Lexus ES 300/ES 330

jchan2 · September 2003

I've never heard of a chip that can't be reset if a new owner takes on your ES330. That concept of adapting gears and trannys to your driving style isn't new. It was introduced 2 years ago on the Mitsubishi Lancer LS.

dardson1 · September 2003

I understand the 04 Lexus will include leather in the base price. Today I was sniffing around (Sunday is my car day when I can look without a salesman). There was an 03 ES300 with the Premium Pkg listed as a $550 option. Total MSRP was a bit over $33k. It had leather. Edmunds lists the PP as a $2100 option. HUM?
Just for the record, I just helped my daughter buy a new Honda EX V6 sedan. The darn thing has everything but a kitchen sink. It drives so much like my wife's Lexus I was blown away. To boot it has a 240hp V6 (that goes like crazy), heated front seats, steering wheel audio controls, and a 120 watt 6 disk audio system that sounds very fine .......all for a $26k sticker and buyable for $23k. A comparably equipped '03 ES300 had an MSRP $9k more.
Honda has put serious pressure on the entry level luxury market. While the Lexus nameplate, stellar service, and longer warranty is worth some money, I suggest we all thank Honda for raising the bar and making the ES300 an even better bargain in '04 with a bigger engine and standard leather.

JPham · September 2003

You must've looked at Edmunds' '03 ES300 listing because Edmunds' '04 ES330 doesn't list a PP.
For '04 the Premium Pkg consists of a 6-disc CD changer for $570

kennynmd · September 2003

true 9k is alot but its still not a lexus. Ask anyone, what will they rather drive a lexus or a honda, and I'll bet that 9 out of 10 will say a lexus.

jragosta · September 2003

The dealer is wrong. The ES330 has more changes in the transmission than just the computer chip. Read through this forum. One change is wider gear ratios. You can't get that by simply changing the computer software.

kreativ · September 2003

I don't think dardson was implying the new Accord makes the new ES not worth it...simply that they're close enough that features/pricing pressure on one would positively (for the consumer) affect the other. Obviously, the Accord and Camry were designed to be high-selling "all around value" family cars. And no luxury car could win a feature/price comparison with these two. Feature-wise, you could get even more bang for your buck going with a Kia.

At this price point, most people don't blow $9K just to have an "L" on their hood. So besides the luxury nameplate, what one gets in the new ES is a rich interior which allows it to stand apart from the Accord, and even cars in its own segment (such as the TL and G35). It gives you the feel of an LS for a lot less. If the interior doesn't win you over, then an Accord or Camry may very well make you just as happy for a lot less cash.

gekko2 · September 2003

I think there is something wrong with Edmunds Options TMV Pricing for the 2002 ES. I don't think it is accurate and I believe the reason it comes out much, much higher than it should be is because it is individually pricing each option rather than assuming the packages like "premium package" which provide a significant discount. Try it.

kiiwii · September 2003

I see. Taking the latest 30 miles to learn makes sense. I was confused a bit when I heard the learning based on "time" instead of "mileage". Thanks for the info!

kiiwii · September 2003

Did a bit test drive last weekend. I'm happy to report that I couldn't reproduce the transmission problem. I'll take few more test drives to confirm.

The 330 is very smooth, and it feels more powerful than I expected. The only bad news is that in the southern reagon, you will have to get a fully loaded ES in order to get VSC. I consider VSC is as important as ABS. It's a shame that Lexus doesn't make the VSC a standard safety equipment.

atoews · September 2003

(no pun intended)
Lexus is in a quandry. The problem is that not all owners experience the "problem". Therefore, the fix is not really a fix. The new firmware for the 2002 ES300 is not advertised as a "fix" or an upgrade in the sense that they would put it in all cars. The new firmware just changes the shift points. The new firmware is just different, not acknowledged at this point in time to be better.

Anyway, the dealers are finding themselves in the following conversations, due to web sites like this one.

Owner: What is this transmission problem I am hearing about?

Dealer: What symptom are you feeling?

Owner: I am not feeling any, but there is a problem.

The dealers are reluctant to put this new firmware in cars where owners don't have symptoms.

Since Toyota/Lexus does not know what the real problem is, they don't know whether it is in the ES330 or not.

If I were an ES330 owner, I'd definitely not complain about the transmission unless I felt a symptom. My dealer does not know whether the same symptom is in the ES330.

I suspect that Lexus wants to try the following:

Put the new firmware in cars whose owners feel a symptom. Then see what the owners' responses are. If owners overwhelmingly think the fix improves things, then Lexus may begin pitching it as a fix.

