Mercedes-Benz S-Class

psedrish · March 2003

My wife drives an '02 M class, and the first day I drove it I was sure something was wrong with a window seal or something similar. Nope....it's a design flaw. My S class is a coffin compared to the M, but it doesn't seem to bother my wife at all.

rgilbane · March 2003

am currently driving a 2001 bmw 740 il. am considering the 2003 4 matic 430 or 500 series. test drove the 500 not as sporty as the 740li but seats are more comfortable. not as much trunk room.
Any positive or negative experiences with the 2003 430 or 500 series?

daughertynd · March 2003

Our 2002 S500 has had to be towed in 3 times since last summer due to electrical malfunctions. Is this a common occurence?

airdam · March 2003

I need to replace the ashtray unit in my S-Class. Does anyone know how to dismantle the center console so that I can replace the unit? I found the 4 Torx bolts that hold the rear part of the console but cannot seem to figure out how to unbolt the front section.

any advice will be much appreciated.

ejerod · April 2003

I had a 2001 S500 with all the toys. I had so many problems with that car that I took it back . The dealer was more than magnanimous with me. The car had nearly 50k miles when I took it back and the dealer gave me about 10k over book for it to get me out of the car. The first thing I noticed was that the fuel gage wouldn't register full. Then the tail lamps kept blowing out. Then they had to replace the entire COMAND unit, then the airmatic suspension went out, then finally the exhaust system catalytic converter had to be replaced. What I did was write a letter to MB headquarters in Germany to the CEO. Then I wrote my state automotive board ( we have a lemon law in VA) Then I wrote the owner of the dealership and sent him copies of the letters I wrote to said people. I got a call from the regional manager and he came down to meet with me. In addition to the 10 k over book they gave me, he knocked an additional 3 k off the 2002 S500 I traded the 2001 in for. When you invest anywhere from 78-100k+ for an automobile, you expect excellent performance and no headaches. I would advise you to take action and not accept the dealer's excuses. The new S class is working superbly. I also purchased the new 03 SL500 which hasn't given me a single problem in over 11k miles. MB makes and excellent product and is a world leader, but even they are human and ever so often they produce a lemon just like everyone else. Good luck.....

pzachary · April 2003

I'm thinking of purchasing a 2001 S430 with Sport Package and the larger tires on the rear. What sort of mileage can I expect (without the ability to rotate)? Anything else I need to know before I drop $62,000? I currently own an E430 Sport.

Thanks,

Phil in North Carolina

gjs55 · April 2003

I have a 2001 s55 that has been in the shop twice for abnormal firing of the drivers side rear airmatic. It just goes off and raises the rear corner of the car several inches in an explosive fashion. The first time they replaced the hydraulics, the second time they replace the"sender" . The problem went away for a little while and now is back. It is warming up here and I wonder if it is temperature related. Anyone have any ideas?

mbnut1 · April 2003

Sounds like a control problem. They may need to replace a computor, a sensor, or some wiring.

daughertynd · April 2003

Thank you for your input. We are in Virginia also and have consulted with an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law. We are sending a letter to MB USA with a copy to the dealership. Our 2002 has approximately 20k miles to date, and we are very disappointed in it and do not think it is a reliable vehicle. Hopefully we will be able to work this out with MB.

sclass2000 · April 2003

I took delivery of my 2000 S430 in March of 1999 so I expected a few "new model" problems. The car has been a marvel to drive, but a too frequent visitor to the MBZ service dept. I have had the usual gamut of Command Center issues including AM radio that can't pickup a station, hands free cell phone that has people telling me I'm in a 55 gallon drum and numerous other "malfunctions". Most disconcerting however is the recent failure of the airmatic suspension system. The compressor failed to turn off upon return to my garage one evening. It ran for 3 hours until the MBZ truck arrived and told me that I should probably take it to the dealer in the AM. While driving to the dealer the next morning (4 miles), the entire suspension collapsed and I became the 1st S-Class owner ever to be named "Low Rider". Although the car was a few thousand miles out of warranty, MBZ picked up $3500 of the $43oo repair. Last month, a few months after the initial airmatic failure, the dealer told me that I had a hairline crack in one of the two front shocks. The shocks were only $1250.00 each and the labor was $400. The $2900 bill cost me after additional MBZ involvement, a "mere" $700. Although my car has 68000 miles, I think failures of this magnitude are outrageous. I've driven MBZ for years and probably will continue to. What I WONT do is keep the next Benz past the 4yr/50 period.

