Lexus ES 300/ES 330

dwarnacutt · December 2004

Hi Charlie:

I bought a 2005 ES330 last Saturday and have 350 miles on the car so far. Averaging 21.8 mpg (combination of city and highway miles). To see the specifics of my purchase see the price paid board (I don't want to get into trouble for posting on the wrong thread).

Good luck to you and happy holidays.

daisyman · December 2004

Maybe this has been covered before, but for the life of me I can't tell the difference between the Camry and ES 330 (On the road or in the parking lot).

How does Toyota (Lexus) manage to sell , at a premium, the ES

model. Are their big differences under the sheet metal?

What's the skinny?

maxhonda99 · December 2004

"but for the life of me I can't tell the difference between the Camry and ES 330 (On the road or in the parking lot)."

I would suggest to get a pair of glasses! lol.

edabramson · December 2004

Are you kidding? Have you examined each of them? Have you test drove them both? My sons in-laws had a Camry XLE and were always of the opinion they were the same. Since then, they leased the ES and now state there is indeed a world of difference. At the dealership, the difference becomes even more pronounced. The keyword is QUALITY. Lexus gives you a super helping.

geaux1 · December 2004

My Mom has a '99 ES with 25k miles. Yes, 25k. She's followed the maintenance schedule according to mileage, but I wonder if she should be following the "time" schedule. I don't have acess to a routine maint. schedule, does anyone have a link to one? Any suggestions on what should be done by the six year mark. I thinking all belts and hoses at least. Brake fluid perhaps? Thanks everyone, ep.

maxhonda99 · December 2004

Your mom should be following the time schedule and not the mileage schedule. She should be getting oil changes every 6 months at least. Also remember the 99 ES300 engine is one of those engines that has had oil sludging problems.

I think at this point if it hasn't been done, alot of fluids should definately be changed, especially brake fluid, transmission fluid, coolant. As for belts, you should have them checked before getting them changed.

geaux1 · December 2004

Thanks for the feedback. I reviewed the service with her tonight and it's had a oil changes every eight to ten months with the 15k service done at 15k. I'll bring it in for the 30,000 / major service and a likely transmission fluid change when I'm home next week. I'll have here follow the time schedule a bit more closely from here out.

gratz · December 2004

My third Lexus is a 2004 ES330. It is the worst car I have ever owned. When you lift the foot off the accelerator, the car slows rapidly. Three times I nearly got rear ended. Then at about 18 mph, it jumps and goes into a normal coasting. Lexus says this is "normal". But it does it to varying degrees. Sometimes not at all. How can that be normal? Friends that have driven it have nicknamed it the "Lurch". Have 6K on it, but if something doesn't change, I am going to Infiniti or Acura NOW. It is better than getting killed by a close following vehicle.

donegal · December 2004

Traded my 2002 ES300, with 27,500 miles, for a 2005 ES330. Averaged 28 to 29 on highway travel with the 2002 ES300. ES330, only 1,000 miles, averaging for highway travel around 27 mph so far. Extremely happy with both cars.

carlo · December 2004

I too have a problem with the transmission on my ES330, sometime it seems to skip an than suddenly jump into gear. This is a very dangerous situation, when merging onto a major highway. The dealer said there is nothing they can do to correct this problem, I am waiting on a call from Lexus to see if they, "can make me happy". I intend on filing a Florida Lemon Law complaint, I feel this is a very unsafe situation. I am looking for other people with similar complains.

silleck330 · December 2004

Tranny hassles or not this car rules and truly is a plush, excellent driving , solid car. A good driver can easily compensate for the transmission issue. I would buy another if I could.

georgeb7 · December 2004

silleck330....

Your statement "Tranny hassles or not"

is rediculous. If you purchase a car for $35,000 or more and the transmission does not work properly, you got ripped-off. Obviously, the engine and the transmission are the most important components of the vehicle. Your interior comforts are always secondary if you can't get to point B reliably.

priggly · December 2004

How many out there with a 2004 or 2005 ES 330 have a defective transmission? Is it a very widespread problem? Have any of you who have a defective transmission received any satisfaction from Lexus in either successfully repairing your car or replacing it with a brand new car which does not have the problem?

