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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

15859616364105

Comments

  • bartalk2bartalk2 Member Posts: 326
    Yes, some Toyota owners who changed oil every 3,000-5,000 miles developed sludge problems. Toyota still tried to pin the blame on the owners, but it backfired, they had growing PR problems, and Toyota finally agreed to repair all sludge-related problems free for 8 years or so. I recall reading that they modified the V-6 engine after April of this year, so there should be no problems in those engines manufactured after that date.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The ES 300 posted the all-time best monthly sales in its history last month. 7,767 cars were sold in August, making the 2002 calendar year total 49,166 (66,206 since the car came out last October 1).

    The ES 300 sales record for a calendar year was 1997, when 58,430 cars were sold. It looks like that record will be shattered by the time the end of 2002 rolls around.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I sure don't want to see an ES300 on every corner. :-(
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Sales are a fine line. I agree with you, I would not want to see an ES 300 on every block. But I'm glad to see the car doing well.

    Once you get into the $30,000+ price territory you don't see huge volume sellers. While the ES' August sales of 7,700 are a lot for this car, it pales in comparison to the whopping 48,000 Accords also sold in August.

    It's just nice to know that others beside myself appreciate what the ES 300 has to offer compared to the competition and bought one.
  • rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    Haven't really done anything lately regarding the car. I'll just wait until my 7500 service later this month and see what the dealership can do for me. I might try to sell the car next year if they have not solved the problem by april 2003.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    In cased you missed it, see greggba's discussion, msg 2982. Greggba seems to have a transmission that behaves outside the norm. In other words, he perceives the transmission on the car he OWNS as dangerous, whereas that on the loaner that he test drove is merely annoying. You might want to make sure to get an 02 ES300 loaner so you can do a similar comparision.

    You might decide that the "normal" transmission problem is acceptable, but if your car is behaving outside the norm, a new transmission might be less expensive than what you would lose by selling your car. If you can demonstrate to your dealer that your car indeed behaves in a worse than normal way, you might get a transmission replacement under warranty.

    Good luck. I am rooting for you and your lovely Blue Onyx vehicle.
  • esswebessweb Member Posts: 51
    I first noticed MB C320 is offering dealer cash of $3000 for its 2002 models. I checked carsdirect.com, and find out in some area, such as California, it is offering $3000 off MSRP price. In Michigan, it is still showing MSRP.

    Then I check on the ES 300, which sales in Michigan for MSRP, for maybe the same reason, selling only $300 over invoice in CA.

    Is it the competition? has anyone in the Michigan area bought ES300 near invoice? I think for $3k, it is worth it to buy it in California and drive it back.
  • rtorrecartorreca Member Posts: 74
    Actually, I did the comparison during my 1000 mile service and found it to "feel" the same as my car. It wasn't as detailed as greggba's but just looking for the shuddering. It was definitely there but left me wondering why I didn't feel it from my test drive prior to purchase.

    When I find the time, I will take another test drive and make a more detailed comparison.
  • bruindocbruindoc Member Posts: 1
    Just bought a Silver with black interior 2002 with navigation and all options for 35,232

    They are offering great deals rite now in Los Angeles!
  • esswebessweb Member Posts: 51
    Anybody in the Detorit/Chicago/Ohio area purchase the vehicle near invoice?
  • raddboy41raddboy41 Member Posts: 249
    The local Toyota dealership was recently declared a Lexus certified service center since the nearest Lexus dealer is about 30 miles away. I received two advertisements in the mail from them, one for my Toyota and one for my Lexus. The Lexus flyer said that they will change the timing belt on my ES300 for only $299! The Toyota flyer said they will change the timing belt on a Camry V6 for $199!! I went down and spoke to the service manager.
    Me - You know, the ES300 and the Camry V6 have the same engine!
    Him - Pretty much, but the Lexus is a little different.
    Me - Really, how so?
    Him - Well, the Lexus is a little more intricate and will require more labor hours to replace the timing belt, not to mention that it requires a Lexus specific timing belt!
    Me - Bullsh1t! The timing belt is the SAME and the belt replacement procedures from the service manuals are IDENTICAL.
    Him - Do you need the free loaner vehicle?
    Me - Nope.
    Him - Do you want your Lexus washed and detailed afterwards?
    Me - Nope.
    Him - I'll knock a few dollars off of the price for you.

