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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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A reporter is trying to find consumers who've traded up from mass-market brands (e.g. Toyota, Chevy, Ford, etc.) to luxury nameplates. He says, "I'm not looking for lottery winners, just regular folks who wanted more car." If you have a story to share, please send it to me at jfallon@edmunds.com. It is helpful for you to include your e-mail, phone number and city/state of residence when you respond. Deadline for submission to this one is March 6. Thanks as always for your input!
Very best,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
Questions:
(1) should I try unleaded plus or premium?
(2) for most likely differences, should I try using the higher grade of gas around town or on the highway?
Thanks for any knowledgeable suggestions.
Al--
Chris
You certainly could try the mid-grade or premium but unless you took two identical trips you could not tell if it really made a difference in the miles-per-gallon. That is physically possible but hard to do. Road and temperature and other ingredients would just not be the same. If I had an ES300 I probably would use the mid-grade all of the time. It is cheaper than premium but yet better than the 87 regular. The 3.0 motor adjusts to the different grades of gasoline so one could find it extremely difficult to tell the difference in performance. Good luck if you decide to try and let us know concerning your "tests".
Now having perused all of the brochures and DVD on the new ES(the DVD doesn't cut it, and the brochure is a bit long on "lifestyle" and short on substance), I took my inaugural test drive at my local chicagoland dealer..... Here's my thoughts, and ultimately why I will not be purchasing:
> Very quiet and smooth
> Gauges are outstanding-very high-end
> Superior fit and finish
> Cup-holders fragile and ill-placed
> No room for junk-cell phone, etc- big minus IMO
>>> But here's the show stopper- Seats are way too small and adjustments are no help.
I have owned many, many cars over the years and I have learned my lesson on seat comfort. Once I sit in a car the very first time, it's yes or no immediately. The length is too short (I'm 6'2") and I couldn't even see the seat on either side of my butt. I am surprised that this issue has not come up on this string..... I walked across the showroom and sat in the GS300 and what a world of difference. Seats are perfect. Now I just have to re-think the money equation. I would be interested if any one else shares my opinion on the ES, which is otherwise a great car.
As for the other choices out there, the new I35 is a very nice freshening of the 2k I30, and yes, the seats are excellent. Only problem is the model's state of the union......it's looking like another complete re-do perhaps as soon as '03, or definitely by '04. That along with the intro of the G35 and underselling Q45, it just seems that infiniti hasn't cracked the code on dialing in the I35 as it stands today. Plus, say goodbye to any resale value. It garners no more than my Max. Still a very nice ride if you don't care about the market longevity.
A friend of mine owns a TL, and it's....okay... just doesn't get me that excited.
Again, I'm really disappointed on the ES seat issue, and I have to fight talking myself out of the purchase, but I know I'll be kicking myself on the first long drive. This actually might end up in my favor, as the dealer seems very interested in making a deal for the GS300. The only concern there is an impending redesign for late '03 as a '04 model. But I think the car has some timeless class to the current design.
I find the seat comfortable, and Lexus claims the front seat has an active suspension system. But everybody's different.
Personally, I would wait until the new GS comes out before purchasing it. Seeing the kind of luxury upgrades given to the '02 ES, I can only expect the same for the next GS. And buying the first year of the a new generation allows for your car to stay current for the next 5 years. The untrained eye won't be able to tell your '04 GS apart from an '08 GS, but would easily be able to tell apart the "old" '03 GS vs. the '04 GS.
On the other hand, the nice thing about Lexus designs is they don't ever look or feel "outdated" (except for the ES250). Even the '90 LS400 looks modern 12 years later. And the benefit of buying at the tail end of the current generation is that you can get a very good price (I could've gotten the GS for below invoice).
But for the GS, I would still wait because I feel Lexus will make significant upgrades to the interior. And you never know how the exterior will look until they introduce it.
I thought the 2000 LS400 had a somewhat smoother ride and was a bit quieter than the 2002 ES300. The price of a new loaded ES300 and the Certified LS400 is about the same.
How about some feedback from some of you out here that have a feel for both. How do you think the resale value of the two would stack up against each other after 2 years? If I go for the ES300 I would probably look at trading for a Certified LS430 in 2-3 years.
In which case, I would go for a certified 2000 ES300, save a bunch of money (when compared to a new 2002 ES300), and then trade-up to the LS430 in 2-3 years. Or maybe lease a new ES300, since it is only for a short period, and then buy the LS430, once the lease is up.