If I were an ES330 0wner I'd be reassured that one of the posters on this board, who was able to reproduce the problem in the 2002 ES300 cannot reproduce it in his ES330.

My view is that owners who do not feel the symptom, whether it be the 330 0r the 300 are not doing anyone any good by complaining about it to their dealers or asking about it at this point in time.

In summary, Lexus had put out new firmware in hopes that owners who feel the symptom will experience an improvement. Only then, will they consider it an improvement meant to be recommended to most owners.

jragosta · September 2003

Don't forget - Lexus did more than change the firmware in the new transmissions. They've changed the gear ratios, as well. That means that there were some pretty significant changes.

texas83 · September 2003

I took about a 400 mile trip recently. My computer registered that I was getting 30mpg. My actual check however turned up that I was getting 26 mpg. Don't trust your computers. But, I can say I didn't buy the car for that feature.

Also, I got the transmission upgrade last Friday. I can say that the car is definitely better, but it is definitely not fixed. Very disappointing.

pat · September 2003

I'm very sorry to hear that the upgrade didn't take care of the issue. However, I do think it would be best if we transfer this line of conversation to the transmission-issue topic here where you are also posting.

There really isn't any reason to continue to focus this general conversation on an issue for which there is a dedicated topic.

Thanks and good luck.

atoews · September 2003

of how the ES330 works. Do you intend to test drive one to see if the problem is still there?

If not, maybe you could get Lexus to put that new engine/transmission in your car!!!

dardson1 · September 2003

Not sure what I was implying. I love my Lexus and as I approach the end of my lease I wonder....should I keep the '01 for $19k? Quite a bargain. It has under 17k miles, another year warranty, and the only problem I've had was addressed with a free loaner and a quick and painless resolution. All the transmission complaints (gotta be some kinda issue there whether large or small) makes me skiddish about an '04. After driving the Honda EXV6 which is not quite as luxo, but more HP and similar standard stuff (definitely an every-man image) I'm hard pressed to say a Lexus with all the perks (they even wash the darn thing when I have the oil changed) is worth $8k more.
It will be interesting to see where I land in 3 months. I wouldn't hesitate to choose a Lexus if it weren't for the nagging transmission issue.

gekko2 · September 2003

"I'm hard pressed to say a Lexus...is worth $8k more." "I wouldn't hesitate to choose a Lexus if it weren't for the nagging transmission issue."

dardson - you're about as consistent as Madonna's hair color.

organic · September 2003

Bought a new ES300 in the middle of August. At that time I asked if the ES was going to go through a major changeover and was told only minor with slight engine size increase. No mention of 330 or price change.
Now a month later I find out that a new ES330 has come out with LOWER prices!! The dealer will not do anything about it or even admit to not telling me about the numerical changes. I know it might be minor but this will definitely decrease the resell value of the car.

Is there anything I could do. Does anyone know when the dealers knew about the price drop on the 330? Ughhh.

kreativ · September 2003

Well, some of us knew back before the new ES was introduced that there would likely be either an ES330 or ES350 for the '04 model year.

This is one of those things you have to count on yourself to look into. Since Lexus' introduction in '89, the numbering in their model names has always been based off of the size of the engine. The dealer did say there would be a slightly larger engine coming up, which also means a slight model number change as well. I wouldn't have been surprised if they claimed no knowledge of such an upcoming change. Most of them are trained to sell the cars they have now, not make you think about waiting until something new comes out. A dealership is the last place I would trust for this sort of information, especially when they see the customer in a position to buy now.

JPham · September 2003

Believe me, we were told of ES330 pricing two weeks before we received shipments.

sophie236 · September 2003

I am looking at buying a 2003 ES 300 - I have been looking for months and test drove this one today and really liked it a lot. It has got everything I want in a car, but does not come with the Vehicle skid control/traction control. Is it worth it for me to look for one with VSC? I live in the DC area so I can't see really using it for snow, but it could help in the rain. What do you all think?

texas83 · September 2003

I don't have any present plans on driving it. That's not to say I won't. I've considered your suggestion about putting a 330 tranny in my car. I doubt they would do it without a lot of trouble and approvals from Lexus Corp. I only notice the shuddering slightly now, there is still some slip and surge but not as bad, though still aggravating, and I can definitely hit the gas and watch the RPM's spin while the car doesn't go anywhere. It's almost like the transmission runs with a rubber band. As long as there's tension it's fine. But, when the rubber band is loose it takes a while to tighten. On the whole the car is definitely better, but not fixed. When I get time I may test drive a 330. Lexus told me it has the exact same software but it may have other improvements.

