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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
Jerky gears, suspension spoil posh new Lexus
Quotes:
"A five-speed automatic transmission, upgraded from the 2001's four-speed, was supposed to slip among gears invisibly. Instead, the shifts were too obvious and sometimes marred by brief stutters before the gearbox found its legs and engaged confidently. Lexus once set the standard for automatics that shifted both smoothly and crisply. If the ES test car was representative, that's past tense.
An optional, adjustable suspension was supposed to let the driver dial up comfy or sporty or in-between behavior using a four-position knob on the console. The normal setting seemed pleasant, but allowed too much body lean when the car was driven enthusiastically. There's one setting softer than normal, and it seemed a waste unless occupants were used to riding in numb and soggy machines. The sportiest setting, two notches stiffer than normal, gave snappy handling, all right. But the car jiggled and shuddered constantly; hardly a luxury feel. One notch down muted the jiggliness, retained most of the sporty response, but sacrificed the smooth ride. No setting was an ideal choice."
A friend looking at an ES300 who has been in an SC300 for a while noticed the transmission problem with her test drive. She decided against the car because of this and a lack of brisk acceleration. Good luck in getting the transmission to work better, maybe someone could mail Lexus some of the professional statements about the transmission. (Guess what my friend is getting, Neuroguy :-)) Seriously though, I hope Lexus can get a fix because it is a nice car.
I suppose that on the first test drive, it is not obvious that virtually all controls are available manually, as redundant options to using the Nav display. And I think it is just fine that the CD changer is in the console. My boyfriend's 1994 SC300 CD changer was in the trunk, and the ES300 implementation in the console provides a significant improvement.
As for the transmission, I am glad that reviewers are complaining publically. My fingers are crossed for a fix.
1. Several complaints (she calls them "comments") regarding the transmission has been logged.
2. Techs in japan are working on the issue.
The second is probably BS because she initially said she was not aware of a fix but 3 minutes later she recanted.
My feeling is no fix is in the works. This may be more than just a firmware update and Lexus cannot afford (or does not want to pay) to recall a few thousand cars.
Since I had just applied Zaino to my car, I asked that they not wash it. My request was on the "order" form. But when I picked up my car that evening it had been washed.
I called the service manager to tell him about the miscommunication the next day and he was very apologetic, saying everyone was partially to blame. This included the service woman who wrote me up because she should have checked to make sure the car was not washed. He said he would follow up on what happened to make sure there was no miscommunication in the future.
The conversation was very pleasant, and I never asked for anything. So, imagine my surprise when the service manager said my 7500 mile service would be free.
I rarely use the Nav and didn't want to be annoyed with that when I only use the audio portion of the system.
I'm not sure if any of the above was set in 'display' or 'info' but it can be done.
KREATIV: Yes, I to have the Mark Levinson audio system but I would assume that is only the speakers and amp, not the actual changer as the standard 6-disk changer system would be the same as that for ML. I will investigate obtaining an extra cartridge as you suggested.
Smooth sailing every mile!
M. J. McCloskey
As for the ES300's tranny problem, I asked about it at my dealer's service dept. here - Hendrick Lexus (who have been nothing but *great*!) - and the last they told me it's a "known issue" and that Lexus is working on a software upgrade due sometime in September. Fortunately, I have not experienced it with my car.
Like the ES300's transmission, journalists also took notice of Jaguars problems - and now their fixes:
"Jaguar's sterling quality reputation, the result of a decade of hard work, took hits late last year when the all-new X-Type compact sedan drew complaints about vibrating propulsion shafts, rocking seats and temperamental trunk latches -- all of them now fixed."
It's too bad you had to suffer through all of those problems way back when they had them though. Oh well, you got another great car in the end. I hope you don't get any of the known problems with your ES300 now - that would just be dreadful. Take care, and I'll tell my friend that my other friend on the internet wishes her good luck with her car when she gets it!
Atoews-
If there is anything a reviewer will always complain about, it is that they are too lazy to figure out how to properly use the navigation system and then they'll denounce the system as "too hard to use". They've said it about almost every nav system reviewed. Heck, even Jaguar's voice controls are too hard for them most of the time: "What, so you just speak to the car and it does it for you!? But then my jaw will get too tired, and my brain will get tired thinking of what to say. That's way too difficult to use!"
He probably also didn't spend a terribly long amount of time with the ES to really test out the AVS, but he still had enough time to discover that the transmission doesn't seem to work quite right. Someone really should gather up all of the professional as well as owner comments about the lagging transmission and get Lexus' attention about it. Jaguar got all the bugs out of every X-TYPE within a matter of months (especially as the media had gotten involved a bit as you can see above), Lexus should be able to fix the ES300's transmission in no time. They might just need a little pushing in their Passionate Pursuit of Perfection. Good luck to you with your tranny, and I hope the review helps out if someone decides to do something.
