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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
B
The Japenese are notorious for discouraging special orders.
I see your point, but on the other hand, it seems that it would be costly to set up for special orders and maybe limiting to popular packages helps keep the cost of the popular options down.
I know people who want cloth seats, and those are hard to come by, too.
Good luck with your car purchasing experience. I hope you get something you like.
I went to the dealership this morning for the 1000 mile service and told them about the transmission problems as well as the noises. They fixed the noise coming from the moonroof but not the passenger side door. I will be going back tomorrow to ride with the technician to reproduce the problem.
They also told me about a TSB regarding rattles underneath the chassis by the catalytic converters. If you are hearing any noises that seem to come from underneath the car, it is most likely caused by "loose clamps" as the tech put it.
In regards to the transmission problem, the service manager explained that the hesitation is caused by "drive-by-wire" technology used in 02 es300s. He says this problem is more prevalent in GS models and the reason for this is when you push the gas pedal, the computer needs to "calculate how much power" to send to the engine. The delay is apparently coming from the calculation process. Hopefully they can reprogram it to shift sooner.
Speaking of programming, is there a way to program the steering wheel buttons (mode and reset) to control the audio instead? Also, is it possible to fit the LS430 steering wheel on the es300? Audio controls really need to be on the steering wheel - especially on a 35K vehicle.
And no, the LS 430 wheel cannot be put on an ES 300. It has buttons that have no function in the ES.
I, too, wish the car had radio controls on the steering wheel, but that's just the way the car is (for now anyway).
I want a very dark black one and dealer can install a film?
Thanks in advance.
Any dealer can take a special order and place it in the system. Perhaps your dealer does not want to do it and is telling you this. But they most certainly can. In fact, special orders are not even done at the dealer level. I know beacuse my car was a special order. They originate at the regional zone office. The dealer simply sends the paperwork, but the regional zone office does all the work.
Also, there are more than just two cars (leather and loaded) that are being built. On my dealer's lot there are many variations. Some cars have TRAC, some do not. Some have HID lights, some do not. Some have the rear shade, some do not. And the ones that have some of these options are not all loaded.
Your dealer clearly just wants people to buy what he has on the lot or coming in, simple as that.
I assume you have an ES300; how do you like it? Positives, negatives?
Thanks again.
before you install yours, make sure the film darkness is within the legal limit. i was pulled over once by a cop just to check the window tint. he got a meater thing to clip on the window to check the darkness.
Oh, how about the 00 Lexus, do they have the same problem?
Those who are happy with their gas mileage seem not to have purchased their cars in California.
Of course, your state may require just as stringent an emissions package.
I understand that there are two known issues with 2002 model among some owners : 1). transmission problem 2). not enough acceleration. I guess they are not showstoppers, so I am now decided to get a Black Onyx ES300 with Premium Package.
There are only three dealerships in Seattle area, which makes price negotiation hard. I want to pay a fair price, meaning that I will pay the average of other buyers' selling price. Since every car comes in slightly different options, I'd like to negotiate from the invoice price.
Is $2500 over invoice a resonable price in Seattle area for a (premium package + HID and etc)?
If I can't get a decent deal, what are the steps involved in ordering from a different state and have the car shipped to my door? Overall, is it worth the trouble/saving? Thanks!
While the 02 ES is not usually compared in same class as Acura RL, recent 'desperate' lease deals from the RL camp result in pretty much the same offer from both, fully loaded. I recall from earlier postings where 'autos3' said he/she owns both rl and new es, am very interested to hear some of your comparative views on these two, should cost be identical.
Bear in mind I am definitely leasing (several reasons), so not too concerned about RV/MV after 39 months. Have driven both, was a little disappointed with RL (was a used 02) as supposed to be in lux category, have no experience with either dealership network. Happy with both shapes after ES started growing on me. Coming off a V8 Jeep GC lease so appreciate the ride on both es/rl. Wife got her 02 Odyssey recently but I too need enough space to get baby & stroller etc. in and out. Btw 3rd is RX300 and 4th is 2000 LS400. HELP!
To atoews: I believe California, Oregon, and Washington have same emission standards.
To ac2001: I came in at $1994 over invoice. Hope you can do better, let me know. I haven't got the car yet.
The owner had promised me a discount. When it came time to put that discount in writing he said he never offered a discount. He blatently lied to me. Fearing this might happen (I was surprised by the discount myself), I had kept detailed records of all phone calls and vists with the dealer.