    And there you have it! The difference between Lexus service and Toyota service. The fluff!
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Now we all know why there is so much distrust in the new car industry. They tell lies and we are supposed to trust what they say. Unfortunately, as good as Lexus is, there is truth that you do pay more for their service and parts. I will not get into a discussion here is if it worth it or not. How much difference is there between a Toyota XLE V-6 and the ES300? Is the ES300 worth approx. $5000 more than the Camry? It would be nice if someone could tear the vehicles apart and really see. Each one of us has to make the decision between those two vehicles. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult for us to differentiate between the two. I guess the bottom line here is we all need to make as informed decision as we can with the information that is available to us. I strongly suggest that if one finds an honest dealer then stick with him and pass the word around. I certainly would pay more to buy from an honest salesman and dealership than a dishonest one.
  • rdlxmplsrdlxmpls Member Posts: 1
    I replaced my wife's 99 ES300 in Jan. for a 2002 ES300. The demo drove like a dream. The one we got is something else. The steering has pulled to the left since the day we got it from the dealer. It is in the shop today for the fifth time. Tires have been switched from L to R, been realigned twice. They are putting on new tire today - which I don't think will correct the problem. This "pulling" exaggerates an already excessively "quick" steering ratio that requires one to constantly "drive" the car on the highway vs. directing it down the road. This is not supposed to be a sports car! Why the quick ratio? It is remindful of driving a WWII Jeep. According to the service mgr., this is not a unique problem to this car.

    Another major problem is the transmission. This also has existed from day one. This apparently also is not unique to this car. Shifting between 1st & 2nd gears is sloppy - both up & down. Between 40 & 70 mph, it shutters when you let up on the accelerator. When accelerating over 30 mph, you feel little jerking motions like the torque converter is not locking up, or is searching for another gear. The service mgr. says that he has word from the Lexus factory that they are working on this problem with a modified transmission computer program that they hope to have ready in Nov. 2002. However they have to get EPA approval before they can make the actual modifications. A by-product of this current aggravation is, I believe, a reduced mileage performance significantly below the stated Lexus EPA levels.

    I also have experienced some skid control problems with the SCD in the winter when on ice. I get an unusual sensation of wheel spinning that I have never had in my 50 years of driving on Minnesota winter roads. Works great in the summer however!

    Other than these problems, I love the car. It's just a matter of how much patience I can sustain until they get the problems worked out. Right now - I am on the edge of having them replace the car.
  • gekko2gekko2 Member Posts: 87
    I have all of the service of my 95 ES300 done at my local Toyota Dealer. I do this because everything is cheaper vs. the Lexus dealer. The Toyota dealer is happy to service my ES and they want all the business they can get from me. They have done all of the service to 100k miles. However, when it was time for the timing belt change, Toyota told me that they could NOT do it. They said that the Camry and the ES300 do have some engine differences and that I would have to take it to the Lexus dealer because Toyota dealer did not have some of the parts/equipment needed to do the job. So bottom line, I think the dealer is giving you a straight story as far as the fact that there are differences. Whether or not it should cost more at the SAME dealer is a wholly different story.
  • esswebessweb Member Posts: 51
    For those who have driven both (hopefully more than just test drive). In term of noise level, are they much different at all?
  • lexloothalexlootha Member Posts: 12
    My dealer charges approximately $60 for 1/2 hour of labor (Dallas/Ft. Worth area). Dealer service has gotten to be ridiculous.
  • cwdavis1cwdavis1 Member Posts: 31
    After having driven 1,000 miles, the only real tranny issues I have deal with stop and go traffic which in LA is frequent. I find that the car jerks in stop and go traffic--doing 2-3 miles then 10 etc. It is aggravating but other than that, I too love this car. It is a real joy to drive and so luxurious. But for $35K, I would expect the tranny to be seamless--both up and down. This needs to be corrected and when I go in for my belated 1,000 mile service, I will let my dealer know. Sounds like this is common with most if not all 2002 ES owners.
  • sddlwsddlw Member Posts: 361
    I've got a 2000 ES with 30K on it. Lexus Carlsbad, CA wanted $500 for a 30K service! The Toyota dealer next door will it for $279.

