Lexus ES 300/ES 330

lotus18 · September 2001

have you thought about the newly upgraded Infiniti I35? not I30.
I know Infiniti has been shadowed by Lexus all these years, but seems like they are seriousely trying hard to catch up.
It does not take a lawyer to appreciate the difference between a Lexus and a Toyota, especially after you have owned both before. The service and the prestige are the big reasons to pay the extra, not to mention the refinement you can only find inside a Lexus. However, for a change, I would seriously look into the Infiniti.
I have also tried out the MB C-class, BMW and even the Jag X-type. My conclusion is still a Lexus, but..., with the 'value for money' and 'for a change' plus 'similar dealer service' in my mind, I am kind of fall for the Infiniti I35. What do you think, Ceccon?

rebelsk · September 2001

I think the posts are right and that the car is being configured in three different ways with options. You can order one with the options you want but you have to wait three months. I am doing it that way because I want the Mark Levinson stereo but not the Nav and none are being delivered that way.

brian42smith · September 2001

I also agree with Ceccon's comments. I've owned Honda, Acura, Lexus, and Mercedes autos. Right now, I am very close to trading a Mercedes E320 for a new ES300 or possibly the Infiniti I35.

I like the Mercedes, but have been hit with some maintenance surprises that I'd just as soon not worry about. Last summer, the sunroof locked open right as I parked for a Broncos Football game. I couldn't get it closed, period. I worried all game about rain and/or someone stealing my radio.

I visited our Lexus dealer earlier this week and saw the 2002 ES300. I wanted to love it, but didn't.

I like the front, but think Lexus could have been much more creative with the rear of the car. Personally, I think the design is too boring. I/m also not a big fan of chrome door handles, so that doesn't help.

The color of the ES300 was gold, I hope to see a dark blue ES300 and hope that will help. I own two Lexus autos and am sold on the quality and reliability.

Has anyone looked at the Infiniti I35? I'd like to see one up close.

tgif888 · September 2001

Yes. I had see the I35 and test drove it. The engine is quick and responsive. But starting the 2002 there is less difference between the Maxima and the I35. They now both have Xenon headlights as standard equipment, and navigation system available. Both above features are not available to the Maxima before the 2002 model. The only things I saw is the I35 offers longer warranty and the rear sunshade.

And since the Maxima is selling at invocie now and the I35 is still selling at either MSRP or $1500 off.

Hope this help.

lotus18 · September 2001

As mentioned by Ceccon, they are definitely different. For some professional, he/she may not want to be seen in a Toyota or Nissan or to pick up a big client in either. So, Lexus/Infiniti is a no brainer.
For me, I have owned both Toyota and Lexus before, I'd pay the extra any time, just for the service. Besides, the interior refinement and workmanship in a Lexus is worth every extra in my opinion. The same logic as to why people choose to eat in a restaurant with good service instead of a self-serve fast food one.
Do not forget the resale value too. Every one knows an used ES300 is always worth more than a similar used Camry because the Lexus depreciates less.

topgun7 · September 2001

Wifey and I went through the exact selection process as some of you have gone through for the camry/I35/maxima/es300 (this is going to be my car). Test drove the camry and Maxima. I love the power of the maxima and wifey like the camry but both of us want this car to be a little bit more upscale. Saw the picture of Es300 and I35 and wifey again like Es and I like the I35. The debate went on for about a month until a week ago. We bought a 01 Deville DTS instead. The sticker price is about $51K but the dealer went down to $44K+ and then we have a rebate coupon and GM credit card rebate and drove the final total to $42K+. When you factor into the 0% finance for 5 years, it is equivalent to buying a car in the $38k range using a discount rate of 5% (our cost of money if we were to finance the purchase ourselves). The current climate of 0% finance and special lease deal will make more cars available in this price range (35K -39K). Hope that our experience can help some of you in your shopping.