When Lexus of Highland Park wouldn't budge I called Lexus Corporate. Since they cannot force a dealer to do anything, they arranged to have my ordered car transferred to Bredemann Lexus. And, they honored the discount.
I have several friends who have bought cars at Bredemann and love the dealer. Sales and service are both excellent. And they're tripling the size of the dealer (mostly in service, where there will be about 35 service bays). And I love the Saturday morning catered brunch.
After several months I still love the car also. My girlfriend's father has a 2001 BMW 740iL and even he admits that the interior on my car is much nicer (materials, quality, features, etc.), and his car was nearly double the cost of mine. This car is super smooth and vastly improved over my previous 1995 ES 300.
Before I write the big check, let me ask whether the following things about the ES300 bother you:
1) transmission glitches;
2) less than powerful acceleration
3) body roll
How would you compare these things to your earlier ES?
Thanks again.
The interior look of 02 ES is more luxury than the RL I have, it is also quieter. The steering wheel of the ES feels much better than the RL, the RL is overpowered. I also like the outside auto-dimming mirrors & rear power sunshade which RL does not offer. The Mark Levinson system is one step better than the Bose in the RL. And the Lexus dealer service is normally better than the Acura, but not always. The Lexus service will cost more if not covered by the warranty.
On the other hand, the RL has more rear seat space which is good for carrying baby in and out, I have been through those days (my son is now 5 years old.) so I can feel the need of the extra space. And the truck is much larger than the ES. The transmission of RL is smoother than the ES for now since my ES has only 5K miles on it. The exterior look of RL is more luxury than the ES IMO. But the ES feels more sporty. And since you are leasing the vehicle, the RL lease offer from Acura is probably hard to beat. By the way, I am also leasing the 00 RL, and if your are a loyal Honda owner, you can have some advantages for the lease.
I hope this would help your decision.
As for your questions:
1. I have noticed no transmission glitches at all. The car shifts much smoother than my 1995 ES 300.
2. I do not have a problem with the acceleration. The car is a little faster than my old car. Sure I wish it had more power, but it's not like I'd be racing all over the place anyway.
3. Again, the car has much less body roll in turns than my 1995. But, the car does not handle like a BMW 3-Series. However, as I've said my girlfriend's dad has a 2001 BMW 740iL. I've driven the car and there is nearly as much roll as my car. The 7-Series (at least the 2001) must not be as sports-oriented as other BMWs. In short, the body roll to me is not a problem as the car is well controlled.
Overall, I really can't say enough about the car. I really do love it. And I saw that sales of the ES 300 for April were over 6,000 units (tops among its competitors), meaning the car is clearly popular with buyers in this price range.
sliang, comments appreciated - its going to be a close call, probably based on how I'm treated by dealer(s) in final days.
Someone said (think on this board) they felt the higher dash and beltline, hence somewhat reduced external vision gave them a sense of "being surrounded by luxury" inside. Obviously a personal issue, but is this really a common perception? Clearly understand sedans wont offer SUV type vision, but have an issue with sportscar type seating. ES owners ok with their vision?
I test drove the ES300 some time ago, and I think one of the most extraordinary things about the car is its silence--incredibly quiet. I think Toyota/Lexus has really mastered the art/science of sound insulation. Even Consumer Reports says about the noise level, "world class."
I'm surprised at your observations about the BMW740i. I would expect real sports car handling.
Thanks again.
When I first ordered mine, (Feb 2002), the dealers told me that Lexus had stepped down production because of Sept 11 ramification fears. The Sept 11 issue did not result in the predicted lessening of demand, which did result in a shortage.
I would not be surprised if production is increasing again, with the associated price drop. Sam's Club predicted that the price might drop this spring.
Anyway, like lenscap, I love my car. Hope you and tiger8 love yours when you get them.
I haven't seen anyone in my area recommend any dealers yet, so I thought you might like to know what I found (since I KNOW there are probably people lurking on these boards in my area who are just too shy to type)!
I ended up buying from Wilkie Lexus in Haverford, PA. They gave me the best offer for the new car ($2000 off MSRP) AND the best offer for my trade-in ($400 over Blue Book). Wilmington (Delaware) Lexus wouldn't come within $400 of the offer made by Wilkie, even when I told them I'd buy it from them if they could match the price (and they even went so far as to say that Wilkie was "putting on over on me" because that price is "impossible")! Cherry Hill (NJ) Lexus was the worst - they took 3-4 days to return my emails (after the other dealers got back to me within 24 hours), and when they finally did call (even though I told them I preferred email) the message they left told me the MSRP and offered no discount of any kind! When I did call, they left me hold for 5 minutes, before I got tired of waiting and hung up. Cherry Hill obviously didn't seem in any hurry to make a deal.