Why is the Mark Levinson audio system only available as part of an expensive equipment package and not as a stand-alone option?

Thanks.

silleck330 · December 2004

My experience is that the transmission could be smoother but does not rise to "Defective". If driven properly the transmission works perfectly on my car. It sounds like your transmission problems are more severe than mine.

As I stated in my previous post my 2005 ES 330 is a superb vehicle and I have no complaints.

carlo · December 2004

You need to worry more about the transmission, than of the mileage.

igiban · December 2004

For those who got Toyo J33 summer tires with your 02+ ES can you share with the mileage it was when the tires were quite worn-out and ready for replacements? Summer tires wear faster than all season but is 20K-miles-only life normal?

mrdlexus · December 2004

I had a 2004 ES330 and it had horrible hesitation issues. I called Lexus customer service several times with no help offered. The last time I contacted them they blatantly stated that the car was operating as designed and that there was nothing more they could do for me. But they did give me a phone number in case I wanted to go through arbitration with them. Basically I got the royal screw job. As for one of the other posters on this board that states you should alter your driving habits to minimize the hesitation problems, I think that person should have their head examined!!! You purchased a new car you should expect it to be flawless, this is not a Kia.

Also just a side note the all new Toyota Avalon is getting a new solid state electronically controlled throttle system, perhaps the ES330 drive by wire throttle system is problematic!!! The Avalon Limited edition will be nicer that the ES330 WITH A 270+ hp. engine and less $$$$$$. In my opinion don't buy the ES330 or you will regret it every time you press the accelerator. Good Luck!

priggly · December 2004

Hi mrdlexus, thanks for the advice. This car (Lexus ES330) sounds inherently defective and I think I'll stay away from it. Addtionally, I don't like the way the ML sound system is bundled with additional tiered options as part of a package in order to jack up the price. It should be a stand-alone option, of course.

kennyg5 · December 2004

Mrdlexus, would you please elaborate on the "new solid state electronically controlled throttle system" referred to in your post?

I believe the "drive by wire throttle" system has an inherent design flaw as most cars built with such system invariably have hesitation problems during accelaration. For example, in the past 13 years I have owned three Maximas, and my 03 Max (the only one with drive by wire) has a slight acceleration hesitation, but definitely not as bad as that described by some of the posters here.

Although the Nissan dealer acknowledged the hesitation problem, I was told that "that is how drive by wire operates." If that is indeed true, why would a manufacturer put in a throttle system that is defective? Is this system cheaper to make and install? Any thoughts and comments?

mrdlexus · December 2004

I could not comment on any Nissan's since I have never owned one, but the ES330 I can comment on. This was not barely noticeable hesitation, this was full blown why isn't the car moving yet, type of hesitation. It was so bad that passengers wondered what was wrong with my car, because it jerked them around during shifts and the tranny shifting made weird noises. The problem was not there 100% of the time, but enough to make you think every time you started from a stop, or tried to merge into traffic.

As far as the new Avalon system you can check it out at the Toyota website. Many future Avalon customers are greatly concerned that the redesigned model will have the problematic throttle system that is used in the ES, but Toyota goes to great lengths to specifically state "all new solid state". We'll see but I would not hold my breath!!

I think the ES was a good overall car, but would be the best car for its price if Lexus/Toyota could fix this nagging transmission/throttle problem. I have never driven a car before that has so much delay "built in" to the throttle system. Every person that drove my ES commented on it. I did not tell them the problem, I just wanted to find out if I was imagining things or not. Truth be told, test drive the ES if you can live with it then buy it, the hesitation will affect people in different ways. I clearly noticed it, while others may not. Simply put, when I press the accelerator I expect the car to move, not wait 1- 1.5 seconds to decide if it wants to move. The ES is not a high performance car but should be able to handle normal driving conditions.