By the way, wifey and I really like the DTS. She actually let me drive her SC430 now that she can take the kids to school in the DTS (Heh Heh!)

texbean · October 2001

a year when you have a taste of GM reliability. I'll take my chances with my ES300 ('01 bought in May - 3300 miles, no problems) over anything GM produces. One of my friends bought an STS 3 years ago and has an average of 5 unscheduled dealer visits per year for various problems. Now, I think the DTS is a nice car, but reliability is first on my list because I hate to waste time in the dealer waiting room.

s852 · October 2001

"Every one knows an used ES300 is always worth more than a similar used Camry because the Lexus depreciates less."

It does not depreciate "less." It is worth more used, but it also cost a lot more new.
You get part of that extra money back when you resell it, but not all of it.

fredvh · October 2001

I sure would appreciate it if someone could post some digital pictures of the 2002 ES300 from the local dealership, several angles would really be nice.

Where is alfinegold?

52cars · October 2001

Is BFGoodich Touring T/A VR a good tires? Thanks.

c3po33 · October 2001

Anybody looking at the Infinity I35 should wait for the Infinity G35 coming out this spring as a 2003. It is rear drive, around 260 hp, great looks, etc.

I have an ES 300 now, I saw the new 2002 and test drove it and liked it a lot. I will wait till this summer to decide between the Lexus ES 300, Infinity G35, and the Acura TL Type-S (like my wife's). I wish Lexus had upped the horsepower on the new ES because then my decision would be so much easier.

Link for G35 here: http://www.motortrend.com/july01/g35/1.html

lenscap · October 2001

I put a set of the BFGoodrich Touring T/As on my 1995 ES 300 two years ago. This was because I really liked the Comp T/As I put on my old Honda Prelude.

The Touring T/As have been great for me. They seem to be wearing very well, and are quieter and much better in the snow than my original Dunlops. I would highly recommend them.

52cars · October 2001

with that, i just ordered a set of BFGoodich Touring T/A VR for my 96 es.
thanks.

lenscap · October 2001

I'm glad I could help. I'm sure you'll enjoy the tires.

jrichrds · October 2001

Does the tire pressure recommended by Lexus apply only to the brand/type of tire that originally come with the car? Or does it apply regardless of brand/type?

gambhir · October 2001

Folks,
The ES now appears as of this afternoon at the main site where you can view options, 360 degree views, colors, pricing, etc
Enjoy

jrichrds · October 2001

It's about time! Thanks for the heads up gambhir.

garyct · October 2001

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fredvh · October 2001

Thanks for the site for the great pictures. I really appreciate that. I am still not fond of the new shape however. Thanks again.

jji7363 · October 2001

Just checked out the Lexus web site to configure "my" ES300. Looks like you can only get it two ways. The predetermined configuration looks fine excet I also want VSC and AVS. Looks like this is not possible, that they are serving up two versions only. I'll wait a couple of months for the people willing to take a preconfigured ES300 at MSRP to clear the market, then go chat with the dealer. Has anyone else spoken to their dealer about getting VSC and/or AVS? AVS looks like a nice toy, but VSC is a must-have safety option. Seems odd that Lexus wouldn't offer that standard.

lenscap · October 2001

My story is similar to yours. I have been waiting for the 2002 to come out, hoping to get one of the first ones. I want the car loaded. However, here in the Chicago area, the cars are not coming in (at least initially) with either AVS or the TRAC/VSC/brake assist options.

My dealer said the only way to get these features is to order a car, which may take 2-3 months. It looks like that's what I'm going to do.

By the way, when the car was last redesigned for 1997 my friend wanted a car with AVS. He, too, had to order a car since they did not come in that way. If you can wait, the AVS on my friend's car is great.

wheels4me · October 2001

does anyone know if it is true that you get 100,000 bumper to bumper warranty when you purchase a used lexus from a lexus dealer.

dcrist · October 2001

I test drove & priced both cars last week. Both are great vehicles. The ES comparably equipped w/Nav. & ML Package was $39000+. They would not budge from MSRP. Said they had 50 people on a waiting list. I bought the I35 @ $2050 off the MSRP for $32000. I couldn't see $7000 difference. Also thought the ES just looked too much like the Camry on the outside.

rolloman · October 2001

I gotta confess guys....I'm a big ES fan! Driven a 96 since brand new...BUT...Lexus really goofed on the exterior of the 02 ES. The headlights are a little too radical for me. Hopefully, that will be corrected in a couple of years.