Later...AH
Does anyone know whether or not you can get a factory rear wing spoiler for the ES300?
Many thanks.
4. Mazda Millenia: I think that the Millenia is a good car, and to the uninformed, it does impress. It has the right luxury features, decent power, good handling, good fuel economy. The car doesn't feel particularly luxurious, feels on par with the Camry my wife currently drives, but we both liked the style of it. The price is also the cheapest. The dealer was willing to sell me at $27000 for a fully loaded Millenia S. Seems like a good deal, then I did alittle research since my visit to the dealer and learned that the car is an 8 year old design, that is being phased out of production. Bottomline: Millenia is retiring, and just can't compete with the others, a better option for someone considering a Camry or Accord alternative.
3. Infinit I35. My wife and I both liked the luxury features of the Infiniti, it had alot of things the others do not (heated steering wheel, 17-in wheels, spoiler). The car also had the biggest engine (which makes me worry about fuel economy), and is probably the fastest. Styling was also attractive. Pricing was decent (dealer would go around $33k loaded). Overall, the car gave a good impression, until we went next door to the Nissan dealer and saw the exact same car called the Maxima. Infiniti did not do enough to differentiate this car from the Maxima. Bottom-line: The I30 leaves a good first impression, but after awhile feels like a Maxima with a different grill and a few added luxury touches.
2. Acura TL. Probably the sportiest of the bunch, luxury seemed like it was kinda added to this sporty sedan. The quality seemed excellent and all the controls and switches had a comfortable familiar feel to them. The styling was attractive, but forgettable. The engine performance was very smooth and powerful. Pricing was decent ($30k loaded, however the dealer would not bargain). Again, as with the Infiniti...I get the impression that I'm driving a Honda product, the vehicle just didn't have the luxury feel that I would be paying for. Bottom-line: The top of the line Honda Accord.
1. Lexus ES300. Probably, the most attractive of the cars and the only one that did not feel like a nicer version of a midlevel sedan. The car just had a consistent luxury feel to it in the way it drove in the test drive, and the high quality of materials and leather. The car was not very sporty, but as a luxury car, I don't think it is supposed to be. The car also had all of the right luxury touches of the others combined into one car. I also thought that it is probably the largest and roomiest of all. Pricing is where things get alittle stickier, for all the good, you have to pay the price ($35k loaded dlr willing to budge alittle off the sticker). Bottom-line: Feels a class higher than the others, but at a price almost as high.
This week my wife has to do some major deciding, is the added luxury of the Lexus worth the price, or can she live with a more mid-level feeling sedan with luxury features tacked on such as the Acura. Stay tuned....
Other than the tranny, I had no issue with the car. I also did not hear the hiss in the Premium sound system that some had reported, so maybe they've fixed it (car manufactured in early January).
The seats did feel a bit small after two hours but still comfortable. And the color(s) really turned heads. It's baby blue in direct sunlight, turning silver in shade and soft silver in clouds. Very cool. Put a fresh coat of MacGuires (SP?)on it since the car was fresh out of the plastic wrap and it really shines -- great finish, unlike some of the finishes I noticed on the TL-S when I was shopping.
One thing I will say about Infiniti, when I bought mine in 99 one reason was because the I30 had a 4 yr 60k warranty, this was not true of the Maxima, and my experience with Infiniti service has been great, certainly several cuts above a Nissan dealer.
I hope that Lexus can match the level of service that I have gotten used to with Infiniti. Time will tell, only have 900 miles on the car and I love it.
Clark
Clark
I saw an earlier posting that said you don't really notice it until you need it, but the question is would you really ever need it much, or is it just an unnecessary and expensive option. I think it comes standard on the GS and SC, so you would think it is a worthwhile feature. I am ordering a 2002 ES300 with premium package and HID, but haven't decided on the VSC. Any help would be appreciated.
Good luck in your selection.
It was all moot anyway after the Mrs. drove the 2002 ES.
Will probably schedule the 5000 mile check up this week and get the recalls handled.
Contact is Don_Eichorst@ParkPlaceTexas.com...No, I have absolutely no business connection with this dealer, didn't know them at all before last week. Don is the internet sales rep...
I had been researching this car since October. Followed all the Edmunds postings. Did not want to pay sticker on this or any other car. I wanted best price possible and contacted all TX, LA, NM dealers via e mail... PPL came in at $2,000 below sticker, which is best price I think you will find outside of So Cal..
This is a very professional organization. No hassle or playing games. Did everything they said they would. Car was extremely well prepared. All went very smoothly. Drove it the 4 hours back home and am very pleased.
