me, and an investment in reliability. Sure, the Mark Levinson system will kick some booty, but if the standard Lexus premium audio system is anything like the one in my current and old LS, it's no slouch either. If it's like the audio system in the IS300 though, that's a different story.

If you can wait a year (I can't), I'd suggest waiting for the 2003 ES instead. It'll probably get a better engine with more horsepower to level the field with its 260hp competition, and maybe some minor changes to the styling to address the complaints. All for probably the same price. Unfortunately, I can't wait that long. If I could, I'd get the 2003 Nissan Z instead.

Lenscap,
You've had 6 Lexus cars in your family?? Geez, no wonder you know so much about these cars. Anyways, thanks for all the info you provide here.

wheels4me · September 2001

when you say sticker will be 33,600 does that mean
that you expect to pay $33,600 or would you expect
to get that car at a lower price as demand lessens
during the yr.

skinnygandu · September 2001

mmcbride1,

Your post is kinda, well, stupid. Comparing a S4 to a ES300 is ridiculous. Sure the S4 offers a performance advantage but the ES300 offers a luxury advantage. Alot of the stuff you speak of is your opinion. ie. looks and style. As far as the ES300 compared to both the S4 and A6, it can be said that both of those cars offer less than the ES300 in some key areas. those being quality, reliability & luxury. And for $40K you will be driving a bare bones A6. For example, a ES300 without NAV, chrome wheels, and ML stereo, and AVS will cost about $35K MSRP. A Audi A6 2.8 FWD with similar options will cost about $38K. Take a 2.8 Quattro and you're starting at $37K. Fully loaded $45K. And Quattro isn't necessarily a plus.

And to check reality, go check out prices on BMW 330i's, C320's on your time off from trying to bash the ES300. A loaded C320 runs over $50K! And you get less room and only a few more key features. A 330i can run into the mid-$40Ks, and again you get only a few more significant features and less room on all counts.

And a Volvo XC? Isn't that a station wagon? Well, then, take a Lexus RX300. Much better than a Volvo XC. And a GS300 starts at $38K or so, loaded you're in the mid to high $40,000 range.

gambhir · September 2001

No one has even mentioned the awesome fuel economy of the new car--it is 21/29 averaging 25+--well also just wait a few months-it is very feasible to get a fully loaded ES for 36.5K or so as I have been told--the invoice max-s at 35.1K--also I think let us respect each other's opinions--someone may like leather only but someone may really want Nav--some really like bigger and shinier wheels--let us leave that to each individual and I also think it is unfair to call any post "stupid"---that is not good courtesy
I also think you cannot buy every car and there are a lot of good cars--each car has to be judged on its own merit--comparisons lead no where but confusion-

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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