Lexus ES 300/ES 330

djsass · January 2003

I am something of a self-proclaimed audiophile, and I love the Mark Levinson sound system. I feel that anyone with a love of music could not be disappointed, but for many, the Lexus sound system would suffice. I think either one is superior to the Bose system in my previous vehicle.

My '03 ES runs fine on 87, no perceptable difference with higher octane either in performance, or mileage. I will stick to my normal program, which is using only regualar grade, and once per month, a tank of premium.
I may experiment more after car gets some miles on it.

I got my 30 day service yesterday. I was impressed by the level of service. My passenger door mirror does not dim at night as it should. They inspected it and ordered a new mirror.

I have no regrets with my purchase...

atoews · January 2003

How does one tell when they don't dim?

tmart · January 2003

gsenthil · January 2003

and smaller

wayn1 · January 2003

LOL. You really can't tell?

atoews · January 2003

I guess that must mean they work. Or maybe it means they don't work. LOL

Actually, I can tell on the rear view mirror because it turns greenish at night. The driver side appears different when I turn the auto dim on versus off, but on the passenger side - well maybe I just haven't been in enough traffic to tell.

londine · January 2003

Have the glitches mentioned -- hesitation downshifting, etc. -- been fixed in the '03 ES 300s?

And has there been any tech. service bulletin from Lexus that improves transmission performance in the '02s?

akw3 · January 2003

I had the same problem especially when the outside temperature is cold. I mentioned it to my Dealer and they know right away what causes it. There is a service bulletin on this issue from Lexus .All they did was sprayed some kind of foam inside the door after they removed the door panel. Now my car is free of rattles from both sides .

hooray · January 2003

akw3,
I am glad your problem was resolved. My dealer took apart my doors and added the foam, but the rattles are as bad as ever. They are so loud, that when they first occurred I pulled off of the road to make sure my rear doors were closed properly or if something was loose on my doors.

My only temporary solution is on cold days, I set the temp to HOT (85+) until the doors warm up enough that the rattle subsides. I will continue to follow-up with my dealer for a Lexus fix that works. Maybe my dealer didn't apply the foam properly, but they kept the car for 2 days working on it and admitted that it wasn't fixed and that they had consulted Lexus HQ and didn't have a fix yet since the original Lexus TSB wasn't working. If nothing else, I guess I will enjoy a quiet ride again by springtime. I bought the car in late May, so test drives in warm weather don't reveal this cold weather rattle. My advice to any prospective Lexus owner is to test drive and buy your car in cold weather to make sure it doesn't have this disconcerting rattle.

nfjnr · January 2003

Has anyone bought a Colgan Custom front end bra for their car, and if so, how is it? It is supposed to be custom made to fit the Es 300. NO cutouts required.Autoanything.com has it for sale@$89.00. I believe the one from Lexus is close to $300.00

Thanks Nick

bartalk2 · January 2003

Friends advise waiting for release of the '04 ES in the fall, which will have a larger engine (3.3) befitting its near-luxury status. And maybe they'll fix the transmission by then.

Comments?

akw3 · January 2003

hooray,
The Dealer didn't fix it right the first time, they actually fixed the problem the second time after they applied more foam. Two of my colleagues have the same car but they haven't experienced any rattles.
I also had a rattle from the dash but my dealer pinpoint it right away from my last visit. It was a cover from the windshield wiper.
This car has more rattles than any car I owned. My wife's cheap 01' Honda Civic is rattles free!!

londine · January 2003

Hmmm...if the RX 330 does in fact use the same trans as the ES 300 (330 in '04 model?), it'll be interesting to see if Lexus sorts out any shifting glitches.

Post #6801: "Car and Driver magazine (www.caranddriver.com) tested the ES300 in August 2002. They state that the new ES300 has the five speed U150E transmission. The previous generation ES300 has the U140E four speed transmission. I am not sure what transmission is in the RX300.
"C&D states that the U150E contains revised clutching which allows for two overdrives. The problem is that it is reluctant to give them up. Toyota and Lexus used to equip their cars with a sport/economy button for the transmission, but that button and the extra lines of software code are gone."

