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Lexus ES 300/ES 330
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Comments
At that time, Lexus sent a letter to 2002 and 2003 owners offering them a temporary firmware fix. (Check out the Sept 2003 discussions on the "ES300 Transmission Problem" thread.)
My service rep told me that Lexus was going to see whether it improved things prior to deciding whether to implement it in new vehicles. The service rep told me that the temporary fix improved things at the lower stop-and-go speeds, but negatively impacted highway driving. Lexus owners needed to "pick their poison" so to speak. The service told me that once I implemented the fix, I could not go back, so I never implemented it.
My question has to do with whether Lexus implemented the fixed firmware in their new vehicles. If so, that would explain why there is noticeable difference among vehicles. Case in point is that I am not hearing about the jerky start and stop symptoms in the 2004/2005s, as I did in the 2002/2003s. I am hearing more about highway behavior, which indicates that Lexus put the fix into newer cars.
Does anyone have the answer to this question? For those 2002/2003 owners who had the fix, does it impact your driving? If so, how?
"Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"
I posed the question there if anyone has heard of the new TSB. I am pretty sure that there is a lag from when a TSB is issued and when it shows up at NHTSA and other websites.
I've done good research and all bottom up to an excellent car. I for one love mines I have the 2004 es330 and its great in all, its fast but I want more speed, looking for some superchip, no luck yet. Go for it!!! :shades:
Any Upgrades out there for the ES330 2004 ECU, like Superchip anything to boost up the HP a little.
Appreciate your help.
Comfort, refinement, features/amenities and safety are the car's strongest suits. Along with reliability and durability... I wouldn't have any doubts about the car holding up over the years. Lexus cars are, painting in broad strokes, the best built in the world.
Styling is of course a personal matter but I think the exterior is not bad (a bit bland and slab-sided) and the interior is gorgeous.
Also, our '93 Camry endured > 150K miles commuting over some pretty rough midwestern roads. No suspension/front end problems.
I have been looking at buying a new car for a long time now. I've looked at Audi A6's, BMW's, Lexus and Toyota Camry. The A6 is a little out of range for me and would have to really squeeze my monthly budget to make that payment even at 2.9% APR. If it had not been for my bro, I would have never looked at LExus ES 330, but now, I am hesitating to make my decision based on the hesitation problem described in the forum. I drove a couple last week and they seemed to have been cruising fine. Can anyone tell me what to look for (in respect to this problem) from the dealer when buying this car? I am trading off by not buying an Audi but buying ES 330 which is a fully loaded CAMRY for a higher price. I guess there is the goodwill and status you always pay price for. Do you guys think it is worth to pay 7K more on ES330? :confuse:
Only you can answer that.
As to the hesitation, not all of them have it. Some owners say it started soon after leaving the dealership. Do a forum search. Good luck.
I disagree that the hesitation problem does not exist on all vehicles. The problem is a design problem, not a manufacturer's defect, which indicates that the defect is in all vehicles. I do agree that various owners experience the problem differently, and some owners don't perceive the problem at all.
The safe way to view this is that if some 2005 ES330s have the problem, then they all do. Whether or not a given driver will uncover the symptoms is another issue. Of course, since owners seem to discover the symptoms at different points in the vehicle life cycle, there is no guarantee that you will detect the problem during a test drive.
I am really disappointed with my 2005 ES330. There is so much that is so right with this car, but the jerky transmission -- and therefore the overall driving experience -- sours the whole thing for me.
Martin
I will not rule out the ES330 because I at least want to test drive it when I'm ready to buy. And I think I'm going to put a checklist of things together first so that each vechile I compare will be judged the same way. As of right now the 2006 Impala SS is my leading candidate, followed by the 06 Grand Prix GXP, followed by the Hemi 300C (2006 Charger is my favorite of all but they know where they can shove their RWD assembly). Of course I'm still expecting Lexus to push all of these others out of the way....we'll just have to see.
I'm sure Avalon and Camry are excellent cars but they are road versions of Meryl Streep...and I like my Pamela Andersons more....
I think you are on track here. I have an '05 330 with a January build date, and I have spent considerable time trying to verify oradmeddoc's report of an April 1 TSB that fixed his problem. Having not turned up anything on this board or on the TSB tracking Edmund's board, I called my Lexus service manager and he said there is nothing new out there addressing 330 throttle response. Nothing came in on April 1 in this department.
He said if you have an '04 or '05, the "fix" has already been incorporated. I never drove an earlier model so I can't compare, but the '05 demo I drove before I made my purchase and the car I own now don't seem to have a significant problem. There is a throttle-response issue compared to cars with non-DBW interfaces, but it's not something that ruins my day.