ejerod · April 2003

You can expect between 20-25k miles out of those tires if you're not a hard driver. By that I mean you don't drive like Speed Racer.. lol. One word of caution. When you do replace a tire for whatever reason, go ahead and replace both, i.e. front or rear. I didn't do that on the first S500 I had. I picked up a nail in the sidewall of one of the rear tires when I had only 5k miles on the car. I bought one tire trying to be cheap ( 100k car and I didn't want to spend another 300 bucks for a tire.. stupid huh ? ) I didn't, the tires wore unevenly and developed a bumpy ride that didn't go away no matter what I did, until I replaced two tires at a time. If you can get Goodyear or Pirelli as opposed to the Dunlops. Just a matter of choice but the Dunlops tend to ride a little rougher on cold ( below freezing )days until they warm up. The Goodyears or Pirellis don't need to warm up as much before they smooth out... overall I think you'll be happy with your choice...

benzowner · April 2003

Most Of the 2000,2001 and some 2002 model S-class has electrical problems. Mercedes has never been dependent on electronics in there cars. So they are inexperienced in the electronics field. But they are working with the Japanese to improve on all the electronics. The 2003 S-Class model electronics are much more reliable than that of their earlier models. In fact the command system will be reworked by nokia in 2004 so I expect it will get a lot better in the future. But still remember Mercedes-Benz is one of the most durable cars on the road today and in the past. (Being an Owner of their cars for 37 years)

airmatic · April 2003

I had to send in my 2002 S430 for the 19th time in one year. the previous time, the COMMAND wouldn't read the CD-ROM. now, it's the windows. none of the front/rear windows go down. it's getting hot now in San Diego, and i can't even open the windows (the moonroof won't operate, either.). besides that, I also needed them to fix another issue- the cig. lighter is dead, so i can't charge my cell-phone.

i service the car at Mercedes Benz of laguna niguel. they are genuinely concerned, and wanted me to send in the car. so now, I am driving a 2002 C320.

hmm....

daughertynd · April 2003

Several weeks ago I posted a message regarding electrical problems with our 2002 S-500. We consulted with an attorney who specializes in the Virginia lemon law and sent a letter on April 8th to MB USA,MB-Germany, and the dealership where we purchased the car. Today we picked up a new 2003 S-500 and only had to pay a fee for the mileage on the 2002. We are so pleased that MB responded so professionally and promptly to our letter and resolved the issue we had with the car.

tendons1 · April 2003

I'm considering an s500 with maybe abc suspension that my mercedes tech says he his alot happier with than the airmatic. I'd like to know experiences people have had with both or either suspension. Does it seem worthwhile? Are airmatic problems worked out by this time?

benzowner · April 2003

The problems with the electronics on the S-class have been resolved for 2003. everything should be aright. Mercedes has never had this many electronics on there cars before so they had to work out some bugs in the cars. as I said in one of my other posting the command systems is going to be designed by nokia in ether 2004 or 2005 can't remember witch one. Thanks

jeffk9 · April 2003

I have an 2003 E320 which is probably the worst built car I have ever owned. my 99 was built so much better. anyway, I am considering trying to get an 2003 s-430. Are they built well ? are they changing next year ? what would be a good deal compared to sticker or invoice in southern California. any help would be appreciated !

merc1 · May 2003

http://car.kak.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=news&file=- - article&sid=977

It will be standard on most 4.3 and 5.0L V8 cars this fall.

