Mercedes-Benz S-Class

Karen_S · March 2006

A large national newspaper aims to interview someone who has purchased, ordered or plans to order a 2007 Mercedes-Benz S550. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com before Thursday, March 16 at 5 PM EST with your daytime contact info.

Thanks,

Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

bocchun · March 2006

I have a 2000 S500 and it currently have 55k miles on it. However, I have a horrible experience with it.. Since I own it, the repairs total over $25k (most of them were covered by warranty), the repairs items included (what I can remember on top of my head): door assist (broke 4 or 5 times), passages windows motor broke 3 times, Command system was repaired twice and finally they replaced the whole system. 3 different areas of leaks, AC problem 3 or 4 times.. (replace different parts each time), airmatic suspension, sub-frame (not really sure what that is.. but supposed to be part of the frame) has a crack on it (warranty won't cover it... cost +-3k, which I'm going to fight with the warranty company - warranty direct, they claim I'm aware of that problem but keep driving it to make it worst...)
Anyway, If you are thinking about getting a S class.. you may want to think again. I'm a 3rd generation of Mercedes owner and it looks like I might have to switch to the new LS 460.

templeton3 · March 2006

I once was one of Mercedes biggest fan. After owning several Mercedes, I finally learned and bought others. I've learned that only thing with Mercedes is the name and the prestige. Have lots of friends who would never buy another Mercedes. When I was in the market for a suv, I bought a new (05) Range Rover. Luv it, glad I didn't buy a G500. We just bought 06 750Li. Didn't even bother looking at the S Class. In my opinion the Mercedes is less to be desired.

shoreman · April 2006

My wife finally got her Mercedes. A 2000 S500 at a local used dealer. After several days of driving it the hazard lights would start to blink . So we took it back and they replaced the hazard switch. Now they come on intermittently as well as the interior lights. Then the door locks will not work and occasionally we go out to the car and all the windows and the sun roof have opened on their own. Dealer reset the computer and it has reverted back to these malfunctions 4 times now. This is not a Mercedes Dealer but he specializes in Mercedes and BMW. He keeps resetting the computer and now showed us how. Not good enough. There is a problem! Anyone ever heard of such malfunctions?

duane3 · April 2006

I have a 1991 420SEL, that I bought new, the car has 160,000 miles and today I broke a timing chain. I was at a stoplight and when I stepped on the gas there was a crunch and the car quit. I took a look under the hood and the left rocker valve cover was broken and you could see the timing chain. I had it towed to the dealer and this is what they had to say...

when the timing chain broke, it may have bent the valves and damaged the pistons, they want to take off the heads and do a valve job and inspect the valves to see if they are bent, also look at the pistons to see if they are damaged. Cost estimate is $6,300!! If the valves are damaged, or worse, if the pistons are damaged, the cost could go up even more.

I'm having a hard time understanding how the valves and pistons could be damaged. In the old days when timing belts broke, you just replaced the belt and that was that. Can anyone tell me if what they are saying makes sense, and what about the cost of $6,300, for basically what amounts to a valve job (plus a timing chain and a valve cover). What if they just put on a new timing chain and valve cover - would I be okay??

Thanks,

Duane

anthonyp · April 2006

Sorry to read of your problem----Just a chance but you may not have done too much damage.....Possibly and independent shop would be able to advise you, at a lower cost....Further you may be out of luck as the car may not be worth that much money, particularly if it starts to have additional problems in the near future....Good luck Tony

nedzel · April 2006

Most engines today are interference engines. That is, when the valves are open, they protrude far enough into the cylinder that the piston would hit the valves when the piston is at the top of its motion if the valves are still open. The timing chain is what keeps the pistons and valves in time. When the timing chain breaks, the valves stop in their current position (open, closed, or in-between). The pistons keep moving and smack into any open valves.

This bends the valves, possibly damages the pistons, and may wreck other bits and pieces in the head.

No, they can't just replace the timing chain and valve cover. The valves are bent and broken. They won't open and close properly (if at all) and the engine would not run.