It's doubtful that the ML CD Changer uses the same Pioneer CD Changer found in the standard "premium audio system" (for cars that have NAV w/o the ML upgrade). The ML system should have a higher quality CD reader (better DAC, higher S/N ratio, etc.) to match the higher quality amp/speakers. It doesn't mean they don't use the same cartridge though, or share cartridges with other CD changers! I haven't seen the CD changers in the two different system (I have the in-dash pioneer), so I'm not speaking from any hands-on experience.
"I just received information from the dealership that a software upgrade will be out in October. The upgrade is said to correct the hesitation problem. The shift pattern will also be affected."
http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Windom/menu/frame/op.html
Too bad we don't have such options here in the US.
bartalk2 - I have an '02 ES, and can try to find out which dealer he was talking about. (quote = not my own words)
It appears as though the front bumper will have to be replaced and the left front panel above the wheel. The most damage occurred to the bumper, with the left panel dented and scraped where it joined with the bumper. No damage to the wheel or headlight.
My spirits will be lifted if someone would say that it is possible for a seamless repair to occur. I suspect that the entire bumper/panel will be replaced, but will the paint match well enough to conceal the difference between the new parts and the rest of the car? My car is 5 months old and subject to lots of UV rays. I have about 5 coats of Zaino on it.
I am soooo depressed. :-(
With 5 coats of zaino on a 5 month old car, you won't be able to tell of any fading of the paint due to UV rays.
Since the car is so new, you should get factory-new part replacements. And be glad the only parts affected are easily replaceable plastic parts. People change perfectly good bumpers out all the time for sportier looking ones. If I can get the body kit I mentioned above, that's what I'd be doing too.
Oh yes, and if you had the holes drilled in your front bumper for the license plate bracket and don't like it, here's your chance to tell them to leave it off and not drill the holes in your new bumper. Not that I advocate not having a front license plate in CA...
My advice would be to find a shop like this in your area. Over the years I used a few others before finding Amatos. It was a crap shoot to whether the paint would be a seamless match and blend. And when push comes to shove, and we have told "the perps" insurance co that we insist on using Amato's they have always (eventually) conceeded to our demands.
sddl(j)w Thanks for the tips, too, on Amatos. You gave me several in addition to specifics on Amatos: one, ask a dealer for a recommendation, two consider whether something needs to be masked off and ask body shop if they mask or don't mask, and three, look for high end cars at the body shop.
bartalk2 - It does not look like there is any structural damage. Thanks for your caution that I should look for structural damage.
kreativ - thanks for the advice about the holes. It provides an upside to the situation.
I had a friend of a friend who bought a brand new 2002 X5 and was driving the car to show to another friend when she got rear ended by a careless driver. She wasn't hurt but she's only had the car for about 18 hours. Talk about a bummer.
calling up the dealership regarding the update, they are not aware of any software update. They did say that they normally do not know about updates far in advance so it could very well be true. I hope it's true and not just a story the other dealership concocted so customers stop bothering them about the transmission.
Not to be cynical but think about it though. If there was an update to the transmission, wouldn't Lexus Customer Service have the official word?
I am crossing my fingers.
Sure, there may be a shop that works on Ferraris. But if they aren't Lexus certified I wouldn't go there.
Also, make sure you specify only genuine Lexus parts. The insurance company may say it is cheaper to use imitation parts, or used parts from a scrapyard, but insist on only original parts (especially body panels to ensure a proper fit). Note the insurance company may try and fight this.
One final item: The insurance company may say the body shop you request is too expensive and ask for a second or third quote. Check your state law. Many states, by law, do not require any more than one cost estimate no matter how high the insurance company thinks it is.
Stand your ground. And don't worry, the car should come out of this just fine.
The only ES 300 change is the new option of power adjustable pedals (which I believe were originally supposed to be offered in January 2002).
Price goes up to $31,625, or 0.4%.
By the way, the Navigator test drive was part of an event I was invited to last month. I have no interest in buying one, but was curious to check it out. The pedals actually did not work correctly, as only the gas pedal moved while the brake pedal did not. They were supposed to work in tandem.
This Navigator had many other things that did not work, including: interior light that never went off, faulty rear sensor (the instructor was showing off the feature and we smacked into a garbage can), door trim that had fallen off, power rear hatch that malfunctioned and power running boards that got stuck and made a grinding noise. And this vehicle had 2000 miles and cost $60,000.
The service manager said that the ES300 problem is not much different from that present in the LS and GS models when Lexus introduced the technology into those models several years ago (1998 for GS). According to the dealer, both of these transmissions behaved similarly to the way the ES300 tranny is now, but Lexus made several upgrades along the way. The service manager observed that he can tell when he gets a 1998 GS for service that has not had the transmission upgrades. Although he did not mention knowledge of planned tranny updates for ES300, he said he was fairly certain there would be upgrades, just as there were for the LS and GS, until the kinks in the new design are worked out.
This affirms some complaints I have seen on older posts on the LS boards, where owners cited symptoms similar to ours.