M

mcechman · May 2003

Good day,
I am looking at buying 64 Mercedes 220S FinTail;
Ivory/Red, one-owner, garaged, good condition,
4-speed on the column, 6 cylinders, mechanically sound, 181K miles, original Becker radio, Kuhlmeister after market A/C, $4500.00 OBO. Is this a good deal? Would I be able to turn around and sell it for more than that? It seems to be in great shape. I wanted to test drive it today but it is raining and the owner said no way, not in the rain. This car has never seen rain. So is this a good/bad/okay deal?

ceksc · May 2003

Why can't Mercedes Benz get their Navigation system up to the quality of that on Lexus? I just bought an S500. My son and I live about an hour from one another and our towns each fall in different zones on the Benz system. This requires that we change discs when going from one town to another if we wish to use the navigation system. My Lexus GX SUV (the best SUV I have ever driven) has an outstanding navigation system with no such quirks. It disturbs me that the system on the MB is so inferior to that of Lexus. (other than this problem I love my S class)

boo20 · May 2003

I think that starting with the 2004 model year MBs will have the DVD based system. Of course, that doesn't help you.

mbnut1 · May 2003

Is this a good deal?

If it doesn't have rust I think that it is a fair deal.

Would I be able to turn around and sell it for more than that?

I wouldn't buy it with that motivation buy it because you want it for yourself

They are cool cars.

ssinwell · May 2003

A colleague has bought a new S500 and wants to sell his 2001 S430. We are friends, and he says he will take $25K for the car, which has high miles 75K, mostly freeway miles. This fellow is sincere and honest, and really just wants a hassle free transaction. The car is clean with no accidents. The car is appealing visually and is fun to drive.

On the surface it looks like a decent deal. However, this car has been to the dealer about 16 times over the last 32 months for various issues. A couple of take aways from the service - this car eats brakes about once a year; there are random electrical problems that appear to arise (they are fixed as identified), and he has complained, and I have noticed a rather odd odor in the interior. Does not quite smell like gas, but something else that is noticable. In any event the dealer has never been able to fix that.

With the high miles, maybe a fair value would be about $32 to $35K, I'm not sure.

I've never owned a MB, always have been a Lexus guy. But maybe this one way to experience a MB.

Any instant thoughts would be appreciated.

mbnut1 · May 2003

If I was personally in your shoes I would be vigorously pursuing buying the car, but... not until I had resolved the smell issue. It's a great deal but no matter how great a deal it was I would find such an issue wholley unacceptable. The other point is what you've already pointed out and that is it's not going to be nearly as trouble free as your Lexus and you need to be emotionally and financially prepared for that. I personally would sign up for that risk once the smell issue was overcome. If you don't end up buying it I'd like to put it in my garage..

ejerod · May 2003

The strange smell you're noticing in your friend's 2001 S500 could be coming from the airmatic suspension system. I had a problem with a 2001 S500 I've since traded. A few months before one of the airpumps went out I noticed a strange smell, almost like something was burning, then one day the system went out and my S class looked like a low rider. I'd ask a dealer to look into that before I'd by the car

wabends · May 2003

My wife and I have the opportunity to buy a 2000 S430 with 22700 miles on it. The color is desert silver and it has all the basic S class specs plus a CD changer. The car has had one owner, it was garage kept, well taken care of and all the necessary paperwork (including the original CDs and videos) are intact. Asking price is $47500; KBB and NADA prices are around $52500.

We currently own a 2001 C240 (9100 miles, C2 and C3 package) which we intend to trade in for the S class. We have an extended warranty on the C class and subscribe to the Tele Aid.

Now my questions are:

1. Can we transfer our extended warranty and or the tele aid subscription to the S class?
2. Would it be possible to purchase an extended warranty from MB after we buy the S class?

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions in advance.