The interior is awesome...but not awesome enough for me to purchase due to my extreme dislike of the exterior.

Why did they do that with the headlights? It's dreadful!! I'm disappointed as heck.

Oh well...time will tell.

Any thoughts?

gambhir · October 2001

Actually there are three ways you can configure the car--one premium, one with HID and one with mark/nav
I got my factory order confirmation with mark/nav--I am getting VSC as well-However the car is due this month end--so VSC is offered--it is offered on the web-site also-make sure you scroll down to see it--so VSC is part of the pre-set configuration-however AVS has run into some tech difficulty-this year they tried to make all the wheels independent and they ran into some bug-so it is not just a question of special order-it is not being offered right now-period
My letter says " AVS --an option you expressed in is not available now for the forseeable future"--may even be pushed till next spring when one more feature is being added "adjustable pedals"

Again, however no issues with VSC--Also Brake Assist is included in VSC package along with TRAC
Pl. note that TRAC is standard even if VSC was not ordered so you need not be concerne about safety--however, ofcourse more safety features --the better

suv2002 · October 2001

We started shopping for a GS300 but liked the '02 ES300 better. The interior was much roomier and although it didn't have the pep or RWD of the GS, the ES was a nice, plush ride. Our dealer in NJ would only go to $35,200 for a car loaded with every but Nav and Levinson. Another dealer in MA wouldn't budge off of $35,700.

That said, the I35 is looking very tempting since I can get one for $32,345 with cold weather and sports package. I'm off for a test drive tomorrow and will let you know what's up.

lenscap · October 2001

Thanks for the useful info. I'm just curious on two things:

1. What area of the country do you live in?
2. Was your car special ordered, or are you picking one that is coming in your dealer's allocation?

My dealer is checking with the Central Region manager since AVS may only be offered in certain regions for now. I have heard nothing about any technical difficulties, although you may be right. Lexus Customer Service checked and told me there are cars being made in October with AVS (very few though).

Again, congrats on your car. I'm sure you will love it!

rebelsk · October 2001

I am also ordering a car because I wanted the Mark Levinson but not the navigation system. I have not heard anything about the AVS not being offered and that is an option i have ordered. However, i have been told by my dealer that my car will not be available till November. Maybe later cars have the AVS.

parnola · October 2001

You get 100k warranty assuming you purchased a Certified Pre-Owned Lexus from a Lexus dealer. To fit the bill, the car may not have more than 60,000 miles on it and cannot be older than 4 (I think) model years.

gambhir · October 2001

I live in Oregon--Northwest and I special ordered my car--

Hey lenscap--by the way I chose the color based on your advice--so thanks--I was debating b/w black garnet and mystic sea and you had seen the garnet and liked it--so I went for it--I will let you know when I get my car--can hardly wait--when will the month be over!

Regardoing AVS--maybe my region is not getting it--who knows__Atleast I am getting TRAC, VSC and brake assist--so that should be fun--well AVS--maybe next time

jamrock4 · October 2001

Test drove the Camry SE V6. Handling is significantly better than the ES300. It is no sports car but I personally felt that the car was a lot more fun to drive.

lenscap · October 2001

I went to my dealer last night to finalize my special order. I want everything but chrome wheels. The dealer said it will take up to three months to get the car.

As for AVS, it is available. There were never any problems with the feature. Lexus is just building the first cars a certain way. For example, the Central Region received/will receive about 900 cars that were made in September. None had AVS, and only a handful had TRAC or the rear shade. That's because Lexus built cars as they felt demand would be. Very few 2001 cars had AVS (most buyers didn't want it), so they're not producing many with it for now. Another example: none of the 900 cars have just ML or NAV; it's either both options or neither one.

Gambhir, I tend to think your car is not a special order because you're getting it in 2-3 weeks (an ordered car takes months). Your fax said AVS is not available because no cars in September for your region were probably made with it, and you are taking a car already produced and on its way here.

