Mercedes-Benz S-Class

netcruiser · February 2001

Anyone have opinions on whether the price diff is justified buying the 500 over the 430? I anyone disappointed with their s430's performance? Thinking about buying one or the other (wife will only let me have one)...having a hard time to decide! I already own an ML430 already, so I sort of hate to have two cars with the same engine (at least I think it is the same engine).

Also, considering MB is using the Saturn pricing strategy for the S class, how "non-negotiatiable" is the price these days? Anyone know of good deals in the Wash DC area?

is4b2rd · February 2001

I'd say it depends on your driving style. I think the new 4.3 in the S430 is more than adequate. However, if you like to feel that added push leaving a stop light, then the S500 may be for you. Personally, instead of spending the extra money on the S500, I'd option up the S430 to meet your desires. Another option is to get a designo (the silver edition is great with all the extra leather from an S600) and not be that much over the price of the S500.

I have heard that some dealers are discounting a very small amount, but in a lot of markets the car is still too new and too in demand for them to discount at all.

benznut · February 2001

The difference between the S430 and S500 is not radical. You have to consider what options you want. The S500 has some of these as standarts, for which you would have to pay if you have the S430. And these are options you can't "do" wothout if you want to own an automobile of this class. For exmple, I can mention xenon light, Nappa leather etc. And you have those 27 extra horsepowers. While they may not seem enough, they can make the diference between powerful enough and excting. The S500 more of the latter, but the 430 is no slug either. If you are a person to whom numbers have little imortance, go with S430. If you are a little more on the car enthusiast side, go with the 500.

blehrlich · February 2001

My recommendation would be to take each on a test drive, with the S500 going first. What I found was that the throttle response of the 500 was much more immediate and I felt much more "connected" to the car and to the road (even in winter mode in bad weather).
I also found that if I wanted a car with specific options (had to be ordered), that the price was MSRP, but I found a dealer with a few available and got $1000 off on the exact spec. that I wanted.
Good Luck.

ejerod · February 2001

I have the 1:18 model of the SLR Vision. Now to the people considering the S430 over the S500. I looked for several months and chose the S500 with the sports package over the 430 because I love the extra oomph you get when you accelerate and you feel your body being pressed into the seat by g forces. I love it. To the person that says the 18 inch wheels on the S500/430 look silly, I'd just say I get more compliments about the agressive look of the car from other owners of S cars as well as those who don't. It's also more than image. The larger tires are stickier and handle better especially when I have the sport suspension button engaged to two. Find a quiet, winding country road, tap the button twice to initiate the sport suspension , put in your favorite cd and crank it up and just smile as the curves come up and disappear without any tire squeal ... I love this car !!!

antlers1 · February 2001

I am deciding between mercedes S600 vs ultralux lexus LS430. Help me decide, please! Thank you, antlers1

jgts1 · February 2001

So, your up in the air about whether you want to go with the $115,000 Mercedes S600 or the $69,000 Lexus LS430...odd comparison, but I'll comment.

The S600 is positioned 1 tier lower on the food chain than a Bentley, as far as luxury and panache is concerned.

Get the S600.

blehrlich · February 2001

I have a S500 currently running on original 16" wheels with Michelin Alpin winter tires (which are incredible BTW). I was thinking of buying another, larger set of wheels/tires for the other three seasons of the year. Any ideas (I kind of like the AMG 18s used with the sport pkg.)?
Thanks

drew_ · February 2001

Hey everyone,

Just to keep you all updated on the live MB chat idea. How does Tuesday, March 5th at 5-6pm Pacific sound? This will be our premiere chat, and it should be a weekly thing after that. All MB owners and enthusiasts (C-class, CL-class, CLK-class E-class, G-class, M-class, S-class, SLK-class, SL-class) are welcome to participate, of course.

Please let me know!

Drew
Host

scargo160quick · February 2001

At $3K I like the chrome AMG 220's at tirerack.com (that includes 4 Dunlop SP9000s BTW).

At $5K I like the Brabus V, 3 pc. wheels (silver), or the Lorinser LM1 (chrome), both at tmengineering.net. They don't sell tires but I've figured that into the $5K.