lexusrock · September 2003

by about a leather trim package ($1.2K'ish) but you can't get it at invoice price, which was quite doable with es300 for the past few months. I got one fully loaded (option3) in Aug. below IP and dealer told me that though es330 will be cheaper on msrp and invoice they will sell it at least $1.5K more than a similar es300. I figured that's not worth the the extra 15 horse power. But maybe come resell time 330 does sound better. Still I'd rather save $1.5K now. Looking to enjoy es300 for many years anyway.

jragosta · September 2003

Isn't it about time for this thread to be put back into the ES330 (new vehicles) board? It's no longer relevant for 'future vehicles'.

The funny thing is that if you go to the right place (the ES330 board), they send you here.

kennynmd · September 2003

If I can remember correctly, I believ either Car&Driver or Motor Trend did a test on the RX330 a couple of issues back. According to them the tranny was sliiping a bit also. Isn't the motor in the RX330 and ES330 the same? If so, maybe the problem isn't fixed.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

jragosta, there's no other 330 board, so I'm not sure what you're talking about -- this is the only active discussion on the ES 330, and we'll move it soon!

jragosta · September 2003

Of course there's another board. This board is the 'future vehicles board. Click on the 'new vehicles' toolbar above. Then click on 'Lexus'. Then click on 'ES-330'. Then click on 'Consumer discussion'. It will take you to the correct ES330 board.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/lexus/es330/100322064/discussions- .html?tid=edmunds.n.roadtests.leftsidenav..19.Lexus*

The ES330 came out 3 weeks ago - it's no longer a future vehicle.

lenscap · September 2003

Everyone has a different opinion, but personally I would not buy a car unless all of the optional safety equipment were on the model I was looking at. Also, if you're planning on buying, I would think the safety equipment makes a difference when it comes time to sell or trade in.

sopecreek · September 2003

in my 01 ES has been dropping at about half a pint per 15K miles (per year) rate. Since this has been rather slow process of observing, I had to make sure it was indeed happening over a year long coolant level check and adding distilled water. My dealer tells me this is not necessarily a problem. I'd like to know if anyone else experienced this and what I should do about it. Thanks.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

jragosta, the only ones listed are the ES 300 prices paid discussion, and the "was not told about ES330 - deceived?" discussion. Those are not the main discussions about this vehicle, this one is. But, in any case, this one is moving to the Sedans Board today!

jeff5302 · September 2003

I don't get a chance to visit dealers that often. Are the ES330s in the dealerships, and are they reasonably stocked (colors and options)? Or are people buying the first or second car to come it and paying a premium for it?

Thanks for the update. Jeff

lenscap · September 2003

The ES 330s have been in for a few weeks now. But the inventory seems very low, at least at my dealer. Also at my dealer nearly all the 330s are sold before they arrive.

s852 · September 2003

Oh, yes the ES330 is the car everyone wants and "we can't keep 'em on the lots" yada yada.

It's common for the new models to initially arrive at the dealers in smaller shipments.
It isn't that the ES330 is that "super hot" of a car.

The new engine should spark more interest, but I think it will take some styling tweaks in 2006 for it attract much more sales at this point.

jragosta · September 2003

"jragosta, the only ones listed are the ES 300 prices paid discussion, and the "was not told about ES330 - deceived?" discussion. Those are not the main discussions about this vehicle, this one is"

That's exactly my point. This topic is in the wrong place. It should have been moved to the ES330 area weeks ago.

pat · September 2003

jragosta, I understand what you mean, now. There are only about forty-eleven ways to get to a discussion these days and the term "board" means different things in different contexts and to different people.

I have asked what does it take to get this discussion to show up on 2004 ES 330 new vehicle page that you linked above. I'll let you know what I find out.

Pat
(who is your new host, now that this discussion has been moved from the Town Hall Future Vehicles message board to the Town Hall Sedans message board!)

jragosta · September 2003

Thanks.

cb1943 · September 2003

Is it true that if you have a navigation system it is not advisable to tint the windows as it may interfere with it's performance ?

tk_det · September 2003

I believe that the gps attenna for the NAV sytem is in the roof of the car above the headliner. I don't see tinted windows having any effect unless it mitigates your seeing street signs at night so that you can't reconcile "ground truth" with what the NAV system is telling you. :>)

pposte · September 2003

To All,

I took delivery of a gorgeous new ES330 yesterday from Lexus in Los Angeles. I then drove it back home to Henderson, Nevada (dealers in Vegas jack prices up way high). The ride was beautiful and was pretty uneventful until about half-way to Vegas I had three lights come on: Check Engine Light, VSC light, and VTRAC OFF light.