The other dealers in my area (I visited 6 in all) all were in the middle. They gave a some discounts, but wanted me to bow down and kiss their feet for it because they're "Lexus" and "we don't do that." I laugh at that thinking! Just because someone has the money to afford a luxury car doesn't mean he wants to waste it and pay MSRP! How do they think we got to have money in the first place?!? Not by paying full price for everything!!
Anyway, I should point out that after Wilkie Lexus gave me the great deal, I didn't hear the end of it. They kept telling me how their own wives don't get that much off on the car, and so on.
What I found interesting was how they handled the trade-in (which I haven't seen much talk of on these boards). Wilmington Lexus had two guys go outside and look at it from EVERY angle in the sunlight, scrutinizing every small dent and detail, and then took it for a test drive. Then they looked at it some more. Then they came inside and told me I had $500 of body damage, due to a few scratches, so they offered me $600(!) below Blue Book for it. And when I told them about my 4 BRAND NEW tires, they guy laughed and said "Well of COURSE it has to have tires! We can't give you anything for that!" By contrast, Wilkie (in Haverford, PA), just sent out one guy to basically glance at the car for 30 seconds and then come back inside and they offered me $400 OVER Blue Book. The other dealers tended to be more like the more extreme Wilmington example. Which is what I liked so much about Wilkie. The whole process of getting a quote took 15 minutes total, while every other dealer kept me in there for 1-1.5 HOURS!
Anyway, if you're in the PA/DE/NJ/MD area don't be afraid to drive around a little if you want to save yourself $1000. Not bad for an afternoon's drive...
OH, and one more thing. I've read all about the various transmission/accelleration/noise problems people have been having on these boards, and I can say that so far (after 50+ miles) I've experienced NONE of these problems. This car runs like a dream and when I hit the gas is very responsive! I got exactly what I bargained for!
...now I just have to get through reading the 500 oages of manuals that came with the car!
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/headlines.html?NEWS
They listed all the data for Toyota on the May 1 Automotive Headlines.
I got my Lexus ES in October
Mild --and I mean non-trivial observation when the car goes below 50, it downshifts slightly strongly but it runs so smoothly it is not a problem
Regarding, acceleration, it is faster than my 2000 which I had before
Very quiet and definitely a great package--the sound system is great
Other gripe was mileage--it seems after two servicings--1000 and 5000, it seems to have improved-doe snot give ever more than 26 , so do not expect 29
Overall a happy owner--I am considering buying ES as mys econd car as well--hoping in a yr or two a coach edition will come out with 3.3L engine
I would say IMHO--you will be a happy owner
First of all, thanks to everyone here.
I printed several pages here and negotiated price with the dealer based on prices you guys posted here.
And I knocked down $2500 off the tag, here in Columbus, Ohio.
I got the Premium Package and Chrome Wheel (no use, but it happens to come with the dark red color I like.)
I think it is a good deal.
By the way I bought a Toshiba 65 inch projector use the same method and kicked $750 off.
I put 3000 miles on this baby now. Overall I am happy with it, or I should say if I can get the key from my wife.
Most of the time, I drive my 2000 Honda Accord V6. Weekend I drive this ES300. Sometimes this ES300 feel too soft compare to this Honda. I don't think it is a bad thing, but I don't like this too much.
Also, no audio control on the wheel really piss me off. I am so use to it with my Honda, I like switch stations all the time.
The biggest noticeable luxury is quietness.
That’ all I have to share now.
Thanks, again.
XU
Lexus should not do this to Lexus buyers, we will get upset.
Actually I think Lexus has been trying to design the 02 ES so that it won't be too much alike the Camry. Remember they shared the same platform & engine.
The only way you can be confused by these two cars is from the front of the vehicle, but even the shape of the head lights and the grill have noticeable differences to distinguish them from each other.
If you look at these two from the side or the rear, they look very different, IMHO.
The interior of the ES is a totally different design and quality than the Camry, much much better than the Camry.
I won't feel upset at all as a 02' ES owner.
I picked up my 2002 ES300 two weeks ago from Lexus of Westport in CT. The car has all options except the Nav. package (therefore no Mark Levison sound) and the sunshade. I paid $33,300+tax. There is no documentation fee. The dealer is nice to deal with.
If this sounds like something you are interested in, let me know so I can give you the saleman's name.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
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