I don't have either of these right now. I'm still trying to find a way to justify the additional $2K!

Check them out.

vs4 · February 2001

Does anybody has any information on 2002 model of E430 and S430?

Is it true that they might be dropping S430 totally and sell S500 at S430 price as Infiniti's new Q45 has 340 hp engine?

I also read on MotorTrend's website(update) that Mercedes will be introducing new E in 2002 rather than in 2003 as it says here on Edmunds FutureTelling section.

Thanks for all of you sharing your knowledge.

merc1 · February 2001

The S430 won't be dropped. The next E-Class is due for 2003 in the U.S. spring of 2002 for Europe...in other words we get it in the fall of 2002 as a 2003 model. Mercedes would almost never drop the new S430, but a power increase may be due for 2003 when the S-Class gets its first face-lift.

M

mikeb26 · February 2001

I was in a dealership the other day perusing a new S-430 when approached by a salesman whom almost immediately told me that pricing was non-negotiable. Now I don't know about you folks but I can say that I have negotiated virtually everything in my life. I don't see why a car should be any different. I am quite confident that MB negotiates the prices of the various components that go into the building of the car. MB states that they want to make sure that two different parties don't pay dissimilar prices for the exact car...What ? like they are trying to do me some kind of a favor! Any luck negotiating ???

wbwynn · February 2001

Tell him to stick it in his ear...it's all negotiable...guess they never heard the word RECESSION...

Start low and stick to your guns....I just did that on an LS430 and saved quite a bit. Be patient....and good luck.

hal1717 · February 2001

A friend of mine just offered his 2000 S 500 to me with 7,000 miles. Needs to break a lease and dump it. Is $70,000 a deal I shouldn't refuse? I've been thinking about a new 01 E430 and pricing them close to $60k. Note: I haven't even driven the I yet.

Any quick response appreciated as need to make a decision by the weekend

scargo160quick · February 2001

If a sales guy tells you its non-negotiable and lets you walk away, it is non-negotiable. It's all about supply and demand. There's a guy that will walk through the door, probably that same day, and pay what he wants so why should he make it any cheaper. I hate car sales guys, but frankly I would do the same thing. Ask for what the market will bear...

As for the 70K deal on the 2000. It's probably $3-4 less than what he could actually get for it with a little patience. Not to mention lux tax savings, gas guzzler tax, etc...

jgts1 · February 2001

"you hate car sales guys"...why, your damn straight you would do the same thing- huh, new concept...try and sell your product for the highest price that you can get away with...it doesn't matter what you are selling, supply and demand is key.

You don't think that Brabus is sticking it straight in your you know what by asking $5k for wheels!!! But they can, due to the wonderful reputation they built for themselves....don't get me wrong, I love Brabus products (but went with the W220 AMG's).

The new Sclass was brought out to be a "fixed" price car...thats why the profit margin went down so significantly...trust me, Benz salespeople don't like telling people the car isn't negotiable. It seems some dealers are discounting it, depends on your geographic location.

hal1717 · February 2001

Owners / S diehards .....Any noteworthy problems with your 2000 S 500? Is the 01 greatly improved?1st year intro cars are generally full of bugs. Test drove today and was impressed. Greatly appreciate any quick response. Thanks

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

I just received my Designo Silver S600. If you are ever deciding between the S55 and S600,pick the S600. It is really and incredible vehicle. I tested the BMW 750iL, and I really like the features and styling of the S600. I had to wait over a year and received it on Monday from Smythe European,(largest MB dealer west of the Mississippi, or so they say) and it sure was worth it.

The V12 sure is powerful and I sure can vouch that it can propel you to 60mph in a little over 5 seconds. If anyone says that the S55 is faster, that is incorrect because I tested both and the S600 is faster. The ABC works great and I love adjusting the ground height and changing between the Sport and Normal Mode. It really does take the lean out, I didn't think it would work this good. Also I did get retailer installed wheels, not the AMG ones, but these others, it was kind of expensive, but they look great.

I was able to get them to put on the new Keyless Go which is neat since I can walk up and open the doors and just click a button and takeoff. The voice activated features work okay. It isn't the best but it is a nice feature. The COMAND system works good, a lot better than a lot of people on this forum say. The sound system is excellent and in my opinion one of the best car audio systems I have heard.