Regards,
Wabends

mbnut1 · May 2003

1. Can we transfer our extended warranty
I'm pretty sure No

2. Would it be possible to purchase an extended warranty from MB after we buy the S class?

Ditto above

mbnut1 · May 2003

So what exactly was broken?

boo20 · May 2003

I believe that you can get a pro-rata share back on the warrantee from the dealer if you cancel early. Beware that the time (numerator) starts when you purchaced it. I.e., a $2000 warrantee purchaced at 1 year and extending the manufacturers 4 year warrantee by an additional two years will only be worth 2000*(1/6) = 333 when cashed in at 5 years (not 2000/2 =1000 as you might expect).

wabends · May 2003

Thanks for your responses. I called the MB Customer service today and I was told that the Tele-Aid subscription was not transferable. I also suspect that the extended warranty may not be transferable.

Any suggestions about a good source of extended warranty for a 2000 S 430 with 22.8 K miles on it?

sbhatia2 · May 2003

I've got a 2000 S430 and am looking to buy the Nav CD for the SF bay area. Not sure which number that is. Anyone have an extra CD they would like to sell me?

Thanks,
Shrey

wabends · June 2003

We got the car that is described in #1513 and it is great! Big difference from our former car and I now understand why the S-class is described as ultra-luxury. We looked at the BMW 7 series as an alternative, but there is no doubt that the S-class is superior in several respects. Now a question: the car is pre-wired for a cell phone; will an after-market V60 Motorola phone work in this car or do I have to buy the $2000 phone from a dealership?
Thanks in advance for your response.

psedrish · June 2003

Nope....it will not work. I have a V60 from my company, and when I plug it into the S, the readout on the dash is "phone not connected". It will recharge the battery, but that's it. It makes me a bit angry.

airmatic · June 2003

car has about 31,000- approx one year old. i woke up one morning to find the front end of my 2002 S430 collapsed. i mean leterally- the front end was tilted downward. while driving it to work (i expected it to raise), i scraped everything, and got a flat tire on my front right. I managed to drive it to the new Mercedes dealership in San Diego. it turns out that there was a leak in the airmatic, and that they would have to install 4 new ones (the back ones too) because they are putting in the revised airmatic DC (like on E500). it has so far been 5 days. they said that eventually, I would have lost complete air pressure in the rear airmatic's. they had to wait for the parts to come in, and finally, when they installed it, the rear of the car was vibrating, and making squeaking noises. so, they had to reinstall, and allow the car to rest. so far, they have not called me back. so now i am driving a 2000 ML320 loaner.

i had previously noticed a hissing noise after braking (like a "humph"). then, one day- the whole front end collapsed.

also, my moon-roof wouldn't tilt back down, because it was blocked by some piece of metal. alas, it was raining in SD that day, so the interior roof color (which was grey) turned slighlty yellowish-brown (from the water maybe?) so they have to replace it.

finally, I have decided to tell them to replace my AM radio antenna. the reception was horrible, filled with static. i am not surprised by this, as my friend's S500 had the same problem.

does anybody know whether the new airmatic DC rides differently than the original Airmatic? i am curious to find out, as I am supposed to pick it up today.

mbnut1 · June 2003

Appreciate your post. You are doing the rest of us a service by letting us know the issues with the S Class air suspension. This is not the first post regarding the air suspension failures. What I do wonder is what the minimum repair cost would be assuming it was coming out of somebodies pocket.

airmatic · June 2003

fortunately for me, all the costs, from airmatic to moonroof was under warranty. the technician did tell me, however, that MB"s cost to replace all four (replacement of all four is necessary) is approximately $4000. Mercedes will not tell you about this issue; it is up to you to service your S-class. So if you guys have a 2000-2002 S430 or S500 with the original airmatic air suspension system with the NEW airmatic DC system. Just a friendly tip  so that it doesnt happen to your car like it did to mine
;-)
I just went to autopsies.com to view the 2006 S-Class. Personally, it doesnt look that impressive, nor does it feature the shock-and-awe looks like the new 745i. maybe Ill have to take a seat inside or look at it in person to appreciate it. But I know that at the end, Mercedes will do a fine job like it has done with the CL, SL, and S class. I just hope it doesnt have that E-class tail; its so round.