I had a 1999 Camry V6 XLE that was smoother and quieter than the ES330, just not as luxiourous. Test drive the ES and look for the hesitation, I'll guarantee you will notice it.

Just remember if you end up buying the ES don't think you will get your money back, Lexus won't even admit there is a problem. One day they will fix it and probably not say a word, hopefully someone on one of there boards will keep us posted. If they ever fix this problem I would but the car again, but if not then never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

clocurto · December 2004

I have the creaking problem in the passenger seat as well. i'm going to tell them to remove the alignment pins at my 5K check up this month. Did the dealer remove from the drivers seat pins as well? im guessing i should tell them to before making a 2nd trip.

Thanks for the post!

gratz · December 2004

Just remember to report this defect to the NHSTA. I did when I was told the car was acting normal. If enough Lexus owners complain, Lexus will have to look at the problem instead of sweeping it under the rug. Many ask me about my third Lexus. I tell them not to touch one with a ten foot pole or they will get bit. Let's face it. What once was a great car is now a danger and an irritant. Lexus has the name, but not the product.

morehp · December 2004

At first I thought that some owners must be overly sensitive to a minor quirk of the drive-by-wire system exhibited by all Lexus/Toyota models so equipped.

After reading through a few of these posts I realize I must have been mistaken. A 1-1.5 sec hesitation is a serious issue. So is jerking passengers around and making strange noises.

We have an 04 ES330 that does none of that. The only driveability issue occurs when getting back onto the gas after executing a "rolling stop." If you're not smooth getting back on the gas, the car will accelerate somewhat abruptly (not THAT bad though) after a very brief delay (a couple tenths of a second). Otherwise the car downshifts promptly at all speeds and never hesitates in other circumstances.

Could it be that only certain cars are affected? Could it have to do with the system "maladapting" to different drivers?

silleck330 · December 2004

Funny, I was just on a Honda Accord board

and the same "defective" transmission thread

is going strong there as well.

gratz · December 2004

How do you compensate for the tranmission when it jumps and slows down one time and jumps and speeds up the next? How do you guess what it is going to do?

savvybuyer · December 2004

Is transmission problem limited to '02-'04 or does it exist on '05 model as well?

edabramson · January 2005

I have a 05 ES since 11/11/04 and have not experienced any of the problems I have read about. The Transmission is as smooth as silk and acceleration is quite brisk from both a standing start and when passing. I don't know if the problem was addressed or if I am just lucky. A friend of mine leased one two weeks before I got mine and he isn't experiencing any problems either.

midnightcowboy · January 2005

I have a 93 ES300 with 80,000 miles. The dash lights are going out. The red inidcator on the water temperature no longer lights up.; this was okay. But now the red indicator on the speedometer no longer illuminates. Is there a light bulb that needs to be replaced. Is this a major dash disassembly job ?

Thanks,

MidCow

kennynmd · January 2005

I read on here somewhere that you can go to a toyota dealer and get a cabin air filter cheaPER. I was wondering since the ES300 is based on the Camry, do I just ask for a cabin air filter for a same year Camry?

philly2 · January 2005

In September I purchased the 2005 Lexus ES330. Last week I heard that there is a recall for seat belts front buckle assembly part and that dealers will replace the front passenger seatbelt buckle status switch. The recall began on December 20, 2004. Has anyone received a notice on this recall?

Thanks.

kennynmd · January 2005

I have a 03 es300 with 17k miles on it. Recently while braking there is a slight vibration in the steering wheel. After looking through several posts here, I noticed that some dealers replaced them under warranty. For the ones that had them replaced under warranty, how much did you have to go through to get them replaced since it is a normal "wear and tear item". Thanks

peterpan · January 2005

I tested the 05 ES330 and there is indeed a 1-2 sec delay when I stepped on the accel after a stop.

At the next stop I stepped harder on the accel. The car had a shorter delay then lurched forward strongly and jerkily. The jerky motion can be very annoying if you do it every few minutes in stop and go traffic. The GS300 and IS300 are OTH a lot smoother.