My service manager speculated that oralmeddoc's computer was simply reprogrammed, and that if his driving style is not sufficiently varied, he will be back where he started before long. He said the demonstrator was driven by different drivers and with different driving styles, causing the computer to avoid settling on a pattern that many would find offensive.
(Having said that, I don't do the kind of stop-and-go, bumper-to-bumper driving that sandiegodriver probably has to contend with, so maybe I have just not encountered a driving situation that would make me want to find the nearest cliff. Would that be La Jolla?)
To newbuyer3, I agree with bikergal whose own good experience is similar to mine: drive the car for yourself until you are satisfied that you have done all you can to replicate the problems you have read about on this board.
My wife is the primary driver and for me safety, quality components, performance and styling were all considerations. We were set on the new Avalon until we looked at it in person, drove it, and then drove the 330 for the first time. The Avalon is a fine car as motownusa points out, but it did not have the fit, finish, and stylistic balance of the 330...for us.
For now, my wife drives the car in her typically laid-back fashion and is oblivious to all of the concerns that other drivers have had. I am more demanding and realize the car could be more responsive, like the cars I have driven all my life. But, hey, this is not the TL we test drove and it never was intended to be. I intend to push the car every time I drive it since the learning effect makes sense to me.
I wholeheartedly support the continued complaints by those whose cars are not living up to their expectations. Most of us would do no less.
I will report back my experiences, and I encourage other '05 owners to do the same.
If it's any help, the paperwork I got from the service rep lists " tsb for trans op code eg5017/830991 reprogramming trans ecu/ 531 W".for the first week or so after they erased the memory, the smoothness was maintained. However, after that I resumed my normal commute in stop and go Capitol Beltway trafffic, and some of the jerkiness/gear hunting returned within a day or two. It's still better than before the "Fix", but it has degraded somewhat.
It's still a great car, and I'm not especially displeased with the occasional jerkiness. AS I said at my first post, I hadn't even noticed it until after driving the loaner.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05102/486687.stm
To get what the average poster is getting (90% MSRP) your car would have to have had an MSRP of only $25000, which I don't believe any ES330 has right now.
To see if you got the kind of deal that the average poster on this board, calculate the following:
(MSRP-Discount)/MSRP = x. x should be .89 - .90 or less to get as good or better deals than many of the posters are getting, without going through clubs and without a lot of negotiating.
Like you, I purchased my car through Sam's Club, and found I paid about the same price as others on this board, most of whom did not go through Sam's or Costo or whatever.
My gut tells me the best way to do this is that you build the car you want online, establishing a baseline price for it, and have diffferent dealers compete for your money. Believe me these people have been around for centuries...I think they pass their spirits from one body to the next...they've got every angle figured out before you walk in the door (try trading a car in if you want to see the full trade in motion)...you may get a good deal but it will mean you worked overtime for it.
Thanks for the link. I emailed a question to Lexus asking them about the corresponding TSB, if any. Will report when I get an answer.
If you want more information, stop by our Technical Service Bulletins discussion. 0patience and/or alcan will get you the entire text of any one that interests you.
Thanks for posting the PDF file of the updated TSB! How did you manage to find it on your own?
Let's hope this update is more successful than the original one in solving the driveability issues!
The reason I care is that I believe that owners who deny the problem are not helping the rest of us get our cars fixed. Also, owners who do not feel symptoms help perpetrate the view that some vehicles have the problem and others don't.
Note that I greatly appreciate your efforts in locating the TSB info. But I for one would like to hear both of you admit that you feel the symptoms.
My question is if it is true that by April 2006 the model of Lexus ES 3xx will have totally different style (appearence).
Any one knows it? I would like to wait for new body style if in 11 months the ES 3xx 's body will be different. I do not want to buy a car whose look will be "out of date" that soon.
Thank you for your information.
Even if MSRP is only slightly higher, the lack of discounting and cut rate leases will make it much more expensive.
At the end of a 3 year lease of an ES330, you can move on to the new design if you still want it and the new ES model should be well discounted by then and maybe even have a few refinements and new features compared to the initial 2007 model.
The new Lexus ES350 should be hitting the dealerships in March of 2006. I would wait 11 months to at least see if paying a little more for a y2007 wll be worth it, rather than buying the current MY ES330 that may potentially have transmission issues. just MHO.
Many people notice nothing wrong during test drives or they wouldn't have purchased the cars. Weeks or months later, they start complaining.
shifting but works just fine for my driving habits. When I do stomp on the pedal
there is no noticeable hesitation and she takes right off. I would not hesitate to
buy another.
Running from the current ES330 to an unproven, all-new design to escape mechanical problems doesn't make sense especially if they ever get a fix to the current hesitation issue.
Also, even if the tranny issue is solved with the new design, the car is an all new design that may have new problems not related to the transmission that may take a while to show up.