Sorry for the bad news, but the dealer isn't trying to screw you over on this. I'm surprised the cost is only $6300.

spinn · April 2006

Anyone know which are the best banks or leasing companies to lease hi line cars?

anthonyp · April 2006

Merc---There is a business article in economist.com...A free read ..I did not realize Mercedes Benz and Diamler Benz merged around nine years ago...Was the merger between the truck operation and the auto part??? It`s a good article for background.. I think you would appreciate it Tony

lauren12 · May 2006

Hi,
I received this message display 'No magazine' when I tried to activate the cd in my 2002 S500. The cd magazine is in the changer located in the trunk, but if I try to eject it, it will not eject as well. Does anyone experience this problem with their cd magazine and could advice me on this? I took it to the MB dealership for an estimate to fix it and they say it'll probably be $1200k to change the whole unit. Any advice would really appreciated.

garyh1 · May 2006

I'm no techie, but sounds like the sensor in the unit that detects the presence of the magazine is not working. Assuming you are out of warranty, I would take it to an auto sound shop and have them check it out before spending $1200 (hopefully not $1200k as you wrote - that would be $1,200,000!) at the dealer to replace it.

If it actually needs replacing, you'll find a similar (if not better) head unit available elsewhere for less. In my '98, the MB factory unit was actually made by Alpine (a Japanese company!), and the exact same Alpine unit without the MB symbol on it was available at Circuit City for about half the price.

lauren12 · May 2006

Thanks garyh1,
Yes, I mean $1,200.00! I think you're right that I'll have to try an auto sound shop out there instead of MB. There seem to be so many auto sound/stereo shops out there that I'm not sure which one to trust. If I walk in Circuit City or BestBuys, do you think those sales guys know enough to know which cd unit would work with my MB? So in your MB, you purchased the unit from Circuit City and an auto sound shop install it for you for a reasonable charge??

garyh1 · May 2006

CC or BB should be able to look up and install a compatible replacement unit, but I don't think they would necessarily be the best places to check out your current unit.

Actually, in my case the MB dealer ran out of MB-branded units and installed an Alpine unit. I didn't discover it until months after I had bought the car. I then checked out at CC the same unit the dealer had put in, and it was about half the price that MB was asking.

But I did buy a replacement car stereo at CC for another MB car I had (an old E320 wagon that we passed on to my daughter), and they installed it without any problem.

blkhemi · May 2006

I will be looking soon to replace my Audi A8L W-12. I'm interested in the S63/65 AMG's, which are the more appealing models to me. I owned an '05 (W220) S65 AMG that was a blast to drive, and I'm hoping to collect some of that experience again.

I had a brief interaction with an S600 on yesterday at the local MB dealer. The car was really amazing and better than I thought. I drove an S550 for a whole day about 2 months ago and really liked the dynamics of the car. While not quite as planted as my previous 760iL or even the S65, it adapted to the road really well. The only hold out for me would probably be that the interior isn't quite up to Audi's standard. No huge biggie, but I wish they would've spent more time on interior refinement, which was once a MB strong point.

Which brings me to my point. Have any of you fellas drove or bought either of the AMG variants yet, or even an S550? I'm really leaning towards the S63 as 503-hp is quite enough for this car.

I've narrowed my choices to the S63, the upcoming LS460L(depending on suspension refinements), Maserati Q-P. So any help would be appreciated.

lauren12 · May 2006

Thanks garyh1 for your thoughts on this topic. I will try both BB or CC and the local sound stereo shops to see which one can fix it for the best price. I will let you know when its fixed, hopefully soon so I don't have to change the radio stations every 3 minutes while I'm driving!