Just for everybodies information, I asked how long the current wait for an S-Class is, they said that at all of the dealers, it is at least
2-years. So they will not, negotiate the price, they simply do not have enough vehicles going around. Actually I even paid several thousands of dollars to recieve my vehicle early. So good luck anyone out in the market.

NJ

taison · February 2001

It is a 2 year wait for an S-Class? Do you mean for an S600 or for all S's at your dealership?

nkole · February 2001

Anyone had any luck getting a deal on an S500 for Euro delivery? I've e-mailed six CA dealers and so far the best deal I've found is $4K off from a dealer in the LA area. Sounds pretty good?
Neil
nkole@yahoo.com

merc1 · February 2001

Is there anyway you can post some pics of your car? I have never seen a Designo edition S-Class.

M

rexconde1 · February 2001

Handling wise,

S55 v. S600 v. CL55 (Coming this summer)

family oriented v forget the family go for sports

room v. handling

We are taking all these into consideration

Our family is deciding beteen the three

A bit confused though MB says

S600

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.3 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

horsepower 270 (367)/5500 kW(PS)/min

torque 530/4250 Nm/min

S55

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.0 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

horsepower 265 (360)/5500 kW(PS)/min

torque 530/3150-4500 Nm/min

The S55 should be faster... and will out handle.

As for the ABC I have to agree, it is WONDERFUL. our previous 00 CL500 had it.

http://www.exconde.com/cl500.htm

question, do you like the distronic?

Robert

jgts1 · February 2001

the CL55 is currently been out for about a month or so...saw a glacier white one, absolutely awesome.

rexconde1 · February 2001

Clarification...

OURS is coming this summer.

Robert

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

The wait in the Bay Area for the S-Class, any model they tell me, is about 2-years. Also they told me this:

S600 - 362hp
391 lb-ft

S55 - 349hp
391 lb-ft

This is even in the 2001 S-Class brochure, so I don't know what to say. Both the S55 and S600 are fast so that is not a problem. I do think the S600 has a small probably, 0.04 second faster acceleration.

As for the pictures, I will try to take some, and post them, I had actually never seen the Designo Silver S Class before I actually recieved mine, it looks great. I haven't really tested the Distronic so I might do that tonight and report back.

Happy motoring everyone!

44264 · February 2001

Keeping in mind their similar power rating, I think the S55 would be quicker being 300 lb lighter.

From MBUSA:

S55
4,186 lb

S600
4,488 lb

vs4 · February 2001

I was talking to the dealer here in Pacific NorthWest and they told me the waiting time for SClass is 3 to 4 months.

If I order today that means 2001 SClass will not be delivered to me until May or June. 2002 model will be out in 6 months from now or 2 months from the day I will have my 2001 delivered.

So, Could some one be kind enough to share there information for 2002 S430 or S500 models and help me make a decision for 2001 or 2002 model.

There are two reasons making me go for 2002 model - changes in 2002 model and 2001 model depreciation.

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

Everbody, the information I have is from the dealer, there is the good point that the S55 is lighter, so lets see what the numbers from the dealer are.

Anyway, I was wondering, does anybody have any information about the 2002 or 2003 S-Class, any revamped design, etc. It would be interesting.

hcrobinson · February 2001

I am having problems with keyless go. Both original KG cards do not work and nor do replacements. The dealer says the car must go back to MB to be re-programmed.
Anybody else have any such trouble?

paulchiu · February 2001

S600 cannot take you from 0-60mph in "a little over 5 seconds", as one of you stated here.

Only the current E55 and CLK55 can do that for you.

As a matter of fact, the S600 will be slower in the 0-60 test than the S500. Anyone knows this, I am very annoyed that one of you who desires the S600 would spread such lies in this site just to self aggrandize over your personal feelings on the S600.

The S500 will do a 6.1s in the 0-60, the S55 5.7s, and the S600 6.3s. Tested and printed in the Mercedes catalogs, and verified by the auto magazines.