And this:
"In my post #6801, I mentioned that I do not know what transmission is used in the RX300. I did a Yahoo search on "RX300 U140E transmission," and it appears that the U140E is used in the FWD RX300, and the U140F is in the AWD. Since the previous generation ES300 used the U140E, and the 2002/2003 ES300 now use the U150E, there is a possibility that the new RX330 will also use the U150E."

esaod · January 2003

I have a 2003 ES300. Whenever I turn on the car after sitting in very cold weather (Upstate New York winters), the backlight on the radio is extremely dim until the car warms up~about 10-15 minutes or so.
When I asked the dealer, he stated that the display is temperature dependent and that this is normal. Other people I've asked with the same car have not had this problem, and the climate control display never dims with cold weather. Doesn't this also have a similar type of display? Anyone else notice this problem?

rparis · January 2003

1)I was thinking of trading my 2000 ES with 42,000 miles, in great condition, for a 2003 model. My present car has heated seats, cd player, etc, but no nav. The dealer tells me they want $13500 plus my car for a new car which lists for $36552. How does this sound? The salesman said he thought the manager was giving me about $20,000 for my car. If anyone bought without trade, about same list price, what did you pay?

2) The saleman also said if you use premium fuel the mileage will be much better? Presently I use regular gas. Any thoughts?

3) Also, I understand for 2004 the new cars will have a larger engine-is it worth the wait? Is the present car sufficiently powered? Has anyone heard of other changes?

4)Finally are there some other owners who have traded to the 2002 style car from an earlier version-is there a big difference in the ride, etc. ?

Thanks everyone
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

joker2108 · January 2003

I seen on Motor Trands website that the ES 300 is going to be called the ES330 with a larger engine. 20 more horse power.

Are there any other changes?

Also the same website states that the GS is going to be redesigned?

Of course the Lexus dealers I spoke too know nothing about either the ES or GS

I hope the Es300 transmission shutter is fixed in 2004. I test drove the 2003 model and was able to feel the shutter 5 times. In fact it was easy to make it happen if you "floored" the gas pedal.

I love lexus and lease a GS300 now. I want to stay with Lexus (with a lower monthly payment)
So I was looking at the ES300.

So far if I had to decide right this minute I would choose in the following order.

GS300 (Number one for me ,but price too high)

I35 (Infiniti nice car but not as nice as Lexus)

ES300 (comes in last because of transmission Shutter, Wood wheel, Loose wheel, and short front seats)

It is a shame the Es300 is not as good as I hoped. The price is right at $399 a month at 48 months with 12k miles a year.

rparis · January 2003

Do drivers of the present Es feel there is sufficient power? Next year's modelis supposed to have a larger engine-what do most drivers think-is it worth waiting for?

tmart · January 2003

My '00 has more than enough power for me. How much do you REALLY need to go 70-80 MPH? I didn't get the car for the power. If you're wanting 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, get another car. How often do you drag the car next to you at the light?

londine · January 2003

Well, it depends.

LIKELY (but no guarantees :-) changes to '04:
1. 3.3L engine, more hp, maybe 20 more lbs. torque.
2. Radio controls on steering wheel.

If they boost the hp, maybe 1 notch up in tire width.

The above is all speculation. It'd be nice if they also added power telescoping to the steering wheel, and added that to memory, but maybe that gets too close to the LS? Who knows.

IF more hp, the added torque MAY reduce the amount of downshifting needed, which MAY reduce any hesitation problems.

I test-drove the '03 twice, just driving fairly normally, which for me is fairly brisk but smooth -- not hard-charging. Car had plenty of pickup -- for me.

I want to say it's easier for, say, Honda to crank their 3L up to 240hp (on regular, no less) than it is for Lexus, since the ES 300 has to be tuned for a quieter and smoother ride, and for the ULEV emission rating that Lexus covets.

BUT -- big but -- Honda's engine also is ULEV rated. So I think Lexus has to respond. They have to keep their lux car a notch ahead of mass market cars like Accords, in ALL areas, not just interior appointments, comfort and ride quality. This means staying at least in the neighborhood horsepower wise. And if Hondas have steering wheel radio controls...