    A couple of months ago my front brake rotors warped. 27k miles and only 50% of the original brake pads used up. The dealer would not consider trying to work this up as a warranty issue and wanted $300 to turn the rotors and put in new pads. I performance tire shop I use did the same job for $125.

    But you get a loaner and a car wash!

    Absolutely ridiculous. Fact is that most if not all dealers make more money in the shop than they do on the lot. And some of them are getting greedy.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    In the case of true intrinsic value, the ES300 is probably not worth $5000 more than a Camry XLE...but no one said anyone had to buy into the "status and exclusivity" of the Lexus, it is voluntary...is an Acura TL worth that much more than an Accord???...to those that buy the TL, yes, to those that say "I'll save $5K and buy an Accord," no, it isn't...all they did was do the same thing that Ford and GM did when they created Lincoln (a fancy Crown Vic, or Ford Galaxie, if you are old enough to remember) and Cadillac (a luxury version of a full size Buick or Chevrolet), except that the Japanese did it better than we did, and apparently make more money at it...also, the Japanese attract buyers in their 30s and 40s for their upscale vehicles, ensuring them a market for many years...Lincoln and Caddy buyers have an average age, I believe, in the 60s...demographics for the USA Big 3 do not look promising over the next 30 years like it does for the imports...just my thinking, of course...
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Thanks for your input. The information you provided is true. I guess the same thing could be said about any major purchase. There are cheaper ones and more expensive ones.
    I happened to notice that you are interested in the 2003 RL. What, if any, changes are on the 2003 vs. the 2002? I see that one can get an RL for about $35K and that is approx. the price of the ES300. How do you see the ES300 vs. the RL?
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    Someone posted, way back, that they were driving in 4th gear sometimes. For fast speed-up getting on a freeway, my dealer advised using 3rd gear. I've been doing that for the last few weeks, and then I shift to 4th, and sometimes stay in 4th for a stretch, usually not more than 10 miles. I'm wondering if anyone has any information about whether staying in 4th is okay for the car or if it's harmful. Thanks.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    hk2la - Long time no see.
    No need to leave it in 4th after you've gotten onto the freeway and am cruising. If you're planning on going 75mph+ on the 405 for a long stretch, you wouldn't want to stay in 4th gear as it's harder on your engine (not to mention the worse gas mileage you'll get by not using 5th gear). But for around town driving, having the shifter on "4" is perfectly fine.
    With the new 5-speed transmission, the 4th and 5th gears essentially become overdrive gears. Going down a hill, I have to switch to 3rd if I want any effective engine braking.
  • r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    Any one heard when Lexus will fix the transmission delay problem?
  • bshengbsheng Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone know how to change the A/C (cabin) filter on an 2000 Lexus ES 300? Or where it is located. Thanks.
  • kelnshekelnshe Member Posts: 7
    I have a 1998 ES 300 with a little more than 61000 miles. I'd like to get my 60000 maintenance at the dealership where I bought the car (and I have a good relationship with them). They want $520 + tax, but a well-respected Toyota dealership wants $410 for the same maintenance for a 1998 Camry. I've gotten all my other maintenance done (other than oil changes) at the dealership. Is it worth paying the extra $100 at the Lexus dealership?
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    Hello,
    I am considering a new ES300. What is the best prices people have gotten when purachasing new. If you purchased the Nav system better yet (thats what I am considering for as a consultant, I travel to many new places in a week), Thanks in Advance!

    Mike V.
  • trinbagotrinbago Member Posts: 6
    are located. Out west, folks have been getting around invoice, in the north east we are still around the 36k figure (NAV, etc). If you are in the north east I can refer you to get great deal.
  • socaldude1socaldude1 Member Posts: 2
    Hey Everyone,
    New to the forum - great info here!