One other thing, TRAC is optional (as part of the package with brake assist and VSC). It is NOT standard (I looked on all window stickers at the dealer lot last night).

Finally, the Black Garnet is a great color. I'm sure you'll love it.

gambhir · October 2001

Hi-perhaps you are correct--looks like I selected something they were already making so it is faster
anyways one month is long enough to wait--three months would have been terrible:)
What color are you ordering? what interior?

michaelf2 · October 2001

The 2002 ES reminds me of the Toyota Avalon. The body of the car looks too big for the wheels.
(IMO)

lenscap · October 2001

I ordered a Millenium Silver with a black interior.

My 1995 ES is black with a black interior, so I wanted to go with a lighter exterior this time (but I still like the black interior). If I went dark again it would have been the Black Garnet in a heartbeat.

Please let us know all about your car when you get it. I'm jealous you're getting it so soon!

suv2002 · October 2001

I took the basic I35 and sports package out today. I liked the sports package much better--good road feel, less leaning than the standard suspension. The car felt fine but...

Even though the acceleration was much better than the Lexus, I still felt the '02 ES300 gives a much more luxurious impression--exterior and especially the interior. I have 2 prices for the I35, $32,345 and $32,455. I know I can get them down a bit more. The Lexus is basically 10% more, 3 grand. It's a lot for a "feeling" but I think that's the way I'm headed.

We have a '98 QX4 and this will be our drive-around car; my wife will use it a lot for work.

Any thoughts?

lenscap · October 2001

Of course on this board you'll find pro-ES 300 comments. Since I'm buying the ES I obviously like it better. Without getting into a war about why I think the ES is much better (I want to avoid any conflicts), I will say the one nice thing about the ES is that it is brand new and has five years ahead of it before there is a redesign. The I35, on the other hand, is a mid-life freshening of the I30 and will probably be completely redesigned in two years. In addition to a new look, part of being new is having the latest advancements (for example, the ES has both front and back side curtain airbags while the I35 does not have any curtain airbags).

rebelsk · October 2001

Well, i decided place an order with my dealer and have been told thatit will take 2-3 months for delivery. I went with Starlight Pearl with the ivory interior and opted for the Mark Levinson but not the Navigation system. I also went with th VSC and the AVS systems. I am in the northeast and hope that it arrives before the snow arrives.

3pointstar · October 2001

I'll tell you why the ES300 is better. I sat in a 2002 ES and a 2002 Camry this past weekend when I went along with a buddy of mine. ES had a gorgeous interior. Leather was buttery soft, excellent wooden wheel, interior components are solid.

As a former I30 driver, I can tell you that I30/35 interiors are CHEAP. The silly analog clock they put in the middle of the dash is a sorry attempt by a desperate car company (Nissan) to add some distinction. All they have done is made the Infiniti I30/35 an overpriced Maxima. Unless you look carefully, you really can't tell a Maxima from an I30/35. As for the Lexus, the difference is like night and day between the ES and Camry.

ceccon · October 2001

with the post concerning the i35 interior. I went and looked at one this weekend following a post on this board. The intreior simply does not compare to a Lexus.

I also agree with the post concerning the headlights on the ES 300. They seem soemwhat out of place. I am hoping that Lexus is ahead of its time and the the design will grow on me. However, I like the GS headlight configuration far better.

Based on my invetsigation to date, I'm now considering buying a used 2000 ES 300. With the new model out, prices on used 300s are dropping and will continue to drop.

jji7363 · October 2001

for the info on AVS and VSC. I'm not sure of availability of AVS here in the Pittsburgh area, but I can make do with my '93 Saab 900 until it's available. Since I keep cars for several years, there's no sense settling

My wife and I walked around an ES300 (sales people were too busy to help us) and she didn't like the high windows. Could anyone who has actually sat in the ES300 comment? Do you notice this design? It's probably a design fad that other car companies will soon emulate...