I know someone else with a 1999 E320, which has the same 'no magazine' error as my MB. They didn't get it fix either as they think its too costly from dealership quotes.

blckislandguy · May 2006

If MSRP is 87K for a barebones S Class (Option Package II is apparently not available and Option Package III seems aimed at the AARP crowd--I mean if I have trouble looking in the mirror or need a massage I'll go to a gymn) what would be a good transaction price in late summer? The AWD option is apparently going to cost 4K this summer when it becomes available. My local dealer tells me he is already taking names and assigning numbers (why do these German car dealers sometimes come across like my old first sergeant?). What would be a reasonable deposit, if any, to get in his AWD queue? I'm in no rush as long as I can get into one before the snow flies this year. Do you think I could get the AWD for free by then as the early adopters will have already bought their cars? Would I be shooting myself in the foot with a very complicated machine if I picked up the S Class of my choice at a distant dealer and just drove the thing home over Thanksgiving?

anthonyp · June 2006

This is a bit slow Tony

s430amg · June 2006

I have a 2002 S430 AMG and I just received a message that the brake lining is wearing visit shop -

A couple of questions -

Is it recomended that I take it to the Mercedes Benz shop to get replacement pads or can I go to a shop that specializes in foreign cars?

Does the AMG make a difference when replacing brakes?

Will the signal go off if I take it somewhere other than Mercedes?

The Mercedes shop quoted $250 while other shops are in the $150 range - is that right?

If I take it to somewhere other than Mercedes what should I ask the shop -

please respond jkp4030@yahoo.com

Also I was planning on going out of town MD- NY and Mercedes can't get me in before, would it be okay to drive and get fixed upon return? Light came on two days ago.

Thanks!!!!!!

Jacqueline

merc1 · June 2006

Sorry for the neglect of this thread, I didn't have it on my tracking list.

Well it was Chrysler and Daimler-Benz that merged back in 1998. I at the time needed medical attention upon reading about it, but have since recovered.

M

merc1 · June 2006

Good to see you've posted here also.

I assume the more recent decision to get the Audi S8 means all of this has been decided already???

M

merc1 · June 2006

Well there is no data on the new S-Class so far as reliability is concerned, but if you look around on some other MB mesg boards you'll find a shocking lack of complaints about the car. I have the feeling that the new S is the most reliable Benz in at least the last 10-12 years. I doubt you'll be able to get 4Matic for free considering how the S550 will still seemingly be the only car besides the A8 to offer AWD in this segment. I don't think you have anything to worry about with the new S.

M

cardwan · July 2006

Any idea the difference in the heat reduction using the above option? Worth the money to buy this option if this is not a standard in the MB car?
I suppose that the laminated glass should be more safe and more sound-proof.

Any comment?

djt21 · August 2006

I have an S500 4matic with stock 17" wheels. The car had great traction last winter with the stock 17's and Michelin MXV4 all seasons. For aesthetic reasons I want to go up to an 18" wheel. Will I get as good or similar snow traction with an 18" wheel and all season tire as I am now with the factory 17" setup. I'll typically be driving through 4-5 inches of snow per storm. (I'm not willing to do the winter/summer changeover every 6 months).

anthonyp · August 2006

Maybe someone would be kind enough to give their impression of the new S Thanks Tony

corim3 · August 2006

i love my car but hate the single wiper, can anyone recommend a new wiper blade/arm setup that will wipe clean and not smear? also in winter, i get a lot of snow/ice load up on the blade which is dangerious. thanks for any help roger

anthonyp · September 2006

Got my first chance to check out the new Mercedes today...I thouht it to look quite spectacular, and was surprised that the front fender flares and rear looked fine, and set the car of in a special way....I guess I am addressing this to Merc , and am surprised and dissapointed no owners or the new s post their experiences on this board Tony

anthonyp · September 2006

If you come up with a superior wiper blade==please let me know the brand Tahnks Tony