    Looking to buy a new 2003 ES300 in the next week or so. Have been shopping around a bit here in the Southern California area. The best deal I've found is:

    2003 ES300
    Premium Package
    * Leather Trim Interior
    * Lexus Memory System for power driver's seat and outside rearview mirrors
    * In-dash 6-disc CD changer
    Additional Factory Options:
    * High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps
    * Wood & Leather Steering Wheel and shift knob
    * Cargo Net
    * Trunk Mat
    * Wheel Locks
    MSRP $35,521

    for a price of $33160 plus tax and license.

    Is this a "great" deal?
    Have people gotten better deals and if yes please share!
  • trinbagotrinbago Member Posts: 6
    your profile to include your email address, will send you some helpful info
  • r1_97r1_97 Member Posts: 181
    Why is it taking so long for Lexus to fix the lagging transmission problem? I'd buy an ES if it had a decent transmission.
  • amalikamalik Member Posts: 2
    My experience is to avoid Lexus dealership for service as much as you can. I had my es300 timing belt changed at Toyota dealership for $230, including parts & labor. Which was the same charge as a camry. At Lexus, it was going to be $550 + parts.
  • amalikamalik Member Posts: 2
    I have a 1996 ES300. My passenger side turn signal started to flicker at twice the speed recently. I have replaced the bulbs, but it did not change anything. I have looked for fuses and relays, but can't find anything wrong. Does anyone have any suggestions. thanks.
  • stuckwistuckwi Member Posts: 1
    Trinbago,
    I would also like to puchase an ES300 soon. would you please email me some info?
    stuckwi@yahoo.com
    Thanks
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I read Edmund's just-posted review of the ES 300. They seem to really like the car (as long as the buyer is looking for a luxury car and not a four door Corvette).

    Although they say the interior is like that of a $70,000 car, they have a few bugaboos. Two of them I disagree with:

    1. They do not like the fact the front headrests do not articulate. I thought they do, but from the bottom instead of the top. Edmunds may have made a mistake on this one.

    2. They wished the car had an exposed, open storage bin. I'm glad it doesn't! To me, those are so cheap looking.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Edmunds did mention the transmission complaints in their review:
    "Owners of the redesigned ES 300 have complained long and loud about the transmission. During our testing, we found when driving normally the five-speed automatic shifted imperceptibly. But when exercising the car or driving aggressively, the slushbox responded with harsh upshifts and soggy, delayed downshifts, behaving as though it were utterly confused about what the driver wanted it to do."
  • mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Glad to see a full road test/review on our ES300. Overall I agree with it, although the tranny issue has not been that apparent in my vehicle. I recently bought a used '99 Ford Ranger truck to supplement the ES300 and I can't wait to drive the ES300 tomorrow!

    As the article stated, the interior is exquisite and I have yet to see an interior of a car (except the Maybach) that equals the simple elegance of the ES300.

    LENSCAP - you are correct - the headrests do articulate; they swing out at the bottom to cradle the lower portion of your cranium. I actually prefered the ones on my Solara as they tilted from the top and provided better support.

    Anyway, it sounds as thought the car hit the mark even though the transmission is a bit cranky.

    Regards -

    M. J. McCloskey
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    As some of you may recall, my 02 ES300 was hit in the parking lot of my work place about three weeks ago. I just picked my repaired car up from the body shop, and boy, was my drive from LA to Ridgecrest nice. I have had a Pontiac Sunbird rental, which really made me appreciate my car, "bad" transmission and all!

    During the same period that my body work was being done, I had my 5000 mile service and am very satisfied by Lexus of Cerritos from both perspectives (body work and service). I had gotten some ink on my dash and I rubbed a small hole through the leather (vinyl?) and Lexus of Cerritos fixed it free of charge as part of my 5000 mile service.

    Complain if you folks like about the price of the service, but it sure is nice to have a dealership call YOU until they touch bases as opposed to your having to bug them. For my body work, they assigned one person for me to communicate with the whole time, and he did a good job. One day he called me three times.

    While I was at the dealer, I looked at some GS300s and some LSes, and other than those vehicles being bigger, the interiors look very similar on all three vehicles. The ES300 looks much more like other Lexuses than is does the Camry, especially on the interior.

