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Lexus ES 300/ES 330

19091939596105

Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Okay, go ahead and drop by that discussion I linked and see if they know of one.
  • oralmeddocoralmeddoc Member Posts: 13
    Out of curiosity, I checked the NHTSA website and no TSB is listed for the 2005 ES. Either the TSB is so new (service writer told me it hit the dealership Friday 4/1 at 1700) that it hasn't been posted yet, or in fact it was some kind of April Fool's joke and there is no TSB, but they can erase the transmission memory somehow, and that's what's causing the different throttle/transmission characteristics. Either way, it's still very smooth today with no degradation from when I first got it back Saturday afternoon.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    You may want to check whether there was a TSB issued around Aug - Sept 2003 on the 2002 and 2003 ES300 transmissions.

    At that time, Lexus sent a letter to 2002 and 2003 owners offering them a temporary firmware fix. (Check out the Sept 2003 discussions on the "ES300 Transmission Problem" thread.)

    My service rep told me that Lexus was going to see whether it improved things prior to deciding whether to implement it in new vehicles. The service rep told me that the temporary fix improved things at the lower stop-and-go speeds, but negatively impacted highway driving. Lexus owners needed to "pick their poison" so to speak. The service told me that once I implemented the fix, I could not go back, so I never implemented it.

    My question has to do with whether Lexus implemented the fixed firmware in their new vehicles. If so, that would explain why there is noticeable difference among vehicles. Case in point is that I am not hearing about the jerky start and stop symptoms in the 2004/2005s, as I did in the 2002/2003s. I am hearing more about highway behavior, which indicates that Lexus put the fix into newer cars.

    Does anyone have the answer to this question? For those 2002/2003 owners who had the fix, does it impact your driving? If so, how?
  • scoti1scoti1 Member Posts: 676
    There is a Hesitation discussion at Edmunds (called Engine Hesitation, although all the discussion there is related to the transmission hesitation, not just experienced in the ES300/330, but other models as well):

    "Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)"

    I posed the question there if anyone has heard of the new TSB. I am pretty sure that there is a lag from when a TSB is issued and when it shows up at NHTSA and other websites.
  • rick_prrick_pr Member Posts: 2
    Guy,

    I've done good research and all bottom up to an excellent car. I for one love mines I have the 2004 es330 and its great in all, its fast but I want more speed, looking for some superchip, no luck yet. Go for it!!! :shades:
  • rick_prrick_pr Member Posts: 2
    Hi All,

    Any Upgrades out there for the ES330 2004 ECU, like Superchip anything to boost up the HP a little.
  • navyguy1990navyguy1990 Member Posts: 71
    I have a 2001 ES300, and was wondering if anybody had to replace their lightbulbs. I read in the owner's manual that the low-beam light bulbs were H7, and I tried to replace them with no success.
    Appreciate your help.
  • morehpmorehp Member Posts: 30
    Well, if by "performance" you mean handling/roadholding, speed... that sort of thing... then I doubt the ES330 is your Lexus. Aside from the SUVs, it is the least sporty vehicle in the Lexus line. Check out the upcoming IS or, as your budget permits, the GS line. We have a 2004 ES330 and while it has many outstanding qualities, high performance is not one of them.

    Comfort, refinement, features/amenities and safety are the car's strongest suits. Along with reliability and durability... I wouldn't have any doubts about the car holding up over the years. Lexus cars are, painting in broad strokes, the best built in the world.

    Styling is of course a personal matter but I think the exterior is not bad (a bit bland and slab-sided) and the interior is gorgeous.

    Also, our '93 Camry endured > 150K miles commuting over some pretty rough midwestern roads. No suspension/front end problems.
  • newbuyer3newbuyer3 Member Posts: 1
    Friends,

    I have been looking at buying a new car for a long time now. I've looked at Audi A6's, BMW's, Lexus and Toyota Camry. The A6 is a little out of range for me and would have to really squeeze my monthly budget to make that payment even at 2.9% APR. If it had not been for my bro, I would have never looked at LExus ES 330, but now, I am hesitating to make my decision based on the hesitation problem described in the forum. I drove a couple last week and they seemed to have been cruising fine. Can anyone tell me what to look for (in respect to this problem) from the dealer when buying this car? I am trading off by not buying an Audi but buying ES 330 which is a fully loaded CAMRY for a higher price. I guess there is the goodwill and status you always pay price for. Do you guys think it is worth to pay 7K more on ES330? :confuse:
  • bikegalbikegal Member Posts: 50
    Do you guys think it is worth to pay 7K more on ES330?