mikespopworld · September 2006

I agree we need to get some 2007 S550 owners to post - come on! I know there's a few of you lurking out there...hahaha.
Just picked up my 2007 Mercedes S550 yesterday and spent most of the day testing it out on the highways of northern New Jersey and I am impressed and totally satisfied after the initial day and 150 miles. I Got the andorite grey with black interior with premium package they all seem to come with, that's the keyless go and ventilated seats among other things. Also got the night assist, which throws up a crisp and clear infrared image, i tried it out and it's cool, but without fog or some other more stressful situation it was easier to just look out the window 100% of the time. Anyway, took advantage of the 73% residual for 27 months, which is now 72% I think, and also got about $3000 off MSRP ( not a lot off because it had the "rare" night assist option which i wanted).
I decided to go with RWD (rear wheel drive) after researching it versus all wheel drive and found that decent snow tires on a rwd car will perform nearly as well as average tires on all wheel drive in almost all cases. Took a curving, pretty sharp highway turn at 85mph that most cars wobble in doing 50mph - in the S550 it was as smooth as can be - at 85mph! Wow.

anthonyp · September 2006

Congradulations....I wonder if the night vision would also work if it was raining pretty hard? I have seen a few of the s550 and think they look quite good...Blkhemi has a 600 on order, so i hope more of you owners will post ....Thanks Tony

topspin628 · September 2006

Sounds like you're leasing. If so, would you mind sharing the deal with the residual you mentioned.
Beautiful car. Enjoy it and please keep us posted as to your experience. What were you driving previously?

mikespopworld · September 2006

Sure, it was a 27 month lease, 73% residual, .0039 money factor(about 9.36%, very high, yes) and 10k miles per year. MSRP was 95.7k, including a 1k gas guzzler tax, and I got approx. a 3k discount off the MSRP, brought 6k to the table, about 1k of that 6k went to bank/registration/document fees, and I ended up with a monthly payment of 1450 a month including taxes. I also get clipped with a 595.00 return the car fee at the end of the lease which i failed to catch during the negotiations. I will pay for two oil changes and a front brake pad change at 20,000 miles, but should not get to the 30k rear brake pad change. I estimate all in money for the 27 months, taxes, doc/bank fees, return car fee and not including maintenance to be about 45k.

topspin628 · September 2006

Thanks, after you get some miles on it, I'd love to hear your review. I'm drooling over that car.

gusb1 · September 2006

For the S550, my dealership is suddenly offering $1,000 over invoice and buy rate (currently 00375)for a lease. This seems to be a good deal...? Dealer claims it's just because times are tough, but does anyone know if something different is planned for the 08 model years? Does this sound like a good deal? They didn't tell me about the 27 month 72% residual...

mikespopworld · September 2006

$1000 over invoice sounds like a good deal to me. There might be new dealer incentives or the dealer might be moving his RWD stock ahead of the arrival of the 4matics...who knows, but I hope they have a color and option package you like. The .00375 money factor is still very high - about 9%, but combine that with a relatively high residual, like the 27 month 72% residual and it all "averages out". Expect the high residuals to reduce by about 1% a month over time. The money factor is the wild card over time, but with rates falling over the last week or so, maybe they will lower that high money factor. As for the '08, I asked about model changes before I finalized my '07 S550 lease and I was told no major changes over the next few years.

Be aware there seems, in my opinion, to be a large stock of RWD(rear wheel drive) '07's all around the country - I called several large dealers around the country and they all had plenty to choose from, and with the 4matics out in a few months you can count on dealers wanting to move a few at a decent level. Keep us posted!

blckislandguy · September 2006

As you weighed out your financing options, what were your thoughts about buying? Did the 73% residual look to be a lease subsidy? Did you have to lease with MB -and tolerate the high money factor--to get that residual?

mcaleer · September 2006

I've ordered a 2007 S550 4Matic and have yet to see a price. The dealer is knocking $2500 off list. Anybody know when the first ones are coming off the line? Certainly, they'll have released the pricing by then! Does the 4Matic come with the 7-speed transmission? I'm also told that the 2007 won't have the hump in the passenger footwell that my 2003 S430 4Matic has - true?

gusb1 · September 2006

mikes -- thanks for the input. Is the performance expected to be that different between the RWD and the 4-matics? On the money factor, I thought 9% high also, but if I go to US Bank or elsewhere, the money factor is better but they also lower the residual... My dealer hasn't told me about the 27 month 72% residual -- that sounds like a good one.

merc1 · September 2006

Does the 4Matic come with the 7-speed transmission?