Of course, Lexus HQ may disagree with me. :-))

alpha01 · January 2003

is LEV certified, as per the website and Accord brochure. The 160hp 2.4L, however, is ULEV.
~alpha

londine · January 2003

Hi, alpha01.

I got the ULEV from the '03 Accord brochure. The photo of the engine block showed "3.0 VTEC ULEV" on the valve cover.

The text underneath says "...select V-6 models are Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicles (ULEV.)3"

The footnote tells the tale, though. It says -- in microscopic type -- "ULEV-rated on V-6 models available in CA, MA, ME, NY and VT."

I guess everyone else gets plain, old LEV engines. :-)

I wonder if there's any difference in drivability, throttle response, or horsepower ratings between the ULEV and LEV versions of the engine.

My personal bias is to get the engine, throttle and transmission working smooth with no hesitation, then dial in all the ULEV you can, if you can. But if you can't, don't screw up the drivability to get the rating.

msstrikehr1 · January 2003

Hi, I originally posted this in ES 300 problems, but then saw this board discusses problems and gets a lot more traffic. So, I'm posting here too. I apologize for any inconvenience.

Recently bought a '96 Coach Edition Cream Puff (40,000 miles on it) that my mechanically inclined dad picked out from his friends at Lexus dealer in New Orleans. All seemed fine with car when hubby and I first drove it around for 2 days. Then I got injured and couldn't drive. Hubby drove car back to Chicago. When I got behind wheel, car wasn't right -- overally responsive to road, made popping noise during slow turns and had a shutter and hop. Before we could get it to dealer b/c of holidays, we got a flat tire too - 2 nails in it. Got flat repaired at gas station.

Took car to dealer for other problems. Tires were WAY overinflated (thanks hubby) and rear sway bar bushings were dirty. So, afterwards, the car was not so too overly responsive to road and less noise on turns. But it still seems to drift to left when in left lane of Xpressway and have to hold steering wheel in slight, slight correction so as not to drift off side of the road. Still makes bit on noise when turning and backing out of garage but not on forward turns.

But, the thing that really annoys me is that pesky hop and shudder remained -- almost like I was riding a horse, but not quite as severe. So I took it back to dealer. They let me drive around with the tech who worked on my car and he said while he knows what I'm talking about from other cars he just doesn't feel it in my car and tried to blame it on the roads. I told him that, yes, I was really sensative but that I had driven it on the expressway and city roads and smoother suburban roads and it was there all of the time. It seems to be worst when accelerating from 25 to 45. And I told him about the repaired tire. So, they tried to fix it by balancing the wheels, which they said were off by 10%, and gave it to me to drive around and see.

So, after the wheels were balanced, I drove around and the pesky hop and shudder were still there. So my dad suggested that, since we have a brand new spare in the trunk, we put that on to replace the repaired tire and see if that did the trick. It didn't.

So, does anybody have any suggestions? I know it seems like a minor complaint, but we have had the car less than two months and I saved up for years for it and got to drive it when it was pristine for 2 DAYS!!

mrrogers · January 2003

Many years ago, I was a member of the Porsche Club of America. There was always an article in one of the car magazines about which tire is the best in terms of handling. Chuck Stoddard, owner of Stoddard Imported Cars, a Porsche dealership in Willoughby, Ohio wrote an article that Porsche owners should buy Michelins because they are the roundest of all the tires. This translates into much better feel in the steering. Since that time, I have put Michelins on many different cars, and have never been disappointed. I am not sure if that will solve your problem but at least you may be able to convince your dealer that tires are not the problem.

cusafr · January 2003

Always difficult to try to understand/fix car problems (could be anything) when you are looking at the car. To do it over the internet is next to impossible because there are so many possibilities. That being said, for whatever it is worth, find out if the wheels (rims) are original equipment. If not, you may have wheels that fit, but are not hub centric. If this is the case, you need hub rings to make them hub centric. This is only idea, but you never know!

cusafr

richm4 · January 2003

As long as someone brought up the subject of the new Accord, I was strongly considering an ES300 but after driving the Accord, I doubt I'll get the ES300. Reasons that favor the Accord?