During the delay, the throttle was not revved up, so I tend to believe the problem was the electronic throttle control, not the auto transmission. Strangely, the 05 Camry has the same electronic throttle but I never found the delay, nor I have heard any complaint.

This unpredictable 1-2 sec delay in acceleration from a stop can be dangerous when one try to merge into fast-moving freeway traffic.

carzzz · January 2005

Here is a consumer rated ES330 at edmund!

Date Posted

07/10/2004 acceleration very poor by seawolf

Style: 4dr Sedan (3.3L 6cyl 5A) Rating 6.6

Review: The new and "improved" computer controlled throttle is dangerous. The vehicle hesitates for one to two seconds whenever the accelerator is pressed; generally, when you need to move out or over, there is no pick up at all. Even the Lexus mechanics told me they would not drive it.

Suggested Improvements: recall it

just wondering who would want to drive it if "the Lexus mechanics told me(owner) they would not drive it."

carzzz · January 2005

There is also a hesitation occur in the camry as well, both V6 and L4!

Camry Problem and solution on post #2809

#2809 of 2810 Re: 2005 SE V6 problems [commish1] by ski Jan 05, 2005 (8:23 pm)

Reply

I have the same exact problem on my 05 V6 LE that I bought in late Sept. Noticed the problem with in a day or two, wish I would've noticed it on the test drive. Lived with it for about 1500 mi, then took it in. Was told same thing as you except to give it a while longer to "learn my driving habits." Well, it must be a slow learner, took it back in yesterday with 3400 mi, started to get the same answer, pressed them, and was introduced to the head technician, who had driven my car, noticed the same thing I was and gave me same electronic throttle/computer explanation - "normal for the 05 V6, within limits." What!? I pulled out a print out from this forum with all of the similiar complaints, and some solutions. Unfortunately, non of the solutions applied to an 05 V6 5SPD Auto which I'm guessing must be different in some way from previous years. Anyway, my frusteration started to show and the head tech broke down and said "ok, look, you're not the only one, I must give this explanation 6 times a day - I've entered this problem in the computer so many times, way over the threshold for Toyota to start working on a solution. I'm sure they're working on it and should have a TIS or TSP (I think) out within a few months. I seen similiar stuff with other first year models/technologies and Toyota will come out with a fix." Don't know what to say, can't stand driving this car, but like it other than the hesitations. I too thought I'd own this car for a long time but spend a lot of time thinking about what I could get to replace it. Will be patient for a time, but it's running out.



Ski

Toyota camry on post #7337

#7337 of 7436 Downshift, baby! by slimwolf77 Dec 06, 2004 (1:14 pm)

Reply

As others have noted in earlier post, the new 5speed auto Camry(4cyl) can leave one wanting in certain situations. It can take a full 1.5-3 seconds for the transmission to automatically drop two gears when you hit the floor. This could lead to a potential [non-permissible content removed] ramming if you attempt a lane change at the wrong moment. The tranny is clearly programmed for economy driving. Not that I have a problem with that but...



The solution to this, of course, is to shift manually down to third. Depending on the speed you are traveling, this can still take some time, but it will be noticeably quicker. This is all assuming you've planned your acceleration burst ahead of time.



So what's my point? I guess it's that the whole slow shift thing isn't big deal on a 20K economy minded sedan. Especially if you're a smart driver. Check six.

lexus_owner · January 2005

I just bought a 2005 Lexus ES330, with heated front seats. The seats are extremely uncomfortable, in that they are hard and almost feel like you are sitting on a small rock. Has anyone else had this problem?

bosoxfan1 · January 2005

I had a 95 ES which had the same problem. I got a quote from the dealer, which was more than $900. The entire instrument cluster had to be replaced. They told me the cost of the cluster and the labor involved is what made it so expensive. I ended up not getting it done and later sold the vehicle to a private party.

about2buy · January 2005

I purchased a 2005 ES330 in late September. The first 800-1000 miles I noticed the hesitation problem that is referenced in many of these postings. The problem was especially noticeable when trying to accelerate away after a "rolling stop."