    Only you can answer that.

    As to the hesitation, not all of them have it. Some owners say it started soon after leaving the dealership. Do a forum search. Good luck.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    Well, as my favorite CSI character says "Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there."

    I disagree that the hesitation problem does not exist on all vehicles. The problem is a design problem, not a manufacturer's defect, which indicates that the defect is in all vehicles. I do agree that various owners experience the problem differently, and some owners don't perceive the problem at all.

    The safe way to view this is that if some 2005 ES330s have the problem, then they all do. Whether or not a given driver will uncover the symptoms is another issue. Of course, since owners seem to discover the symptoms at different points in the vehicle life cycle, there is no guarantee that you will detect the problem during a test drive.
  • sandiegodriversandiegodriver Member Posts: 16
    My advice would be to buy some other car. Why take a chance buying a new ES330 that could have the awful transmission hesitation/surge problem that so many of us are experiencing? There are a lot of other great cars out there. For me, the Lexus transmission problem makes the car difficult to control, and the ride is anything but smooth at low speeds, especially in heavy traffic, because of the frequent hesitations/surges.

    I am really disappointed with my 2005 ES330. There is so much that is so right with this car, but the jerky transmission -- and therefore the overall driving experience -- sours the whole thing for me.
  • turnbowmturnbowm Member Posts: 76
    For me, it was a deal-breaker. If I could have bought a new ES330 with the styling and driveability of my wife's '98 ES300, it would have been a no-brainer! Can't believe how Lexus has screwed up the ES-series.

    Martin
  • cfazzaricfazzari Member Posts: 77
    I am certainly disappointed with what I'm reading on this forum. I realize this is a good place to discuss and maybe resolve some issues with some specific autos, but no one I've found in this forum is raving about this car!

    I will not rule out the ES330 because I at least want to test drive it when I'm ready to buy. And I think I'm going to put a checklist of things together first so that each vechile I compare will be judged the same way. As of right now the 2006 Impala SS is my leading candidate, followed by the 06 Grand Prix GXP, followed by the Hemi 300C (2006 Charger is my favorite of all but they know where they can shove their RWD assembly). Of course I'm still expecting Lexus to push all of these others out of the way....we'll just have to see.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Why not put the 05 Avalon on your list also ? Judging by all the reviews and the comments on the Avalon forum it seems one hell of a car. 280 Hp plus 31 mpg on the highway.
  • cfazzaricfazzari Member Posts: 77
    Several people have suggested the Avalon and the Camry. It's just a personal preference...I'm more into cars with a few more bumps and curves - Grand Prix GXP, Dodge Charger, Mustang, Impala SS, Mazda Speed 6....the ES330 only makes the list because it's a $33,000 Lexus....I'm not Ga-Ga over it's appearance.

    I'm sure Avalon and Camry are excellent cars but they are road versions of Meryl Streep...and I like my Pamela Andersons more....
  • jf02fwdjf02fwd Member Posts: 7
    Earlier you wrote: "My question has to do with whether Lexus implemented the fixed firmware in their new vehicles. If so, that would explain why there is noticeable difference among vehicles. Case in point is that I am not hearing about the jerky start and stop symptoms in the 2004/2005s."

    I think you are on track here. I have an '05 330 with a January build date, and I have spent considerable time trying to verify oradmeddoc's report of an April 1 TSB that fixed his problem. Having not turned up anything on this board or on the TSB tracking Edmund's board, I called my Lexus service manager and he said there is nothing new out there addressing 330 throttle response. Nothing came in on April 1 in this department.

    He said if you have an '04 or '05, the "fix" has already been incorporated. I never drove an earlier model so I can't compare, but the '05 demo I drove before I made my purchase and the car I own now don't seem to have a significant problem. There is a throttle-response issue compared to cars with non-DBW interfaces, but it's not something that ruins my day.