Seems like the interior is compensating for shortfalls in the exterior in the minds of many posts here. Nothing's perfect, I guess.

lenscap · October 2001

Maybe it's just me, but I actually love the exterior design as much as the interior. I think it's very distinctive and upscale-looking.

gambhir · October 2001

I also like the xterior as well as interior--I think it is not bland and makes a statement "I am different and elite"
I also want to point out--people often worry about just Hp numbers--well torque and hp are important together --also factors like whether you have five or four speed auto transmission, whether torque is available at low rpm (VVT-i gives 80% torque in just 1200rpm)--and body weight control the agility of the car
This way I-35 has 255 hp and lexus es 210--then how come 45 hp were not enough to be way ahead for i35-the fact is i35 is at 7.0 seconds 0-60 and es at probably 7.6 (official is at 8.2 but lexus is very conservative and I clocked this at test drive)

Also interior is so rich that you fall in love with the car--teh 3D gauges are so cool also

I would really suggest--don't go by just hp--it is a misleading number--I would much rather have 210 with 21/29 mileage than have 250 with 17/24

mmcbride1 · October 2001

1 second is a HUGE difference 0-60. If you don't like the I35, that's fine. But the difference between 8 seconds to 60 and 7 seconds to 60 is a very big difference. I don't buy that the Es is really a 7.5 second car, either. If Lexus says it's 8.2, it might get down to 8.0, or even the high 7's, but they're not going to be that far off.

The ES does not get 21/29. According to Edmunds, it gets 19/26 EPA estimated mileage. And the I35's mileage is 20/26 (per Edmunds). I'd rather have 255 hp with 20/26 than 210 hp with 19/26 (which is the 2001 ES numbers, but it has the EXACT SAME ENGINE for 2002). But that's just me.

gambhir · October 2001

i respect your comments--But the lexus sticker says 21/29 and what you quote is last years

I like the I35 also but can't get both

so everyone has personal priorities
I 30 engine was cvoted best engine for several years in a room--I think in quietness and comfort ES is better and hence more money too.

I do believe it is a quick car and one second goes by in a blink--I personally begin to notice a 0-60 diff only if it is 2+ or 3+

But hey we all should get what we like--i am sure Audi A4, CTS and X type and S60 would all have relative benefits--it is all what you like--i like quietness so Lexus is my favorite

By the way the second car I am eyeing is G35 which I think will be a success but that is another post

mmcbride1 · October 2001

Well, I'll take your word for the ES's mileage, but you were trying to short-change the I35's mileage at the very least. I couldn't find any 2002 ES300 EPA mileage, so I took last year's since the engine has not changed.

Hey, I've always said to get whatever you want. Just don't spread slanted 'facts' around.

And 1 sec. is a BIG difference. Look at sports cars. If your car can go 0-60 in 6 sec. flat, it's pretty fast. If it can do it in 5 sec flat, it's extremely fast. Lots of cars can do 6.0, very few can do 5.0.

lenscap · October 2001

0-60 times are all relative. So much of it depends upon feel and how you drive.

Also, speed numbers are proportional. One second 0-60 means less the slower the cars. There is a bigger difference proportionally 0-60 between 5 and 6 seconds than 7 and 8 seconds.

A car which goes 0-60 in 6 seconds is 20% slower than a car that does it in 5 seconds.

But a car which goes 0-60 in 8 seconds is only 14% slower than a car that does it in 7 seconds.

What one driver likes is obviously very subjective.

wabends · October 2001

Sorry to hear about your accident.

I was rear ended by an elderly lady driving a 99 ES300 at a traffic light a month ago. Her car suffered more damage because the radiator started leaking and the hood was totally warped. I didn't see her airbag deploy when this accident occurred.

Guess what, my 94 Mazda had no major problems except for some dents and a few rattling noise at the back (and I had my seat belt on). I can safely assume that it would cost at least 4X to repair her car as mine.

Regards,
Wabends

wheels4me · October 2001

how much would you expect to pay for a 1998 es300 w/
about 30,000 miles. they seem to have alot of
them on the lot.

gambhir · October 2001

I would pay around 17K personally given that 2000 can be had now for 25K, 2001 for 29K (new)

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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