Anyone who buys the S600 and have not read the magazines or catalogs are just wealthy slobs that just wants to be seen in this awesome automobile. You really have no use for such a fine driving machine. You want fine leather, why don't you just buy yourself a Roche Buboes sofa.

ejerod · February 2001

I own the 2001 S500 w AMG sports package, and never seriously considered the S600 because I don't live in Germany and America won't have an autobahn for at least another millenium or so. I don't think however that one should attack someone else because they got their facts wrong or they don't know heads or tails about the specs of a car they own. Let's keep it civil guys, it's a message board, not a college debate team...

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

Ok, about the S600, when I said that it can go from 0-60 in a little over 5 seconds, I meant around that, as in my little watch type of timing, not official timing with the radar guns. Second, the MB dealer, brochure, and website, say that the S600's acceleration is not available. Go to mbusa and check it for yourself. I know this information, I have always liked MB's and finally am financially secure enough to buy a S600. I am not rich and not a slob, I just enjoy cars, I had the resources, and decided to enjoy. I don't want to give the impression I am showing off, but rather another source of info. Like ejerod said, let's keep this civilized.

Also, where did paulchiu get the info about the performance of the S600, I am just curious because even here on Edmunds they do not have it?

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

I was thinking, I have only been in an S-Class with ABC, does the Airmatic suspension have a smoother ride? I was just curious, I will try it out in my friends S430, but I just wanted to get people's opinions on it. Also, has anybody been in or seen a CL600 or CL55 AMG?

Also, my new S600 has the Active Ventilated seats. Is it just me, or is there not a strong current of air flowing through the seat when the cooler is on, even at mac? I don't really feel a whole lot of air the way the dealer described it, can anybody tell me if this is normal, or might I have a problem? Thank you for the input.

dennett · February 2001

I too was interested in what's been said about 0-60 times and looked for the facts, from what I can tell mrman's right, there are no figures on the S600. BUT there are figures on the CL600 and it gets beat by the CL55, with that being the case, I'd imagine that the S55 would take the S600 as well. CL55 0-60 5.7, CL600 0-60 5.9, CL500 6.1, these figures are from MB. I don't know where the figures came from saying that the S500 was faster than the S600 0-60, that makes no sense what so ever!

I went to the SD autoshow yesterday and saw an S55 with the designio eggshell interior, bright yellow! I didn't like it at all, and the seats were filthy from everyone sitting on them. I love those big S class cars!!! You guys are so fortunate to own them, any of them! Just not the eggshell interior!! :-) If somebody here has it, I appologise in advance, what do I know, I'm a lowly C class driver and S class wannabe!! Take it easy!

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

I have an S600 with the shell interior. I personally like it, but you do have a point, it probably will get dirty quick. Speaking of cleaning, does anyone have any special tips on cleaning the leather?

Also, how do other peoples ventilated seats work, mine don't seem to pump a lot of air. In my opinion they seem weak.

dennett · February 2001

I hope I didn't offend you with the negative statements about the shell interior, if it hadn't been so dirty maybe it would have looked better. But you know, everybody has their own personal tastes, so I say more power to you!! What color is your exterior? The one at the show was desert silver, and I would say the interior went well with the exterior color. Enjoy your awesome car!!

mrman_3k2 · February 2001

You didn't offend me. I know everyone has different tastes. For example, I don't really like black cars with a black interior. I don't want to offend anyone, but that is my tastes.

Also, the color for the Designo Silver with the Shell interior, looks almost like a combination of Desert Silver and Brilliant Silver. If you take a look at the brochure, you can see it.

Have a nice weekend everyone!

rexconde1 · February 2001

A quick blip before I go back to studying...

FYI on the speeds, From MB:

S600

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.3 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

S55

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.0 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

S500

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.5 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

CLK55 - Coupe

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/5.4 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

http://www.exconde.com/clk55.htm

(a little piece of heaven)

CLK55 Cab.

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.2 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

CL600

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.3 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

CL55

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.0 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

CL500

acceleration 0-100 km/h -/6.5 s (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

top speed -/250 km/h (manual transmission/automatic transmission)

http://www.exconde.com/cl500.htm

--------------------

Keep in mind that Manufacturers usually are conserviative when it comes to times. This is espically true in my experience in MB and BMW, quite possibly Porsche too.