    My service manager speculated that oralmeddoc's computer was simply reprogrammed, and that if his driving style is not sufficiently varied, he will be back where he started before long. He said the demonstrator was driven by different drivers and with different driving styles, causing the computer to avoid settling on a pattern that many would find offensive.

    (Having said that, I don't do the kind of stop-and-go, bumper-to-bumper driving that sandiegodriver probably has to contend with, so maybe I have just not encountered a driving situation that would make me want to find the nearest cliff. Would that be La Jolla?)

    To newbuyer3, I agree with bikergal whose own good experience is similar to mine: drive the car for yourself until you are satisfied that you have done all you can to replicate the problems you have read about on this board.

    My wife is the primary driver and for me safety, quality components, performance and styling were all considerations. We were set on the new Avalon until we looked at it in person, drove it, and then drove the 330 for the first time. The Avalon is a fine car as motownusa points out, but it did not have the fit, finish, and stylistic balance of the 330...for us.

    For now, my wife drives the car in her typically laid-back fashion and is oblivious to all of the concerns that other drivers have had. I am more demanding and realize the car could be more responsive, like the cars I have driven all my life. But, hey, this is not the TL we test drove and it never was intended to be. I intend to push the car every time I drive it since the learning effect makes sense to me.

    I wholeheartedly support the continued complaints by those whose cars are not living up to their expectations. Most of us would do no less.

    I will report back my experiences, and I encourage other '05 owners to do the same.
  • oralmeddocoralmeddoc Member Posts: 13
    Hello,
    If it's any help, the paperwork I got from the service rep lists " tsb for trans op code eg5017/830991 reprogramming trans ecu/ 531 W".for the first week or so after they erased the memory, the smoothness was maintained. However, after that I resumed my normal commute in stop and go Capitol Beltway trafffic, and some of the jerkiness/gear hunting returned within a day or two. It's still better than before the "Fix", but it has degraded somewhat.
    It's still a great car, and I'm not especially displeased with the occasional jerkiness. AS I said at my first post, I hadn't even noticed it until after driving the loaner.
  • barry5barry5 Member Posts: 49
    I purchased the 330 a month ago. Prior to that I owned a 2001 LS430 Ultra. I needed a car to carry me over till the 2007 LS which is to be AWD and perhaps hybrid. The LS is a great car but bad in snow. I find the 330 good looking, no transmission problems, fast and comfortable. There is no torque steer and the FWD was great in snow. In essence 3,500 miles later I find no problems [except for some wind noise over the A pillars] and am very satisfied.
  • ruby1ruby1 Member Posts: 8
    I have an 2005 ES 330 that I purchased in August of 2004. I can tell you that I have the same problems that you are referring to in your email. At speeds between 15mph - 25mph, I get a jerking reaction from the car. It feels like the transmission is missing a step between (I'm assuming) first and second gear. This is driving me crazy because of the frequency that it occurs. My car is in the shop right now and they are going to reset it again for the second time to see if this helps the problem. I did notice that my car feels much slower than the "loaner ES 330's" that I've been given. Could this be possible? I don't know anything about engines.
  • ruby1ruby1 Member Posts: 8
    Consider yourself lucky. I have had multiple things wrong with my ES 330! I've had more rattles than a 6 month old baby. My car, which was brand new, has only 5,100 miles on it and it has been in the shop for a total of 16 days since August. My parents have 2 Lexus cars and have owned 3 with no problems. I think I got the lemon! They just had to replace my windshield because it was set a 16th of an inch to high at the factory, which caused a major rattle along the dashboard. I've had transmission problems, a rattle in the reading light and a tear upon delivery in the leather. The windshield was sub-jobed out and they put the RX 330 Trim Kit on and took 3 large chips of paint out of the metal. I have had multiple problems with McGrath Lexus service in Chicago.
  • ruby1ruby1 Member Posts: 8
    Has anyone else experienced a clicking noise coming from the navigation consul? It seems to happen most when I press on the gas pedal around 15 to 20mph. The unit can be turned off or on with no radio on or cd playing and I still hear it.
  • ruby1ruby1 Member Posts: 8
    I've had two Camry's prior to my ES 330. The ride and handling is superior to that of the Camry (LE). I have had more problems with my Lexus with rattles than I've ever had on the 4 Toyota's that I've owned. Honestly, I think I unfortunately got one of the very few lemons that roles off the Lexus assembly line. No hassle money saving tip when purchasing the car: If you are a member of Costco, you will get $2500 dollars off the sticker price. Just go to Costco.com and they will lead you to a dealership in your area that is aligned with them. It doesn't cost a thing and it's very simple to do. They have a large selection of cars and dealerships so you might find that you can save some money on the Audio as well.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    According to this article dated April 12 in a Pittsburgh newspaper, there may be a new transmission fix:

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05102/486687.stm
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Interesting article...thanks for the link, lenscap. This looks like a new upgrade, since it references 2002-2005 vehicles (the previous software upgrade came out in 2003 IIRC). With the previous upgrade, it was stated that you could only upgrade the software once and that was it. I wonder if this will prevent those who got the previous upgrade (which didn't seem to help much) from upgrading again.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    This is where % MSRP comes in handy. For a 35,000 car (MSRP), you got a price of (35,000 - 2500)/35000, which is approximately 93% MSRP - quite a bit more than the average poster on this board is paying,

    To get what the average poster is getting (90% MSRP) your car would have to have had an MSRP of only $25000, which I don't believe any ES330 has right now.

    To see if you got the kind of deal that the average poster on this board, calculate the following:

    (MSRP-Discount)/MSRP = x. x should be .89 - .90 or less to get as good or better deals than many of the posters are getting, without going through clubs and without a lot of negotiating.

    Like you, I purchased my car through Sam's Club, and found I paid about the same price as others on this board, most of whom did not go through Sam's or Costo or whatever.
  • cfazzaricfazzari Member Posts: 77
    This type of stuff goes on in all industries. The dealer will simply boost up the price somehow on the Costco buyer, and get his price anyway. Most if not all industries do this - Dell Offers free shipping on a computer (saving you say, $50) or they offer you a free CD Burner (Saving you the same $50) - But not both. My wife ordered a hutch on-line, with free shipping (saving her $200) and she found the same hutch from a different vendor for $200 cheaper (but the shipping was $200).

    My gut tells me the best way to do this is that you build the car you want online, establishing a baseline price for it, and have diffferent dealers compete for your money. Believe me these people have been around for centuries...I think they pass their spirits from one body to the next...they've got every angle figured out before you walk in the door (try trading a car in if you want to see the full trade in motion)...you may get a good deal but it will mean you worked overtime for it.
  • future1future1 Member Posts: 103
    Quote: According to this article dated April 12 in a Pittsburgh newspaper, there may be a new transmission fix: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05102/486687.stm

    Thanks for the link. I emailed a question to Lexus asking them about the corresponding TSB, if any. Will report when I get an answer.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    Is there still a site in which you can get a list of TSB numbers and titles? I remember I used to be able to get a TSB summary list through AllData, but don't see that option available anymore (at least not without charge).
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Costco and Sams Club services can't get you a lower price than you are really able to get negotiating on your own, but it saves you the time of fighting to get to the price.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Yes, right here. Go to this link and fill in the form: http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/MaintenanceServlet?tid=edmunds.a.advicelanding..8.1.*.

    If you want more information, stop by our Technical Service Bulletins discussion. 0patience and/or alcan will get you the entire text of any one that interests you.

    :)
  • future1future1 Member Posts: 103
    OK, after much of digging, I found that April 1st Lexus transmission TSB. Looks like it is a recent update to the TSB issued in August 2003. Since the update refers to the 2005 Lexus ES330 model as applicable, I'll have it done.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Thanks for posting that! Let us know how it goes.
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    pat - Thanks for the pointers and the links. Quite useful!
  • kreativkreativ Member Posts: 299
    future1 -

    Thanks for posting the PDF file of the updated TSB! How did you manage to find it on your own?

    Let's hope this update is more successful than the original one in solving the driveability issues!
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    What is the likelihood this old fix is going to cure the problem on the ES330 when I thought the problems still remain on the previous models it was tried on?
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I thought that neither of you experienced an iota of a transmission symptom in your vehicles? Why the focus on a fix then?