Yes.

I'm also told that the 2007 won't have the hump in the passenger footwell that my 2003 S430 4Matic has - true?

True, the new S-Class was engineered from the ground up for 4Matic and the 4Matic system is also brand new and more compact compared to the version in use on every other current Mercedes.

M

leaseexpert1 · September 2006

Be careful with the high residuals. Make sure you really want that car! The US Bank MF is .00265 with a residual of 48% on 36 months, they do not offer a 24 or 27 month lease. The payment is $200 higher but if you need to get out of the vehicle early or you want to buy or acquire it at the end of the lease term, you will be $8,000 upside down. The 27 month residual is $9,000 lower than the current auction value of the S550 as of today. Once MBZ takes care of the component problems they are having with the Sports the bottom is going to drop out of the base vehicles. We have an 07 S550 with 17K miles that we own for 70K. I have dealers that are selling the base vehicle at 500 under invoice.

mikespopworld · September 2006

Buying crossed my mind, but I was not ready to drop over 90k in cash to buy the car outright, and in my mind, even without doing all the math, the lease deal appeared subsidized enough to make leasing the way for me to go and honestly my motivation was really to get a state of the art car for a year or two and then flip into the next newest state of the art car. Ideally if I could have gotten away with a "good deal" on a one year lease I would have done that, but no one offers what anybody would call a reasonable one year lease. With my lease at the end of 27 months I'm out around 44k all in, including all taxes, for a car with a negotiated price of around 93k. So let's say I had the sack to drop 93k in cash on the car and bought it outright - doing the basic math, and using the 7% tax rate here in NJ, that's 93k plus 6.5k in taxes: 99.5k all in - now, let's say 27 months passes and I sell the car, and here's where we have to be realistic - I just checked '05 S500's on ebay and there's about 15 of them and not one is bid over 55k and that bid is for an '05 with 10,000 miles on it with an original MSRP between 85k and 90k, so in my mind the real value of these cars after 27 months is around 65% of the original MSRP at best and more than likely lower(high 50%'s to low 60%'s) once you put 20k-40k miles on the car, but for arguments sake let's use 65%. So say I paid 93k cash for the car (MSRP close to 96k) and using 65% of the original MSRP I get a car worth 62.4k after 27 months, which means I'm out 30.6k (93k-62.4k) PLUS taxes 6.5k(7% NJ state tax on the purchase price of 93k) for a grand total of 37.5k I'm out all in if I sell the car for 62.4k after 27 months - so in this case it beats the lease by about 7k...hmmm. But other things to consider...change the 65% to 58% and you now have a car worth 55.7k after 27 months and that brings your all in costs up to 43.8k, about the same as the lease! Let's face it, nobody knows what the car will actually be worth 27 months from now, could be 68% of msrp, could be 58%, and I'm leaving out the money made by investing most of the 93k instead of spending it on a depreciating asset which is thousands of dollars over 27 months at current short term rates, but in my mind by leasing I took out all the WORRY about depreciation and the HASSLE of selling a used car and MIGHT have gotten a good deal to boot - to be determined 27 months from now when a 96k MSRP '07 S550 with 22k miles goes on Ebay!

blckislandguy · September 2006

Nice analysis. I can't imagine anything more difficult than trying to privately sell a 27 month old S Class at anything above wholesale. The portion of the "secondary market" for an S Class that would even consider a non-dealer sale aren't the kind of people I'd want coming to my house for a test drive.

mikespopworld · September 2006

I didn't even mention how much financing adds to the total "all-in" costs. If you finance just over half of the 93k, say 50k at 6% interest, that adds over 7k to your all-in costs which makes leasing look even better...
You are right - can you imagine the hassle of trying to sell the car on your own? PASS! I didn't even mention that only 2 or 3 of the 15 or so '05 S500's on Ebay had bids! Not too much demand...