1. Much stronger engine
2. Much smoother transmission (no Shudder)
3. Steering wheel radio controls
4. List price is $10K less
5. Can be bought for invoice as opposed to near sticker price.

bartalk2 · January 2003

Potential ES buyers, I would advise waiting for the '04. The current model is underpowered by today's standards and has been bypassed by the mass market Accord, Altima, current and forthcoming Maxima, etc. Note that Toyota has just now upgraded the Camry V6 engine midyear to compete with those cars.

atoews · January 2003

What is the mpg cost for the higher powered engines?

msstrikehr1 · January 2003

Hi,

I appreciate the responses that I've gotten so far. That said, cusafr makes a good point about diagnosing problems over the Internet.

In copying and pasting my first post over from the ES 300 problems board though I accidentally left off the end, which could make a difference. :-)

So here it is ...

*****
I'd just like the problem fixed, and it seems to me that it's going to be hard for this dealer to fix it if they can't even feel the problem, which both me and my husband feel. I'm willing to pay to have it fixed (and have an extended warranty). But I don't want to pay for all of their guesses only to have them discover the real problem 3 or 4 educated guesses down the line. To their credit, so far, I've only paid the $50 initial inspection fee. (Of course, they still haven't diagnosed the problem nor can they acknowlege it's existance.)

Does anyone have any mechanics they particularly like in the Chicago area? Any particular tech at any Lexus or Toyota dealer, especially in the city?
*****

Note, after I've cruised around this board some, I've noticed that this denying the problem exists seems to be a somewhat common tactic. Anyone care to comment on that and any experiences they've had with that.

mrrogers · January 2003

Concerning ES300 pricing, I went into www.carsdirect.com, and typed in zipcode 91311 for the Los Angeles, CA area. For the base 2003 ES300, the MSRP including freight is $32,280. Invoice is $29,011. CarsDirect price is $29,511. I have been told that freight to truck the car to the Ohio area is about $700.

domettg · January 2003

I have a '99 ES300 and have noticed that the outside temp readout is accurate in the 50 degree range but as the temp gets colder, it gets less accurate. At down around 10 degrees, it reads about 5 or 6 degrees higher than several external thermometers that I have had near the car after it has been sitting all night. Has anyone else noticed this? Where is the temp sensor? Is it adjustable or is it a sealed factory calibrated unit?

wwh11 · January 2003

Could any of your experts suggest a sales price for a 2002 ES300 that comes with the Premium package and 7000 miles only? This is a privately owned car.

Thanks.

rparis · January 2003

For an ES that lists for about $36500 (No nav) what are most people paying?

Has anyone who has driven a 2001, 2000, 1999 or 1998 model purchased the 2002 or 2003 model. Is there much of a difference in the two vehicles as far as ride, etc? My salesman says the newly styled model is far superior. Any thoughts?

richm4 · January 2003

I think LA pricing is much more competitive due to the numerous Lexus dealers there. In Chicago, there are fewer dealers and, thus, less competition for the dealers.

bartalk2 · January 2003

Good point about gas mileage. With the price of gas rising with the threat of Bush's war, etc. mileage becomes a factor. Honda managed to squeeze out 240 hp and still increase gas mileage over the previous 200 hp engine in the new Accord (and on regular gas). The new V6 in the Camry is basically the Avalon engine whose gas mileage is nearly identical to the old Camry, and with a new 5-speed transmission may be even better. As the ES goes from 3.0 to 3.3, gas mileage may suffer a little but probably not much. But with the inevitable increases in gas prices over the years (before and after the war), people who buy gas guzzling V8s like the new Infiniti M45 and Lincoln's LS may be in for a big shock.

mmccloskey · January 2003

Greetings:

With the advent of a larger (3.3 ltr) engine in the 2004 ES, it would probably be less than the current 20/29 mileage rating of the 3.0 ltr. Will the extra (projected) horsepower really make the car that much quicker and will it matter to accelerate .5 seconds faster. Mileage should be a factor as well as reasonable acceleration in most circumstances when considering a vehicle. Premium fuel in my region is about 1.59. per/gal but could quickly rise based on the current global unrest.