    It was such heaven to get back to my ML and of course I am spoiled by the Nav, which helped me find an Old Spaghetti Factory on my trip between Cerritos and Ridgecrest. Also, as far as you "ES300 is just a Camry" pundits go, an old boyfriend of mine owns an older SC300 and my ES300 interior is just as nice as the one in his car.

    If Lexus fixes the transmission, this car will be absolute world class as far as I am concerned.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    What is with you, anyway? Prior to purchase of my car back in March, I surveyed car colors in Ridgecrest so that I could purchase a color that others in my town would be unlikely to choose. [For any of you who live in the desert, you will know what I mean when I say that at least 1/3 of the cars in the desert are white.] There are many silver vehicles and gold ones (of all makes), too, because they are light/medium tones. (Not many dark cars in the desert).

    There are very few medium GREEN cars of any make in my town, so I purchased a green (mystic sea) one, hoping to have something that was somewhat unique. Well, guess what. I have seen three other 02ES300s and two of them have been green!!! (The other was white). Good grief, you guys. Lexus has 8 other colors, for goodness sakes!! They have two silvers and two whites (Chrystal and Alabaster).

    If anyone on this board is from Ridgecrest, 'fess up. Why the heck did you get green?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    It appears as though Lexus has gone from offering two options for West Coast drivers to four. Before the 03 ES300s came out, all regions except the West Coast offered four options.

    The highest end option's MSRP is now just over $40000, probably because of the adjustable accelerator pedal.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Hello All,

    Well... it's been a while. I've been patiently trying to deal with the Lexus dealership on the west side of Houston, but to no avail. The 2002 transmission is a joke and I have noted four instances before where failure of the transmission to provide power has put me in harms way. I bought a Lexus for service and quality. Unfortunately, I've seen neither. In addition to the bad transmission, there's a very loud rattle in my ceiling console. It's easily replicated by the dealership, and they've tried five (5) times to fix it and it still rattles. That wouldn't be so bad, except for the fact the dealership is resistant to provide me any service. Each visit came with great difficulty to set up. I have attributed it to the fact I bought the car from another dealer and not from them. They simply don't return calls, promise to take action (which action terminates when they hang up the phone), and except for my complaints to Customer Service they probably wouldn't give me service at all.

    Yesterday I filed under the Texas Lemon Law and have also filed with the Texas Attorney General under the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. Since Lexus sold the car knowing the transmission was defective they may be liable for damages equal to three times the price of the car. Sad... but this is what it has come to. I've really got better things to do, and believe the bad service is related only to this dealership.

    The only way to get things done is to make the wheel really squeak. I was told there would be a transmission fix in July, September, and now October. I've read on these postings it's going to be November. I would encourage others to complain and look into remedies provided through your State. Maybe we can get something done.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Glad to hear you've gotten your car back!

    "an old boyfriend of mine owns an older SC300 and my ES300 interior is just as nice as the one in his car."

    Woa, JUST as nice? I would think it'd be nicer than an older, discontinued SC300. It's the main selling point of the redesigned ES.

    As for West Coast options, there were 4 different package levels when I purchased my car last year.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Best of luck to you! And the current Edmund's review of the '02 ES is also the first to mention and verify the complaint about the new transmission. For quite a while, Lexus had been trying to pass it off as a normal characteristic of the transmission rather than a flaw. Not sure what their stance is on it now.

    I find this complaint much more legitimate than the engine sludge one. Unlike the engine sludge issue, the performance of the transmission has nothing to do with some maintenance task you did or did not do (or did not do properly) on your part. But look how Toyota responded to the engine sludge issue after some owners managed to get enough publicity.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Thanks. I'll try and keep things posted. It may be a waste of time, but I feel it prudent to try something.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I always mention you, along with rtorreca as the two owners on this board who are most disgruntled with your vehicles.

    I found a comment by one of the Lexus of Cerritos service managers to be comforting. He said that when the LS and GS first came out with their upgraded transmissions, they were very similar to the state of the ES transmission today. Several firmware upgrades have been issued on the LS and GS since 1998, and he predicts the same thing will happen with the ES300. He claims that when he gets a GS into the shop, he can always tell when the vehicle has the original transmission.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Thanks. Well... my frustration with the transmission is overly compounded by the fact I can't get service on the car for other issues without pounding on the dealership to call me back, to take action. I've always heard about how great Lexus service is and that's why I think this is an isolated dealership and would urge others to stay away from the dealership on the west side of Houston.