I complained to the dealer and was advised to "drive the car harder" which sounded pretty silly to me. According to the dealer it could take up to 3000 miles for the computerized transmission to "learn" your driving patterns.

I did drive the car harder by accelerating somewhat harder from stops, etc. Amazingly after about 1000 miles the hesitation problems vanished and the car drives perfectly well.

As to the recall notice for the passenger side seatbelt buckle switch...I did receive it in the mail today but it doesn't sound like being of great urgency unless you use the front passenger seat to hold a child safety seat.

kreativ · January 2005

============================

I read on here somewhere that you can go to a toyota dealer and get a cabin air filter cheaPER. I was wondering since the ES300 is based on the Camry, do I just ask for a cabin air filter for a same year Camry?

============================

It is part # 87139-YZZ03, and you can get it from either a Toyota or Lexus dealer (same part #). Whether you get it at a Toyota or Lexus dealer, it comes in the same, red Toyota box. My local Lexus dealer charges over list price for parts.

bikegal · January 2005

Quick questions,about2buy:

How many miles do you have now? Are you confident the problem won't return?

about2buy · January 2005

Now have almost 4700 miles on the car.

While I have no way of assuring that the problem won't return, it hasn't been an issue in almost 4000 miles of local/highway driving so I see no reason for it to reoccur again. At least I certainly hope it doesn't become an issue.

Other than the initial hesitation issue the car has been totally trouble free.

igiban · January 2005

Wood wheels on Lexus look nice but compared to leather wheels, it's certainly more dent or scratch-prone. Anyone ever got some dents or scratches by seat belt buckles, watches, rings,.... and know a way to 'touch it up'?

scoti1 · January 2005

Things were getting a little feisty in the Highlander Problems and Solutions board on the issue of the hesitation problems. The hosts decided to start a new discussion so that the issue did not dominate that board. The new board is Engine Hesitation (All makes/models) under Maintenance and Repair.

"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)" #21, 6 Jan 2005 5:59 pm

Because the Lexus and Toyota lines are essentially one and the same, I thought this new discussion would be of interest to some on this board.

moxie · January 2005

Hi All!

Toyota unveiled the new Avalon at the Detroit Auto Show today and I believe it goes on sale sometime next month. It has a 3.5 litre V6 with 280 horsepower and 260+ pounds of torque.

I was all set to trade my Camry XLE in on a new ES330 (which I LOVE) but now will have to wait and drive the Avalon for comparison ! Does anyone think that Lexus will have to go to the 3.5 engine for 2006 model year (or before) to stay in a competitive power range with Avalon, Acura TL, Infiniti G35 ... etc?

midnightcowboy · January 2005

bosoxfan1,

Thanks for your response. I was afraid that was going to be the answer. Oh well, I can judge the speed from the tach or turn on my Garmin 2610 GPS.

Thanks,

MidCow

bluesman3 · January 2005

Yes, I believe the 06' ES 350 will have the 3.5 V6. I'm rather disappointed in the Avalon Touring, there's too much missing from the option list for me. I trust the ES 350 would have all the goodies and I don't mind paying extra for the name plate to get them.

I'm not sure why Toyota doesn't see it that way with the Avalon.....

willizannah · January 2005

i purchased a 300es just before thanksgiving. yesterday oxygen sensor #3 malfunctioned and must be replaced. anyone had similar problems? i'm wondering what might be causing malfunction. don't want to just keep replacing sensors.

kreativ · January 2005

It is doubtful we'll see a new ES until at least '07 model year.

The repeated pattern has been a 5-year cycle consisting of powertrain changes in the 3rd year and a minor style refresh in the 4th year.

moxie · January 2005

Hi! - I'm newbie here - planning to buy an ES330. Would like to know if there are other Lexus discussion boards that I should visit.

Thanks.

bluesman3 · January 2005

We can't tell you, it's against the Edmund forum rules. I'll get a nasty gram from the moderator again.........

bluesman3 · January 2005

OK, we'll see what happens next January....

Lexus ES 300/ES 330

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