My 2K2 ES has been wonderful - great mileage (27-28mpg/w premium), 90% highway and I find the engine has plenty of power. When accelerating briskly from a standstill, the car moves out with authority and there is almost a V-8 sound to the engine as it gathers speed and the transmission shifts without any hesitation or abruptness.

As I only drive the ES on fair weather days, my accumulated mileage is 5,780 in nearly seven months. No problems, squeaks, rattles, loose trim or any other issues. This is my first Lexus and I have not been disappointed in any way.

Ultra-quiet and super-smooth - the only way to travel!

M.J. McCloskey

jimbres · January 2003

My wife's 99 ES will soon need new tires, & I'd appreciate any recommendations. Good handling on wet/slippery road surfaces is important.

gekko2 · January 2003

I have a 95 ES and just bought these at Sears and am very happy:

Michelin Pilot XGT H4 Tires
P205/65R15
$97.99 each

They are quiet, smooth, handle-well, and appear/from what I hear - durable.

http://www.sears.com/

I went down one speed rating to H and saved some bucks - H is perfect for me.

I also bought the:

Road Hazard Plus Agreement
- Free tire replacement if non-repairable.
- Free wheel balancing.
- Free valve stem replacement.
- Free flat repair.
- 25% off the purchase of alignment service at time of repair or replacement.

Sears owns NTB and they are everywhere which is of value to me - if I need warranty replacement. Sears is also open on weekends/evenings. I'm not a big Sears guy, but they took cae of me with these tires.

GOOD LUCK!

alexs95 · January 2003

I have a 2000 ES300 Lexus with 30,000 miles. I can't find anywhere in the Owner's Manual where you are to replace the transmission fluid. It only says you are to inspect "transmission and defferential oil". Seems like you should replace these fluids sometime. Does anyone have any thoughts.

gekko2 · January 2003

Here's what I follow:

LEXUS MAINTENANCE RECOMMENDED SCHEDULE

Every 3,750 Miles:
Oil and Oil Filter Change

Every 30,000 Miles:
Radiator Coolant Flush/Change
Air Filter Change
Transmission and Differential Fluid Flush/Change
BG MOA Oil Additive
BG 44K Fuel Induction Additive

Every 60,000 Miles:
Spark Plugs Change/Tune-Up
Power Steering Fluid Flush/Change
Brake Fluid Flush/Change
Fuel Filter Change
Battery Check/Change

Every 90,000 Miles:
Timing Belt Change
Water Pump Check/Change

Every 1 Year:
Exterior Wax/Detail
Interior Leather/Wood Cleaning and Conditioning/Detail and Carpet Shampoo
Wiper Blade Inserts Change

jparsons52 · January 2003

Lexus has encountered significant problems with the Toyo tires that come as original equipment on some ES 300's. On my '02 ES, with 10,000 miles on the odo, I noticed excessive "road noise". I stopped by the dealership to make a service appointment. When I described the problem, the service rep immediately examined the tires and showed me the "cupping" that had occurred on inside treads of the front tires. He said Lexus and Toyo had been having discussions. Lexus was blaming the tires, since they've had no similar problems with Bridgestone or Goodyear tires that also are used as original equipment. Toyo is blaming the car, as they say they've had no problems on other makes. Lexus replaced all five Toyo tires free of charge with Goodyears (as the Bridgestones are on back-order in this area), which immediately solved the problem.
This ES is my fourth Lexus since 1992, and I've consistently found Lexus dealers (and I've used two different ones) to be responsive to any questions or problems that arise.

rparis · January 2003

Have you driven other ES 300s prior to the 2002 model? If so how would you comfpare them as I am thinking of trading my 2000 for a 2003. Thanks.

alexs95 · January 2003

Your recommended maintenance schedule differs from my Owner's Manual. For example my Owner's Manual says to "replace the brake fluid" at both 30,000 and 60,000. Also to replace the engine coolant at both 30,000 and 60,000. I wonder where you got your scheduled maintenace. It would seem logical to me that every thing you do at 30,000 would be repeated at 60,000 with exception of replacing the spark plugs at 60,000 only.

londine · January 2003

Appreciate your sharing your experience with the '02 ES.