Drove the Infiniti I-35 for comparison. The Lexus excels at being a luxury car. Interior, features make you feel you are in a much more expensive vehicle. Great road car, quiet comfortable. Not a car you buy for performance.
I will keep you all posted on how it proceeds...
I started shopping for a new car since last September, and I have tested drive BMW 325, 525, X5 3.0, Infiniti I35, Lexus RX300, and the new ES300. I never wanted to test drive a Acura TL (or TL-S) because I still own a 02' RL which is really a nice car. My final decision is down to the new ES300 because it has the best combination of luxury, modern style, engineering, and quality. The I35 was close for the race, it has very nice V6 engine, but not quite reach the level of Lexus design, simple and luxury.
I live in the Bay Area of N. CA, and original I had a good deal with one of the Lexus dealer, but they screwed up the order, I was very upset about it, I even called up Lexus Corp to complain about it. I then start sending out price quotes to several S. CA Lexus dealers, Longo Lexus is the one who was willing to sell me the car with the price I was willing to pay for.
I ordered a Mystic Gold one with fully loaded model (NAV/ML, HID, heated seats, AVS, etc.) last November, and picked up the car at the dealer on 2/2/02. I paid over 3K off MSRP which I think it was really a good deal. To order the car at the right time with a good sales person is the key to get a good price, not sure whether they are still willing to sell it for that price though.
By the way, is there any of the new ES300 owners experiencing brake pedal noise when you step on the brake or release it? The noise was not very loud, but noticeable. It is like the end of the pedal is knocking something. My Acura RL has no noise at all. I checked with the dealer during my 1K checkup, and they said they double check with 2 other new ES, they all have the same noise, so they think it is normal. I am still not convinced.
Beside this little issue, I am really enjoying the car a lot.
First of all, I need to correct my mistake in my statement, I have a 00" RL, not a 02" RL. I cannot say TL is not a good car, I used to drive the last generation of 3.2TL, and then switched to the RL because the build quality of the RL is much, much better than the current TL if you are not so much care about the horse power, and the lease rate of the RL was very attractive.
When the new TL was out on the market the first year, I was disappointed because it lost what Acura used to have in their earlier models, luxury, build quality, and styling. The TL is just too much alike the Accord, IMO.
If Acura can build a near-entry luxury car so eye-catching like the ES300 and luxury feel, why would you pay extra money for the Lexus, right? Having two Acuras is not my concern, it is the Lexus build quality and design that win my final decision.
I live in Houston, btw. After I read the book, I went to see his dealer when I got the chance to go to Dallas with my fiance. Dallas is my favorite city in the world.
I am wondering whether it has something to do with the brake pedal mechanic assembly. If any of the dealers can fix the problem, I will let you know about the cause.
Thanks
Thanks for the post. Hope you're checking back. I was wondering where you live. I live in Houston and have started looking around. They all want sticker here. Just curious, because Houston is about 4 hours from Dallas. Just curious where all you looked.
I don't think Lexus will ever worry about the TL, unless Acura suddenly ups their brand prestige and injects more luxury into that car.
The G35 is a competitor to the IS300, and a very good one. The IS will have some catching up to do.
Also Phoenix and Las Vegas (could combine visit with purchase). I decided not to go to Los Angeles. Would require a trip out there and shipping/driving it back which will cost at least a thousand. Tack that on to a thousand over invoice (they will sell for that) and you have a comparable cost of 2k over invoice--which is what I got my Lexus for in Dallas.
I was a cash buyer. No trade in. But Park Place Lexus said they would have done the same deal if you finance. The deal will come if they have the car on the lot or are getting it in. Park Place was agressive on price from the first. They have the volume. Had 5 ES300s lined up for delivery just in the day I was up there.
Make your deal over the internet. Ask for VIN Number, copy of Lexus Invoice, showing optional equipment to be faxed to you. Statement of mileage. handwritten offer on the invoice, which you will sign as accepted and fax back.
I live in Austin-- a place you would never want to buy any car, much less a Lexus. No competition. I even went to Houston to buy a jeep.
If you are ready to do it, this is the way to go. But don't do it if you are in the "thinking about it" mode (too much work...) Good luck, hope this helps...
So far, the car is great. I love it so much more than my previous 1995 ES 300 (and I loved that one too).
I'll give more details later this week.
The new GS is due out next fall (2003), also as a 2004. In all likelihood there will be an all-wheel drive version.