Now I know what you are thinking, and no I wasn't driving like a maniac to Vegas. I took it pretty easy, changing speeds to allow a nice break-in.

Anyone experience problems like this before with either a new ES330 or even the ES300? Are things like this normal when buying a new luxury car. This is my first (finally!) and I never had problems like this when I was driving a Jetta.

Signed,

Ansy to drive my new car, but it's already in the shop!

mapleleave · September 2003

It is standard on all Toyota SUV and available for camry and alike. If you buy over 500,000 life insurance for your love one, wait and pay $500 so you have less chance making them get paid.

jragosta · September 2003

Man, what a tough break.

A small percentage of new cars will have problems. For Lexus, it's under 1% of new cars. You can find ratings on various places, but Lexus rates #1 in terms of best new car quality.

Even so, that doesn't mean problem free. You got one with a problem. Fortunately, Lexus also rates very highly in dealer satisfaction, so it's very likely that the problem will be solved to your satisfaction.

In the future, though, I'd be inclined to get your quote from a distant dealer (or carbargains.com or another site) and ask your local dealer to match it. They may not do so, but there are likely to be fewer hard feelings about fixing a car they didn't sell you. I gave my local dealer a price from a dealer 300 miles away and he matched it without hesitation.

Good luck in getting your problem resolved soon.

For what it's worth, once you get the car back, you'll love it. Of all the cars I've owned, my ES330 is the first one I've really loved.

coolguyky7 · September 2003

I have an answer!

Your light situation has happened to my mom's 2003 Avalon once and it just happened today! The last time those three lights came on, it was because her fuel cap wasn't screwed on tight enough (or the door wasn't shut, but I'm 99% sure it's the first one). For some reason, if you don't get it to click when screwing it on, the car will turn these lights on. In order to remedy it, she mentioned something about dealing with a fuse to reset it. Call your Lexus/Toyota dealer and mention this and see what they make of it.

tedescm1 · September 2003

Does the new ES 330 have the transmission problem?

lexusrock · September 2003

Is it true that if you don't get the VSC option (not in any pre-intalled option package; has to add it separately?) you don't get TCS either? I have a option 3 pack (NAV/ML and ...) but I never see these TCS lights on even when turning the key. I know it does not have VSC but I thought it'd have some basic TCS.... Guess not or the basic one is built in w/o control switch/light?

lenscap · September 2003

In order to have traction control you must also get Vehicle Stability Control. They are packaged together as an option. You can't have one without the other.

lexusrock · September 2003

Looks like in Cal. most ES just don't come with it and most people don't ask for it....

yawsboy · September 2003

I live in Houston and just leased a brand new 2004 ES 330. What a beautiful car! I got it fully loaded and I think after driving this car, I will not be inclined to look at another since this car has all the features and upgrades that a driver could ask for. I pick it up Friday.

neuroguy · September 2003

Does anyone know if the 2004 ES has a tire pressure monitoring system? I believe it's required on 10% of '04s, increasing each year thereafter (35% '05s, 65% '06s, 100% '07s), per the U.S. federal "TREAD" act mentioned here:
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/view/93/1/1/
--unless this bit of the act has been deferred or postponed. If so, is it a direct or indirect system? If not, has anyone had one of these TPMSs after-market installed on their car? And, does it work well and was it worth it?

jenchienchang · October 2003

I am having CD player problem lately. It has difficulty loading/unloading CDs. The first 4 CDs were loading and playing just fine yet the 5th one was stucked during the loading process. I took it to a dealership and they replaced the whole unit but was broken again only after one day of use. It used to work flawlessly for the past year. I am wondering if anybody had experienced the similar problem and would appreciate very much for your suggestions.

In addition, I have also updated the transmission
and it did remedy the slight shuttering problem during gear shift quite a bit.

smaben · October 2003

DOE'S ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WEB SITE. HAS ANYONE USED THIS IF SO HOW WAS YOU'RE EXPERIENCE.

lexusrock · October 2003

Anyone installed door edge molding or the like on your Lexus to protect car doors from chipping? Does Lexus actully supply that kind of parts? I am not sure if these molding things will get to the paint by itself anyway.

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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