I think the current car has plenty of power. We're just in a horsepower race right now (Nissan, Honda, etc.). And while the whole idea of a luxury car like the ES 300 is a smooth ride, comfort, quiet, a distinctive look and a quality interior, Lexus probably can't afford to be too far behind baseline cars in acceleration numbers.

But Lexus marketing decisions for their '04s take nothing away from the current car's performance in and of itself.

londine · January 2003

I know color choice has a lot of personal preference to it, but wonder if you could share your thoughts on why you chose the color you did, whether you still like it as much as you did when you bought the car, how well its held up, and how easy it is to take care of?

And, if you were buying a new ES today, would you still go with the same color?

mmccloskey · January 2003

Londine:

I have attached an image of my 2K2 ES300 - Alabaster Metallic w/light charcoal interior - everything but the AVS on it. I chose this color combo because I wanted a light color (not Crystal White or Silver) and Starlight Pearl (light metallic blue depending on the light) was rather scarce. I have yet to see one in that color in person. Even though this color is a bit somber, it has an understated distictiveness between the White and Silver.

And yes, I would choose this color again unless the Starlight Pearl color was really spectacular! The paint quality on this car is wonderful - I can't find a flaw anywhere. I have used Zaino from the beginning and only hand washings when necessary.

Hope this helps -

M. J. McCloskey

fredvh · January 2003

Did you see the mystic sea(light green) color? If so, what did you think? What do you think of the ES300 now that you have had it for a while?

mmccloskey · January 2003

Greetings again:

Yes, I did see the Mystic Sea while at the dealership picking up my Alabaster beauty. I liked the color very much - almost looks greyish in certain lighting situations. Very elegant color but not for me. In the past I had a car with dark blue paint, and I will never again have a vehicle with dark paint. My previous vehicle, 2K Solara SLE, was Silverstream and I didn't want another silver car. The Alabaster is a kind of grey/tan metallic, lighter than silver but darker than the white. What gets me is my registration states the cars color as 'white'.

My opinion of the ES300 after nearly 7 months of ownership is just as strong now as when I first got it. I have no doubt I got the best car based on my wants/needs. I'm not that fond of the exterior styling but since I ride IN the car not ON it, it is something I can accept. I am still impressed by the smoothness and quiet composure of this car and the interior is a very pleasant place to reside while underway. Some have said the Mark Levinson Sound system is not that much better than the standard Pioneer. I knew I wouldn't be satisfied unless I got the M/L and I must say the system is very impressive. I guess if you've heard the Pioneer system without checking out the M/L the Pioneer might be sufficient.

M. J. McCloskey

jimbres · January 2003

Many thanks for your reply. I've heard good things about the Pilot, & it's now at the top of my list.

fredvh · January 2003

What a coincidence! I am also considering the Solara for my next new car. I sure would like your opinions on the Solara. I have one worry about the frameless windows. Did you have any problems, such as wind noise or water leaking, with them?

lenscap · January 2003

If you already own a 2000 ES 300, then you obviously have some sort of access to a Lexus dealer. I would recommend you drive a 2003 ES 300 so you can see the differences for yourself.

While the 1997-2001 ES 300s were great cars, they were only new cosmetically. They still used the platform of the 1992-1996 versions. This is not a bad thing mind you, as cars typically use a platform for more than one cycle.

But in using a brand-new platform, the 2002-03 ES 300s are stronger and more solid than the old versions. This is helped by the fact that frames were added to the doors, increasing structural rigidity. They benefit from the technology that has become available in the last ten years in terms of platform-building.

Aside from being on the new platform, the 2002-03 ES 300s have more safety equipment (like side curtain airbags), better option choices (like navigation) and a far more luxurious interior. Further, the car is bigger overall inside and out and much more "substantial." And, the now-old-looking lower body cladding is gone, giving the car a more modern look.

Again, the old ES 300s were and still are great cars. But five years (10 for the platform) is a long time in the car business, and the car was in need of a remake.

Hope this helps. But again, I strongly urge you to drive a 2003 and come to your own conclusions.

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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