I compared the responses from four body shops: one, a local body shop with a good reputation but not Lexus certified, one Lexus certified body shop located on the premisis of and owned by a Lexus dealer, two Lexus certified body shops referred by Lexus dealers. The overall results were:
1) All body shop managers agreed that the most important feature was the body shop provide a written guarantee for their work over the life of the vehicle. This guarantee serves to insure they do the work right the first time. They don't like doing it over again - especially for free.
2) None of the body shop manages seemed to think that Lexus certification is important. A good technician is a good technician, regardless of the car they work on. Some managers said that certification would buy some efficiency, but that was about it.
I think I disagree with that. If you as a potential customer know nothing about a body shop, at least you know that if it is Lexus certified, they invested in the three years of training for its technicians. So, despite what all of these managers told me, I think I would still give "points" to a certified shop over an uncertified one, all other aspects being equal.
3) One manager told me that the potential shop should be willing to give you a tour through their shop, allowing you to observe their work and the vehicles they repair.
4) Two of the four of these managers claimed that they do not mask. The other two said that EVERYONE has to mask, and that if they claimed not to, the question was either out of context or they were just plain lying. The issue is not so much whether they mask under certain circumstances, but whether they dissemble the trim, remove door handles and glass, etc. as prep for a paint job. All body shops that interviewed claimed they disassembled the vehicle trim/door handles/glass etc. as opposed to masking.
5) All three of the Lexus certified shop managers told me that they were in no way PART of Lexus. They were/are all shops that individual Lexus dealers recommend and/or procure body work from. One body shop is actually owned by the same people who own the local Lexus Dealer, the local Toyota Dealer and the local Honda dealer.
In the end, I chose to drive 150 miles to have the car repaired, but only because I was also due for my 5000 mile service. I chose the dealer where I purchased my vehicle, because I need to have some upholstery repaired under warranty and the original dealer already identified the problem and is familiar with it. My original dealer also happens to be the dealer who also owns the body shop, which is Lexus certified. The original dealer's body shop manager also bragged that they use Glasurit paint. The others use PPG, by Dupont.
After touring their shop yesterday, and seeing all of the BMWs and LS vehicles in various stages of repair, I only have one fear. That the Glasurit paint will cause the repaired parts of my car to look BETTER than the original!!!! Wonder if the body shop people ever thought of that - that maybe a cleaper paint would be better if it made the work goes better with the original car's paint job!!!
Anyway, after all my research, I would probably not drive 150 miles becaue of Lexus certification. The worst part about the 150 miles is that it means a 300 mile trip in a low end rental vehicle, missing my ES300 the whole time. I guess the upside is that after driving the rental vehicle around town and back to LA, I will certainly appreciate my ES300 all the more, regardless of what happens with the body work. Anyway, my fingers are crossed.
Thanks for your input. Despite having the AC or the defrost with the AC, the windows still fog up on the OUTSIDE. Not only is this very annoying, it reduces my vision. And this fogging problem happens at any time of the day, not limited to the morning. This happens regardless of the AC temperature setting. This problem occurs only with this car and not with my other cars. The service guy says this is normal but I refused to accept this, as this problem is excessive with this car.
BTW, have any of you 2K+2 owners changed your own oil/filter? I used to do so on my Solara and it was a snap but rather messy when removing the filter as the oil would run down the side of the engine and onto other components. I noticed the ES300 has a kind of tray attached below the filter that would direct any dripping away from the engine. If so, this would make the effort far more tidy. I do have a cup-type filter wrench and extensions to reach and remove the filter. I know some may think that since spending nearly 37K for a car one should be able to afford to have it changed. The point is I know I will do it right, plus save the time of going to the dealer and waiting far longer than it would take me to change it.
Hope all is well with all and their ES300's - I know all is well with me and mine!
M. J. McCloskey
Don't know what else to tell you. I have noticed if I take my finger over the glass it smears more than on other cars, maybe a film from manufacturing or shipping. This is a wild thought and may not work or make it worse. But, you might try cleaning the window with some product that would cut through the film. Maybe lighter fluid or Bug and Tar remover. Then thoroughly wash the car and window and windex good to get to the clean glass. Sometimes just cracking a window helps. Another thought revolves around my 98 Windstar which has done the same thing on occasion. I have had good results by bringing the temp up a little in the van so cold air is not going onto the window. Since this has been a very humid summer in the midwest, I thought maybe there was just to much temperature and/or humidity differential between the inside and outside. Just some thoughts.
"...the transmission is sometimes slow to downshift for passing."
For each car they test they list the pros and cons. For this car there are only two cons, one of which: "automatic-transmission performance."
Sound familiar?
Maybe we've got a generic Lexus transmission problem that includes the LS430 as well as the ES300. What do you think?
Am I bothered? I am bothered that the lower (class?) priced Camry has a better transmission than the ES. (Everyone who is familiar with my posts saw that one coming.)
Before I decided to buy the ES, I've already accepted that it's just a Camry in Armani. But the Camry isn't bad to begin with so it makes the ES close to perfection.
whotheman