    I talked to an attorney at work yesterday and he said there may be grounds for a class action law suit on the transmission. With my frustration I'd really like a pound of flesh.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Well, if the responses on this board correlates at all to the opinions of the general population of ES300 owners, I predict that you will have difficulty with your lawsuit. On this board, a very distinct minority view the transmission issue as one of safety or even as an area of major discontent. You and rtorreca site 1-2 second delays in the response time of the transmission, for exsmple.

    The remaining respondents can be divided into two groups: 1) Those who do not detect the problem at all and 2) those who detect a problem but at best find it a mere annoyance.

    It is difficult to tell whether there are more owners in 1) or 2). It seems fairly even to me.
    Since I am in 2), I find it unbelievable that there could be so many in 1). I cannot believe there are people who do not feel the problem at all. By the same token, I never feel anything on the order of 1-2 second delays nor do I experience a safety issue.

    Based upon discussions on this board, published reviews in trade magazines, discussions with multiple service technicians and managers at multiple dealerships, and personal test drives of several vehicles, I have strong reason to believe that there is little variability in the behaviour from vehicle to vehicle. If lenscap (category 1) and I (category 2) swapped cars, I would feel the transmission problem in his car and he would not detect a problem in mine. Similarly, if you and I were to swap cars, my vehicle would seem a safety hazard to you, and I would view yours as an annoyance.

    I suspect it is all in the way we drive our cars, combined with our respective expectations of how perfectly the transmission SHOULD work.

    In summary, I think a lawsuit would be difficult because it will be difficult to assemble a cadre of owners who experience the problem to the degree that you and rtorreca do. Most of us in category 2) would still not be willing to ditch our cars; we still love them and many from this board have purchased vehicles DESPITE the negative press on the transmission.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    More '02 ES reading material on Edmunds...
    2002 Entry-Level Luxury Sedan Comparison Test
    Linked on their main page.
    "Before we plugged all of the numbers collected during this comparison into a calculator, various editors had predicted that the Lexus would be the winner of this test. And why not? It seemed the quintessential entry-level luxury sedan, with its posh cabin and quiet ride. On the basis of most scoring categories, things looked good for the ES 300: it was by far the sedan editors would most recommend to the average buyer with a score of 96 percent; it earned the highest cumulative score on editors' 23-point evaluations (by a narrow margin over the Passat W8); and it had the best coverage on our list of Top 10 Features for entry-luxury sedans — eight of the 10 were either standard or optional. Ultimately, though, the ES could not overcome the performance advantage of the Passat, or the stronger engine and lower price of the I35, and had to settle for a tie with the latter"
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    The new engine for the ES should give it a little boost to overpower the G35, it's second place counterpart.
  • hk2lahk2la Member Posts: 53
    Kreativ: thanks for your input re using different gears. Btw, a long time ago, I was the first person to post on this message board about this transmission problem (I didn't realize that that's what it was at the time), and you just outright thumbed it down, even though at the time, you only drove your ES five miles a week. Anyway, based on my recent ridiculous phone call w/ one bad-attitude, rude Lexus Customer Service rep by the name of DANIEL S. MURPHY, I now feel more compelled than ever to create a paper trail of all issues about the transmission and the car generally.

    Speaking of which, TEXAS83: good for you for taking the pain in the rear effort to file complaints with two state offices. I will likely do something similar in California and nationally. That transmission problem has put me in potential danger more than once, and once was enough.

    Mccloskey: well, I guess I personally wouldn't go so far as to compare the interior of a Lexus to the interior of a Maybach.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Actually, interiors don't seem to change that much. And the age of a car does not necessarily correlate to the opulence of the interior, although of course the fancy wing ding gadgets change as technology improves. But it is surprising how slowly the technology really does change.

    Then and now, SC300/400s run well over $50,000 and the comparitive niceness of the respective interiors make the 35K ES300 seem like a real bargain.

    By the way, I still think the older SC300/SC400s are among the most beautiful cars on the road.
This discussion has been closed.