Robert

rexconde1 · February 2001

The Ventilated seats: I couldnt feel them that much either in our CL500. Its not just you.

I hope you are enjoying the S600. One could only imagine.

Robert

rexconde1 · February 2001

Anyone have their CFA designation? Currently studying and have a couple questions.

Robert
rexconde@exconde.com

benznut · February 2001

From what i have researched (and i have researched a lot) the S/CL 500 are listed for 6,1 seconds 0-60, the 600 are listed at 5.9; and the 55s are at 5,7. These should be conservative figures, in Mercedes tradition. Most of the tests in the magazines, the S/CL 500 have been tested about 0.1 or 0.2 seconds slower than Mercedes claims. Surprisingly enough, though a CL 500 was tested a 0-60 of 5,8 seconds by motor trend in a twenty something comparison test, smoking everything else, including a Lexus LS 400.

The S/CL 55 should be qicker than the noise heavy 600s. What the 600 will be superior at will be supreme luxury and comfort, while the 55s are said to "take away some of that road insulation" the other models offer. I hope the latter means that it is more of a handling machine, and not that it has more road noise and harshness, because i have passed an excellent S500 with designo and sport package and every available option(for 99,000 dollars) and I am waiting for a black on black S 55 - i love the black on black combination. Reason? I saw one on the lane next to mine and it blew me away. I swear I was so struck that i followed the guy for a mile or so just to see the behavior in the poorly patched asphalt. You couldtell the Merc had ABC because the up and down motions of the tail were very well composed and not overdone, like in normal S classes. I wanted to drive beside it with windows down to hear the engine sound, but thought that would scare the poor guy, and I left him alone.

I thought the airmatic suspension was used in conjunction with the ABC. Is that not true. I have ridden in cars equipped with both and there is no difference (S class and CL). Or it is not noticable!

Sorry, I wrote too long, but i am so into this topic. So much for my lunch break today

benznut · February 2001

Can you get crome AMG wheels from the Factory

cpounds · February 2001

I will be taking in a "new" car within a few months. I have long admired the S-class, but being a certified car nut, I am having serious problems nailing down which one to get. Among those under consideration:
* 1994/1995 S500 Coupe (maybe Sedan)
* 1994/1995 850Csi
* 1998/1999 M3 Convertible
* 2000/2001 Audi S4

My target price range is around $35 - 36k.

As a proud owner of two sports cars (1988 Corvette Convertible; 1994 300ZX Stage V+ Twin Turbo), I think that a more luxurious ride is now on tap.

I diligently searched the Net looking for more information on the S-Class, and found some data. However, sites with forum-type activity such as Edmund's was basically non-existant (in English, anyway). So, can you please give me feedback on the S-Class and other driving/ownership impressions about the others on my list? Are the 1994/1995 models quite pleasant? Is there anything to look out for on these years? What price ranges can I realistically expect?

Thanks in advance for your help.

fuzzo · February 2001

I was thinking of buying a used S-class. I am thinking of the 95-97 320 or 420 (correct my numbers if I;m wrong)

I drive an acura now so I'm not familiar with what to look for in MB's

can someone tell me what I should look out for when buying and what problems I can expect when I buy it. Or even what maintanence needs to be done to it (such as timing belt etc)

Please let me know if you know of anyone selling a white or silver one.

Thanks in advance

pat · February 2001

According to your Terms of Use, you can't use Town Hall to buy or sell a vehicle, but you might like to check out Edmunds.com's Marketplace.

Someone here can surely address your other questions, though.

Good luck.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

nszabo · February 2001

Is their any owners of sl's,New sl's I had a question too, where can I purchase AMG wheels?

drew_ · February 2001

Try your MB dealership, or Tirerack.com (they're much cheaper than the dealerships).

drew_ · February 2001

Since 4-5 pm seems to be too early for the live MB chat for many West coasters, how would 6-7pm Pacific on Tuesdays work out for all of you? Please let me know.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

drew_ · February 2001

Don't forget, 5-6pm Pacific tonight! Hope to see some of you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/cartalk022001.html?id=hphall2.cartalk2

Mercedes-Benz S-Class

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