I have to go now and pick up my S-Class; I hope I can even get the car started...

psedrish · June 2003

I have a 2002 S430; before that a 1997 S500. These are great cars but...I've had lots of probs with their phones (an Oki in the '97 always snapped its plastic retaining clip in the cradle, rendering it useless, while the hands-free reception with the Motorola in the '02 is just awful).
I also think the seats are hard as rocks, moreso in the newer one. Maybe I'm getting older, but I sure do think the Caddy's seats are more comfy.
However, service-wise, I couldn't be happier. I get my cars picked up from my home and (free) loaners dropped off in their place any time I have an issue. That alone is worth a lot of money to me.

airmatic · June 2003

what was supposed to be an enjoyable 8-hour drive to San Francisco turned out to be a roughly 10-hour fiasco due to our beloved, problem-plagued 2002 S430. after replacing all 4 of the original airmatic air suspensions, which took a week to fix, i decided to take a risk by driving the S430 from SD to SF (its longest trip). at first the drive was actually quite relaxing, cruising at approximately 95-100 mph on Interstate 5 near Fresno when suddenly my son in the backseat tells me that I have a flat tire in the rear. soon, my wife tells me that, and I can see the rear seat headrests bouncing up and down. immediately, I pull over (could have caused a dozen accidents) to the shoulder, get out (it's about 96 degrees outside)and see no tire damage whatsoever. i was glad because we were literally in the middle of nowhere. after getting back on the freeway, I too, begin to feel the vibration. by then, i was at about 95 mph. i pull over, and as usuall, nothing looks wrong. after pulling over about 3 more times because of the same reason, i call 1-800-FOR-MERCEDES, where they transfered me to this technical support line. there, I am told that it is probably due to my rear airmatic suspensions failing on me. he suspected that the rear collapsed on top of the tires, but that i noticed it quickly enough to slow down and stop. the solution? drive at about 55 mph, and raise the car usuing the airmatic raising feature. it seemed to work, but believe me, going at 55 mph on a freeway where honda's go 100 gets pretty scary. i probably got honked at and got the finger at atleast a dozen times, but at least, we made it to SF in one piece. however, we immediately notified the nearest MB dealership in SF (forgot the name) and they told me that they had to wait for the parts and that it would take a week. i had a meeting several days later, and therefore, that was impossible. so, as you probably assumed, we drove our S-class at 55 mph back down to SD, making an already miserable 8-hour drive turn into a 10-hour torture-drive.
well, i am back at home now. i am now driving a ML loaner car, servicing my car. while in SF, the power door closers also failed, so that is being fixed. I am so concerned about my car that I am thinking about notifying Mercedes-Benz of North America regarding the reliability issues of my vehicle, and asking for some kind of "reimbursement"...

merc1 · June 2003

I think that would be in order if not a buy-back of your car.

M

airmatic · June 2003

so far the dealership has not called me back, and I do not know what actually happened

i call them, and they say that they are busy and will call me back soon- they never have

mbnut1 · June 2003

This is unbelievable. They should be tripping over themselves to make happy given what you paid for that car.

twatkins2 · June 2003

Just picked up my new S500 WOW what a car (toy)
looking for some new rims any suggestions or prices

airmatic · June 2003

Yesterday afternoon, I received a call from the SD dealership, saying the car is ready and that simply the tire had to be realigned. However, I contacted my usual technician at MB of Laguna Niguel, and he told me that was completely B-S. He said that probably one of the five bolts on the wheel was loose, and that they just wanted to cover up their own mistakes. I am certainly never going to service nor purchase another MB there again, as their service is by far the rudest and their technicians are certainly the least-trained. For those living in S. Cal, I certainly recommend Mercedes Benz of Laguna Niguel. Although I drive an hour from San Diego just to service and purchase a car there, the drive is certainly worth it. At least I get treated there with respect, like I have always been treated with Lexus.