    The reason I care is that I believe that owners who deny the problem are not helping the rest of us get our cars fixed. Also, owners who do not feel symptoms help perpetrate the view that some vehicles have the problem and others don't.

    Note that I greatly appreciate your efforts in locating the TSB info. But I for one would like to hear both of you admit that you feel the symptoms.
  • czgczg Member Posts: 1
    I heard that by about April 2006 , there will be a 2007 model of Lexus ES 3xx (350?) . Then what about the 2006 model of Lexus ES330.

    My question is if it is true that by April 2006 the model of Lexus ES 3xx will have totally different style (appearence).
    Any one knows it? I would like to wait for new body style if in 11 months the ES 3xx 's body will be different. I do not want to buy a car whose look will be "out of date" that soon.

    Thank you for your information.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The 2007 ES will definitely will be an all design and powertrain. Toyota/Lexus usually sticks to the 5 year redesign cycle. I am almost 99% sure the engine would be the 3.5L that is found in the 05 Avalon. Hence, the name will most likely be ES 350. If I were in the market for the ES, I would skip the current generation and wait for the all new ES that would make its debut either in Spring or Fall of next year. Should be a vast improvement over the current ES.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    If they can fix the driveability problems and you can get a great lease deal, then a 2005 or 2006 is still worth getting since the 2007s will cost much more.
    Even if MSRP is only slightly higher, the lack of discounting and cut rate leases will make it much more expensive.
    At the end of a 3 year lease of an ES330, you can move on to the new design if you still want it and the new ES model should be well discounted by then and maybe even have a few refinements and new features compared to the initial 2007 model.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The ES 330 will become the ES 350 with a redesign scheduled to happen sometime between March-August of next year. Lexus applied to trademark the name ES 350 last month (because the 3.5 engine will replace the 3.3). The new design will bring the L-Finesse design philosophy to the ES.
  • kmg68kmg68 Member Posts: 108
    CZG

    The new Lexus ES350 should be hitting the dealerships in March of 2006. I would wait 11 months to at least see if paying a little more for a y2007 wll be worth it, rather than buying the current MY ES330 that may potentially have transmission issues. just MHO.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Looks like the new Avalon has similar transmission problems, so waiting for the ES350 may be pointless.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    I actually got a chance to test drive the new Avalon and didn't find any problem with the transmission whatsoever. Shifts are almost undetectable and if anything it might be too quick for most people, taking off like a mad horse when you press the gas pedal. I frequently check the Avalon board and just about all the real owners seem very happy.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    There was a review (USA Today?) that commented on the poor transmission performance of the new Avalon.
    Many people notice nothing wrong during test drives or they wouldn't have purchased the cars. Weeks or months later, they start complaining.
  • silleck330silleck330 Member Posts: 19
    My 2005 Classic Silver Metallic now has 3,500 miles and is the nicest car I have ever owned. I use it for highway back and forth between two residences. I look forward to those trips and enjoy the way this car drives. Tranny could be better
    shifting but works just fine for my driving habits. When I do stomp on the pedal
    there is no noticeable hesitation and she takes right off. I would not hesitate to
    buy another.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The new Avalon with the 3.5L V6 has a 5-speed automatic. You can bet the 2007 ES will get a 6-speed automatic transmission. So the Avalon's tranny problems(if it really does have any like the current ES) probably will not shift over to the new ES.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    It may have new problems.
    Running from the current ES330 to an unproven, all-new design to escape mechanical problems doesn't make sense especially if they ever get a fix to the current hesitation issue.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The 6-speed automatic is probably going to be shared with the IS350 as well as the GS300/350. So far, the GS300 with the 6-speed has not gotten any bad reviews about the transmission. Since the 3.5L V6 is from the same family as the 3.0L V6 in the GS300, the transmission will likely be the same.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    It's probably not going to have the same transmission as the IS and GS since the ES is front drive.
    Also, even if the tranny issue is solved with the new design, the car is an all new design that may have new problems not related to the transmission that may take a while to show up.
This discussion has been closed.