leaseexpert1 · September 2006

The 27 month lease is a good deal if you want to drive the car for a couple of years and then get something new. Or you can drive it for a couple of years, turn it in to MBZ and let them own it for 70K and turn around and lease a 2008 preowned from an independent dealer or private seller and let them take the big hit. I have a friend/customer that I got into a S550 Sport about 6 months ago. He has leased 13 vehicles from me over the last 2 years. Has never driven a sedan more than 1 year. He will not give his S550 up. I have not found a person out there that does not LOVE this vehicle. There are going to be a lot of people kicking themselves when their 27 month lease is up and they want to keep a vehicle that they owe 10K more than the book value. Most people that are spending this kind of money for a vehicle should be looking at the long term costs of the vehicle. What I am hearing most people say is "How can I save a hundred or Two dollars a month?"

blckislandguy · September 2006

Sure, the traditional way is the smart way: buy it, drive it, and then in four or five years years do it again. (How big of a hardship would it be to drive and be seen in an '02 or 03 S Class, anyway?). But the poster's goal was to only lease/own it for a short time while he awaited the next hot thing to come along.

wmalange · October 2006

Anyone know where to find literature on working on these cars? I only have 50k miles on it and thins are starting to give me trouble (seat cushion bottom leather is only $2400 at the dealer!) Thank you.
wmalange@yahoo.com

Kirstie_H · October 2006

A reporter from a large daily newspaper is looking to speak to Mercedes-Benz owners in the Washington DC area about the expectations you have with the car when you purchase it and any problems youve had to deal with. Please provide your daytime contact info to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 16, 2006.

mickyl · October 2006

I am about to buy a MB S550 brand new with the sticker price of $92,300, for $89,000. I am getting $3.3K discount off the MSRP. Good deal or no?

Any comments welcome.

mikespopworld · October 2006

Sounds "fair" to me at best. I 100% guarantee you that if you live in the ny/nj area you can shop that deal and easily beat it by 1k or 2k. If you are not beholden to some specific option package and don't need the rare option(night assist) or the exclusive option(amg package) I would advise you to shop around and if you are willing to go the extra mile, call out of state dealers like I did - there's hundreds of s550's available within a few hours drive from my house in nj - and i'd be willing to bet real money that 5k off a 90k-95k sticker car is a certainty within the first four dealers you call in your area - it's all up to you - be a tough negotiator, and all that takes is sticking with your offer and being willing to walk away and call the next guy.

mickyl · October 2006

Thanks for your advice. In fact, I did call around quite a bit and found that there are about 100 MBs with the color combination that I want (i.e. black and black).

I shopped around and I think the shipping cost will add at least $1K on top of the negotiated price if I were to buy it out of state. But what really got me off a wrong foot was that there was someone (private seller) who tried to defraud me. For $2 to $3K difference, I don't really think it makes sense for me to take a risk on that.

So, I bought the S550 today at the price that I asked earlier.

Thanks for your comments, anyhow.

mikespopworld · October 2006

By settling for 3k off MSRP I'd have to say you defrauded yourself of 1k-2k or more in extra discount. Seems like whatever happened scared you into settling for the 3k discount without looking around. Would like to hear the full story. Anybody else reading this realize this is not typical. If you are not beholden to a specific color or option package and with the 4matics soon to hit the market, and hundreds of rear wheel drive S550's on lots everywhere, if you don't get at least 5k off MSRP on a RWD S550 here in the northeast I'd say you didn't negotiate hard enough. My first stop at Mercedes of Morristown NJ about two months ago, and without any negotiation, got me a 94.7k car offered to me at 90.3k, over 4k without even pushing - he would have done better - he said so himself, but I settled on a car with the rare night assist which supposedly was not discounted at all because of their rarity -and I got over 3k off of that car at Greenwich Mercedes in CT and did the deal with them because I wanted the rare option.

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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