I have not sent a formal letter yet to Mercedes-Benz, USA. I plan on doing so within a week. However, today, while calling MB of Laguna Niguel, I talked to my saleswoman, where she was offering me roughly $1000 off invoice on a new 2003 S430, and that she’d give me deep discounts on several options. However, she had to go early, so she would call me back today. I have not yet decided, as I am seriously considering the 2003 BMW 745Li. But then, the 745Li is due for a refresh in several months, and I am afraid that during that time waiting, my S430 will kill me either in an accident or emotionally ;-)
(also, I am sort of sick and tired of driving behind the wheel of another S430, so I am seriously stuck)

After she calls today, and I will tell you what she said.

Halleluiah! Today, I get to pick up my S430 that has been in for serious repairs at least a dozen times.

boo20 · June 2003

A loose bolt doesn't cause any problems in the short term. I've driven with one bolt missing for months without any problem.

leej2 · June 2003

Thanks, Airmatic, for a delightful description of what driving an S class is supposed to be all about and such clear descriptions of the problems that you are having. It's a shame though that when you spend 80K+ for a vehicle that you need to have apprehensions about a 400 mile road trip.
I have to agree that I5 is one of the few places that one can truly appreciate the reasons for having an "S". My wife was making the trip from the Bay Area to L.A. 2-3 times a month in her 02 S430 and, until we started having so many problems with it, the knowledge that she was in this car gave me a great feeling of security. I don't know if you have it but Distronic makes the drive even better. It is one of the few things that work well and it truly makes long trips more pleasant.
I am getting the feeling though that we are one of the lucky ones with only 14 visits to the shop (typically 2 or 3 day stay) in 20 months of ownership. It's there right now as the shift lever refuses to move. My Service Manager's repeated comment when we are "discussing" the problems that we have had with the car of "At least it has never left her stranded" are no longer valid. My wife is now reluctant to stray too far from home with the car.
I am also preparing a letter to MB about options for getting rid of the vehicle. Unfortunately, with 51K miles the depreciation (>$40K on a trade in) is really hard to swallow. Our dealer has offered more (unspecified amount) if we trade it in on another "S" but we are apprehensive about owning another and encountering more of the same problems. The problem is after driving an "S" it will be very hard to find something comparable. Looking at a GX470 though.
Keep us posted.

leej2 · June 2003

It's nice to hear from someone that is not having major problems and is happy about the service they receive. I wish our dealer was the same.
We have to drive 20 miles to the dealer and if we don't scream loudly when the car is in for repair they rent us a Ford Escort from the Enterprise office next door.

airmatic · June 2003

you are lucky that you got a Ford Escort. MB of San Diego usually gives me a Toyota Carolla. If i complain loudly, i may get a C240, or rarely, an ML320.

by the way, i got back my S430. it seems to be driving fine. the dealer is insisting that it was the wheel-balance was off. however, one of the technicians secretely told me that perhaps, the car auto-shutted off, when it thought I was hatting the red-line on RPM (i wasn't ever near it, though). or that the emergency brake activated (i have heard of similar reports of this while driving at high speeds at www.mercedesprobelms.com)

MB of Laguna niguel is offering $69,120 for a base- 2003 new S430. as for the trade in value of my car, it's $51,000. (well, it has about 31,000 miles and is a year old, but its really in excellent condition...)

airmatic · June 2003

just a quick question-
have any of you guys purchased a new mercedes at Fletcher Jones Mercedes in newport beach, california? i drove there today, and decided to investigate the prices of a new S430 there, and the salesman refused to disclose the price after discounts, nor are they willing to discuss any discounts. they said that they will inform me of their price when the actual vehicle comes in to the dealership from port or whatever. i stormed out. has this ever happened to you?

brokaw · June 2003

I'm considering buying a 2000 S500. When will the new body style be released? Also, the car is coming off a friend's lease. Any suggestions as to whether to contact Mercedes to lease this pre-ownwd or whether to go straight to a bank to finance a purchase or lease?

Thanks

cr

sbhatia2 · June 2003

I need to buy CD#1 (CA and NV). The dealer has the 7/2002 release. Is there a 7/03 release due out shortly? I know the 01 and 02 releases here made in July.

Should I wait or is there no big difference year to year?

Thanks,
Shrey

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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